Stop claiming that light attack weaving is an "exploit"

Jeremy

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522

Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):

No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.

Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.

ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.

In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.

EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @Eremith

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

Adding light/heavy attacks into a rotation is different than animation canceling - which is a cheesy way to speed up attacks by taking advantage of a flaw in the game design.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with players weaving light or heavy attacks into their rotations. So your argument is mixing up two very different things.

dsalter

Jeremy wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522

Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):

No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.

Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.

ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.

In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.

EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @Eremith

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

Adding light/heavy attacks into a rotation is different than animation canceling - which is a cheesy way to speed up attacks by taking advantage of a flaw in the game design.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with players weaving light or heavy attacks into their rotations. So your argument is mixing up two very different things.

thank you, this is what i'v been trying to explain, i need a drink, coming with?

Aurielle

Jeremy wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522

Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):

No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.

Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.

ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.

In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.

EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @Eremith

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

Adding light/heavy attacks into a rotation is different than animation canceling - which is a cheesy way to speed up attacks by taking advantage of a flaw in the game design.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with players weaving light or heavy attacks into their rotations. So your argument is mixing up two very different things.

People DO have problems with players weaving light or heavy attacks into their rotations -- especially when said weaving cancels the animation of the light attack. Someone in this VERY THREAD said that light attack weaving is an exploit. I'm not mixing anything up here.

Aurielle

dsalter wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522

Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):

No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.

Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.

ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.

In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.

EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @Eremith

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

Adding light/heavy attacks into a rotation is different than animation canceling - which is a cheesy way to speed up attacks by taking advantage of a flaw in the game design.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with players weaving light or heavy attacks into their rotations. So your argument is mixing up two very different things.

thank you, this is what i'v been trying to explain, i need a drink, coming with?

FFS, see above.

Aurielle

Here, @dsalter

Aeladiir wrote: »

Light attack weaving is an exploit that was transformed into a """"""""""""""""""""""""feature""""""""""""""""""""""""".

[Edit to remove spam]

jssriot

lol this thread.

What some people are mad about is that combat in ESO allows--allows-- for twitch-like gameplay in some cases. I'm pretty sure it was by design at this point. Like with Skyrim and Fallout 4, they have introduced things you traditionally did not find in rpgs, elements that come from FPS/twitch types of game. And whether you like that or not, it's very, very clear that end-game group content in ESO was designed with this in mind.

The devs probably didn't make it big front page news because they didn't want to alienate players who were coming from other rpgs and mmo and not looking for a twitch game at all. And there is a plenty of content in ESO you can do with a very basic grasp of the combat system. But it was always my understanding that harder end-content was introduced to challenge players who wanted more. No one has to do that content. There is plenty of other content and good gear in the game that does not require you to ever set foot in a trial or a vet dungeon. But if you want monster helms from dlc dungeons or TFS from SO, then deal with the fact those were rewards intended for players who wanted more of a challenge, and so yeah, combat will be more demanding.

Whether devs were open about this or not. they designed content for players who could incorporate skills like this into their combat playstyle. How is that an exploit, is you are incorporating something the devs designed the content to call for? Please.

LeagueTroll

Aeladiir wrote: »

Light attack weaving is an exploit that was transformed into a """"""""""""""""""""""""feature""""""""""""""""""""""""".

It is a feature from day 1. Just ppl claimed it is a bug.

Cryptical

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522

Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):

No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.

Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.

ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.

In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.

EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @Eremith

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

There’s a subtle hair-width difference.

Weaving is not an exploit. Of note, weaving is only the pattern of attacks and has nothing to do with timing. For example, waiting a full second after a skill finishes to do a light attack and then another full second to do another skill meets the definition of weaving: a skill, a light attack, a skill, a light attack.

The exploit is the truncation of animations, regardless of method used.

One factor useful for balancing effects is how much time they take. Obviously an effect that does a small amount of damage should take less time to complete than an effect that does a large amount of damage, just like in real life a jab punch does a small amount of injury and takes little time as compared to a roundhouse punch which takes more time and does more damage.

Anything that cuts off some of the time duration of a skill is negating some of the balance factor attached to that skill. Bar swap, block, plain attacks all used to cancel out some of that balancing duration. Slowly but surely over the past year, Zeni has been enforcing the boundaries of that duration factor so that the skills cannot be manipulated into an imbalance situation where build X using rotation Y is always the best.

Hurtfan

If animation cancelling is intended, then why bother putting animations in on any abilities? The whole flailing of the arms when casting crystal frag, I could live without that, and do cancel it every time I get a chance.

Aurielle

Cryptical wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522

Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):

No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.

Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.

ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.

In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.

EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @Eremith

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

There’s a subtle hair-width difference.

Weaving is not an exploit. Of note, weaving is only the pattern of attacks and has nothing to do with timing. For example, waiting a full second after a skill finishes to do a light attack and then another full second to do another skill meets the definition of weaving: a skill, a light attack, a skill, a light attack.

The exploit is the truncation of animations, regardless of method used.

And yet, if you read the tip in the posted image, ZOS recommends firing off a skill "immediately" after firing off a light attack (which will have the effect of truncating the light attack animation), so... how's it an exploit if ZOS is actively encouraging players to do it? They're not saying "fire off a skill one second after a light attack."

huschdeguddzje

I'd like zos to properly implement light and heavy attack weaving, so the animations look fluid and not like the clunky mess they are.
Other than that I enjoy weaving.

LordSemaj

If they ever felt like changing how it works, all they would need to do is add light and heavy attacks to the global cooldown. Players would only light attack to generate ultimate and only heavy attack to recover resources. It would be a rotation change and little more.

Personally I like the way games like City of Heroes or Champions did basic attacks. Spamming the basic is what replenished your resource bar which you spent on skill casts. The lack of fluid animations simply comes from them wanting too much happening in a short period of time.

In any case, as long as they remain off the cooldown, players will weave them.

The_Brosteen

dsalter wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

if you dared to read most of them its not the light attacking "weaving" you are thinking of. its spazzing attacks to clip off animations using things like weapon swap and block tapping... aka animation cancelling, you know, the ACTUAL bug?

Oh, really? Read the OFFICIAL ZOS ADVICE in the image posted above: "For maximum damage, activate abilities immediately after using a Light Attack." If you do as the ZOS devs recommend and activate a skill immediately after a light attack, you will cancel the light attack animation. IT'S NOT A BUG. Animation cancelling has existed in MMORPGs for years, and years, and years.

And yes, people are complaining about light attack weaving in other threads. It's not just about weapon swap cancels, or block cancels. There are people who claim you should not be able to fire off a light attack and a skill at almost the exact same time, and these people seem not to understand that that's PRECISELY how passive auto-attacking works with skills in other MMOs.

Oh, got it..

light attack weaving is where you throw in light attacks between every ability.
animation cancelling is where you use weapon swapping/block to cut abilities animations shorter to speed them up. aka animation cancelling.
OP is gunna make himself look dumb if he doesnt know the difference.
weaving is mostly supported animation wise tho my NB healer spamming siphon and light attacks is kind of jerky.

It doesnt speed up how fast they hit. Even if you bar swap cancel the global cool down will still apply. Certain animations take longer to complete than the global cool down like arrow barrage.
Anyine who complains about animation canceling has a serious l2p issue.

Cryptical

Aurielle wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522

Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):

No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.

Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.

ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.

In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.

EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @Eremith

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

There’s a subtle hair-width difference.

Weaving is not an exploit. Of note, weaving is only the pattern of attacks and has nothing to do with timing. For example, waiting a full second after a skill finishes to do a light attack and then another full second to do another skill meets the definition of weaving: a skill, a light attack, a skill, a light attack.

The exploit is the truncation of animations, regardless of method used.

And yet, if you read the tip in the posted image, ZOS recommends firing off a skill "immediately" after firing off a light attack (which will have the effect of truncating the light attack animation), so... how's it an exploit if ZOS is actively encouraging players to do it? They're not saying "fire off a skill one second after a light attack."

Immediately, without other intervening actions. So do the skill and then the light attack without doing something else such as bar swap or block or potion.

If you are going to descend into the weeds of semantics and claim it must mean less than a nanosecond later, let me save you the effort by pointing out that usage of the word doesn’t include such an extreme intent. “Let me know immediately when she arrives” is taken to mean “when she arrives, you come to me without doing other things”. Also “she is sitting immediately behind me” is taken to mean “she is sitting in a chair at a comfortable distance behind me without anything between us”. In those examples, the watcher is not expected to run at full speed to bring word of the arrival, and there is no way that she is sitting behind me without any space at all. If you are going to try to use the word ‘immediately’ to claim that a skill animation should be truncated by an immediate light attack, you will find that you are reading an unsupported extreme interpretation into the word. So, you likely shouldn’t go there.

Aurielle

Cryptical wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522

Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):

No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.

Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.

ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.

In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.

EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @Eremith

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

There’s a subtle hair-width difference.

Weaving is not an exploit. Of note, weaving is only the pattern of attacks and has nothing to do with timing. For example, waiting a full second after a skill finishes to do a light attack and then another full second to do another skill meets the definition of weaving: a skill, a light attack, a skill, a light attack.

The exploit is the truncation of animations, regardless of method used.

And yet, if you read the tip in the posted image, ZOS recommends firing off a skill "immediately" after firing off a light attack (which will have the effect of truncating the light attack animation), so... how's it an exploit if ZOS is actively encouraging players to do it? They're not saying "fire off a skill one second after a light attack."

Immediately, without other intervening actions. So do the skill and then the light attack without doing something else such as bar swap or block or potion.

If you are going to descend into the weeds of semantics and claim it must mean less than a nanosecond later, let me save you the effort by pointing out that usage of the word doesn’t include such an extreme intent. “Let me know immediately when she arrives” is taken to mean “when she arrives, you come to me without doing other things”. Also “she is sitting immediately behind me” is taken to mean “she is sitting in a chair at a comfortable distance behind me without anything between us”. In those examples, the watcher is not expected to run at full speed to bring word of the arrival, and there is no way that she is sitting behind me without any space at all. If you are going to try to use the word ‘immediately’ to claim that a skill animation should be truncated by an immediate light attack, you will find that you are reading an unsupported extreme interpretation into the word. So, you likely shouldn’t go there.

Oh, please. If a game tells me to do something "immediately," I'm going to do it as fast as humanly possible. I'm not going to wait a FULL SECOND before I try to do it. Do you have any idea how slow combat in this game would be if our rotations were LA (one second) skill (one second) LA (one second) skill (one second). Try it out. It's unbearable, if you know how to weave properly.

cbaudersub17_ESO

Demycilian wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

if you dared to read most of them its not the light attacking "weaving" you are thinking of. its spazzing attacks to clip off animations using things like weapon swap and block tapping... aka animation cancelling, you know, the ACTUAL bug?

Oh, really? Read the OFFICIAL ZOS ADVICE in the image posted above: "For maximum damage, activate abilities immediately after using a Light Attack." If you do as the ZOS devs recommend and activate a skill immediately after a light attack, you will cancel the light attack animation. IT'S NOT A BUG. Animation cancelling has existed in MMORPGs for years, and years, and years.

And yes, people are complaining about light attack weaving in other threads. It's not just about weapon swap cancels, or block cancels. There are people who claim you should not be able to fire off a light attack and a skill at almost the exact same time, and these people seem not to understand that that's PRECISELY how passive auto-attacking works with skills in other MMOs.

Oh, got it..

light attack weaving is where you throw in light attacks between every ability.
animation cancelling is where you use weapon swapping/block to cut abilities animations shorter to speed them up. aka animation cancelling.
OP is gunna make himself look dumb if he doesnt know the difference.
weaving is mostly supported animation wise tho my NB healer spamming siphon and light attacks is kind of jerky.

LOL, I do know the difference. You ignored what I said (again). There are in fact people who claim that weaving -- especially when it involves cancelling the animation of the light attack -- is unintended.

the image explains weaving... not animation cancelling...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=ThZtwhYkKSs

Here you go, the lead combat dev explaining that animation cancelling is an integral part of the game.

Not to hate, but Wrobel is virtually the "its not a bug, its a feature" meme.

And yet here we are pretending that ESO combat hasn't evolved to what it is today over time. Also, that video came out about a year after the genie was let out of the bottle in the forums. What he says and how he says it is pretty telling too.

Mureel

Hurtfan wrote: »

If animation cancelling is intended, then why bother putting animations in on any abilities? The whole flailing of the arms when casting crystal frag, I could live without that, and do cancel it every time I get a chance.

You should only use frags on proc anyway, when it's an instant. Hardcasting is too much time sink.

Cryptical

Koensol wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

if you dared to read most of them its not the light attacking "weaving" you are thinking of. its spazzing attacks to clip off animations using things like weapon swap and block tapping... aka animation cancelling, you know, the ACTUAL bug?

Oh, really? Read the OFFICIAL ZOS ADVICE in the image posted above: "For maximum damage, activate abilities immediately after using a Light Attack." If you do as the ZOS devs recommend and activate a skill immediately after a light attack, you will cancel the light attack animation. IT'S NOT A BUG. Animation cancelling has existed in MMORPGs for years, and years, and years.

And yes, people are complaining about light attack weaving in other threads. It's not just about weapon swap cancels, or block cancels. There are people who claim you should not be able to fire off a light attack and a skill at almost the exact same time, and these people seem not to understand that that's PRECISELY how passive auto-attacking works with skills in other MMOs.

Oh, got it..

light attack weaving is where you throw in light attacks between every ability.
animation cancelling is where you use weapon swapping/block to cut abilities animations shorter to speed them up. aka animation cancelling.
OP is gunna make himself look dumb if he doesnt know the difference.
weaving is mostly supported animation wise tho my NB healer spamming siphon and light attacks is kind of jerky.

@Dsalter The only one here who is looking dumb is you, with the repeated nonsense in every AC thread. You don't even know what a bug actually is, and if you still believe you can speed up skills so that you can fit in more than one in a GCD, you really haven't been paying attention to these forums.

You aren’t keeping it straight. You are mixing up the global cool down and animation length, they aren’t the same thing. And you are screwing up that it’s not about skill / skill / skill, it’s about skill / light attack / skill.

It’s about taking a skill with an animation that is longer than the global cool down, truncating off the end of that animation by hitting a light attack, effectively squeezing two damages into the timespan of the skill animation.

If a skill has an animation of 1.2 seconds, and you can cancel it at the global cool down point by firing off a light attack, then you have managed to squeeze both the skill damage and the light attack damage into the 1.2 second timespan of the skill animation... it’s called animation **cancelling**.

cbaudersub17_ESO

Cryptical wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

if you dared to read most of them its not the light attacking "weaving" you are thinking of. its spazzing attacks to clip off animations using things like weapon swap and block tapping... aka animation cancelling, you know, the ACTUAL bug?

Oh, really? Read the OFFICIAL ZOS ADVICE in the image posted above: "For maximum damage, activate abilities immediately after using a Light Attack." If you do as the ZOS devs recommend and activate a skill immediately after a light attack, you will cancel the light attack animation. IT'S NOT A BUG. Animation cancelling has existed in MMORPGs for years, and years, and years.

And yes, people are complaining about light attack weaving in other threads. It's not just about weapon swap cancels, or block cancels. There are people who claim you should not be able to fire off a light attack and a skill at almost the exact same time, and these people seem not to understand that that's PRECISELY how passive auto-attacking works with skills in other MMOs.

Oh, got it..

light attack weaving is where you throw in light attacks between every ability.
animation cancelling is where you use weapon swapping/block to cut abilities animations shorter to speed them up. aka animation cancelling.
OP is gunna make himself look dumb if he doesnt know the difference.
weaving is mostly supported animation wise tho my NB healer spamming siphon and light attacks is kind of jerky.

@Dsalter The only one here who is looking dumb is you, with the repeated nonsense in every AC thread. You don't even know what a bug actually is, and if you still believe you can speed up skills so that you can fit in more than one in a GCD, you really haven't been paying attention to these forums.

You aren’t keeping it straight. You are mixing up the global cool down and animation length, they aren’t the same thing. And you are screwing up that it’s not about skill / skill / skill, it’s about skill / light attack / skill.

It’s about taking a skill with an animation that is longer than the global cool down, truncating off the end of that animation by hitting a light attack, effectively squeezing two damages into the timespan of the skill animation.

If a skill has an animation of 1.2 seconds, and you can cancel it at the global cool down point by firing off a light attack, then you have managed to squeeze both the skill damage and the light attack damage into the 1.2 second timespan of the skill animation... it’s called animation **cancelling**.

To be fair, terming it 'animation clipping' made a good run back in the day.

SirMewser

ManDraKE wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

And you just made another. Let it go, the people complaining about animation canceling are the usual ignorants. ZoS have been ignoring them for years, that's not going to change.

Let them be, soon or later they will learn how to play and understand why is not an exploit and why is crucial to the ESO combat system.

Wow, I bet he didn't realize he made another!
So what, you decide to ignore the point?

Aurielle wrote: »

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game.

Believing it was cognitive dissonance or not, your own statement is (but not limited to) being counterproductive to the intention of your post ManDraKE. (Inadvertently.)

Informing the ignorant is just another method of having those players learn.
If the OP has at least brought awareness to one player, I do not see the harm in his discussion.

At least he is constructive and provided some nonrepudiation, reinforcing that this is an underlying issue that has valid support as part of the game mechanically.

Jhalin

Even with in your face approval from the devs there's still players trying to say a purposely designed feature is a "bug". Light attack weaving IS animation canceling. They can whine and cry their little ignorant hearts out, but it's no different than canceling animations with block or bar swap or dodge roll. All are equally legitimate means of streamlining combat. It doesn't circumvent the GCD, there's only skilled players using a feature to be allowed to use their abilities on that GCD, and players who aren't skilled enough to do so.

[Edit to remove inappropriate content]

VaranisArano

Jhalin wrote: »

Even with in your face approval from the devs there's still players trying to say a purposely designed feature is a "bug". Light attack weaving IS animation canceling. They can whine and cry their little ignorant hearts out, but it's no different than canceling animations with block or bar swap or dodge roll. All are equally legitimate means of streamlining combat. It doesn't circumvent the GCD, there's only skilled players using a feature to be allowed to use their abilities on that GCD, and players who aren't skilled enough to do so.

[Edit to remove inappropriate content]

I sort of see what you are saying, but I also see the counterargument.

Light attack weaving has now been outright included in the game's leveling tips and is now "taught" by the game.

Is block canceling taught by the game?
Is bar swap cancelling taught by the game?
If they aren't, do they get the same "seal of approval" that light attack weaving got? (Or so goes the counterargument.)

I wish they were taught by the game (if I'm wrong and they are, please let me know.) One of my gripes is that things that are essential to good DPS aren't taught by the game. That ZOS is now finally explaining how to do light attack weaving is a great step in the right direction and I'm delighted to see it.

Koensol

Cryptical wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

if you dared to read most of them its not the light attacking "weaving" you are thinking of. its spazzing attacks to clip off animations using things like weapon swap and block tapping... aka animation cancelling, you know, the ACTUAL bug?

Oh, really? Read the OFFICIAL ZOS ADVICE in the image posted above: "For maximum damage, activate abilities immediately after using a Light Attack." If you do as the ZOS devs recommend and activate a skill immediately after a light attack, you will cancel the light attack animation. IT'S NOT A BUG. Animation cancelling has existed in MMORPGs for years, and years, and years.

And yes, people are complaining about light attack weaving in other threads. It's not just about weapon swap cancels, or block cancels. There are people who claim you should not be able to fire off a light attack and a skill at almost the exact same time, and these people seem not to understand that that's PRECISELY how passive auto-attacking works with skills in other MMOs.

Oh, got it..

light attack weaving is where you throw in light attacks between every ability.
animation cancelling is where you use weapon swapping/block to cut abilities animations shorter to speed them up. aka animation cancelling.
OP is gunna make himself look dumb if he doesnt know the difference.
weaving is mostly supported animation wise tho my NB healer spamming siphon and light attacks is kind of jerky.

@Dsalter The only one here who is looking dumb is you, with the repeated nonsense in every AC thread. You don't even know what a bug actually is, and if you still believe you can speed up skills so that you can fit in more than one in a GCD, you really haven't been paying attention to these forums.

You aren’t keeping it straight. You are mixing up the global cool down and animation length, they aren’t the same thing. And you are screwing up that it’s not about skill / skill / skill, it’s about skill / light attack / skill.

You are assuming I have no idea about animation cancelling. You are wrong. I'm doing it all the time and know exactly how it works. The skill/la/skill is actually the cancelling of the light attack animation. Not the skill animation. That remains exactly the same. In this game, the only thing that cancels a skills animation is block, dodge and barswap. And the only reason to use those is to play defensively. And 'defense' is also the only result. I.e. dodgeroll cancel vigor to heal and also evade an attack.

The barswap cancel after a skill is only so you don't have to wait for the bar swap animation after you use the skill, so that you can cast the next skill EXACTLY after 1 second (GCD) instead of after like 1.2 seconds (GCD + barswap animation). It does in NO way speed up the animation, make you receive the heal faster or hit the target earlier. That is all misinformation that this forum reeks of. Hence why blockcancelling is pointless if you want to increase your dps. It achieves nothing in that regard.

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s about taking a skill with an animation that is longer than the global cool down, truncating off the end of that animation by hitting a light attack, effectively squeezing two damages into the timespan of the skill animation.

This is false. You cant 'truncate' off the end of a skill animation with a light attack. It is the other way around. The skill cancels the light attack animation. Which in turn changes nothing about the actual skill animation. I already explained this above.

Cryptical wrote: »

If a skill has an animation of 1.2 seconds, and you can cancel it at the global cool down point by firing off a light attack, then you have managed to squeeze both the skill damage and the light attack damage into the 1.2 second timespan of the skill animation... it’s called animation **cancelling**.

This doesn't exist. Again, you are misinformed. The global cooldown is 1 second. The game dictates that that in the 1 second GCD, there can be 1 light attack and 1 skill. But the light attack isn't cancelling the skill, making it fire faster than usual. Nor does it when the skill animation is cancelled by for example block. A block cancelled endless hail will hit at the same moment as a regular endless hail.

Animation cancelling isn't sorcery people. Stop making it out to be more than it is.

Mazbt

It's not worth it to waste time or get salty with people who won't change their mind on this. Better to ignore and get back to the game.

Jhalin

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Even with in your face approval from the devs there's still players trying to say a purposely designed feature is a "bug". Light attack weaving IS animation canceling. They can whine and cry their little ignorant hearts out, but it's no different than canceling animations with block or bar swap or dodge roll. All are equally legitimate means of streamlining combat. It doesn't circumvent the GCD, there's only skilled players using a feature to be allowed to use their abilities on that GCD, and players who aren't skilled enough to do so.

[Edit to remove inappropriate content]

I sort of see what you are saying, but I also see the counterargument.

Light attack weaving has now been outright included in the game's leveling tips and is now "taught" by the game.

Is block canceling taught by the game?
Is bar swap cancelling taught by the game?
If they aren't, do they get the same "seal of approval" that light attack weaving got? (Or so goes the counterargument.)

I wish they were taught by the game (if I'm wrong and they are, please let me know.) One of my gripes is that things that are essential to good DPS aren't taught by the game. That ZOS is now finally explaining how to do light attack weaving is a great step in the right direction and I'm delighted to see it.

The game doesn't teach a lot of things, but that doesn't make those things exploits. It doesn't teach players that ground dots can be recast before they time out, but we can do it and it's necessary for effective combat. It doesn't tell players that we can apply single target DoTs to multiple enemies, but we can and it's necessary for effective combat. It doesn't tell us that blocking, dodge rolling, and weapon swapping are available at all times, but they are and must be for effective combat.

VaranisArano

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Even with in your face approval from the devs there's still players trying to say a purposely designed feature is a "bug". Light attack weaving IS animation canceling. They can whine and cry their little ignorant hearts out, but it's no different than canceling animations with block or bar swap or dodge roll. All are equally legitimate means of streamlining combat. It doesn't circumvent the GCD, there's only skilled players using a feature to be allowed to use their abilities on that GCD, and players who aren't skilled enough to do so.

[Edit to remove inappropriate content]

I sort of see what you are saying, but I also see the counterargument.

Light attack weaving has now been outright included in the game's leveling tips and is now "taught" by the game.

Is block canceling taught by the game?
Is bar swap cancelling taught by the game?
If they aren't, do they get the same "seal of approval" that light attack weaving got? (Or so goes the counterargument.)

I wish they were taught by the game (if I'm wrong and they are, please let me know.) One of my gripes is that things that are essential to good DPS aren't taught by the game. That ZOS is now finally explaining how to do light attack weaving is a great step in the right direction and I'm delighted to see it.

The game doesn't teach a lot of things, but that doesn't make those things exploits. It doesn't teach players that ground dots can be recast before they time out, but we can do it and it's necessary for effective combat. It doesn't tell players that we can apply single target DoTs to multiple enemies, but we can and it's necessary for effective combat. It doesn't tell us that blocking, dodge rolling, and weapon swapping are available at all times, but they are and must be for effective combat.

My point was more that for someone who thinks that light attack canceling, bar swap canceling, and block canceling were all exploits, the addition of the tip about light attack canceling means only that light attack canceling is no longer an exploit. it says nothing about bar swap or block canceling, therefore, they can still argue (rightly or wrongly, I make no judgment) that bar swap and block canceling are exploits and not intended by the developers.

That's not my argument, merely pointing out that I understand how the counterargument works.

DoctorESO

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522

Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):

No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.

Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.

ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.

In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.

EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @Eremith

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

So they DID add this to the skills advisor! Why are people telling me otherwise?

DoctorESO

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

So if light attack weaving is an exploit, then will ZOS be banned?

VaranisArano

DoctorESO wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.

I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522

Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):

No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.

Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.

ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.

In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.

EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @Eremith

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

So they DID add this to the skills advisor! Why are people telling me otherwise?

I don't know why people are telling you that except for its in the Level Up Adviser, from the first page of this thread.

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

cbaudersub17_ESO

.

DoctorESO wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

It's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:

So if light attack weaving is an exploit, then will ZOS be banned?

Is there a parallel with getting too much XP for killing something?