Is 30K dps enough for endgame trial raids?

Sweetpea704

Yes

30k is plenty, unless you are the person the does 30k but always seems to be dead in the trial. Glass cannon doesn't
cut it. You need around 20k health too. 19k is probably fine. 15k....no. Go get your Undaunted up. Throw on a piece of heavy armor and take the right passives. I think Alcast's builds are a good place to start, if you aren't sure how to get where you need to be. I like his builds because they aren't all sets that have to be farmed. There are a lot of crafted set ups that are easy to get.

I literally ran VDSA with his Stam DK Venom build after only having the toon for 2 weeks.

Pea

Asardes

Yes

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

30k is plenty, unless you are the person the does 30k but always seems to be dead in the trial. Glass cannon doesn't
cut it. You need around 20k health too. 19k is probably fine. 15k....no. Go get your Undaunted up. Throw on a piece of heavy armor and take the right passives. I think Alcast's builds are a good place to start, if you aren't sure how to get where you need to be. I like his builds because they aren't all sets that have to be farmed. There are a lot of crafted set ups that are easy to get.

I literally ran VDSA with his Stam DK Venom build after only having the toon for 2 weeks.

Pea

You do indeed get almost 20K health in trials even without putting points in it because Ebon adds ~1.3K and Warhorn ~1.5K. But many mechanics there do way more damage than that, if not blocked, dodged, moved from or simply not triggered by correct positioning. Otherwise they will even kill the tank. I usually wear 5/1/1 or 1/5/1 on my characters for maximum Undaunted Mettle bonuses because I value that extra resistance, health and resources, and the DPS loss due to a bit less weapon critical is inconsequential.

Sweetpea704

Yes

me_ming wrote: »

has eso really become this linear? have 30k dps and you're good. kinda sad. but then again, that's why I really don't pay much attention on this game already.

I would say that a very small minority of players are pulling this kind of DPS. This is something I achieved after nearly 3 years of play and with max CP. There is an awful lot that you can do without having to have this kind of DPS. But, on the other hand, if you are not trying to improve or otherwise have a goal for your characters, you'll just end up quitting the game. Completing end game, vet trials, is a worthy goal.

Pea

Rex-Umbra

Yes

I am mostly a PvP player but can only reach 30k on my stamplar not even my Msorc can hit 30k

Bam_Bam

My mate recently invited me to the trials guild he co-runs.

I came straight from PvP on one of my stamblades, in all impen gear. We did vHRC and I was utter 5hi7. I don't even want to know my DPS. 30, 25, 20, 15, 10k? No idea. It was rubbish. But the thing was, I tried. I died a LOT- there's no cloaking, getting safe then re-engaging.

Like I say, Itried. Some pugs that had joined us where so elitist "You're a waste of a body!!!" was probably the mildest hate whisper I got. But my buddies were very suppportive and have explained the importance of rotations, positioning and staying alive. I'm getting lots valuable advice and suggestions. And the guild has been doing farming runs to get myself and other new guildies the correct gear.

But best of all, their is NO room for elitism in the guild. My mate, the guild leader is 55, and the co-leader is 22. The eldest is 60-something. Some of our DPS can hit 55+k DPS. They are teaching me how and being really kind - I think they realise that insulting, belittling and hating someone is completely ineffective and makes a bad situation worse.

But encouragement, advice and kindness can really help bring the best out of people.

PS: my own rotation (hehe - its rubbish and getting changed) and a change of mundus and enchants, got me 21k on the target dummy So things are looking up a little bit!

Elitism just turns people off. Learn to encourage and offer kindness - it could just end up saving your elitist a55 in the long run

jaye63

Depends

25k is minimum IMHO. There will be issues but it's enough.

Mureel

klowdy1 wrote: »

How about 22k with less than 50% boss uptime because boss is tanking in fire, and heals can't keep up, so you're also sustaining yourself?

DoctorESO wrote: »

Nighn_9 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

If you don’t cheese a NB 45k the only people left running won’t even look at you.

But 20k+ is good enough.

This one regrets to inform you that 20k is not good enough for VAA HM, VHRC HM, VMOL, VHOF, VAS+1, and VAS+2.

There are normal versions of every trial and 20k dps is enough for those. Goodluck new raiders! (get the hint?)

I wouldn't call normal trials "endgame trial raids," which is what the OP is asking about.

Normal trials are endgame, they just aren't the most difficult endgame. It's called progression, and most people don't start at the hardest part of the game. He didn't say vet trials.

Actually most of us did. Normal trials are recent and to be honest: I think the should be removed. They teach no disipline or situational awareness and it is worse having to have someone who wants to raid vet (thankfully it is rare!) who has to unlearn 'normals' behaviour - and my favourite is how we get to hear about it in Discord 'that's not how wee do it in normals we just.....' Well here, you'll die.

Normal trials you can ignore mechanics and basically do 'whatever' and not die/wipe, are not progression.

Progression is learning a trial boss by boss until you have it down, and can successfully clear with markedly better times/less deaths/repeated mistakes each time AS WELL AS devising consistently better tactics for the raid as a whole. This is what progression means with regard to trials.

There are people who go always to normal trials, people who go to normal for some gear, and vet raiders. Most people who pug normals will never cross over into vet raiding.

I too would not call trials 'endgame' but they are like lvl 50+ or however many CP the lead lets you have, so I guess they kinda could be called that - but the context I think it not fitting.

LeagueTroll

Depends

Well, i think 30k ranged mag is good nuf, 30k stam is not good nuf.

Ch4mpTW

Yes

Yes. 30k is more than enough.

Sure, it’s always good to strive for improvement. But if you’re constantly hitting 30k DPS parses, then all should be well (assuming you aren’t always needing to be resurrected, and properly follow mechanics). Always remember that a “good” damage-dealer, is a damage-dealer that carries their own weight in all aspects and regards.

Princess_Ciri

No

Tinus_92 wrote: »

When vmol came out 30k was something only top-level players could get. Vmol hasn't become more difficult since its release, and the dps-increases made the trial more accessible to other players as well.

30k is still more as viable to complete the trial with, as long mechanics are being done right and you aren't aiming at the highest scores. My old guilds' vhof runs also didn't had +30k dps at the time due to mechanics, so even there 30k, if you can do it, is more then enough. 30K also will be more then enough to clear craglorn HMs with, as long people understand the mechanics and work as a team properly, which is much more important as the raw numbers. 30k consistently also is enough to skip the vmol (non-HM) lunar cycle.

Craglorn non hm's, 20k is enough when following mechanics. For normals I would go as far that +10k is even fine, as there are usually enough players around who perform a lot more dps anyways.

In my original post I said, 30k dps is super low for serious scores. Which is true. You can clear vMoL with low dps but you're going to end up with a weak score. Which is fine for some people, but if you want a decent score, 30k boss dps on any vMoL fight is just awful nowadays. You won't get a 160k+ score with anyone pulling that little.

Tinus_92

Yes

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Tinus_92 wrote: »

When vmol came out 30k was something only top-level players could get. Vmol hasn't become more difficult since its release, and the dps-increases made the trial more accessible to other players as well.

30k is still more as viable to complete the trial with, as long mechanics are being done right and you aren't aiming at the highest scores. My old guilds' vhof runs also didn't had +30k dps at the time due to mechanics, so even there 30k, if you can do it, is more then enough. 30K also will be more then enough to clear craglorn HMs with, as long people understand the mechanics and work as a team properly, which is much more important as the raw numbers. 30k consistently also is enough to skip the vmol (non-HM) lunar cycle.

Craglorn non hm's, 20k is enough when following mechanics. For normals I would go as far that +10k is even fine, as there are usually enough players around who perform a lot more dps anyways.

In my original post I said, 30k dps is super low for serious scores. Which is true. You can clear vMoL with low dps but you're going to end up with a weak score. Which is fine for some people, but if you want a decent score, 30k boss dps on any vMoL fight is just awful nowadays. You won't get a 160k+ score with anyone pulling that little.

Fully agreed, no discussion on that. However just completing anbd practising vmol however is still considered endgame raiding towards most players, and probably towards the OP as well, even while it's not the highest achieve-able. It's still a minority of players who can pull off such content, and the amount of players who can pull +160k is probably still below <0,1.% of the overall community. Endgame doesn't have to be competetive endgame. With that said, regarding to the original poll, 30k is sufficient for (non-competetive) endgame trials. If mechanics are also performed correctly, obviously, you'll get through vmol and even vhof without too much difficulty doing such numbers consistently.

Massive_Stain

Yes

Yes indeed it is. All but one of my trial guilds requires 35k+ on any DD toon you want to bring in any trial. But I was in a very successful guild that only required 30k with a flame wall for hard mode content.

Raid awareness > target dummy numbers tbh, although there is a sweet spot somewhere in the middle there where you can clear trials with a speed run and no deaths.

Fang_of_Lorkhaj

Depends

30k is fine but with the current shape the game is in every class has the ability to hit 40k+. Just takes time, patience, and lot of practice. Hope this helped. Good luck

ak_pvp

Dummy. Yes.

Bosses. No.

Milvan

No

First of all, it all depends from which trial.

If you can sustain 30k dps in a vAS+2 you are awesome top quality player.

Tho if you hit only 30k dps in The Mage fight vAA hardmode you really should work your dps out.

Concerning Skeleton parses, I think 40k dps with a trial setup shows that you at least know your rotation, but it's the trial bosses parses that will tell if you can play the game or not.

vinnyml

I'm really new to this game. How is this figure measured? Like if you had to explain to your mom what "30k DPS" meant, what would you say? Are they taking all the damage done in a minute and dividing it by 60? Thanks.

JobooAGS

Depends

If 30k is your goal, I would try to get it with either having a self heal in case things go sideways (and helps your healers a bit) and/or do it without being a glass cannon. Dead dps = 0 dps and I would even take someone who parses 25-30k and doesnt die over someone who parses 35-40k and takes naps consistantly when an add looks at them.

Pink_Violinz

Depends

Depends on trial. Craglorns, non HM? Absolutely. DLC trials like HoF and Mol? Probably not.

Dymence

Depends

Really depends. Is that 30k dps on a dummy? If so, you are probably going to pull far far less in an actual raid.

If you can't execute your rotation without mistakes on a dummy that doesn't do anything, then you're going to suffer hard DPS loss on bosses with actual mechanics.

I know of people who can pull 38k on dummy and hit rock bottom 12-15k dps in raids because they can't handle the mechanics.

Milvan

No

vinnyml wrote: »

I'm really new to this game. How is this figure measured? Like if you had to explain to your mom what "30k DPS" meant, what would you say? Are they taking all the damage done in a minute and dividing it by 60? Thanks.

@vinnyml
There are several add-ons in PC that tells your dps, your group as whole, your group individually etc.

I don't really know how console peasants figure that out.

dazee

Yes

If its enough to clear the content, yes. People need to stop being elitists and include people who are capable of clearing instead of insisting on 2 minute run or bust.

Somber97866

Yes

Thanx for calling me a pheasant you *ss hat

dazee

Yes

Somber97866 wrote: »

Thanx for calling me a pheasant you *ss hat

This is what I immediately thought of.

adeptusminor

Alcast wrote: »

Player 1: 25k dps, does not die
Player 2: 35k dps, keeps dieing at least once or twice every run

What player would you take?

The second so I can get higher group deeps % and impress all the ladies

DoctorESO

Yes

adeptusminor wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Player 1: 25k dps, does not die
Player 2: 35k dps, keeps dieing at least once or twice every run

What player would you take?

The second so I can get big deeps % and impress all the ladies

Player A who does 25k DPS over 20 minutes = 30,000,000 DPS total

Player B who does 35k DPS over 18 minutes (due to a death or two and the loss of DPS from the rezzer) = 37,800,000 DPS total

Tinus_92

Yes

DoctorESO wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Player 1: 25k dps, does not die
Player 2: 35k dps, keeps dieing at least once or twice every run

What player would you take?

The second so I can get big deeps % and impress all the ladies

Player A who does 25k DPS over 20 minutes = 30,000,000 DPS total

Player B who does 35k DPS over 18 minutes (due to a death or two and the loss of DPS from the rezzer) = 37,800,000 DPS total

The average trial boss doesn't last longer then 5-6 minutes, especially with these numbers on average, so that already brings the numbers much closer towards each other, making it a minor difference.

Player A who does 25k over 5 minutes = 7,500,000 DPS
Player B who does 35k over 4 minutes = 8,400,000 DPS

That's a difference of only 900,000 DPS, which would make the fight like 10-20% longer in time? While the DPS amounts are huge, the fighttime doesn't. If you're going for score runs, you still want to prefer the player with 25k, as deaths have much more influence on your final score of the trial run then faster fights.

While I agree 25k is a bit low for veteran DLC trials though, I also don't get the 35k requirements as 30k is more then enough to clear any content. Unless you're going for top #1 scores (or anywhere close), which most trial guilds don't pull off anyways, 30k is just fine. Again, considering you know the actual mechanics and perform well during the trial run too.

Aria_GuildDestroyer

Depends

It depends on who else you run with. If everyone else in the group is pulling 40k on the dummy, you could probably clear vMoL and vHoF being dead 90% of the time. But that being said, if it's an issue about guild requirements - it's not really fair for them to carry other players (unless you're paying them, handsomely). So, if everyone in group was pulling 20k, you'd probably complete vAA...but none of the other vet trials. Standard for Crags should be around 30k. Standard for DLCs is 35k. But, your 20k is great for normal trials!!

Glaiceana

Yes

Yes it is And with a properly buffed group you will hit a lot higher than that, as will the other DDs anyway.

Love Wizard

Depends

Where is that 30k done? Keep in mind with raidbuffs you will hit higher, but im sure you can clear trials with a guild and still not bottom dps with it. If you feel like you want to improve further, look up some guides, I personally recommend @Alcast 's guides, gives you a great idea what you can expect, etc.

Somber97866

Yes

My dps is fine. Mid 30s. But if you had requirements for 30k dps for magic and 40k for stam ( because that is the equivalent now with all the magic nerf's ) wouldn't you be able to clear any content ( even hard modes)