Alliance switching to boost AP and take Emp - discuss!

drkfrontiers

PvP in ESO = TOXIC

Its kind of strange as in all other games I play I really enjoy PvP. Just ESO.

Beardimus

@VaranisArano its a fine line as these guys are doing both. Sometimes all swapping to other alliance. Other times aplit in groups standing by not engaging, not bothering to repair walls.jist to let the others walk back in and flip

Joy_Division

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Interested to discuss this.

I'm aware many players like being able to switch alliance mid campaign. I do not agree with it, ive only seen it used for nefarious things and this time I'm furious.

I worked hard this campaign reset to get ahead and get myself Emp for the first time. Took time off work and a big effort to achieve it had to fight the outgoing emp who's a Pro and use all resources i had!

Im Ebonheart Pact and loyal. Friday night I played as Emp with a guy his score was low, unsure of Cyrodiil and i helped him out. Saturday I came on and he had been on all night and had a gd score up the board fair enough I thought, tho map was mainly red as I left after midnight.... But Saturday he had switched to his DC toon with mates to take the Emp keeps flip map and boost AP (ihave full video and image proof)

Luckily I came on in time for last keep battle - HUZZAH!- and had my first 1vX defending Chalman with one EP mate. Killed this player and We wiped them twice, it was close tho. Then I started to get abuse from him and his mates that I was out of order and not honorable (I.e. I was stopping a fellow Pact guy get Emp) surely the outgoing Emp defending last keep is honorable????? And switching sides to boost AP and flip map the opposite? They spammed zone chat (switching back) and Xbox message from abuse to offers of 300k to walk away

Just salty I guess......

Anyway they gave up (shame, as Great fight and they nearly got us twice) and i logged out for the weekend. But yesterday map was blue that group took emp and farmed AP with it. Overnight this Pact guys score has doubled and now has Emp. Making a mockery of the whole system.

It's not taken away my efforts, im not bitter and nor will I feel bad for my personal battle of the Chal-amo. But I want the community view on this.

I have complete evidence of him switching alliances to flip the 6 keeps. Overnight AP farming I wasn't witness to to be clear.

TLDR -
1. is switching alliances to boost AP and flip keeps for your own Emp push legit? I.e. Flip then as DC, change back to EP to flip back.
2. How can we stop this type of thing bar locking alliance per campaign?
3. Should players doing it be reported?

Can we please STOP blaming and stereotyping people who play on multiple factions?

This has nothing to do with Alliance hopping and everything to do with them being a salty **** and the stupid emperor politics that happen because of low populated servers.

Sorry @Joy_Division , I can only speak for what I see, and sadly I only see nefarious things. And when they happen they detrimentally impact PvP, peoples motivations, even peoples morals as they decide its the only way. It undermines the game.

I'm not stereotyping. I'm not saying all those pro switching are exploiters, please don't think that. BUT those that are obviously exploiting in this way are alliance switching.

The rosey side I'm not witness too despite being in since launch.

If you only see nefarious things, then you are selectively blind and choosing only to see those things which confirm your own biases

Beardimus

@Aisle9 what I meant on my abdocating poat was the emp leaving campaign, just before flip so guy in 2nd takes emp. They flip back, next guy that alliance gets emp. Then the first place guy in first alliance abdicates again and so on

Makes it very easy for coordinates groups to give emp to all their guild never actually fighting anyone unless loyalists like my lot rock up

So emp jumps down the scores. If the legacy score remained they would at least have to go get AP to get to first place rather than be handed it as a baton. But I guess they would just find anothe rway to circumvent that

Beardimus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Interested to discuss this.

I'm aware many players like being able to switch alliance mid campaign. I do not agree with it, ive only seen it used for nefarious things and this time I'm furious.

I worked hard this campaign reset to get ahead and get myself Emp for the first time. Took time off work and a big effort to achieve it had to fight the outgoing emp who's a Pro and use all resources i had!

Im Ebonheart Pact and loyal. Friday night I played as Emp with a guy his score was low, unsure of Cyrodiil and i helped him out. Saturday I came on and he had been on all night and had a gd score up the board fair enough I thought, tho map was mainly red as I left after midnight.... But Saturday he had switched to his DC toon with mates to take the Emp keeps flip map and boost AP (ihave full video and image proof)

Luckily I came on in time for last keep battle - HUZZAH!- and had my first 1vX defending Chalman with one EP mate. Killed this player and We wiped them twice, it was close tho. Then I started to get abuse from him and his mates that I was out of order and not honorable (I.e. I was stopping a fellow Pact guy get Emp) surely the outgoing Emp defending last keep is honorable????? And switching sides to boost AP and flip map the opposite? They spammed zone chat (switching back) and Xbox message from abuse to offers of 300k to walk away

Just salty I guess......

Anyway they gave up (shame, as Great fight and they nearly got us twice) and i logged out for the weekend. But yesterday map was blue that group took emp and farmed AP with it. Overnight this Pact guys score has doubled and now has Emp. Making a mockery of the whole system.

It's not taken away my efforts, im not bitter and nor will I feel bad for my personal battle of the Chal-amo. But I want the community view on this.

I have complete evidence of him switching alliances to flip the 6 keeps. Overnight AP farming I wasn't witness to to be clear.

TLDR -
1. is switching alliances to boost AP and flip keeps for your own Emp push legit? I.e. Flip then as DC, change back to EP to flip back.
2. How can we stop this type of thing bar locking alliance per campaign?
3. Should players doing it be reported?

Can we please STOP blaming and stereotyping people who play on multiple factions?

This has nothing to do with Alliance hopping and everything to do with them being a salty **** and the stupid emperor politics that happen because of low populated servers.

Sorry @Joy_Division , I can only speak for what I see, and sadly I only see nefarious things. And when they happen they detrimentally impact PvP, peoples motivations, even peoples morals as they decide its the only way. It undermines the game.

I'm not stereotyping. I'm not saying all those pro switching are exploiters, please don't think that. BUT those that are obviously exploiting in this way are alliance switching.

The rosey side I'm not witness too despite being in since launch.

If you only see nefarious things, then you are selectively blind and choosing only to see those things which confirm your own biases

Whoa, why so hostile? Come on @Joy_Division......

My side running scrolls I see, big impact
AP boosting I see, wrecks leaderboards
Emp keep flipping i see, devalues Emp title

People 'playing with mates' I don't see. And has no Impact on me thus unlikely to notice anyway. Any that DO that I know certainly wouldn't mind waiting 7 days or 30 even to play with anothe group. Fact.

Zero need for a gruff response. Perhaps all the things @Aisle9 has more elequently retorted are going on and its just not obvious or impactful to me would be a better response, which id accept.

I'm not selectivly blind, but the pro's outweigh the cons in terms of actual impact to 3rd parties.

Joy_Division

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Interested to discuss this.

I'm aware many players like being able to switch alliance mid campaign. I do not agree with it, ive only seen it used for nefarious things and this time I'm furious.

I worked hard this campaign reset to get ahead and get myself Emp for the first time. Took time off work and a big effort to achieve it had to fight the outgoing emp who's a Pro and use all resources i had!

Im Ebonheart Pact and loyal. Friday night I played as Emp with a guy his score was low, unsure of Cyrodiil and i helped him out. Saturday I came on and he had been on all night and had a gd score up the board fair enough I thought, tho map was mainly red as I left after midnight.... But Saturday he had switched to his DC toon with mates to take the Emp keeps flip map and boost AP (ihave full video and image proof)

Luckily I came on in time for last keep battle - HUZZAH!- and had my first 1vX defending Chalman with one EP mate. Killed this player and We wiped them twice, it was close tho. Then I started to get abuse from him and his mates that I was out of order and not honorable (I.e. I was stopping a fellow Pact guy get Emp) surely the outgoing Emp defending last keep is honorable????? And switching sides to boost AP and flip map the opposite? They spammed zone chat (switching back) and Xbox message from abuse to offers of 300k to walk away

Just salty I guess......

Anyway they gave up (shame, as Great fight and they nearly got us twice) and i logged out for the weekend. But yesterday map was blue that group took emp and farmed AP with it. Overnight this Pact guys score has doubled and now has Emp. Making a mockery of the whole system.

It's not taken away my efforts, im not bitter and nor will I feel bad for my personal battle of the Chal-amo. But I want the community view on this.

I have complete evidence of him switching alliances to flip the 6 keeps. Overnight AP farming I wasn't witness to to be clear.

TLDR -
1. is switching alliances to boost AP and flip keeps for your own Emp push legit? I.e. Flip then as DC, change back to EP to flip back.
2. How can we stop this type of thing bar locking alliance per campaign?
3. Should players doing it be reported?

Can we please STOP blaming and stereotyping people who play on multiple factions?

This has nothing to do with Alliance hopping and everything to do with them being a salty **** and the stupid emperor politics that happen because of low populated servers.

Sorry @Joy_Division , I can only speak for what I see, and sadly I only see nefarious things. And when they happen they detrimentally impact PvP, peoples motivations, even peoples morals as they decide its the only way. It undermines the game.

I'm not stereotyping. I'm not saying all those pro switching are exploiters, please don't think that. BUT those that are obviously exploiting in this way are alliance switching.

The rosey side I'm not witness too despite being in since launch.

If you only see nefarious things, then you are selectively blind and choosing only to see those things which confirm your own biases

Whoa, why so hostile? Come on @Joy_Division......

My side running scrolls I see, big impact
AP boosting I see, wrecks leaderboards
Emp keep flipping i see, devalues Emp title

People 'playing with mates' I don't see. And has no Impact on me thus unlikely to notice anyway. Any that DO that I know certainly wouldn't mind waiting 7 days or 30 even to play with anothe group. Fact.

Zero need for a gruff response. Perhaps all the things @Aisle9 has more elequently retorted are going on and its just not obvious or impactful to me would be a better response, which id accept.

I'm not selectivly blind, but the pro's outweigh the cons in terms of actual impact to 3rd parties.

That's not hostility.

You are trying to tell me that you have been on in 4 years and never seen one instance where someone moving to another faction was not nefarious. You are saying If I log off a faction-stacking campaign that has emperor, a lead in the AvA score, and is pushing the enemy gates, that I or anyone else is being nefarious. Nope, sorry. Disagree now and will disagree always. I will not take part in that nonsense.

Aisle9

Beardimus wrote: »

@Aisle9 what I meant on my abdocating poat was the emp leaving campaign, just before flip so guy in 2nd takes emp. They flip back, next guy that alliance gets emp. Then the first place guy in first alliance abdicates again and so on

Makes it very easy for coordinates groups to give emp to all their guild never actually fighting anyone unless loyalists like my lot rock up

So emp jumps down the scores. If the legacy score remained they would at least have to go get AP to get to first place rather than be handed it as a baton. But I guess they would just find anothe rway to circumvent that

@Beardimus
Yeah, no, definitely, the emp should always be the one with the highest score, even if that player is offline. Makes no sense to me to have an emp leaderboard then just pick the closest one that fit the requisites from who's online at that moment.

Also, as you pointed out, it's easily exploitable.

That said, the emp bonus should be applied even if the emp is offline.

True, a smal amount of people would be able to keep the title for a considerable amount of time, but the emp title would also have more meaning, IMHO.

Irylia

Faction pride is an excuse to zerg the map.

Play the faction that is struggling as it will provide you with the best opportunities to make ap.

Brumme

This is like when wabbajack works together with blue to crush yellow
i know they have 1 from blue on disc so they cant work together....
not fair at all..

but thats the way it is

VaranisArano

Beardimus wrote: »

@VaranisArano its a fine line as these guys are doing both. Sometimes all swapping to other alliance. Other times aplit in groups standing by not engaging, not bothering to repair walls.jist to let the others walk back in and flip

I'd say that standing by, not repairing, and letting others flip, particularly if they then retake the flags to get their own tick is an example of the sort of offenses ZOS called exploiting. That's pretty similar to what happened at Bleakers during the double AP week for the No CP test.

Its possible to leave a keep unrepaired as part of a tactical manuever. I've done it as part of a smash-and-grab to take a scroll, which didn't have anything to do with trading AP. What you described is pretty obviously trading AP and ZOS has said that's not how you are supposed to play the game.

But if the emp ring is red and I want to speed up the dethrone process, I'm currently allowed to swap to AD and start capturing emp keeps. Then at any point, I can swap back to EP and start taking back keeps. Again, I don't think that's healthy gameplay and that emp swapping is a good way to kill a campaign, but its currently allowed.

Brumme

.

Beardimus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Interested to discuss this.

I'm aware many players like being able to switch alliance mid campaign. I do not agree with it, ive only seen it used for nefarious things and this time I'm furious.

I worked hard this campaign reset to get ahead and get myself Emp for the first time. Took time off work and a big effort to achieve it had to fight the outgoing emp who's a Pro and use all resources i had!

Im Ebonheart Pact and loyal. Friday night I played as Emp with a guy his score was low, unsure of Cyrodiil and i helped him out. Saturday I came on and he had been on all night and had a gd score up the board fair enough I thought, tho map was mainly red as I left after midnight.... But Saturday he had switched to his DC toon with mates to take the Emp keeps flip map and boost AP (ihave full video and image proof)

Luckily I came on in time for last keep battle - HUZZAH!- and had my first 1vX defending Chalman with one EP mate. Killed this player and We wiped them twice, it was close tho. Then I started to get abuse from him and his mates that I was out of order and not honorable (I.e. I was stopping a fellow Pact guy get Emp) surely the outgoing Emp defending last keep is honorable????? And switching sides to boost AP and flip map the opposite? They spammed zone chat (switching back) and Xbox message from abuse to offers of 300k to walk away

Just salty I guess......

Anyway they gave up (shame, as Great fight and they nearly got us twice) and i logged out for the weekend. But yesterday map was blue that group took emp and farmed AP with it. Overnight this Pact guys score has doubled and now has Emp. Making a mockery of the whole system.

It's not taken away my efforts, im not bitter and nor will I feel bad for my personal battle of the Chal-amo. But I want the community view on this.

I have complete evidence of him switching alliances to flip the 6 keeps. Overnight AP farming I wasn't witness to to be clear.

TLDR -
1. is switching alliances to boost AP and flip keeps for your own Emp push legit? I.e. Flip then as DC, change back to EP to flip back.
2. How can we stop this type of thing bar locking alliance per campaign?
3. Should players doing it be reported?

Can we please STOP blaming and stereotyping people who play on multiple factions?

This has nothing to do with Alliance hopping and everything to do with them being a salty **** and the stupid emperor politics that happen because of low populated servers.

Sorry @Joy_Division , I can only speak for what I see, and sadly I only see nefarious things. And when they happen they detrimentally impact PvP, peoples motivations, even peoples morals as they decide its the only way. It undermines the game.

I'm not stereotyping. I'm not saying all those pro switching are exploiters, please don't think that. BUT those that are obviously exploiting in this way are alliance switching.

The rosey side I'm not witness too despite being in since launch.

If you only see nefarious things, then you are selectively blind and choosing only to see those things which confirm your own biases

Whoa, why so hostile? Come on @Joy_Division......

My side running scrolls I see, big impact
AP boosting I see, wrecks leaderboards
Emp keep flipping i see, devalues Emp title

People 'playing with mates' I don't see. And has no Impact on me thus unlikely to notice anyway. Any that DO that I know certainly wouldn't mind waiting 7 days or 30 even to play with anothe group. Fact.

Zero need for a gruff response. Perhaps all the things @Aisle9 has more elequently retorted are going on and its just not obvious or impactful to me would be a better response, which id accept.

I'm not selectivly blind, but the pro's outweigh the cons in terms of actual impact to 3rd parties.

That's not hostility.

You are trying to tell me that you have been on in 4 years and never seen one instance where someone moving to another faction was not nefarious. You are saying If I log off a faction-stacking campaign that has emperor, a lead in the AvA score, and is pushing the enemy gates, that I or anyone else is being nefarious. Nope, sorry. Disagree now and will disagree always. I will not take part in that nonsense.

Honestly maybe things are different in your region, Xbox EU is never pop locked (well when I play anyway which does sometimes cover weekend prime time but more likely weeknights) this whole needing to switch cos this happens or that happens doesn't happen.

The majority of people I know play one alliance, and the majority of the opposing players many of whom are nemesis's lol stay the same.

Do I know people that have multiple alliances yes. Do I come across them in game, not hugely. AND my point is that those guys I know, switch at campaign end. Mainly for their score etc.

Those that do alliance switch and are all over multiple leaderboards are know to mess around with AP.

I said hostile as you are either calling me a liar @Joy_Division and I'm not.

I stand by my sentiment - those that I NOTICE alliance switching mid campaign that have an impact on me are generally up to no good.

Let's just agree to differ, I'm a big advocate of you and your guides but I resent someone saying I'm lying to make a point when I'm not. I'm glad alliance switching is not used poorly on your platform / region, I might have to come over lol

Beardimus

VaranisArano wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

@VaranisArano its a fine line as these guys are doing both. Sometimes all swapping to other alliance. Other times aplit in groups standing by not engaging, not bothering to repair walls.jist to let the others walk back in and flip

I'd say that standing by, not repairing, and letting others flip, particularly if they then retake the flags to get their own tick is an example of the sort of offenses ZOS called exploiting. That's pretty similar to what happened at Bleakers during the double AP week for the No CP test.

Its possible to leave a keep unrepaired as part of a tactical manuever. I've done it as part of a smash-and-grab to take a scroll, which didn't have anything to do with trading AP. What you described is pretty obviously trading AP and ZOS has said that's not how you are supposed to play the game.

But if the emp ring is red and I want to speed up the dethrone process, I'm currently allowed to swap to AD and start capturing emp keeps. Then at any point, I can swap back to EP and start taking back keeps. Again, I don't think that's healthy gameplay and that emp swapping is a good way to kill a campaign, but its currently allowed.

Thanks @VaranisArano appreciated

VaranisArano

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I gave up on tryin to get emp the fair way I’ll just go to a dead campaign get some AP then call in pvp guild to flip the circle just so I can get the damn achievement.

That is a fair way to get Emp.

I'll talk about my guild's situation. For a while we played on Vivec and Shor on PC/NA. We've crowned one or two guildies on Vivec, but that was a ton of effort. Shor is a lot easier to get to the top of the leaderboard for anyone with a life outside of PVP. I've been a part of emp pushes on Shor and Haderus before it, and its still a lot of honest effort.

If a guildie wants emperor, we'll do exactly what you talk about. They get the AP. They have to get the AP and get in the leaderboard position to put the effort it to get emperor. We don't handhold and feed AP. But when that guildie has the leaderboard position and its time to make the push around the emp ring, we'll be there.

If you put in the time and effort to get the AP and the leaderbaord position by legitimately fighting the enemy and fighting for your faction, there's no shame in asking the PVP guilds of your faction to back you up and make you emperor. Seriously, backing up an emperor who's honestly put in the effort is a genuine pleasure for a faction-loyal guild.

thedude33

I am likely missing something, but what's the big deal with AP ? In other games, like DAOC, pvp rankings made you stronger. so I could see the importance. What does it give you in ESO ? Rewards of the Unworthy and ?

Joy_Division

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Interested to discuss this.

I'm aware many players like being able to switch alliance mid campaign. I do not agree with it, c and this time I'm furious.

I worked hard this campaign reset to get ahead and get myself Emp for the first time. Took time off work and a big effort to achieve it had to fight the outgoing emp who's a Pro and use all resources i had!

Im Ebonheart Pact and loyal. Friday night I played as Emp with a guy his score was low, unsure of Cyrodiil and i helped him out. Saturday I came on and he had been on all night and had a gd score up the board fair enough I thought, tho map was mainly red as I left after midnight.... But Saturday he had switched to his DC toon with mates to take the Emp keeps flip map and boost AP (ihave full video and image proof)

Luckily I came on in time for last keep battle - HUZZAH!- and had my first 1vX defending Chalman with one EP mate. Killed this player and We wiped them twice, it was close tho. Then I started to get abuse from him and his mates that I was out of order and not honorable (I.e. I was stopping a fellow Pact guy get Emp) surely the outgoing Emp defending last keep is honorable????? And switching sides to boost AP and flip map the opposite? They spammed zone chat (switching back) and Xbox message from abuse to offers of 300k to walk away

Just salty I guess......

Anyway they gave up (shame, as Great fight and they nearly got us twice) and i logged out for the weekend. But yesterday map was blue that group took emp and farmed AP with it. Overnight this Pact guys score has doubled and now has Emp. Making a mockery of the whole system.

It's not taken away my efforts, im not bitter and nor will I feel bad for my personal battle of the Chal-amo. But I want the community view on this.

I have complete evidence of him switching alliances to flip the 6 keeps. Overnight AP farming I wasn't witness to to be clear.

TLDR -
1. is switching alliances to boost AP and flip keeps for your own Emp push legit? I.e. Flip then as DC, change back to EP to flip back.
2. How can we stop this type of thing bar locking alliance per campaign?
3. Should players doing it be reported?

Can we please STOP blaming and stereotyping people who play on multiple factions?

This has nothing to do with Alliance hopping and everything to do with them being a salty **** and the stupid emperor politics that happen because of low populated servers.

Sorry @Joy_Division , I can only speak for what I see, and sadly I only see nefarious things. And when they happen they detrimentally impact PvP, peoples motivations, even peoples morals as they decide its the only way. It undermines the game.

I'm not stereotyping. I'm not saying all those pro switching are exploiters, please don't think that. BUT those that are obviously exploiting in this way are alliance switching.

The rosey side I'm not witness too despite being in since launch.

If you only see nefarious things, then you are selectively blind and choosing only to see those things which confirm your own biases

Whoa, why so hostile? Come on @Joy_Division......

My side running scrolls I see, big impact
AP boosting I see, wrecks leaderboards
Emp keep flipping i see, devalues Emp title

People 'playing with mates' I don't see. And has no Impact on me thus unlikely to notice anyway. Any that DO that I know certainly wouldn't mind waiting 7 days or 30 even to play with anothe group. Fact.

Zero need for a gruff response. Perhaps all the things @Aisle9 has more elequently retorted are going on and its just not obvious or impactful to me would be a better response, which id accept.

I'm not selectivly blind, but the pro's outweigh the cons in terms of actual impact to 3rd parties.

That's not hostility.

You are trying to tell me that you have been on in 4 years and never seen one instance where someone moving to another faction was not nefarious. You are saying If I log off a faction-stacking campaign that has emperor, a lead in the AvA score, and is pushing the enemy gates, that I or anyone else is being nefarious. Nope, sorry. Disagree now and will disagree always. I will not take part in that nonsense.

Honestly maybe things are different in your region, Xbox EU is never pop locked (well when I play anyway which does sometimes cover weekend prime time but more likely weeknights) this whole needing to switch cos this happens or that happens doesn't happen.

The majority of people I know play one alliance, and the majority of the opposing players many of whom are nemesis's lol stay the same.

Do I know people that have multiple alliances yes. Do I come across them in game, not hugely. AND my point is that those guys I know, switch at campaign end. Mainly for their score etc.

Those that do alliance switch and are all over multiple leaderboards are know to mess around with AP.

I said hostile as you are either calling me a liar @Joy_Division and I'm not.

I stand by my sentiment - those that I NOTICE alliance switching mid campaign that have an impact on me are generally up to no good.

Let's just agree to differ, I'm a big advocate of you and your guides but I resent someone saying I'm lying to make a point when I'm not. I'm glad alliance switching is not used poorly on your platform / region, I might have to come over lol

You only notice nefarious things. That's either being biased or, if true, saying that I and every other multi-faction player is being nefarious.

So you're allowed to toss out these accusations about me and other players and we're supposed to just sit back meekly and accept it? You're allowed to be resentful of someone accusing you of something you think is not true, but I'm supposed to just sit back meekly and accept it when you do so to me?

VaranisArano

thedude33 wrote: »

I am likely missing something, but what's the big deal with AP ? In other games, like DAOC, pvp rankings made you stronger. so I could see the importance. What does it give you in ESO ? Rewards of the Unworthy and ?

As you get AP you get:
PVP Skills
PVP rank - unlocks titles, dyes, and skill points
End of Campaign Rewards - (Home Campaign only), gear, gold, and transmute stones
Rewards of the Worthy - every 20k AP or so, gear + chance at transmute crystal
Currency - AP can be used for the Golden Merchants' wares, Alliance War equipment like siege, Regional gear RNG boxes, Akaviri and Militant Ordinator motifs

And Leaderboard standing. The higher your leaderboard standing in your home campaign, the better quality End of Campaign Rewards you get. If you are # 1 on your faction's leaderboard when your faction captures ALL of the emp ring keeps, you become the emperor until you lose ALL of the emp ring keeps.

VaranisArano

drkfrontiers wrote: »

PvP in ESO = TOXIC

Its kind of strange as in all other games I play I really enjoy PvP. Just ESO.

I suspect it has something to do with ESO's PVP being designed for groups of 8 to 24 players and the natural tendencies of PVPers to work together about as well as a herd of cats combined with several years' worth of extreme competitiveness.

There are definitely times when the EP vs EP battle raging in zone chat is fiercer than the EP vs DC or EP vs AD fighting going on at our keeps.

Beardimus

VaranisArano wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I gave up on tryin to get emp the fair way I’ll just go to a dead campaign get some AP then call in pvp guild to flip the circle just so I can get the damn achievement.

That is a fair way to get Emp.

I'll talk about my guild's situation. For a while we played on Vivec and Shor on PC/NA. We've crowned one or two guildies on Vivec, but that was a ton of effort. Shor is a lot easier to get to the top of the leaderboard for anyone with a life outside of PVP. I've been a part of emp pushes on Shor and Haderus before it, and its still a lot of honest effort.

If a guildie wants emperor, we'll do exactly what you talk about. They get the AP. They have to get the AP and get in the leaderboard position to put the effort it to get emperor. We don't handhold and feed AP. But when that guildie has the leaderboard position and its time to make the push around the emp ring, we'll be there.

If you put in the time and effort to get the AP and the leaderbaord position by legitimately fighting the enemy and fighting for your faction, there's no shame in asking the PVP guilds of your faction to back you up and make you emperor. Seriously, backing up an emperor who's honestly put in the effort is a genuine pleasure for a faction-loyal guild.

Spot on, absolutely spot on. Floppy was too hard on himself as this is legit way to do it.

Beardimus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Interested to discuss this.

I'm aware many players like being able to switch alliance mid campaign. I do not agree with it, c and this time I'm furious.

I worked hard this campaign reset to get ahead and get myself Emp for the first time. Took time off work and a big effort to achieve it had to fight the outgoing emp who's a Pro and use all resources i had!

Im Ebonheart Pact and loyal. Friday night I played as Emp with a guy his score was low, unsure of Cyrodiil and i helped him out. Saturday I came on and he had been on all night and had a gd score up the board fair enough I thought, tho map was mainly red as I left after midnight.... But Saturday he had switched to his DC toon with mates to take the Emp keeps flip map and boost AP (ihave full video and image proof)

Luckily I came on in time for last keep battle - HUZZAH!- and had my first 1vX defending Chalman with one EP mate. Killed this player and We wiped them twice, it was close tho. Then I started to get abuse from him and his mates that I was out of order and not honorable (I.e. I was stopping a fellow Pact guy get Emp) surely the outgoing Emp defending last keep is honorable????? And switching sides to boost AP and flip map the opposite? They spammed zone chat (switching back) and Xbox message from abuse to offers of 300k to walk away

Just salty I guess......

Anyway they gave up (shame, as Great fight and they nearly got us twice) and i logged out for the weekend. But yesterday map was blue that group took emp and farmed AP with it. Overnight this Pact guys score has doubled and now has Emp. Making a mockery of the whole system.

It's not taken away my efforts, im not bitter and nor will I feel bad for my personal battle of the Chal-amo. But I want the community view on this.

I have complete evidence of him switching alliances to flip the 6 keeps. Overnight AP farming I wasn't witness to to be clear.

TLDR -
1. is switching alliances to boost AP and flip keeps for your own Emp push legit? I.e. Flip then as DC, change back to EP to flip back.
2. How can we stop this type of thing bar locking alliance per campaign?
3. Should players doing it be reported?

Can we please STOP blaming and stereotyping people who play on multiple factions?

This has nothing to do with Alliance hopping and everything to do with them being a salty **** and the stupid emperor politics that happen because of low populated servers.

Sorry @Joy_Division , I can only speak for what I see, and sadly I only see nefarious things. And when they happen they detrimentally impact PvP, peoples motivations, even peoples morals as they decide its the only way. It undermines the game.

I'm not stereotyping. I'm not saying all those pro switching are exploiters, please don't think that. BUT those that are obviously exploiting in this way are alliance switching.

The rosey side I'm not witness too despite being in since launch.

If you only see nefarious things, then you are selectively blind and choosing only to see those things which confirm your own biases

Whoa, why so hostile? Come on @Joy_Division......

My side running scrolls I see, big impact
AP boosting I see, wrecks leaderboards
Emp keep flipping i see, devalues Emp title

People 'playing with mates' I don't see. And has no Impact on me thus unlikely to notice anyway. Any that DO that I know certainly wouldn't mind waiting 7 days or 30 even to play with anothe group. Fact.

Zero need for a gruff response. Perhaps all the things @Aisle9 has more elequently retorted are going on and its just not obvious or impactful to me would be a better response, which id accept.

I'm not selectivly blind, but the pro's outweigh the cons in terms of actual impact to 3rd parties.

That's not hostility.

You are trying to tell me that you have been on in 4 years and never seen one instance where someone moving to another faction was not nefarious. You are saying If I log off a faction-stacking campaign that has emperor, a lead in the AvA score, and is pushing the enemy gates, that I or anyone else is being nefarious. Nope, sorry. Disagree now and will disagree always. I will not take part in that nonsense.

Honestly maybe things are different in your region, Xbox EU is never pop locked (well when I play anyway which does sometimes cover weekend prime time but more likely weeknights) this whole needing to switch cos this happens or that happens doesn't happen.

The majority of people I know play one alliance, and the majority of the opposing players many of whom are nemesis's lol stay the same.

Do I know people that have multiple alliances yes. Do I come across them in game, not hugely. AND my point is that those guys I know, switch at campaign end. Mainly for their score etc.

Those that do alliance switch and are all over multiple leaderboards are know to mess around with AP.

I said hostile as you are either calling me a liar @Joy_Division and I'm not.

I stand by my sentiment - those that I NOTICE alliance switching mid campaign that have an impact on me are generally up to no good.

Let's just agree to differ, I'm a big advocate of you and your guides but I resent someone saying I'm lying to make a point when I'm not. I'm glad alliance switching is not used poorly on your platform / region, I might have to come over lol

You only notice nefarious things. That's either being biased or, if true, saying that I and every other multi-faction player is being nefarious.

So you're allowed to toss out these accusations about me and other players and we're supposed to just sit back meekly and accept it? You're allowed to be resentful of someone accusing you of something you think is not true, but I'm supposed to just sit back meekly and accept it when you do so to me?

@Joy_Division honestly, let's just agree to differ. I'm not calling you or anyone (bar the cheaters) anything. I never would accuse anyone of anything without fact.

I can only talk about what I know, what I see. Thats how i operate purely on facts available to me (and my guild mates) very sadly I don't play with you as clearly you play with honour and integrity. And if everyone did that, id have zero issue with alliance swapping.

Please don't take offense. My wording is very specific, those that I notice etc. My region. My platform at the times I play. And clearly these nefarius actions are memorable. To your point I could easily miss peoples GTs on a daily basis who switch alliances, sure I accept that, but those on the scoreboard are noticeable. Those running our scrolls are and the guys I started this thread about

I only dislike switching because of how ive seen it used on multiple occasions, otherwise why would I, and the others that back me up on this thread and the repeated other threads about this have such a problem with it.

It's great that you and Aisle etc have a wider view of the benefits of switching and my eyes have been opened a bit during this thread, but that doesn't stop the switchers I'm pumped with switching and messing with a game I love.

We can agree to differ let's focus then on what can be done to stop these knobs annoying me and bringing alliance lock threads up here which you are passionate about. Of we can help ZOS fix the root cause perhaps we both win.

Vermintide

Alliances really need to be locked. The benefits far outweigh the drawbacks at this point.

More than once now, I've seen people log into an alt to grab a scroll and hand deliver it to their group of friends. It's beyond pathetic.

Perhaps we need friendly fire, so traitors can be summarily executed.

VaranisArano

There's not really anything you can do about the scroll-runners, though.

If you faction-lock for the duration of the campaign, sure you'll cut down on all but the most dedicated spies.

But I can't tell you how many times my guild's popped a scroll keep only for some random guy to grab the scroll. Like, we've got a scroll runner with the right gear/build to run that scroll wherever it needs to go and this random person really doesn't have that. They might be faction-loyal, but that scroll run's chance of success just took a sharp nosedive.

You want salt in chat? Be in a guild group when some random player grabs a scroll.

You see various things when that happens. If another group grabbed the scroll, well, it's their responsibility now. You grabbed it, you run it. If the runner is cooperative, we'll guard them as best we can, but if they die and drop the scroll, it'll be our scroll runner grabbing it. All the while, zone chat is like "what's happening with the scroll?!"

So faction-locking would undoubtedly cut down on all but the most dedicated trolls. AP farming with scrolls and incompetent scroll runners are still going to happen.

Beardimus

That's a great point. I concur with both posts

Vermintide

VaranisArano wrote: »

There's not really anything you can do about the scroll-runners, though.

Sure there is- Make the lock account wide.

VaranisArano

Vermintide wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

There's not really anything you can do about the scroll-runners, though.

Sure there is- Make the lock account wide.

If you read what I posted, not all wacky hijinks that happen with scrolls happen because someone is actually trolling in favor of the other faction.

Making a lock account wide would deter all but the most dedicated spies, sure. Trolls still happen. So do incompetent scroll runners.

My point wasn't that an faction lock wouldn't help. My point was that a faction lock isn't going to solve all the problems with scroll runners.

Joy_Division

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Interested to discuss this.

I'm aware many players like being able to switch alliance mid campaign. I do not agree with it, c and this time I'm furious.

I worked hard this campaign reset to get ahead and get myself Emp for the first time. Took time off work and a big effort to achieve it had to fight the outgoing emp who's a Pro and use all resources i had!

Im Ebonheart Pact and loyal. Friday night I played as Emp with a guy his score was low, unsure of Cyrodiil and i helped him out. Saturday I came on and he had been on all night and had a gd score up the board fair enough I thought, tho map was mainly red as I left after midnight.... But Saturday he had switched to his DC toon with mates to take the Emp keeps flip map and boost AP (ihave full video and image proof)

Luckily I came on in time for last keep battle - HUZZAH!- and had my first 1vX defending Chalman with one EP mate. Killed this player and We wiped them twice, it was close tho. Then I started to get abuse from him and his mates that I was out of order and not honorable (I.e. I was stopping a fellow Pact guy get Emp) surely the outgoing Emp defending last keep is honorable????? And switching sides to boost AP and flip map the opposite? They spammed zone chat (switching back) and Xbox message from abuse to offers of 300k to walk away

Just salty I guess......

Anyway they gave up (shame, as Great fight and they nearly got us twice) and i logged out for the weekend. But yesterday map was blue that group took emp and farmed AP with it. Overnight this Pact guys score has doubled and now has Emp. Making a mockery of the whole system.

It's not taken away my efforts, im not bitter and nor will I feel bad for my personal battle of the Chal-amo. But I want the community view on this.

I have complete evidence of him switching alliances to flip the 6 keeps. Overnight AP farming I wasn't witness to to be clear.

TLDR -
1. is switching alliances to boost AP and flip keeps for your own Emp push legit? I.e. Flip then as DC, change back to EP to flip back.
2. How can we stop this type of thing bar locking alliance per campaign?
3. Should players doing it be reported?

Can we please STOP blaming and stereotyping people who play on multiple factions?

This has nothing to do with Alliance hopping and everything to do with them being a salty **** and the stupid emperor politics that happen because of low populated servers.

Sorry @Joy_Division , I can only speak for what I see, and sadly I only see nefarious things. And when they happen they detrimentally impact PvP, peoples motivations, even peoples morals as they decide its the only way. It undermines the game.

I'm not stereotyping. I'm not saying all those pro switching are exploiters, please don't think that. BUT those that are obviously exploiting in this way are alliance switching.

The rosey side I'm not witness too despite being in since launch.

If you only see nefarious things, then you are selectively blind and choosing only to see those things which confirm your own biases

Whoa, why so hostile? Come on @Joy_Division......

My side running scrolls I see, big impact
AP boosting I see, wrecks leaderboards
Emp keep flipping i see, devalues Emp title

People 'playing with mates' I don't see. And has no Impact on me thus unlikely to notice anyway. Any that DO that I know certainly wouldn't mind waiting 7 days or 30 even to play with anothe group. Fact.

Zero need for a gruff response. Perhaps all the things @Aisle9 has more elequently retorted are going on and its just not obvious or impactful to me would be a better response, which id accept.

I'm not selectivly blind, but the pro's outweigh the cons in terms of actual impact to 3rd parties.

That's not hostility.

You are trying to tell me that you have been on in 4 years and never seen one instance where someone moving to another faction was not nefarious. You are saying If I log off a faction-stacking campaign that has emperor, a lead in the AvA score, and is pushing the enemy gates, that I or anyone else is being nefarious. Nope, sorry. Disagree now and will disagree always. I will not take part in that nonsense.

Honestly maybe things are different in your region, Xbox EU is never pop locked (well when I play anyway which does sometimes cover weekend prime time but more likely weeknights) this whole needing to switch cos this happens or that happens doesn't happen.

The majority of people I know play one alliance, and the majority of the opposing players many of whom are nemesis's lol stay the same.

Do I know people that have multiple alliances yes. Do I come across them in game, not hugely. AND my point is that those guys I know, switch at campaign end. Mainly for their score etc.

Those that do alliance switch and are all over multiple leaderboards are know to mess around with AP.

I said hostile as you are either calling me a liar @Joy_Division and I'm not.

I stand by my sentiment - those that I NOTICE alliance switching mid campaign that have an impact on me are generally up to no good.

Let's just agree to differ, I'm a big advocate of you and your guides but I resent someone saying I'm lying to make a point when I'm not. I'm glad alliance switching is not used poorly on your platform / region, I might have to come over lol

You only notice nefarious things. That's either being biased or, if true, saying that I and every other multi-faction player is being nefarious.

So you're allowed to toss out these accusations about me and other players and we're supposed to just sit back meekly and accept it? You're allowed to be resentful of someone accusing you of something you think is not true, but I'm supposed to just sit back meekly and accept it when you do so to me?

@Joy_Division honestly, let's just agree to differ. I'm not calling you or anyone (bar the cheaters) anything. I never would accuse anyone of anything without fact.

I can only talk about what I know, what I see. Thats how i operate purely on facts available to me (and my guild mates) very sadly I don't play with you as clearly you play with honour and integrity. And if everyone did that, id have zero issue with alliance swapping.

Please don't take offense. My wording is very specific, those that I notice etc. My region. My platform at the times I play. And clearly these nefarius actions are memorable. To your point I could easily miss peoples GTs on a daily basis who switch alliances, sure I accept that, but those on the scoreboard are noticeable. Those running our scrolls are and the guys I started this thread about

I only dislike switching because of how ive seen it used on multiple occasions, otherwise why would I, and the others that back me up on this thread and the repeated other threads about this have such a problem with it.

It's great that you and Aisle etc have a wider view of the benefits of switching and my eyes have been opened a bit during this thread, but that doesn't stop the switchers I'm pumped with switching and messing with a game I love.

We can agree to differ let's focus then on what can be done to stop these knobs annoying me and bringing alliance lock threads up here which you are passionate about. Of we can help ZOS fix the root cause perhaps we both win.

OK fair enough. I meant no offense either.

I am just uncomfortable with negative blanket associations with regards to multi-factioned players (or any other group of players for that matter).

Of course there are jerks who are multi-faction. Just as there are jerks that don't. It is what it is. As long as there are jerks, they will poison everyone's PvP experience.

agegarton

“Nefarious behaviour” ?

“Disgusting” ?

Jesus, people, get a life.

Having multiple characters over multiple factions is perfectly normal, perfectly acceptable. Rolling to a different character - and different faction - so that you can go where the fun is? Also perfectly normal and acceptable. Stop being so elitist and try to remember that this is a game.

Aisle9

agegarton wrote: »

“Nefarious behaviour” ?

“Disgusting” ?

Jesus, people, get a life.

Having multiple characters over multiple factions is perfectly normal, perfectly acceptable. Rolling to a different character - and different faction - so that you can go where the fun is? Also perfectly normal and acceptable. Stop being so elitist and try to remember that this is a game.

In fairness, what is being argued about is the fact that some of the actions taken are not perfectly acceptable.

That's why they call them exploit.

to be honest, some exploits are kind of disgusting

also, I have a life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B1M3IPVcXs

Beardimus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Interested to discuss this.

I'm aware many players like being able to switch alliance mid campaign. I do not agree with it, c and this time I'm furious.

I worked hard this campaign reset to get ahead and get myself Emp for the first time. Took time off work and a big effort to achieve it had to fight the outgoing emp who's a Pro and use all resources i had!

Im Ebonheart Pact and loyal. Friday night I played as Emp with a guy his score was low, unsure of Cyrodiil and i helped him out. Saturday I came on and he had been on all night and had a gd score up the board fair enough I thought, tho map was mainly red as I left after midnight.... But Saturday he had switched to his DC toon with mates to take the Emp keeps flip map and boost AP (ihave full video and image proof)

Luckily I came on in time for last keep battle - HUZZAH!- and had my first 1vX defending Chalman with one EP mate. Killed this player and We wiped them twice, it was close tho. Then I started to get abuse from him and his mates that I was out of order and not honorable (I.e. I was stopping a fellow Pact guy get Emp) surely the outgoing Emp defending last keep is honorable????? And switching sides to boost AP and flip map the opposite? They spammed zone chat (switching back) and Xbox message from abuse to offers of 300k to walk away

Just salty I guess......

Anyway they gave up (shame, as Great fight and they nearly got us twice) and i logged out for the weekend. But yesterday map was blue that group took emp and farmed AP with it. Overnight this Pact guys score has doubled and now has Emp. Making a mockery of the whole system.

It's not taken away my efforts, im not bitter and nor will I feel bad for my personal battle of the Chal-amo. But I want the community view on this.

I have complete evidence of him switching alliances to flip the 6 keeps. Overnight AP farming I wasn't witness to to be clear.

TLDR -
1. is switching alliances to boost AP and flip keeps for your own Emp push legit? I.e. Flip then as DC, change back to EP to flip back.
2. How can we stop this type of thing bar locking alliance per campaign?
3. Should players doing it be reported?

Can we please STOP blaming and stereotyping people who play on multiple factions?

This has nothing to do with Alliance hopping and everything to do with them being a salty **** and the stupid emperor politics that happen because of low populated servers.

Sorry @Joy_Division , I can only speak for what I see, and sadly I only see nefarious things. And when they happen they detrimentally impact PvP, peoples motivations, even peoples morals as they decide its the only way. It undermines the game.

I'm not stereotyping. I'm not saying all those pro switching are exploiters, please don't think that. BUT those that are obviously exploiting in this way are alliance switching.

The rosey side I'm not witness too despite being in since launch.

If you only see nefarious things, then you are selectively blind and choosing only to see those things which confirm your own biases

Whoa, why so hostile? Come on @Joy_Division......

My side running scrolls I see, big impact
AP boosting I see, wrecks leaderboards
Emp keep flipping i see, devalues Emp title

People 'playing with mates' I don't see. And has no Impact on me thus unlikely to notice anyway. Any that DO that I know certainly wouldn't mind waiting 7 days or 30 even to play with anothe group. Fact.

Zero need for a gruff response. Perhaps all the things @Aisle9 has more elequently retorted are going on and its just not obvious or impactful to me would be a better response, which id accept.

I'm not selectivly blind, but the pro's outweigh the cons in terms of actual impact to 3rd parties.

That's not hostility.

You are trying to tell me that you have been on in 4 years and never seen one instance where someone moving to another faction was not nefarious. You are saying If I log off a faction-stacking campaign that has emperor, a lead in the AvA score, and is pushing the enemy gates, that I or anyone else is being nefarious. Nope, sorry. Disagree now and will disagree always. I will not take part in that nonsense.

Honestly maybe things are different in your region, Xbox EU is never pop locked (well when I play anyway which does sometimes cover weekend prime time but more likely weeknights) this whole needing to switch cos this happens or that happens doesn't happen.

The majority of people I know play one alliance, and the majority of the opposing players many of whom are nemesis's lol stay the same.

Do I know people that have multiple alliances yes. Do I come across them in game, not hugely. AND my point is that those guys I know, switch at campaign end. Mainly for their score etc.

Those that do alliance switch and are all over multiple leaderboards are know to mess around with AP.

I said hostile as you are either calling me a liar @Joy_Division and I'm not.

I stand by my sentiment - those that I NOTICE alliance switching mid campaign that have an impact on me are generally up to no good.

Let's just agree to differ, I'm a big advocate of you and your guides but I resent someone saying I'm lying to make a point when I'm not. I'm glad alliance switching is not used poorly on your platform / region, I might have to come over lol

You only notice nefarious things. That's either being biased or, if true, saying that I and every other multi-faction player is being nefarious.

So you're allowed to toss out these accusations about me and other players and we're supposed to just sit back meekly and accept it? You're allowed to be resentful of someone accusing you of something you think is not true, but I'm supposed to just sit back meekly and accept it when you do so to me?

@Joy_Division honestly, let's just agree to differ. I'm not calling you or anyone (bar the cheaters) anything. I never would accuse anyone of anything without fact.

I can only talk about what I know, what I see. Thats how i operate purely on facts available to me (and my guild mates) very sadly I don't play with you as clearly you play with honour and integrity. And if everyone did that, id have zero issue with alliance swapping.

Please don't take offense. My wording is very specific, those that I notice etc. My region. My platform at the times I play. And clearly these nefarius actions are memorable. To your point I could easily miss peoples GTs on a daily basis who switch alliances, sure I accept that, but those on the scoreboard are noticeable. Those running our scrolls are and the guys I started this thread about

I only dislike switching because of how ive seen it used on multiple occasions, otherwise why would I, and the others that back me up on this thread and the repeated other threads about this have such a problem with it.

It's great that you and Aisle etc have a wider view of the benefits of switching and my eyes have been opened a bit during this thread, but that doesn't stop the switchers I'm pumped with switching and messing with a game I love.

We can agree to differ let's focus then on what can be done to stop these knobs annoying me and bringing alliance lock threads up here which you are passionate about. Of we can help ZOS fix the root cause perhaps we both win.

OK fair enough. I meant no offense either.

I am just uncomfortable with negative blanket associations with regards to multi-factioned players (or any other group of players for that matter).

Of course there are jerks who are multi-faction. Just as there are jerks that don't. It is what it is. As long as there are jerks, they will poison everyone's PvP experience.

Spot on! In full agreement there

Beardimus

Vermintide wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

There's not really anything you can do about the scroll-runners, though.

Sure there is- Make the lock account wide.

Now that's going too far even for me!! Certainly wouldn't advocate that .