Stam. Sorc. Help

Powerburrito20

Ok I need some help on opinions please. What would be a better dps combo. I have a stam sorc. With a crit of 83.9% and weap dam of 3517 self buff no war horn. Thief mundus running night mothers gaze and automation. I was thinking of trying a set of archers mind from dsa but unsure if I would benefit. Maybe with crit damage mundus? But if so, which set to drop.....nmg or automation?

Powerburrito20

690 cp as well

jakeedmundson

https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-sorcerer-build-pve/

I like to add my own things to builds... but this is a perfect place to start and get answers to your questions.
but to answer your gear question... nmg and automaton is a perfect setup.

Sawzallz

What race? Also I'm in the same boat as you pal and we are sinking

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Having 83% crit is way over kill. Thief is a dps lost the warrior, that will go a along way to better DPS.

Icy_Waffles

5 piece hundings. 5 piece spriggins. Stormfist monster set. Or kraghs. 5 medium, 1 heavy, 1 light. All divines. Warrior stone. Redguard. Dubious camoran food. 2 daggers, 1 nirn, 1 precise. 1 bow backbar nirn.

This is a great settup until you can replace spriggins with twice fanged serpent.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

5 piece hundings. 5 piece spriggins. Stormfist monster set. Or kraghs. 5 medium, 1 heavy, 1 light. All divines. Warrior stone. Redguard. Dubious camoran food. 2 daggers, 1 nirn, 1 precise. 1 bow backbar nirn.

This is a great settup until you can replace spriggins with twice fanged serpent.

i agree with this but you need to have an infused offhand and nirn main hand. because infused impacts both enchants, causing the poison enchant to go off every 2 seconds instead of 4. Precise is junk.

kylewwefan

Keep the sets you have. Pick up stormfist Monster Set. Switch to the lover mundus for solo and pug/ warrior for coordinated groups.

LiquidPony

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Having 83% crit is way over kill. Thief is a dps lost the warrior, that will go a along way to better DPS.

While it is correct that The Warrior will (in most cases) out-DPS The Thief, it has absolutely nothing to do with 83% crit being "overkill."

If The Thief granted +20% critical instead of +10.68%, The Thief would be BiS, OP would have 93% crit, and it would not be "overkill."

@Powerburrito20 your NMG + Automaton setup is fantastic. Good for just about everything in PvE, that's a setup people use in competitive end game Trials.

IMO don't waste your time farming Spriggan's as others have recommended. NMG or Sunderflame will be a better use of your time/money.

Powerburrito20

Thanks all. So archers mind would not benefit over nmg or automation since I have a high crit %?

LiquidPony

Powerburrito20 wrote: »

Thanks all. So archers mind would not benefit over nmg or automation since I have a high crit %?

Archer's Mind just doesn't grant enough crit damage to be useful. If that bonus were 10-12% instead of 5%, it would be a great set.

Stick with NMG and Automaton IMO.

Cybercore_Death

Another thing to add to this which I have found out from research is that if you can farm Sunderflame daggers as part of your front bar 5 piece (along with 3 jewellery) then had 5 Hundings as your body 5 pieces and 2 piece monster set you don’t lose the Sunderflame proc when bar swapping unlike with Spriggans so your bow bar fully benefits from Sunder. That she vCoA2 is a really easy farm

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

LiquidPony wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Having 83% crit is way over kill. Thief is a dps lost the warrior, that will go a along way to better DPS.

While it is correct that The Warrior will (in most cases) out-DPS The Thief, it has absolutely nothing to do with 83% crit being "overkill."

If The Thief granted +20% critical instead of +10.68%, The Thief would be BiS, OP would have 93% crit, and it would not be "overkill."

@Powerburrito20 your NMG + Automaton setup is fantastic. Good for just about everything in PvE, that's a setup people use in competitive end game Trials.

IMO don't waste your time farming Spriggan's as others have recommended. NMG or Sunderflame will be a better use of your time/money.

this is that of course if you double the thief mundas stones value, it would be better then the almost 600 weapon damage from the warrior, but it is not, so i am not sure what you are on about there.

if you are talking about just saying that 83% cirt is overkill in game, then yes it is, you have to sacrifice so much to get there, crit becomes less valuable then something else, like taking the thief over warrior, that is what i consider overkill.

on sets, i hate the idea of stuff becoming redundant if i am in a group, hence hundings over NMG. the dps difference the 2 sets is nonexistent.

SmellyUnlimited

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Having 83% crit is way over kill. Thief is a dps lost the warrior, that will go a along way to better DPS.

Agreed. You obviously want decent a decent chance for Crit Surge, but anything over 60-ish you get substantially diminished returns (someone on forum did the write-up on optimal crit %, but i can't seem to find it).

Powerburrito20

@SmellyUnlimited , @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO . heres what i did from what i read here. I kept my nmg and automation. Weap dam is around 3500 and crit is 72% with weap power potion ( major sav and major brut ) with shadow mundus. Spc adds a few hundred more weap dam. Crits hit really hard, and often. Race is kahjit ( sp? ).At this point do you all think warrior mundus would still be highet dps?

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Also in another thread i see you recommend a nirn trait mainhand with poi enchant and infused offhand with weap dam. enchant, both daggers? I am currently running one precise and one sharp. would your setup produce more dps, although losing the precise would lower crit chance, and losing sharp would lower penetration?

Asardes

Drop Thief and use Warrior or Lover instead, ~60% critical is more than enough. As for sets Automaton and NMG are pretty good. If you can get in a trial you can also get Vicious Ophidian and combo it with one of those sets. Stormfist is probably the best monster set.

Icy_Waffles

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

5 piece hundings. 5 piece spriggins. Stormfist monster set. Or kraghs. 5 medium, 1 heavy, 1 light. All divines. Warrior stone. Redguard. Dubious camoran food. 2 daggers, 1 nirn, 1 precise. 1 bow backbar nirn.

This is a great settup until you can replace spriggins with twice fanged serpent.

i agree with this but you need to have an infused offhand and nirn main hand. because infused impacts both enchants, causing the poison enchant to go off every 2 seconds instead of 4. Precise is junk.

Not sure why i wrote precise. Just double checked and my offhand is infused.

SmellyUnlimited

Powerburrito20 wrote: »

@SmellyUnlimited , @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO . heres what i did from what i read here. I kept my nmg and automation. Weap dam is around 3500 and crit is 72% with weap power potion ( major sav and major brut ) with shadow mundus. Spc adds a few hundred more weap dam. Crits hit really hard, and often. Race is kahjit ( sp? ).At this point do you all think warrior mundus would still be highet dps?

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Also in another thread i see you recommend a nirn trait mainhand with poi enchant and infused offhand with weap dam. enchant, both daggers? I am currently running one precise and one sharp. would your setup produce more dps, although losing the precise would lower crit chance, and losing sharp would lower penetration?

I’d also say Warrior is your best bet as a stam sorc. You don’t have any class passives that synergize with Shadow as much as you do with just hard damage. With the mundus changes, I would say the only class viable to use Shadow now would be Nightblades. Their hemmorage passive gives 10%, and with Shadow (all legendary adds 13.73%), the almost 25% extra crit damage is very noticeable. They are the epitome of glass cannons. And I’ve only really seen Shadow used primarily in PvP on Gankblade builds.
There aren’t enough additional multipliers to make an additional 14% crit damage outperform 363 additional weapon damage (Warrior, all legendary divines). It’s based on your class passives that add a multiple % to your weapon power. Energized and Expert Mage add 9% to your weapon damage (assuming you have crit surge/hurricane on same bar). So that weapon damage bonus is a multiplicative bonus to your overall weapon damage. So once you’ve met the critical threshold of critting more often than you’re not critting, then adding the wpn dmg will more heavily improve your overall damage (and your crit, as it’s 1.5 your base damage).

Hopefully somewhere in that rambling i made sense lol.

Powerburrito20

@SmellyUnlimited Yes it does make since, thanks for the in depth answer. I'm just one of those that likes to see the big crit numbers, lol. But most important is the over all dps, i know. I will change to warrior tonight and see how it goes. What's your take on the weapon trraits and enchants that Lightspeed spoke of above?

Also slotting rearming trap gives 3% ea. weap dam.with slayer passive over the 2% ea. Expert mage passive gives. So i have 2 fighters guild skills slotted, and one sorcerer on main bar, and 3 sorc. slotted on back bar.

My bars are as of right now:1.Rending slash 1.Poison inj.
2.Steel tornado 2.Endless hail
3.Rapid strikes 3.Bound Armaments
4.Bound Armaments 4.Hurricane
5.Rearming trap 5.Dark deal
UL.Flawless dawnbreaker UL.Ballista

I use weap power potions for maj sav and maj brut instead of crit surge.

xbobx

don't do it.

stamina and sorcerer are just wrong, it goes against nature

Oreyn_Bearclaw

This is another thread where people are asking a question about BIS stam gear setups. There is not a definitive answer as we dont know anything about the rest of your group. Stamina players in a group must work together to coordinate their debuff sets: Nightmothers, Sunderflame, Alkosh.

The best raw DPS on a stam sorc is a combo of automaton/hundings/velidrith (or stormfist) with the warrior mundus stone. HOWEVER, that assumes that your group is getting you to the penetration cap. If they are not, you need to do your part to help get the group there. Penetration is always the best way to buff damage until you hit the cap (18.2k). The most obvious ways on a sorc are to run sunderflame or nightmothers (both work really well on stam sorc) as one of your penetration sets, and pair it with a damage set. The best damage sets are Automoaton>Hundings>Vicious ophidian. Hundings and VO are so close that I personally think that the utility benefits of VO make it a better option, but Hundings is a bit better for raw damage.

Every stamina player should have at least 4 gear combos. 1. Two damage sets, if asked to go full damage by your group (pretty rare). Only useful in a very good raid. 2. A damage set and Sunderflame. 3. A damage set and Night mother. 4. Solo build that focuses on penetration for when you dont have group support (Two fanged and Nightmothers is a tough combo to beat, and spriggans is a decent substitute for two fanged).

Anybody that declares a set to be BIS for all scenarios is not someone you should listen to...

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Powerburrito20 wrote: »

@SmellyUnlimited , @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO . heres what i did from what i read here. I kept my nmg and automation. Weap dam is around 3500 and crit is 72% with weap power potion ( major sav and major brut ) with shadow mundus. Spc adds a few hundred more weap dam. Crits hit really hard, and often. Race is kahjit ( sp? ).At this point do you all think warrior mundus would still be highet dps?

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Also in another thread i see you recommend a nirn trait mainhand with poi enchant and infused offhand with weap dam. enchant, both daggers? I am currently running one precise and one sharp. would your setup produce more dps, although losing the precise would lower crit chance, and losing sharp would lower penetration?

@Powerburrito20 here what i want you to do, get the warrior, test out on a dummy fully self buffed to see your highest CHD, then use the shadow and do the same. i have done this on my stamsorc, while the CHD was around the same, ~1% different, the baseline damage with the warrior is ~5% higher. try it, you will see.

Nirn/infused is more dps. if you use poison main hand/berserk off. this is for 2 reason, as i already explained in the thread you are referencing, with nirn on the main hand, you get the full value, 200 more base weapon damage, with precise or sharp, you only get half of the vale, 3.5% or 1376 pen. then for your off hand, infused again gives you the full value, an extra 30% of the glyphs power (ideally a berserk {http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Glyph_of_Weapon_Damage} enchant, a full 452 more weapon damage for 5 seconds) and here's the real juicy dps increase, it cuts the cooldown enchant of you main hand by 50%, so your poison echant will be going off every 2 seconds instead every 4. that is double the dps from your glyph and double the chance to proc the poison status effect, a decent dot on its own.

as a sorc, you would probably be better off with one dagger/ one ax, as you either use flurry or more likely heavy attacks as a spammable.

crit was nerfed a couple of patches ago, and is less important then people realise. as long as you have 55-60% crit, you will be fine, after major buffs. that axe bleed is no joke.

Also slotting rearming trap gives 3% ea. weap dam.with slayer passive over the 2% ea. Expert mage passive gives.

the Expert mage passive is bugged or maybe is intended, it only give 2% of the base weapon damage, so 2% of 1335 or 1535 with nirn, not any other weapon damage source, like glyphs from your jewelry or your armor sets. the 3% weapon damage from fighters guild does use the rest of your weapon damage. so it is better to front bar rearming. this is not well known, and can be seen documented here, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/379131/expert-mage-passive-bugged

@SmellyUnlimited Shadow (all legendary adds 13.73%)

that extra .73 is wasted, the game rounds down, so it is better to have 6 dinves and 1 infused if you are using the shadow, which i do not recommend, but if you do.

SmellyUnlimited

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Are Maelstrom 1hander’s still viable? Figured on stam Sorc above most stam since they rely on flurry (or I’ve seen some shrouded dagger). I know a long time ago they were BIS; not totally sure what changed, but it looks like it’d be pretty mean.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@SmellyUnlimited if you mean the cruel flurry set, it is bugged currently, has been for a few patches unfortunately, posion injection consumes the proc every tick and doesnt get buffed. So as a sorc, you only skills you would be empowering with the 2k weapon damage are trap, rending slashes, poison injection and the ulti rend, so no, it is not worth it when 1/4 of the skills are bugged. If you did want to use them, you would have to swap out poison injection with caltrops.

SmellyUnlimited

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@SmellyUnlimited if you mean the cruel flurry set, it is bugged currently, has been for a few patches unfortunately, posion injection consumes the proc every tick and doesnt get buffed. So as a sorc, you only skills you would be empowering with the 2k weapon damage are trap, rending slashes, poison injection and the ulti rend, so no, it is not worth it when 1/4 of the skills are bugged. If you did want to use them, you would have to swap out poison injection with caltrops.

Ah, gotcha. I’m guessing you’re referring to VMA in not running Caltrops? Usually for any group/trial activity I’m running it (sustain never seems to be a problem, so I don’t run bound armaments).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@SmellyUnlimited if you mean the cruel flurry set, it is bugged currently, has been for a few patches unfortunately, posion injection consumes the proc every tick and doesnt get buffed. So as a sorc, you only skills you would be empowering with the 2k weapon damage are trap, rending slashes, poison injection and the ulti rend, so no, it is not worth it when 1/4 of the skills are bugged. If you did want to use them, you would have to swap out poison injection with caltrops.

Ah, gotcha. I’m guessing you’re referring to VMA in not running Caltrops? Usually for any group/trial activity I’m running it (sustain never seems to be a problem, so I don’t run bound armaments).

Yes, when I say "them" I meant cruel flurry daggers or dagger/ax. You really ought to run bound armor, it is like 3k Stam on most builds and 11% more damage for only 2 slots and it is a signature sorc ablity, it would be better to drop power surge or dark conversion.

Yes, if you run cruel flurry, it is best not to use poison injection but you will probably be at a dps loss under 25%. I have never tried it and only ran cruel flurry on my stamden till I could retrait my master bow.

SmellyUnlimited

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@SmellyUnlimited if you mean the cruel flurry set, it is bugged currently, has been for a few patches unfortunately, posion injection consumes the proc every tick and doesnt get buffed. So as a sorc, you only skills you would be empowering with the 2k weapon damage are trap, rending slashes, poison injection and the ulti rend, so no, it is not worth it when 1/4 of the skills are bugged. If you did want to use them, you would have to swap out poison injection with caltrops.

Ah, gotcha. I’m guessing you’re referring to VMA in not running Caltrops? Usually for any group/trial activity I’m running it (sustain never seems to be a problem, so I don’t run bound armaments).

Yes, when I say "them" I meant cruel flurry daggers or dagger/ax. You really ought to run bound armor, it is like 3k Stam on most builds and 11% more damage for only 2 slots and it is a signature sorc ablity, it would be better to drop power surge or dark conversion.

Yes, if you run cruel flurry, it is best not to use poison injection but you will probably be at a dps loss under 25%. I have never tried it and only ran cruel flurry on my stamden till I could retrait my master bow.

Good point, I totally forgot about them 11% extra heavy damage (which reflecting on it, that’s pretty huge).

So for grouping/trials my abilities are close to @Powerburrito20

Front bar: Rapid Strikes, Rending slash, Deadly Cloak, Bound armaments, Rearming Trap. Ult - Flawless Dawnbreaker
Back bar: Poison inject, Arrow Hail, Hurricane, Bound Armaments, Caltrops. Ult - Ballista

Two questions I have on abilities / One big question

1. Should I swap out Flurry for Shrouded Dagger?
2. Is Dark Deal better than Vigor? Would you ever run both of them, or I’m assuming, just one?

Big question:

1. Are Stam Sorc’s always going to hit a wall in a dps parse? Ive never seen one really over 40k (or so they said), but it just seems like the other stam classes have a better repertoire of class abilities that push them to the upper 40 - 50k range (specifically NB and StamDK).

Asardes

Shrouded Daggers is a better ability if you are fighting multiple enemies.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@SmellyUnlimited 1. Should I swap out Flurry for Shrouded Dagger

You can, if you find the channel of flurry to be annoying, though keep in mind if you use an ax, flurry does proc the bleed, shrouded daggers does not.

2. Is Dark Deal better than Vigor? Would you ever run both of them, or I’m assuming, just one?

In serious end game content where you can rely on your healer, you don't need either. I do not have this luxury. I actually use overload on my back bar instead of ballista and put dark deal and vigor there in case things go sideways. If I had to choose, I would use vigor, helps the team more. But I also see dark deal as more of a way to get stam back, that also has a heal.

1. Are Stam Sorc’s always going to hit a wall in a dps parse? Ive never seen one really over 40k (or so they said), but it just seems like the other stam classes have a better repertoire of class abilities that push them to the upper 40 - 50k range (specifically NB and StamDK)

See, this is a little beyond my experience. But there are certain buffs and debuffs the classes you named there, have that sorcs do not have, namely major fracture, minor berzerk and Molten Armaments that give those classes inflated dummy parses.

Powerburrito20

@SmellyUnlimited , @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO , @Asardes . I'm one that has limited time on a dummy, and I know my rotations are far from great, but, yesterday switched to warrior mundus and hit the dummy. Seems I am around 26 to 27k. Seems way low for my gear / setup. I was still running the precise dagger mainhand with poi chant, and sharp off hand dagger with berz. Chant. I have since changed my off hand to an infused axe with berz. Chant, but not been back to the dummy although it did increase weap damage 400 points and crit is now like 65% self buffed, but lost some penetration. I plan to switch mainhand to nirn / poi dagger in the very near future. Not sure how much of a diff. These 2 changes will make.

I stumbled on something on the dummy. Who knows, maybe this is what everyone does, if I simply hold down the hvy attk trigger the whole fight, stam sustain is no problem ( I'm a kahjiit ) where as before I was CONSTANTLY out, even with weaving in hvy attk. It's possible hvy attk is going through but with animation cancelling?

Third I want to thank you guys for the help with the in depth, lengthy responses. I really appreciate it. I'm an older player ( 47 ), well, older than the majority i would think ( no idea your ages, sorry if i offend ), and try to strive for perfection.

Asardes

If you are lucky heavy attack auto-releases as it should but sometimes it sticks. That's why I recommend releasing the attack button and pressing again for the next heavy attack. Generally is good to weave a heavy attack with every skill on 2W bar - bound armaments buffs their damage - and light ones between the skills on the bow bar for free damage and Hawk Eye passive. To weave heavy just press the skill button in the middle of the heavy attack animation and for light pinch the attack button right before the skill one.