Expert Mage Passive Bugged

Anazasi · November 2017

Expert Mage Sorcerer passive is suppose to give 2% damage increase for each ability slotted.It seems that it's only giving 1% bonus. Can anyone else confirm this.

SodanTok · November 2017

Ok I believe I found what you mean but I dont know for sure if that is how it always was or not, but basically the passive increases just damage of your weapon, not damage from sets/glyphs

For example Fighters Guild passive boosts every source of weapon damage.

//edit:
If I go out on limb and say based on what makes sense and what uesp build editor shows, this is not intended behavior and is indeed a bug.

Reorx_Holybeard · November 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Ok I believe I found what you mean but I dont know for sure if that is how it always was or not, but basically the passive increases just damage of your weapon, not damage from sets/glyphs

For example Fighters Guild passive boosts every source of weapon damage.

//edit:
If I go out on limb and say based on what makes sense and what uesp build editor shows, this is not intended behavior and is indeed a bug.

Yes, I can confirm that on PTS (and assumably Live) the Sorcerer's Expert Mage passive only applies to the weapon and not to any bonuses from armor. I assume this is a bug until otherwise confirmed....@ZOS_GinaBruno

Edit: I tested it on PTS using the Rattlecage set. With just a weapon the passive works fine and gives +2% per skill slotted. When the 2nd/3rd bonus from Rattlecage is active, however, these bonuses are not multiplied by the +2%/skill bonus.

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

Interesting, does this mean that it is currently multiplicative with major and minor sorcery? I believe it used to be additive, so if you had 5 sorc skills with major sorcery you got a 1.30 multiplier on you spell damage. If it's calculating the passive in the weapon damage, it's probably working more like Nirnhoned, which ignores enchants and set bonuses, but does get the example 10% multiplied by 1.2 (Maj sorc) for a 1.32 multiplier on the damage from your weapon (not nearly enough to make up for the loss of sets and glyphs, but still 2% more than the additive stacking).

SodanTok · November 2017

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Interesting, does this mean that it is currently multiplicative with major and minor sorcery? I believe it used to be additive, so if you had 5 sorc skills with major sorcery you got a 1.30 multiplier on you spell damage. If it's calculating the passive in the weapon damage, it's probably working more like Nirnhoned, which ignores enchants and set bonuses, but does get the example 10% multiplied by 1.2 (Maj sorc) for a 1.32 multiplier on the damage from your weapon (not nearly enough to make up for the loss of sets and glyphs, but still 2% more than the additive stacking).

You are correct in that it is currently multiplicative like nirn is. And that it is not enough to make up for the overall loss (compared to old way). Unless you are sorc tank maybe, because any common 2 sources of damage (like 2 glyphs, or 2 set bonuses of 129 damage) make the current passive worse than the old.
ok, this is slightly incorrect, because with more passives (like agility or minor sorc/brut) the new passive is slightly less worse. In any case, you would need like 60% wp/spell damage (if theoretically even possible) increase to get same value as old passive on just common setup of 3 glyphs and mundus (without divines)

RANKK7 · November 2017

It would be nice to hear from ZOS about this, it really seems it's only giving 1%.

ZOS_GinaBruno · November 2017

To be clear, the tooltip for the ability states that it increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by X% for each Sorc ability slotted. This is the stats Weapon Damage and Spell Damage, not damage done. Does that help?

casparian · November 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the tooltip for the ability states that it increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by X% for each Sorc ability slotted. This is the stats Weapon Damage and Spell Damage, not damage done. Does that help?

@ZOS_GinaBruno no, that's not what people are saying here. The issue is that the tooltip says the passive increases your Weapon and Spell damage, but the passive is not directly increasing that total value (i.e., the values listed under Weapon Damage and Spell Damage on your character sheet). Instead, it is increasing the damage number of your equipped weapon (i.e., the number beside "Damage" on your weapon's tooltip).

So for instance, if I have 3000 spell damage from the gear I'm wearing (and glyph procs, other passives, etc.), the tooltip leads us to believe that Expert Mage would increase that number by 3%. But it doesn't do that. Instead, it increases the damage rating of our equipped weapon by 3% (which of course does have an indirect effect on our total spell/weapon damage).

Zer0oo · November 2017

casparian wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the tooltip for the ability states that it increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by X% for each Sorc ability slotted. This is the stats Weapon Damage and Spell Damage, not damage done. Does that help?

@ZOS_GinaBruno no, that's not what people are saying here. The issue is that the tooltip says the passive increases your Weapon and Spell damage, but the passive is not directly increasing that total value (i.e., the values listed under Weapon Damage and Spell Damage on your character sheet). Instead, it is increasing the damage number of your equipped weapon (i.e., the number beside "Damage" on your weapon's tooltip).

So for instance, if I have 3000 spell damage from the gear I'm wearing (and glyph procs, other passives, etc.), the tooltip leads us to believe that Expert Mage would increase that number by 3%. But it doesn't do that. Instead, it increases the damage rating of our equipped weapon by 3% (which of course does have an indirect effect on our total spell/weapon damage).

The nb passive Master Assassin seems to work the same way and only increases the base spell damage of the weapon you have and not of all set values/enchants. Would be interesting if the templer passive does the same.

Btw Is it a bug that the mage mundus and Necropotence 5-piece seem not to get the 20% increase from having max cp?

SodanTok · November 2017

Zer0oo wrote: »

show previous quotes

casparian wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the tooltip for the ability states that it increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by X% for each Sorc ability slotted. This is the stats Weapon Damage and Spell Damage, not damage done. Does that help?

@ZOS_GinaBruno no, that's not what people are saying here. The issue is that the tooltip says the passive increases your Weapon and Spell damage, but the passive is not directly increasing that total value (i.e., the values listed under Weapon Damage and Spell Damage on your character sheet). Instead, it is increasing the damage number of your equipped weapon (i.e., the number beside "Damage" on your weapon's tooltip).

So for instance, if I have 3000 spell damage from the gear I'm wearing (and glyph procs, other passives, etc.), the tooltip leads us to believe that Expert Mage would increase that number by 3%. But it doesn't do that. Instead, it increases the damage rating of our equipped weapon by 3% (which of course does have an indirect effect on our total spell/weapon damage).

The nb passive Master Assassin seems to work the same way and only increases the base spell damage of the weapon you have and not of all set values/enchants. Would be interesting if the templer passive does the same.

Btw Is it a bug that the mage mundus and Necropotence 5-piece seem not to get the 20% increase from having max cp?

That last part is not bug, or at least it was always like this

Reorx_Holybeard · November 2017

Zer0oo wrote: »

show previous quotes

casparian wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the tooltip for the ability states that it increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by X% for each Sorc ability slotted. This is the stats Weapon Damage and Spell Damage, not damage done. Does that help?

@ZOS_GinaBruno no, that's not what people are saying here. The issue is that the tooltip says the passive increases your Weapon and Spell damage, but the passive is not directly increasing that total value (i.e., the values listed under Weapon Damage and Spell Damage on your character sheet). Instead, it is increasing the damage number of your equipped weapon (i.e., the number beside "Damage" on your weapon's tooltip).

So for instance, if I have 3000 spell damage from the gear I'm wearing (and glyph procs, other passives, etc.), the tooltip leads us to believe that Expert Mage would increase that number by 3%. But it doesn't do that. Instead, it increases the damage rating of our equipped weapon by 3% (which of course does have an indirect effect on our total spell/weapon damage).

The nb passive Master Assassin seems to work the same way and only increases the base spell damage of the weapon you have and not of all set values/enchants. Would be interesting if the templer passive does the same.

Btw Is it a bug that the mage mundus and Necropotence 5-piece seem not to get the 20% increase from having max cp?

This is (unfortunately) on purpose. The basic formula for Magicka is:

Magicka = ((Base + Attribute + Item)*CP + Food + Mundus + Necromancer)*(Skill + Buff)

So the bonus from Food, Mundus, and Necromance are not affected by the CP bonus. This was changed sometime around the One Tamriel update.

Note that you can always use our Build Editor to see game formulas like this and play around with them.

Reorx_Holybeard · November 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the tooltip for the ability states that it increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by X% for each Sorc ability slotted. This is the stats Weapon Damage and Spell Damage, not damage done. Does that help?

No, that's not the issue people are talking about here. Here is what's happening in game at the moment with a couple of clear examples. Let's assume you have one Sorcerer skill slotted so the expected bonus is 2%.

You equip just one weapon with 1000 damage and nothing else. Your displayed Spell/Weapon Damage is now 1020 as expected.
You equip just one ring with a spell damage enchant of 150 and nothing else. Your displayed Spell Damage is now 150 instead of 153 as expected.
You equip 3 pieces of Elf Bane which has 2 set bonus of 150 Spell Damage (total of 300) and nothing else. Your displayed Spell Damage is now 300 instead of 306 as expected.

Hopefully those examples illustrate that The Expert Mage passive is only increasing weapon/spell damage from weapons and not from armor/jewelry (I haven't tested set bonus on DW weapons).

Now is a good time to suggest changing the character sheet stats from "Spell Damage" to "Spell Power" in order to prevent this sort of confusion. I mean, it's not a good sign when even the devs get confused between "Spell Damage" character stat and "spell damage" as done by spells...;)

ZOS_GinaBruno · November 2017

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification everyone! We're taking a closer look at this.

Zer0oo · November 2017

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »
show previous quotes

Zer0oo wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the tooltip for the ability states that it increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by X% for each Sorc ability slotted. This is the stats Weapon Damage and Spell Damage, not damage done. Does that help?

@ZOS_GinaBruno no, that's not what people are saying here. The issue is that the tooltip says the passive increases your Weapon and Spell damage, but the passive is not directly increasing that total value (i.e., the values listed under Weapon Damage and Spell Damage on your character sheet). Instead, it is increasing the damage number of your equipped weapon (i.e., the number beside "Damage" on your weapon's tooltip).

So for instance, if I have 3000 spell damage from the gear I'm wearing (and glyph procs, other passives, etc.), the tooltip leads us to believe that Expert Mage would increase that number by 3%. But it doesn't do that. Instead, it increases the damage rating of our equipped weapon by 3% (which of course does have an indirect effect on our total spell/weapon damage).

The nb passive Master Assassin seems to work the same way and only increases the base spell damage of the weapon you have and not of all set values/enchants. Would be interesting if the templer passive does the same.

Btw Is it a bug that the mage mundus and Necropotence 5-piece seem not to get the 20% increase from having max cp?

This is (unfortunately) on purpose. The basic formula for Magicka is:
Magicka = ((Base + Attribute + Item)*CP + Food + Mundus + Necromancer)*(Skill + Buff)
So the bonus from Food, Mundus, and Necromance are not affected by the CP bonus. This was changed sometime around the One Tamriel update.

Note that you can always use our Build Editor to see game formulas like this and play around with them.

I just wanted to know if it is intended or not.

It seems just kinda weird and arbitrary that one set bonus does not get affected. And to what other 5th piece sets does it not apply? Draugr Hulk, Plague Doctor, Destruction Mastery?

Btw i really like your build editor

Reorx_Holybeard · November 2017

Zer0oo wrote: »

I just wanted to know if it is intended or not.

It seems just kinda weird and arbitrary that one set bonus does not get affected. And to what other 5th piece sets does it not apply? Draugr Hulk, Plague Doctor, Destruction Mastery?

Btw i really like your build editor

Thanks! We try hard to keep it as up to date and accurate as possible which is not an easy task.

As far as I know Necropotence is the only set that works that way although we haven't tested any of the other sets recently. Either it has to do with how the set is activated (although Destruction Mastery works similarly) or due to the larger bonus with
Necropotence.

If I recall things correctly the Necropotence 5 piece bonus was, at one point, affected by the CP bonus. It was then changed and then later the flat bonus reduced further. As for any more explanation as to why you'd have to ask the devs.

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »
show previous quotes

Zer0oo wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the tooltip for the ability states that it increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by X% for each Sorc ability slotted. This is the stats Weapon Damage and Spell Damage, not damage done. Does that help?

@ZOS_GinaBruno no, that's not what people are saying here. The issue is that the tooltip says the passive increases your Weapon and Spell damage, but the passive is not directly increasing that total value (i.e., the values listed under Weapon Damage and Spell Damage on your character sheet). Instead, it is increasing the damage number of your equipped weapon (i.e., the number beside "Damage" on your weapon's tooltip).

So for instance, if I have 3000 spell damage from the gear I'm wearing (and glyph procs, other passives, etc.), the tooltip leads us to believe that Expert Mage would increase that number by 3%. But it doesn't do that. Instead, it increases the damage rating of our equipped weapon by 3% (which of course does have an indirect effect on our total spell/weapon damage).

The nb passive Master Assassin seems to work the same way and only increases the base spell damage of the weapon you have and not of all set values/enchants. Would be interesting if the templer passive does the same.

Btw Is it a bug that the mage mundus and Necropotence 5-piece seem not to get the 20% increase from having max cp?

This is (unfortunately) on purpose. The basic formula for Magicka is:
Magicka = ((Base + Attribute + Item)*CP + Food + Mundus + Necromancer)*(Skill + Buff)
So the bonus from Food, Mundus, and Necromance are not affected by the CP bonus. This was changed sometime around the One Tamriel update.

Note that you can always use our Build Editor to see game formulas like this and play around with them.

Still seems like it could be a bug. Why would the 5 piece bonus on destruction mastery and Necropotence be treated differently (20% weaker) than any of the 2-4 piece set bonuses.

Also for the Mage stone, it seems like it would be more balanced with apprentice if it received the 20% CP multiplier. That would make Mage slightly better for classes with an 8% Magicka bonus, with inner light 7%, and undaunted 6%, whole Warhorn 10% is active. As it stands now Apprentice is pretty much always better.

Anazasi · November 2017

To clarify this for everyone using an example already used. If i have a weapon and the damage is 1000. I slot 6 sorc abilities thats 12% increase to the weapon. It should now be 1120. Currently if i slot 6 sorc abilities and use the same weapon it only goes up 60pts or 1060. Is this what everyone else actually seeing?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2017

Anazasi wrote: »

To clarify this for everyone using an example already used. If i have a weapon and the damage is 1000. I slot 6 sorc abilities thats 12% increase to the weapon. It should now be 1120. Currently if i slot 6 sorc abilities and use the same weapon it only goes up 60pts or 1060. Is this what everyone else actually seeing?

Not sure about the 1% increase on the weapons actual damage, ie the 1335 base of a staff but I can confirm that the 129 spell damage of a set bonus is not getting the percentage bonus at all. Please fix this.

From some calculations I just did, I also now believe the passive is not increasing spell damage enchants on my jewelry.

Overall Spell damage on stats sheet with 3 sorc skills- 1937

3x174 enchants on jewelry- 522

Gold cp160 staff- 1335

1335+522= 1857

1937-1857= 80 which is 6% of only 1335ish.

So it appears I am getting the full 2% per skill on the base staff spell Damage but zero benefit from any more. Please fix. I just switched from necro to destruction mastery and my spell Damage only goes up by the 129 in the set.

I am missing out on 40 base spell damage, I would have 2105 spell damage if the passive worked as it is worded, instead of 2066 I have. Might not seem like a big deal but if this is a bug, it would be nice to get it fixed.

SodanTok · November 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Anazasi wrote: »

To clarify this for everyone using an example already used. If i have a weapon and the damage is 1000. I slot 6 sorc abilities thats 12% increase to the weapon. It should now be 1120. Currently if i slot 6 sorc abilities and use the same weapon it only goes up 60pts or 1060. Is this what everyone else actually seeing?

Not sure about the 1% increase on the weapons actual damage, ie the 1335 base of a staff but I can confirm that the 129 spell damage of a set bonus is not getting the percentage bonus at all. Please fix this.

From some calculations I just did, I also now believe the passive is not increasing spell damage enchants on my jewelry.

Overall Spell damage on stats sheet with 3 sorc skills- 1937

3x174 enchants on jewelry- 522

Gold cp160 staff- 1335

1335+522= 1857

1937-1857= 80 which is 6% of only 1335ish.

So it appears I am getting the full 2% per skill on the base staff spell Damage but zero benefit from any more. Please fix. I just switched from necro to destruction mastery and my spell Damage only goes up by the 129 in the set.

I am missing out on 40 base spell damage, I would have 2105 spell damage if the passive worked as it is worded, instead of 2066 I have. Might not seem like a big deal but if this is a bug, it would be nice to get it fixed.

Yes, because current calculations is (bugged or intended)

((Damage of weapon * Expert Mage Passive) + Mundus damage + Set damage + glyph damage) * other passives and brutality

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

To clarify this for everyone using an example already used. If i have a weapon and the damage is 1000. I slot 6 sorc abilities thats 12% increase to the weapon. It should now be 1120. Currently if i slot 6 sorc abilities and use the same weapon it only goes up 60pts or 1060. Is this what everyone else actually seeing?

Not sure about the 1% increase on the weapons actual damage, ie the 1335 base of a staff but I can confirm that the 129 spell damage of a set bonus is not getting the percentage bonus at all. Please fix this.

From some calculations I just did, I also now believe the passive is not increasing spell damage enchants on my jewelry.

Overall Spell damage on stats sheet with 3 sorc skills- 1937

3x174 enchants on jewelry- 522

Gold cp160 staff- 1335

1335+522= 1857

1937-1857= 80 which is 6% of only 1335ish.

So it appears I am getting the full 2% per skill on the base staff spell Damage but zero benefit from any more. Please fix. I just switched from necro to destruction mastery and my spell Damage only goes up by the 129 in the set.

I am missing out on 40 base spell damage, I would have 2105 spell damage if the passive worked as it is worded, instead of 2066 I have. Might not seem like a big deal but if this is a bug, it would be nice to get it fixed.

Yes, because current calculations is (bugged or intended)

((Damage of weapon * Expert Mage Passive) + Mundus damage + Set damage + glyph damage) * other passives and brutality

I am aware and can see that is how it works, I want it to work so I get the spell damage that is implyed it or they need to rephrase the passive.

Blevil · November 2017

It has the same bug on PS4, seems I have about ~100 less spell damage due to expert mage only giving 1% instead of the 2% in the description.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · December 2017

Any update on this?

Vaoh · December 2017

This is actually a thing!

I never even knew.

Any fix planned or....

Anazasi · December 2017

no word yet

Mystrius_Archaion · December 2017

Anazasi wrote: »

no word yet

There is word above. There just isn't a fix yet, unless they snuck it in or forgot to patch note it. Anybody tested lately?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · December 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

show previous quotes

Anazasi wrote: »

no word yet

There is word above. There just isn't a fix yet, unless they snuck it in or forgot to patch note it. Anybody tested lately?

I have the same spell Damage that I had in the post I have up there, still missing 40 spell damage.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

this has been fixed, as of dragonbones, the passive gives the full 2% for all sources of spell damage now. thank you.