What is Good DPS?

Ectheliontnacil

What I don't like about the game is the fact that it takes ages to actually understand the combat system. For instance there's no explanations as to how max magicka, spell dmg and penetration affect your damage. Only recently did they add the skill advisor and basic dmg scaling advice in the stat sheet (which is still vague).

When I first started playing the game, I had no clue that spelldmgx10 generates the same dmg output as the same magicka value. For very long I didn't have the slightest idea what kind of a penetration value I should aim for and I didn't know that NPCs could have very different resistance values.

All these things prevented me from crafting my own viable builds for a very long time. If there were a better system in place, detailing all the contributing factors to dps, those 7k dps-random-queue-pugs would not exist!

Cp optimisation and determining the BiS set for a given setup is very easy, assuming you are able to do basic calculations.

People who revere Gilliamtherogue and other theorycrafters for performing high-school mathmatics simply don't understand the combat system. There's few sources on this and that's why a lot of players don't put in any effort and run premade setups or pull 7k dps .

I cannot repeat this enough, you don't need a degree in mathematics to theorycraft an amazing setup. What's required mostly is a grasp of probabilities, statistics etc. and you're ready to post your own trial setups.

But ZOS won't explain tbe combat system to new players! I don't know why they refuse to do so. The skill adviser is oversimplified to such an extent that I useless and very patronising! I really hope they will release a proper guide on this in the near futute (for adults and not for 3 year olds). So far they've lain this burden on others, content creators are the only ones who put the information out there for newer players. Sadly this information is not always correct or outdated which leads to newer players having a very rough start into end game content.

Runefang

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

What I don't like about the game is the fact that it takes ages to actually understand the combat system. For instance there's no explanations as to how max magicka, spell dmg and penetration affect your damage. Only recently did they add the skill advisor and basic dmg scaling advice in the stat sheet (which is still vague).

When I first started playing the game, I had no clue that spelldmgx10 generates the same dmg output as the same magicka value. For very long I didn't have the slightest idea what kind of a penetration value I should aim for and I didn't know that NPCs could have very different resistance values.

All these things prevented me from crafting my own viable builds for a very long time. If there were a better system in place, detailing all the contributing factors to dps, those 7k dps-random-queue-pugs would not exist!

Cp optimisation and determining the BiS set for a given setup is very easy, assuming you are able to do basic calculations.

People who revere Gilliamtherogue and other theorycrafters for performing high-school mathmatics simply don't understand the combat system. There's few sources on this and that's why a lot of players don't put in any effort and run premade setups or pull 7k dps .

I cannot repeat this enough, you don't need a degree in mathematics to theorycraft an amazing setup. What's required mostly is a grasp of probabilities, statistics etc. and you're ready to post your own trial setups.

But ZOS won't explain tbe combat system to new players! I don't know why they refuse to do so. The skill adviser is oversimplified to such an extent that I useless and very patronising! I really hope they will release a proper guide on this in the near futute (for adults and not for 3 year olds). So far they've lain this burden on others, content creators are the only ones who put the information out there for newer players. Sadly this information is not always correct or outdated which leads to newer players having a very rough start into end game content.

Why would they explain it? Most of the game is stupidly easy if you know what to do. Stupidly easy = boring. So they don't want most people to pull high dps.

Also most people dont care, their toughest enemies are drove bosses.

nbksaske

On my pet magsorc (CP cap all gold gear) I get 30k self buffed with apprentice Mundus and ele drain, is it the best? Probably not, but I get through most content fine

Massive_Stain

I hit 35k to 40+k solo and 50-60k group buffed. Rotation and set up is everything.

Zhaedri

I must be absolute trash. Whatever I do, I can't seem to get above 10k. I'm not in any pve guilds either, and too anxious to join one as I would likely just get laughed at for my patheticness.

Massive_Stain

Mister_DMC wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

All you DPS elite people. here. Would you kick me for running a build like this.

http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/23251/
x2 Slimecraw
x5 Medusa
x5 Mechanical Acuity

I have around 470 CP.

I do not like to make builds that 90% of all others use. But I like to be able to do some content later on and not just put the game away.

1) Winter's Revenge scales off maximum magicka so it will do negligible DPS on a stamina character; it's pretty weak even on magicka Warden, and it's one of the main reason it's so weak in PvE, since most DPS there is from ground based DoTs
2) Arctic blast scales on your health and does magicka damage, so it won't hit very hard and won't benefit from CP allocation into Mighty and Precise Strikes. If you need a burst heal you'll better use Soothing Spores, at least until you unlock vigor since those will scale off your maximum stamina and weapon damage.
3) Camouflaged Hunter on your front bar is redundant since you get the same buff, Major Savagery from Green Lotus, and buffs of the same type don't stack
4) You can run Rearming Trap instead of any of those 3 redundant and ineffective skills, thus gaining Minor Force from that instead; it also buffs your damage from skill line passive: Slayer - 3% weapon damage for each Fighters Guild skill slotted. Thus you wouldn't need Meduse, and you could run a pure stamina damage and/or sustain set instead
5) Medusa comes with maximum magicka, spell damage and maximum health bonuses, which aren't very effective on a stamina build, since most of your skills will scale off maximum stamina and weapon damage. It also comes with healthy jewelry only which will further gimp your stats. Also, the 5th piece bonus becomes redundant if you run Rearming Trap
6) Rapid Strikes/Blood Thirst is very bad as single target spammable, since it's expensive compared to the damage it does; in the past people ran that skill in that rotation simply to empower their DoTs trough Maelstrom weapons special effect. Shrouded Daggers (AoE) and Cutting Dive (single target) are much better skills to fill that slot
7) There's absolutely no reason to run Warhorn on a DD since that skill has fixed buffs that don't scale of your stats. You are better off using a DPS skill like Ballista or Wild Guardian (you have to double bar it)

Overall that build is utterly ineffective at sustaining, survival and pulling damage so it will get you kicked quite fast from any dungeon if I'm leading the group.

And this is what I'm talking about, they likely have no idea about any of the suggestions you just made due to a lack of available information. Most people do not understand that obtaining buffs are available in a variety of ways and they DO NOT STACK.

Lmao and this is why I skip the spell critical part of essence of spell power pots on my magblade, because I double bar inner light.

Massive_Stain

Zhaedri wrote: »

I must be absolute trash. Whatever I do, I can't seem to get above 10k. I'm not in any pve guilds either, and too anxious to join one as I would likely just get laughed at for my patheticness.

actually, joining a pve guild might help you tbh. And honestly, if you're new and only hitting 10k you may be using incorrect skills. There's a big disparity between pve BiS skills and PvP skills. Most classes have static bar setups that dont really change in pve. And a lot of people line up their bars in order of use.

Some things to consider as well: is your alchemys medicinal use fully leveled? Are you running weapon pots (stam) spell power pots (mag)? Are you dropping damage over time on back bar and direct damage attacks on front bar? And if so, are you letting you dots run out?

Do you enchant your jewelry with weapon/spell power glyphs? Are you using beserker enchants on back bar bow or staff? If stam, are you using poisons?

Ajintse

jakeedmundson wrote: »

That 50-60k number you hear from some people is complete BS.

absolute 100% top tier SUSTAINABLE dps on a dummy is around 40k (give or take a few thousand, maybe up to 45k)

The people that can hit 50k+ on the dummy are using cheat setups to fabricate dummy parses. which, yeah its awesome to see those numbers but... they don't do any vet trials with those builds. Not saying they can't HIT those numbers IN a trial. Just that they don't spec the same way when they do trials.

Plain and simple numbers, if you're at or above 25k dps... you can do pretty much everything in the game (some obvious exceptions like vMOL or vHOF)

"Plain and simple numbers, if you're at or above 25k dps... you can do pretty much everything in the game (some obvious exceptions like vMOL or vHOF)"

Pardon me, I never understood the DPS or Damage in ESO. I just simply look at those numbers of my DMG Spells.
But, you are saying: If you're at or above 25k DPS... How do I see if I do 25k or not? I mean, for example: I use 1x Funnel Health with some buffs and debuffs and I hit for 18k. Is that what you mean? 1 skill hit?

But before Horns of the Reach patch, I did hit 24k per skill "Funnel Health" or Heavy Attack.

Sorry for my noobness.

GreenhaloX

Good dps is rotating through all your direct, DoT, and AOE skills and not just spamming light attack or a single skill attack over and over again.

paulychan

I roll a magsorc for my dps build. I main a healer, second a tank. What I have learned, as a noob, is that the dummy parses can be misleading. Have run as a tank with 720 cp dps that claim 40+ dps And can’t take down a boss any faster than the fellow noob I rolled with in the last dungeon. The dummy doesn’t move or do damage. It makes pet builds seem top tier when imo they don’t seem to be. I killed my pet and created a non pet build that does less dps on the dummy but performs better in use.
Just my 2 cents. Parses are misleading

Khivas_Carrick

Imza wrote: »

Weaving light attacks on the back bar is at most 10% of your DPS, but it's also more difficult. For example I always get stuck in caltrops and miss a weave there. Without weaving at least 2-3 heavy attacks on the front is pretty hard to sustain any kind of rotation on a stamina character, and it's pretty easy to pull since you have a ~400ms window to press that skill button while you charge the heavy attack; light attack window is probably ~100-150 ms. On stamina sorcerer you even have a bonus to heavy attacks from your Bound Armaments so there's no reason to not weave them.

^^ is BS @Asardes

Now add 250 ping EACH WAY

I have the Alcast Summoner build and I am unable to hit 20k DPS

I am unable to weave or animation cancel successfully every time - sometimes it works - sometimes it doesn't...

Ping is the enemy of DPS

.

I feel a spiritual connection to this post lol

Anotherone773

paulychan wrote: »

I roll a magsorc for my dps build. I main a healer, second a tank. What I have learned, as a noob, is that the dummy parses can be misleading. Have run as a tank with 720 cp dps that claim 40+ dps And can’t take down a boss any faster than the fellow noob I rolled with in the last dungeon. The dummy doesn’t move or do damage. It makes pet builds seem top tier when imo they don’t seem to be. I killed my pet and created a non pet build that does less dps on the dummy but performs better in use.
Just my 2 cents. Parses are misleading

Yes they are. Honestly this is the only game that i can remember playing in which people took things like parses and theory crafting like the bible and worshiped elitists like they were gods. Normally, we just laugh and then ignore them, which is what i still do.

Waffennacht

Massive_Stain wrote: »

Zhaedri wrote: »

I must be absolute trash. Whatever I do, I can't seem to get above 10k. I'm not in any pve guilds either, and too anxious to join one as I would likely just get laughed at for my patheticness.

actually, joining a pve guild might help you tbh. And honestly, if you're new and only hitting 10k you may be using incorrect skills. There's a big disparity between pve BiS skills and PvP skills. Most classes have static bar setups that dont really change in pve. And a lot of people line up their bars in order of use.

Some things to consider as well: is your alchemys medicinal use fully leveled? Are you running weapon pots (stam) spell power pots (mag)? Are you dropping damage over time on back bar and direct damage attacks on front bar? And if so, are you letting you dots run out?

Do you enchant your jewelry with weapon/spell power glyphs? Are you using beserker enchants on back bar bow or staff? If stam, are you using poisons?

Ohhh @#$& I forgot all about medical passive on my alts.... Ty!

adeptusminor

Ajintse wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

That 50-60k number you hear from some people is complete BS.

absolute 100% top tier SUSTAINABLE dps on a dummy is around 40k (give or take a few thousand, maybe up to 45k)

The people that can hit 50k+ on the dummy are using cheat setups to fabricate dummy parses. which, yeah its awesome to see those numbers but... they don't do any vet trials with those builds. Not saying they can't HIT those numbers IN a trial. Just that they don't spec the same way when they do trials.

Plain and simple numbers, if you're at or above 25k dps... you can do pretty much everything in the game (some obvious exceptions like vMOL or vHOF)

"Plain and simple numbers, if you're at or above 25k dps... you can do pretty much everything in the game (some obvious exceptions like vMOL or vHOF)"

Pardon me, I never understood the DPS or Damage in ESO. I just simply look at those numbers of my DMG Spells.
But, you are saying: If you're at or above 25k DPS... How do I see if I do 25k or not? I mean, for example: I use 1x Funnel Health with some buffs and debuffs and I hit for 18k. Is that what you mean? 1 skill hit?

But before Horns of the Reach patch, I did hit 24k per skill "Funnel Health" or Heavy Attack.

Sorry for my noobness.

The addon "Combat Metrics" will show you your dps. I recommend binding a key to the detailed dps screen, it will show you uptimes of your AOEs and breaks down each skill's damage. Here's is an example screenshot:

When people talk about DPS, it's in a sustained sense (either 3million combat dummy or the 6 million), and on a single target. The 3 million dummy is considered by some to still be considered burst dps, since if you are at 35k+ dps the fight is only 75-95 seconds long.

adeptusminor

Ajintse wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

That 50-60k number you hear from some people is complete BS.

absolute 100% top tier SUSTAINABLE dps on a dummy is around 40k (give or take a few thousand, maybe up to 45k)

The people that can hit 50k+ on the dummy are using cheat setups to fabricate dummy parses. which, yeah its awesome to see those numbers but... they don't do any vet trials with those builds. Not saying they can't HIT those numbers IN a trial. Just that they don't spec the same way when they do trials.

Plain and simple numbers, if you're at or above 25k dps... you can do pretty much everything in the game (some obvious exceptions like vMOL or vHOF)

"Plain and simple numbers, if you're at or above 25k dps... you can do pretty much everything in the game (some obvious exceptions like vMOL or vHOF)"

Pardon me, I never understood the DPS or Damage in ESO. I just simply look at those numbers of my DMG Spells.
But, you are saying: If you're at or above 25k DPS... How do I see if I do 25k or not? I mean, for example: I use 1x Funnel Health with some buffs and debuffs and I hit for 18k. Is that what you mean? 1 skill hit?

But before Horns of the Reach patch, I did hit 24k per skill "Funnel Health" or Heavy Attack.

Sorry for my noobness.

The addon "Combat Metrics" will show you your dps. I recommend binding a key to the detailed dps screen, it will show you uptimes of your AOEs and breaks down each skill's damage.

When people talk about DPS, it's in a sustained sense (either 3million combat dummy or the 6 million), and on a single target. The 3 million dummy is considered by some to still be considered burst dps, since if you are at 35k+ dps the fight is only ~75-85 seconds long.

CurlyQTip

I find DPS frustrating because I can DPS any delve and public dungeon like nothing with decent gear and still not be good enough for vet

meanwhile healer has more options for abilities and more options for gear if they want vet content

imnotanother

Need some feedback.
Been working on a new rotation on my StamBlade and only pulling 23k. (Solo)
My gear is not BiS so I am trying to git gud so I can farm a set of War Machine.

Rotation is Relentless Focus, Leeching Strikes, Deadly Cloak, then Rearming Trap, LA, Endless Hail, La, poison injection, la, razor caltrops, Incap, bar swap, tending slashes, relentless focus bow, HA, surprise attack, HA, surprise attack, LA...then repeat.

Using a Maelstrom bow with nirnhoned. My animation cancelling is terrible.

Any tips to improve besides gear?

Sparr0w

imnotanother wrote: »

Need some feedback.
Been working on a new rotation on my StamBlade and only pulling 23k. (Solo)
My gear is not BiS so I am trying to git gud so I can farm a set of War Machine.

Rotation is Relentless Focus, Leeching Strikes, Deadly Cloak, then Rearming Trap, LA, Endless Hail, La, poison injection, la, razor caltrops, Incap, bar swap, tending slashes, relentless focus bow, HA, surprise attack, HA, surprise attack, LA...then repeat.

Using a Maelstrom bow with nirnhoned. My animation cancelling is terrible.

Any tips to improve besides gear?

Just keep smashing that attack button to ensure you're weaving every attack, for the HA part don't let go of the attack button, should resume HA as soon as the skill is finished.

Bar swap after skills not LA/HA as it's not as efficient.

Try moving Relentless Focus to the front bar for a few parses to see if that's better, should be hitting 2-3 every cast.

Are you using potions for the buffs (weapon power pots?) this will add quite a bit to DPS.

imnotanother

Sparr0w wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Need some feedback.
Been working on a new rotation on my StamBlade and only pulling 23k. (Solo)
My gear is not BiS so I am trying to git gud so I can farm a set of War Machine.

Rotation is Relentless Focus, Leeching Strikes, Deadly Cloak, then Rearming Trap, LA, Endless Hail, La, poison injection, la, razor caltrops, Incap, bar swap, tending slashes, relentless focus bow, HA, surprise attack, HA, surprise attack, LA...then repeat.

Using a Maelstrom bow with nirnhoned. My animation cancelling is terrible.

Any tips to improve besides gear?

Just keep smashing that attack button to ensure you're weaving every attack, for the HA part don't let go of the attack button, should resume HA as soon as the skill is finished.

Bar swap after skills not LA/HA as it's not as efficient.

Try moving Relentless Focus to the front bar for a few parses to see if that's better, should be hitting 2-3 every cast.

Are you using potions for the buffs (weapon power pots?) this will add quite a bit to DPS.

I am running weapon power Potions.
My sustain doesn’t seem to be an issue either but I do feel like I could improve with my LA/HA timing.
I am using a 6 mil test dummy if that makes any difference.
Could switch to Lover from Warrior Mundus help?

Ananoriel

I've been reading this thread yesterday and I am 'new' to the endgame content. I have a CP of 264, but my dps is around 12-15k if I try my best a lot. Do you get those high amounts of damage with higher CP levels or doesn't it matter?

JinMori

file:///C:/Users/User/Documents/Elder%20Scrolls%20Online/pts/Screenshots/Screenshot_20180419_035034.png

Managed to get this on stamblade self buffed with hunding, twice fanged and velidreth and maelstom bow. max i got on it was 44k, but i did not screenshot it, was practicing rotation.

carljokl

I would surmise my characters are underpowered. Even on my main, who is a Magic Sorcerer I have seen crystal fragments slip down from 15/20K per hit towards 10k per even though I haven't changed my spec or gear. I don't know if it is nerfs each time the champion point ceiling is increased. Still I am being told I should be ideally doing about 30K damage a hit. It hasn't really been holding me back as I haven't done trials in quite a while anyway.

There seem to be so many variables to manage in order to achieve good DPS.

Khivas_Carrick

I average out around 20k dps as a 2H/Bow Stamplar. I like to think I'm decent enough, especially since a lot of fights I'm ressing the DPS that didn't move lol

That's said I learned a lot reading thru all of this, and I bumped my dps up a little today with a little CP tweaking, so ty all who posted knowledge

Asardes

I think I will pull my Mag DK from the mothballs next patch. What I have in mind is:
2 Zaan
5 Burning Spellweave
5 Infallible Mage jewels and Inferno front bar
Maelstrom Inferno or Lightning back bar

Inferno HA is just one tick so it will get fully buffed by IA, also it will be buffed by Maelstrom blockade and Molten Armaments, Engulfing Flames and possibly even the Flame blockade itself. I'm curious for how much it will hit.

The stamina DK will be re-purposed as tank so this may actually end up as my DPS character.

JinMori

Asardes wrote: »

I think I will pull my Mag DK from the mothballs next patch. What I have in mind is:
2 Zaan
5 Burning Spellweave
5 Infallible Mage jewels and Inferno front bar
Maelstrom Inferno or Lightning back bar

Inferno HA is just one tick so it will get fully buffed by IA, also it will be buffed by Maelstrom blockade and Molten Armaments, Engulfing Flames and possibly even the Flame blockade itself. I'm curious for how much it will hit.

The stamina DK will be re-purposed as tank so this may actually end up as my DPS character.

If you use maelstrom staff, and bsp, lightning is not an option.

Ign0rance

the players are not what is wrong with the game. Its that ZOS turned the game mechanics into a airplane ***. not a theme park. This game used to be fun, now its just a glorified scientific calculator.

But, thats none of my business.

carljokl

Ign0rance wrote: »

the players are not what is wrong with the game. Its that ZOS turned the game mechanics into a airplane ***. not a theme park. This game used to be fun, now its just a glorified scientific calculator.

But, thats none of my business.

I feel I can't keep in my head all the different sets in the game and every way every stat combines with every other one. In the end I have to rely on other people for advice.

gnarlyvandal

CurlyQTip wrote: »

I find DPS frustrating because I can DPS any delve and public dungeon like nothing with decent gear and still not be good enough for vet

meanwhile healer has more options for abilities and more options for gear if they want vet content

I know these feels. I’m consistently hitting 22k without using my ult now, with my ult average dps roughly 25k (after the ult, during the ult dps can be anywhere between 30k and 40k) and I’m still being told I don’t have enough dps for vet dungeons/trials.

So, I LIED about my dps to a vet group, saying I can easily hit 31k in all scenarios, despite being in cp400’s. They said my dps was still a bit low but they’ll ‘carry me’ through...

I got into said dungeon and was doing 60%(!!!!!!) of the groups damage (checked with combat metrics). This was consistent throughout, the lowest being around 45% of the groups damage on the 2nd boss.

Don’t listen to ppl saying you have to have over a certain dps, cause chances are they’re either BSing about their own dps or cannot in any way recreate the dummy parse in a real fight.

The better questions to ask yourself are; do I completely destroy nearly everything I face solo? (Even large groups of mobs), how often do I die?
If the answers to the questions are Yes and Not very often, get yourself into vet, cause you will be able to handle it

gnarlyvandal

carljokl wrote: »

Ign0rance wrote: »

the players are not what is wrong with the game. Its that ZOS turned the game mechanics into a airplane ***. not a theme park. This game used to be fun, now its just a glorified scientific calculator.

But, thats none of my business.

I feel I can't keep in my head all the different sets in the game and every way every stat combines with every other one. In the end I have to rely on other people for advice.

If you’re not doing the hardest of content, wear and use whatever skills and gear you like, ‘Best in slot’ is only necessary for the hardest content, the rest of the content is walk in the park for level 3’s so do what you want

qwyksylver

kylewwefan wrote: »

You don’t need to animation cancel. You need Ele Drain, the lover mundus, blue food better CP placement to reach penetration and likely still sharpened weapons if you don’t have enough CP. assuming you have proper pet Sorc gear and legendary gold weapons. Even a plain gold sharp lightning staff and willpower arcane jewelry w/Illambris. You can hit 20k. A simple rotation and destro ult.

If you are seriously parsing on a dummy DO NOT use lover mundus, blue food only if you're a stam otherwise use witchmothers or have fun sustaining