What is Good DPS?

kylewwefan

Hehe. Just let it die man. There’s a large number of players that truly believe animation canceling will magically make their DPS go from 15k to 30k.

I have a self imposed gimped the f out frost warden build. Play as I want but still gets 22k. That’s with Frosty Maelstrom and Lightning. It was 16k before some changes had to be made in order to get better. Can still easily do most Vet content.

Katahdin

ArpamiesFin wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

I've managed 18-22k on my stam blade at this point. Probably need to work more on not messing up on my rotation. Finding it difficult to push above that so far.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo_ALpGpjcs
5hunding,5automaton and 2veli.
stamblade dps is great, my rotation is not perfect and still over 30k

Thanks
Got some help from a guild mate to go over my build and rotation. Now just need to practice it and get the muscle memory down

Waffennacht

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

What is good DPS? If the enemy dies before you do, you're set.

You know that's not a thumbs up, it's a way to see if you will be caught in the fall out.

If you see a mushroom cloud, you put your thumb up like so, if the cloud is bigger than your thumb, you are within the fallout range.

That's why the game fall out uses it.

The more you know

Beodamacsa

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

I'm in the same boat with my pet sorc and have tried all sorts of gear even Necropotence combined with Jullianos and monster sets such as Ilambris and Skoria currently wearing spinners x5 weapons jewelry and hat with Kena shoulders and everything else Jullianos x5 and still I'm only hitting around 12-20k, when I hit 20k or above I am pretty sure its a burst dmg not sustained dmg. My CP is 449 and I am struggling to hit number that people in the same gear say it should be hitting. I feel like I must be doing something wrong somewhere I've used the same rotations and builds as Alcast, Dottz, Delitia's but still do not hit the numbers they say it should hit for?

Have you tested your dps on a target dummy? You're right that you shouldn't look at burst dmg from low health enemies or from multiple targets. Testing single target on a target dummy doesn't mean everything, but it is a good indicator of where you stand with the strength of your rotation.

Just a bit above I posted (#135) a test in this thread of my PetSorc with an extremely simplified rotation to show that animation cancelling isn't everything. How does your setup compare to mine? I used 5xJuli, 5xNecro, 1xIce Heart all divines, all purple armor, gold weapons. 23k dps and it was a sloppy one-time parse with mistakes, so I'm sure that could be 25k if the rotation was tighter. Add in light attack weaving and you'll be approaching 30k dps. I'm cp640, but you should have most of the same dmg at cp450 anyways.

Is Necropotence a better choice over spinner's? Ill have to use on of my guildies test dummies in thier home instance to try it out I think. Ill check out your build too thanks.

Pets scale off Max Magicka primarily. Higher the mag, higher the pet damage. I have 47-53K on my pet sorc. I get 30-31K on a good parse, 32K on a high crit parse

Hi, thanks for that I guess ill be going back to necro then.

Nihility42 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

We also have to consider the difference that animation canceling makes. I'm not very good at animation canceling, having really only learned to do one type of it. So my DPS is obviously lower even when I'm using an "ideal" rotation.

Honestly, 10-15K DPS is good DPS, if you don't animation cancel. Consider that when you talk about new players having low DPS.

I'll be completely honest here. My best self-buffed DPS parse on a 3 mil Dummy is 16.5K DPS on my Stamina Sorc. I've got a good rotation and I've got good uptime on everything I should have going...but I can't animation cancel outside of weaving heavy attacks.

I'm not looking for suggestions or how to improve. That answer's pretty obvious - learn to animation cancel. Except that animation canceling isn't explained anywhere in the game, so while I could go to outside sources and learn and figure it out, that's not something that you can expect out of new players.

You said, "A PetSorc using WoE, LL, pet and heavy attack will hit 20K. Easily."

Uh. Nope. Not without animation cancelling and/or a Maelstrom Staff. I'm running a MagSorc through VMA for the first time to get my staff. Again, I can't animation cancel, and no, I don't get 20K easily with the rotation you describe. More like 12-13K with an optimal rotation.

Again, I'm not looking for suggestions or criticism. The solution is obvious - L2animationcancel. I'm just pointing out, again, the big difference that animation canceling makes to DPS. Unfortunately, animation canceling is necessary for getting those high numbers that have become necessary for certain levels of content. I don't even dislike animation canceling as a concept or how its used in the game, I just dislike pretending that gear+rotation will let you hit high DPS numbers without animation canceling. That has not been my experience at all.

I'll agree with the OP that 20K DPS is a fair number for good DPS. However, its worth pointing out that reaching 20K requires at least some level of animation canceling for most players. Perhaps trials gear lets you reach that without animation canceling. I wouldn't know, because I can't get to trials-level DPS without animation canceling to do the trials myself.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people treat animation cancelling likes it's particularly hard or even something that takes much learning. Just fire your skills off quickly one after another, click in between, and boom you are cancelling. It's not like there is some 1ms window you have to hit for it to work. And especially with the HA meta we have, cancelling heavy attacks is incredibly easy, just start charging it then hit your skill button without releasing the attack button. Done. Want to cancel a skill with block or weapon swap? Hit the skill, then hit the block or the swap. It's really pretty intuitive.

I cant animation cancel because i have pins and screws in my hands and fingers and due to this have arthritis so animation cancelling is out of my reach. However I have managed to tweak my pet sorc and made a build i can actually cope with and I get 18k-38k depending whether I'm in a trial or dungeon or open world. I've never used a dummy so my dps is just what i get on metrics in dungeons and trials. Maneuvering is difficult for me as well so I like to try and be able to stand still when using my skills. I run Necropotence rings, necklace, gloves and legs with moondancer staves and rest armour with molag shoulder & Ice heart helm. Spell dmg is over 2k and crit is 45.6%ish with innerlight double bared. Times I get 38k and some times even 40k is normally in trials when I have buffs on me from group mbrs I guess and debuffs on the bosses. I normally only pay attention to what I do to the single target bosses as group mobs gives higher numbers and I don't find that very accurate.

To OP great thread and good sound advice I like it

Juju_beans

Yeah..20K for the average player is good enough to survive most content and still bring down mobs/bosses.

I'm your average casual player.
When I hit cp160 I got my gear (Hundings/Spriggans) and then installed a combat mod.

I was doing 5K damage (EEEK).

So I started reading about rotations and switched some stuff up.
Weaned myself off of needing lots of health for survival and practiced, practiced, practiced.

I also practice with no food buff and now at cp350 can do 20K dps easily.
Delves are a piece of cake, end of quest chain bosses are a piece of cake.

I even hit 25K dps when the rng gods of crit shine down on me.

To me, 20K dps seems the sweet spot for casual players like me.

Lynx7386

With all purple gear and a decent rotation incorporating heavy attacks and animation cancelling, 20-25k should be good. You don't start seeing 30k+ levels of dps until you add in gold equipment, stacking buffs/debuffs, and sacrificing utility and survivability for more damage.

CompM4s

Should be able to complete most content at 20k. Definitely at 25k+. Being competant and not dying every 5 seconds is more important than 40k on a dummy. Also in trial group 25k tranlates to alot more.

Awhile back people were completing vet trials at or under 20k dps.

Anotherone773

I cant use other peoples builds or rotations. Also the more complex the rotation, the more dps i lose. Adding 2 or 3 abilities and keeping uptime actually reduces my DPS by as much as 25%. Instead of a set rotation, i use things as i need them and each fight i need different things at a different time. So im constantly adjusting when i use LA, HA, and when i use abilities. I just make sure im using the best abilities for the situation.

I use a target dummy sparingly, as i dont find them extremely useful except to test different gear combinations. On both of my characters they are below average DPS, but i still have a lot of improvements i plan to do to them so i dont worry about it. I just make sure i keep improving them.

I couldnt keep up with complex rotations anyway as i need to play a bunch of different characters or i get bored with them. Playing the same one day in and day out gets old. Having a 10 ability rotation and half dozen or more characters played regularly is just to much thinking.

Elijah_Crow

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Having a 10 ability rotation and half dozen or more characters played regularly is just to much thinking.

Exactly why I prefer to play one, and do it well.

pod88kk

If you have 30k+ with good survivability and knowledge of mechanics you'll be fine

Somber97866

Hey stam, word to the wise. If you wanna keep hitting them high numbers then you might want to shut up about it. You know what ZOS gonna hit ya with ........... a nerf ball

pod88kk

Pity they don't hit everyone else with a boost ball

Danksta

Somber97866 wrote: »

Hey stam, word to the wise. If you wanna keep hitting them high numbers then you might want to shut up about it. You know what ZOS gonna hit ya with ........... a nerf ball

You should stop being salty and just git gud.

Somber97866

Jokes on you cause I am good. But I got something salty for you tasted buds

akray21

I'm getting 24k with blue jewelry and purple weapons on my StamSorc.

Violynne

lordrichter wrote: »

Mobs die before you do. Plenty of DPS.

You stole my line!

Troneon

The most important skill you need to keep up good dps.

NOT DIE

Many people yet to have this unlocked.

Most Trial Group Leaders will ask very simple things of you, hit 10-15k dps minimum, if everyone including tanks/healers is doing that the content is achievable. More important is knowing the content mechanics and avoiding the one shots and screwing over the people next to you by being in the wrong place at the wrong time and attacking the wrong things etc.

Knowing the mechanics of the content and staying alive in group content is more important than doing over 20k dps....

Look at guides, ask for advice BEFORE the group content starts, watch up to date youtube videos so you don't go in blindly.

Having 2-3 players in the group constantly being alive, dead, rezzed, alive, dead rezzed etc, you basically lose all dps needed even if they have 100k dps.....they are worthless to group.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Violynne wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Mobs die before you do. Plenty of DPS.

You stole my line!

you mean good healering right?

MLGProPlayer

kylewwefan wrote: »

Animation cancelling is not required for decent damage.

Animation cancelling can literally add like 10k DPS to your parse. It makes a huge difference.

FakeFox

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Animation cancelling is not required for decent damage.

Animation cancelling can literally add like 10k DPS to your parse. It makes a huge difference.

Depends on what you see as animation cancelling. If you count weaving, it's quite a lot, but even then I wouldn't say 10k. The rest barely makes a difference.

GreenhaloX

When you can kill adds/mobs/bosses or other players, you have good dps. Doesn't need a target dummy's non-moving and non-fighting back stat/numbers to tell you that your toon has good dps. Remember.. "Brick no hit back!"

Dymence

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Animation cancelling is not required for decent damage.

Animation cancelling can literally add like 10k DPS to your parse. It makes a huge difference.

Weaving is not animation cancelling.

Every form of animation cancelling you might do in a PVE environment will add less than 1k DPS to your parse.

DMuehlhausen

Didn't need to read the post.

What is good DPS or a good DD player = somebody who doesn't stand in red. Even if bosses take awhile to kill I don't care as long as people are doing what they are suppose to do.

Bonzodog01

After 2 and a half years of playing, I still have absolutely zero idea of how to weave, animation cancel or even attempt to remember a rotation (I have short term memory loss). So, I literally have to fall back on remembering to hit a max of 3 buttons in any fight as that is the absolute most I can handle, and in no particular order either. Most of the time, by the second rotation, I just go to using my one main spammable, then run mad circles until my resources refill. Sometimes, if I am still alive after a few mins, I might realise that I haven't used one of my other skills recently, and hit that. But I am very much a two skill fighter, its all I can handle.

Plus, this is on Xbox, which has no add-ons, so no buff timers or any prompts - it relies entirely on you noticing/timing/remembering by yourself.

Azyle1

People are now considering 40K just to be "OK"?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

Ms_Boo

Just hit a 6mil dummy for the first time. CP360 Stamina Sorc with 5 hundings, stormfist, agility jewelry, night mother’s gaze daggers and a bow. Weapons are gold and monster helm is gold the rest is purple.

Didn’t really know what to expect but I followed the Alcast rotation/abilities and first one was 16k, went and watched a few videos and switched up my mundus stone (from warrior to the lover) next run I was just under 18k. Next three runs were 19.5k-19.9k (one of the final three I had switched back to warrior just to see results).

Going to keep practicing the rotation and working on uptimes as well as try out a mechanical acuity gear setup in place of hundings.

For my first few times using the target dummy and being rather new to the game, 2-3 months playing, I am actually happy with these numbers and I’m sure with practice I’ll only improve. Would appreciate any pointers or suggestions though!

I’ve heard a maelstrom bow is helpful as well so I hope to run that for the first time next week. Not excited about it at all.

Jade1986

20 + k is fine for me. As long as the tank / tanks and healers do their jobs, all should workout.

DanteYoda

Meta.. Meta ruins everything.

dan958

Seeing these replies makes me think that I should probably do something to improve my dps. I don't currently do dungeons, trials, or PVP at the moment, but would like to start.

kylewwefan

Troneon wrote: »

The most important skill you need to keep up good dps.

NOT DIE

Many people yet to have this unlocked.

Most Trial Group Leaders will ask very simple things of you, hit 10-15k dps minimum, if everyone including tanks/healers is doing that the content is achievable. More important is knowing the content mechanics and avoiding the one shots and screwing over the people next to you by being in the wrong place at the wrong time and attacking the wrong things etc.

Knowing the mechanics of the content and staying alive in group content is more important than doing over 20k dps....

Look at guides, ask for advice BEFORE the group content starts, watch up to date youtube videos so you don't go in blindly.

Having 2-3 players in the group constantly being alive, dead, rezzed, alive, dead rezzed etc, you basically lose all dps needed even if they have 100k dps.....they are worthless to group.

Yeah. Pretty much this. But there is an extreme wrong way to do that as well. The guy running around light attacking everything, not throwing any AOE or dots down making the fights last too long and getting overwhelmed by ads that should have been dead 5 minutes ago. That’s a problem.

Throw down 2 AOE dots for the ads; hit the boss with a couple Dots; heavy attack and spam til refresh and use ultimates. Try to avoid the Red and Don’t Die will carry you far in this game. Use your champion points wisely. You know, the ones that give you the most bang for your buck.

Your build can make a monster difference too. Most of the setups I see are still aimed at coordinated group play that doesn’t exist for the vast majority of groups. I think Penetration trumps weapon damage any day of the week still for better realistic gains. It makes all those weak dots hit way harder.

With warrior/ Hunding my endless hail hits for around 4K per cast. With the lover and TFS it goes up to 9k+ average damage per cast.

I’ve got no mathematical explanation for ya, but one definitely feels better than the other.