Let's all agree on 1 thing: Battleground should be free when the next Expansion comes out.

josiahva

Nay...

You want new content but don't want to pay those programmers to do their job? Where do you work? Maybe you should work for me for free? Why is it acceptable to ask ZOS to provide you content for free?

Armatesz

Yay!

I own morrowind and I think they should have made it as a free thing instead of charging for it. Entire modes you can't play if you don't own morrowind and the other associated dlc. An entire holiday event majority of people could not complete it because of this fact. Leaving the ones that did get the thing fully finished the ones that lucked out with all the glitches in the event. Something about less than 20 or 10% of people actually got it done.

del9

Yay!

Everyone saying no clearly doesn’t play BGs. Sure it took ZOS resources to create, but one of only 2 PVP options should not be behind a paywall. Making BGs free will be good for the health of ESO PVP, which means it’s good for ZOS.

Vyle_Byte

Yay!

Should have been accessible to everyone in the first place and I bought Morrowind. It breaks up an already limited pvp community. IMO it wouldn't cheapen Morrowinds value - you'd still have to get that to have the warden class.

Rohaus

Yay!

I have to wonder if the folks that say NAY actually participate within the battlegrounds...

It absolutely makes zero sense to me to keep battlegrounds behind the Morrowind purchase.

A MMO is NOT a MMO without the proper amount of people playing it.

I purchased Morrowind... heck, I have sunk more money into ESO than I care to admit... but let me tell you something, I could care less if Battlegrounds was free to all.

I assure you, I have received my money's worth from Morrowind and THEN some.

Pr0Skygon

Yay!

josiahva wrote: »

You want new content but don't want to pay those programmers to do their job? Where do you work? Maybe you should work for me for free? Why is it acceptable to ask ZOS to provide you content for free?

I've already paid for Morrowind at launch, and I have no problem seeing it goes free.
Also, please don't input business theory here, because you clearly have no idea how an MMO game service works.

Pr0Skygon

Yay!

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

Hmmm I said no but actually it really should be part of the base game. Look at any major MMO that has the same PvE/PvP/scenario PvP and the equivalent of battlegrounds is included in the base game. The only reason I see that not happening in ESO is that they are still trying to justify the cost of Morrowind

then it should have been a yay vote, my friend

Ley

Nay...

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Also, please don't input business theory here, because you clearly have no idea how an MMO game service works.

Please sir do enlighten us.

VaranisArano

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

You want new content but don't want to pay those programmers to do their job? Where do you work? Maybe you should work for me for free? Why is it acceptable to ask ZOS to provide you content for free?

I've already paid for Morrowind at launch, and I have no problem seeing it goes free.
Also, please don't input business theory here, because you clearly have no idea how an MMO game service works.

Here's my theory for how Battlegrounds as a free base game upgrade or a DLC fits with how an MMO game service works, and particularly ZOS, works.

They can't. They justified Morrowind's existence as a Chapter becuase it was a new large zone, a PVP arena, AND a new class. So they charged real money for it and even ESO+ subscribers had to pay. Hugely unpopular, but it happened.

They've got a new Chapter coming out this year. Summerset Isles. That'll be a new zone and ????? We don't know what else they'll bundle with Summerset Isles. But they'll have something because they dug themselves into a hole with Morrowind. Chapters have to be bigger and better than mere DLC.

So if ZOS takes Battlegrounds and makes it part of the base game, they'll shoot their Chapter justification in the foot. They shoot their Chapter justification in the foot, and new Chapters start looking even more like a money grab except with less benefits. Its in ZOS' best interests to keep Morrowind's content value high so that people still buy it and it raises the value of Chapters in general.

Rohaus

Yay!

VaranisArano wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

You want new content but don't want to pay those programmers to do their job? Where do you work? Maybe you should work for me for free? Why is it acceptable to ask ZOS to provide you content for free?

I've already paid for Morrowind at launch, and I have no problem seeing it goes free.
Also, please don't input business theory here, because you clearly have no idea how an MMO game service works.

Here's my theory for how Battlegrounds as a free base game upgrade or a DLC fits with how an MMO game service works, and particularly ZOS, works.

They can't. They justified Morrowind's existence as a Chapter becuase it was a new large zone, a PVP arena, AND a new class. So they charged real money for it and even ESO+ subscribers had to pay. Hugely unpopular, but it happened.

They've got a new Chapter coming out this year. Summerset Isles. That'll be a new zone and ????? We don't know what else they'll bundle with Summerset Isles. But they'll have something because they dug themselves into a hole with Morrowind. Chapters have to be bigger and better than mere DLC.

So if ZOS takes Battlegrounds and makes it part of the base game, they'll shoot their Chapter justification in the foot. They shoot their Chapter justification in the foot, and new Chapters start looking even more like a money grab except with less benefits. Its in ZOS' best interests to keep Morrowind's content value high so that people still buy it and it raises the value of Chapters in general.

It’s okay to admit when one is wrong. ZOS did that recently when they stated that Battlegrounds will be reverting back to No CP.

Varxent

Yay!

I think this would be an amazing change to get more people in BGs. At the moment on PC/NA you run into the same exact people nearly every game. But at the sametime I know people who bought Morrowind JUST for Battlegrounds. They deserve something in return if this becomes a thing.

MurderMostFoul

Yay!

I'm all for removing the pay wall and increasing the player base. I wonder tho, what would they do to give nonmorrowind players access to the BG vendors and quests.

Elsonso

Nay...

Too soon

Pr0Skygon

Yay!

lordrichter wrote: »

Too soon

Why? No really, why?

Turelus

Yay!

I actually vote yay.

At least the base maps/modes should become core game to get more people playing them. Keep some maps to DLC purchase only.

Elsonso

Nay...

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Too soon

Why? No really, why?

Mainly because I think there is still retail value in Morrowind, and the Battlegrounds are part of that value.

Varxent wrote: »

I think this would be an amazing change to get more people in BGs. At the moment on PC/NA you run into the same exact people nearly every game. But at the sametime I know people who bought Morrowind JUST for Battlegrounds. They deserve something in return if this becomes a thing.

It would be interesting to see if free Battlegrounds would really change that.

My thought is that sales of Morrowind exceed 50% of the active player base, even among PVP-only players. If people are not playing Battlegrounds, it is likely because people don't want to play Battlegrounds. It is probably not because they cannot play Battlegrounds.

Merlin13KAGL

Nay...

Other: since that's not an option on your poll...

Certain modes could be free, or limited access (think free-play weekends, etc). If you want the full access, but don't want Morrowind, it could be sold as a standalone addon DLC at a reduced price.

It's a notable enough feature that making it free after only a year seems a bit much, especially since Morrowind goes on sale from time to time, as it is.

None of the other DLC has been opened up this way, not sure why BG would need to be the exception.

Maulkin

Nay...

I want developers to be paid for their work and it's obvious considerable work went into the BGs, so I'm a firm 'No' on it being free. However, I do feel that it should also be offered as a stand alone DLC in exchange for Crowns as well.

- People who are purchasing Morrowind chapter, are also purchasing the BGs DLC as part of it. The ones that have already purchased Morrowind, should get the DLC just added to their purchased DLCs list.

- People who don't have Morrowind chapter and don't care about buying it for the new quests/area, Wardens or the HoF trial will have the option to pay a crown price and get the BGs DLC alone. If people have a paid subscription without Morrowind chapter, they should just get access to BGs. As they do with all other DLCs.

All that needs to be done, is to add Battlemaster Rivyn in the generic faction areas (Rawl Kha, Wayrest, Mournhold) interact-able for all those who have access to the DLC content through a purchase or a subscription.

If they bring a new chapter this year, it'd be the perfect time to also split out the BGs. Since the marketability of Morrowind chapter will decrease even further

NordSwordnBoard

Yay!

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Other: since that's not an option on your poll...

Certain modes could be free, or limited access (think free-play weekends, etc). If you want the full access, but don't want Morrowind, it could be sold as a standalone addon DLC at a reduced price.

It's a notable enough feature that making it free after only a year seems a bit much, especially since Morrowind goes on sale from time to time, as it is.

None of the other DLC has been opened up this way, not sure why BG would need to be the exception.

Make BGs free during midyear mayhem, and watch the population go up! It may even lessen the strain on Cyrodiil servers.

idk

Nay...

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

BloodWolfe wrote: »

I'm sick of the whiners here saying "pay wall this" and "pay wall that" or "P2W" when it comes to Morrowind (and someone finds P2W in ridiculous ways but their is no P2W here... yet and hopefully it stays that way). This is an MMO that does not force you to pay a monthly subscription fee anymore so they need to make money some how and nobody would buy expansions or DLC's if they didn't have anything new to entice customers to buy. If the sub was mandatory then they would still charge for expansions and most do but at least with the sub (ESO+) the DLC's are free so 1 expansion with a cost (new class and new PvP game mode) on top of a new zone should not be an issue yet it has been an issue for some players for a year now and it's ridiculous, give it up already! In short... if you want it then buy it otherwise deal without.

EVERY MMO launches new features, new race(s) and new class(es) with PAID EXPANSIONS! Why whould this be different? BG's (and wardens) should not be given free to those who are too cheap to pay while the rest of us who want to support this game paid for them. Wait for a sale or do without.


Sure I don't like some of the Crown store practices ZOS has been using (absurd pricing for most things, too many "limited time" items and now most nice/good items not even going Crown shop but straight to Crates, and the crate mounts that can't even be purchased with gems) is all ridiculous IMO. We'll see how the outfit slots, housing storage and new stuff with update 17 go and if it's going to be absurd or not but my guess it will all be ridiculously priced.

I don't support crown crates (never have and never will) and anything crown shop I don't feel is worth the money I just do without and same will go for outfit slots and housing storage if they are not reasonably priced. That's how it is, but I bought Morrowind C.E. (physical) and am happy with that and I sub to ESO+.

The important part is "at launch". We happily paid ZOS at launch, no complain. But BGs is a feature that deserve to be free.
Also, the "every MMO has sub" is no longer a valid point, since there's only 2 games that survive with that model. Most MMO nowaday are free. Just saying.

The comment that BGs is a feature that deserves to be free is not a valid point which is probably why you offered nothing to support that claim. Especially with your valid point subscriptions are no longer required demonstrating the valid point that new features should come at an additional cost. Though few major MMOS are actually free.

MurderMostFoul

Yay!

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Make BGs free during midyear mayhem, and watch the population go up! It may even lessen the strain on Cyrodiil servers.

This would be cool if they don't outright release if for everyone. It would be nice to see a flood of new victims.

Anethum

Nay...

It should be partly accessable.
Lets respect economics guys, Zos should get money on content.
To be encouraged to create a real content instead crown crate cosmetics.
But, partly free.

For example: to separate premades and randoms, and to allow joining only 1 mode for those who have no morrowind dlc (don't know which one, maybe premade one to fill potentially worse populater queye better).
Morrowind provides warden creation and big dlc already, it will not be a problem if to make another bonuses and fill the sense of buy chapter by something else.
Also, something should be done in rewards system for morrowind users only also. For example very rarely drop on weekly for best ranked players motif like idk parts of only in crown store accesseble motifs. maybe no bg sets drop without morrowind etc. Rewards work

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_GinaBruno

Anethum

Nay...

partly accessable

Dagoth_Rac

Nay...

Morrowind has already been decreased in price from $40 to $20 since release. It might even go lower once the next Chapter comes out. That seems like discount enough.

Pr0Skygon

Yay!

Turelus wrote: »

I actually vote yay.

At least the base maps/modes should become core game to get more people playing them. Keep some maps to DLC purchase only.

Wait, did you just agree with me? That's weird.

Maulkin

Nay...

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Morrowind has already been decreased in price from $40 to $20 since release. It might even go lower once the next Chapter comes out. That seems like discount enough.

It's the same thing that was said a year ago, when Morrowind was announced. It's not the cost itself.

What if you paid the initial $80 for the game and been paying $15 monthly subscription since? Why does that $15 you pay give you access to 90% of new content added since launch but not BGs? Why do you have to pay on top of that for the BGs and why can't you buy it with any crowns you've been hoarding up? if I have $50 in Crown currency, why can I not use that.

It's mostly the feeling of being mugged a bit because you have been paying for new content all along (and you keep paying!) but then you are asked to pay over again for content that is bundled with other, seemingly unrelated, content (PvE and Quests). And the currency you have been converting your USDs to (Crowns), is suddenly considered fiat and can't be used for buying Morrowind and BGs.

I'm not up for making it free, like with any DLC. I understand the need for devs to be paid for their work, being one myself. But making it Crown purchaseable now would make complete sense. The people who paid the Morrowind price (me included) have had access to it for over a year now. So now I don't care how the other people pay for it, in the same way I don't care that they only have to pay a third of the price that I paid at Morrowind launch.

Pr0Skygon

Yay!

lordrichter wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Too soon

Why? No really, why?

Mainly because I think there is still retail value in Morrowind, and the Battlegrounds are part of that value.

Varxent wrote: »

I think this would be an amazing change to get more people in BGs. At the moment on PC/NA you run into the same exact people nearly every game. But at the sametime I know people who bought Morrowind JUST for Battlegrounds. They deserve something in return if this becomes a thing.

It would be interesting to see if free Battlegrounds would really change that.

My thought is that sales of Morrowind exceed 50% of the active player base, even among PVP-only players. If people are not playing Battlegrounds, it is likely because people don't want to play Battlegrounds. It is probably not because they cannot play Battlegrounds.

Let's talk a bit about retail value, because it's conflicting. Morrowind selling point was suppose to be, well, Morrowind. The land, the characters, the lore, the nostalgia, and all of those PvE goodness: new class to level up, new gear to after, new trial to play. And then there's Battleground. It really has no business with any other thing in the package.

Why is it out of the package? Because most of other content are PvE content, which can mostly be played with 1 person alone, except only 1 aspect, that is trial. That's it. Everything can be done solo. But not PvP. If you don't have other players to play with and against, then there'll be no PvP, and restricting a game mode that requires an MMO size of players to be successful is a really bad move. It's like selling DLC maps for COD, it split the player base, and also make queuing for paid maps a lot harder.

Pr0Skygon

Yay!

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Morrowind has already been decreased in price from $40 to $20 since release. It might even go lower once the next Chapter comes out. That seems like discount enough.

That's still a "pay" wall.

Pr0Skygon

Yay!

idk wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

BloodWolfe wrote: »

I'm sick of the whiners here saying "pay wall this" and "pay wall that" or "P2W" when it comes to Morrowind (and someone finds P2W in ridiculous ways but their is no P2W here... yet and hopefully it stays that way). This is an MMO that does not force you to pay a monthly subscription fee anymore so they need to make money some how and nobody would buy expansions or DLC's if they didn't have anything new to entice customers to buy. If the sub was mandatory then they would still charge for expansions and most do but at least with the sub (ESO+) the DLC's are free so 1 expansion with a cost (new class and new PvP game mode) on top of a new zone should not be an issue yet it has been an issue for some players for a year now and it's ridiculous, give it up already! In short... if you want it then buy it otherwise deal without.

EVERY MMO launches new features, new race(s) and new class(es) with PAID EXPANSIONS! Why whould this be different? BG's (and wardens) should not be given free to those who are too cheap to pay while the rest of us who want to support this game paid for them. Wait for a sale or do without.


Sure I don't like some of the Crown store practices ZOS has been using (absurd pricing for most things, too many "limited time" items and now most nice/good items not even going Crown shop but straight to Crates, and the crate mounts that can't even be purchased with gems) is all ridiculous IMO. We'll see how the outfit slots, housing storage and new stuff with update 17 go and if it's going to be absurd or not but my guess it will all be ridiculously priced.

I don't support crown crates (never have and never will) and anything crown shop I don't feel is worth the money I just do without and same will go for outfit slots and housing storage if they are not reasonably priced. That's how it is, but I bought Morrowind C.E. (physical) and am happy with that and I sub to ESO+.

The important part is "at launch". We happily paid ZOS at launch, no complain. But BGs is a feature that deserve to be free.
Also, the "every MMO has sub" is no longer a valid point, since there's only 2 games that survive with that model. Most MMO nowaday are free. Just saying.

The comment that BGs is a feature that deserves to be free is not a valid point which is probably why you offered nothing to support that claim. Especially with your valid point subscriptions are no longer required demonstrating the valid point that new features should come at an additional cost. Though few major MMOS are actually free.

My friend, if you want a valid point, then I'll tell ya. BGs is a PvP mode. And what is the most important part of an MMORPG, or more specifically, a PvP mode in MMORPG? Population and player engagement. Imagine playing 5 BGs on a roll, and meets the same people, on that same team everytime, all the time. It might be fun for that first 5 times, but I can't be sure for the next 5 times, then the next, then next, you get the point. And what happen when there's so few people engage in that 1 mode? It hurts people interest in that mode. Why would you play a low populate mode, when you can play the other, more popular mode, with a bunch of popular streamers and youtubers back it up, and it's build in inside the base game, without any paywall?
And if you ask "Why didn't I talk about this in the first place?" Then I'll "I might have been very naive". I thought everyone on the forum would understand those simple concept for a successful MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game.

Pr0Skygon

Yay!

Maulkin wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Morrowind has already been decreased in price from $40 to $20 since release. It might even go lower once the next Chapter comes out. That seems like discount enough.

It's the same thing that was said a year ago, when Morrowind was announced. It's not the cost itself.

What if you paid the initial $80 for the game and been paying $15 monthly subscription since? Why does that $15 you pay give you access to 90% of new content added since launch but not BGs? Why do you have to pay on top of that for the BGs and why can't you buy it with any crowns you've been hoarding up? if I have $50 in Crown currency, why can I not use that.

It's mostly the feeling of being mugged a bit because you have been paying for new content all along (and you keep paying!) but then you are asked to pay over again for content that is bundled with other, seemingly unrelated, content (PvE and Quests). And the currency you have been converting your USDs to (Crowns), is suddenly considered fiat and can't be used for buying Morrowind and BGs.

I'm not up for making it free, like with any DLC. I understand the need for devs to be paid for their work, being one myself. But making it Crown purchaseable now would make complete sense. The people who paid the Morrowind price (me included) have had access to it for over a year now. So now I don't care how the other people pay for it, in the same way I don't care that they only have to pay a third of the price that I paid at Morrowind launch.

If you're a game dev yourself, you should know that block a game mode that requires a lot of players engagement behind a paywall is a dead end for that game, right?