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Let's all agree on 1 thing: Battleground should be free when the next Expansion comes out.

  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    Nay...
    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    Let's talk a bit about retail value, because it's conflicting. Morrowind selling point was suppose to be, well, Morrowind. The land, the characters, the lore, the nostalgia, and all of those PvE goodness: new class to level up, new gear to after, new trial to play. And then there's Battleground. It really has no business with any other thing in the package.

    Why is it out of the package? Because most of other content are PvE content, which can mostly be played with 1 person alone, except only 1 aspect, that is trial. That's it. Everything can be done solo. But not PvP. If you don't have other players to play with and against, then there'll be no PvP, and restricting a game mode that requires an MMO size of players to be successful is a really bad move. It's like selling DLC maps for COD, it split the player base, and also make queuing for paid maps a lot harder.

    It is in the package so that Morrowind is not what you say it is. This way both PVP and PVE players are buying it, but more than that, players who do both PVE and PVP get something for both.
    2022: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
    "Tamriel One was fun and engaging, Tamriel Once .... not so much." - Jaraal, March 9, 2022
    "Stop treating the combat in this game as some sort of lab experiment." - code65536, July 18, 2022
    Best summary of Update 35: "SAY NO TO MUSTARD IN YOUR DOUGHNUT !" - pklemming, August 9, 2022.

    ><)))*>

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ElsonsoJannus
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Nay...
    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    Morrowind has already been decreased in price from $40 to $20 since release. It might even go lower once the next Chapter comes out. That seems like discount enough.

    It's the same thing that was said a year ago, when Morrowind was announced. It's not the cost itself.

    What if you paid the initial $80 for the game and been paying $15 monthly subscription since? Why does that $15 you pay give you access to 90% of new content added since launch but not BGs? Why do you have to pay on top of that for the BGs and why can't you buy it with any crowns you've been hoarding up? if I have $50 in Crown currency, why can I not use that.

    It's mostly the feeling of being mugged a bit because you have been paying for new content all along (and you keep paying!) but then you are asked to pay over again for content that is bundled with other, seemingly unrelated, content (PvE and Quests). And the currency you have been converting your USDs to (Crowns), is suddenly considered fiat and can't be used for buying Morrowind and BGs.

    I'm not up for making it free, like with any DLC. I understand the need for devs to be paid for their work, being one myself. But making it Crown purchaseable now would make complete sense. The people who paid the Morrowind price (me included) have had access to it for over a year now. So now I don't care how the other people pay for it, in the same way I don't care that they only have to pay a third of the price that I paid at Morrowind launch.

    If you're a game dev yourself, you should know that block a game mode that requires a lot of players engagement behind a paywall is a dead end for that game, right?

    I'm a dev, but not a game dev.

    The size of the pay-wall and the way you pay matters. Like if a wall requires crypto-currency payment or payment in Zimbabwean Dollars only, then suddenly a lot of people won't bother with the hassle.

    The initial wall was both high and the players could not pay it with any existing Crown currency they had, which was purchased with real money to begin with. So ZOS were in a bit of a double fault for that, because they suddenly discredited their own currency.

    Add to it the fact that the population had already been split across 3 different platforms and the fact PvP was already facing the CP vs no-CP division and you realise that BGs were at high risk of lacking population.
    Edited by Maulkin on February 2, 2018 4:57PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Pr0Skygon
    Pr0Skygon
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    Yay!
    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    Let's talk a bit about retail value, because it's conflicting. Morrowind selling point was suppose to be, well, Morrowind. The land, the characters, the lore, the nostalgia, and all of those PvE goodness: new class to level up, new gear to after, new trial to play. And then there's Battleground. It really has no business with any other thing in the package.

    Why is it out of the package? Because most of other content are PvE content, which can mostly be played with 1 person alone, except only 1 aspect, that is trial. That's it. Everything can be done solo. But not PvP. If you don't have other players to play with and against, then there'll be no PvP, and restricting a game mode that requires an MMO size of players to be successful is a really bad move. It's like selling DLC maps for COD, it split the player base, and also make queuing for paid maps a lot harder.

    It is in the package so that Morrowind is not what you say it is. This way both PVP and PVE players are buying it, but more than that, players who do both PVE and PVP get something for both.

    So how about the part I said about BGs is a game mode that should be experienced by all players, and the fact that BGs requires a huge amount of player population and player engagement to work?
    Imperial City when it came out was a really good DLC, but the paywall model really did not help it stays alive. If this goes on, BGs will be at the same fate like Imperial City. And please don't tell that "IC still have players in it", or "I still play IC", because that number is no where near enough to keep it "alive", and people usually get in IC for looting reason, not enjoyment purpose.
  • Pr0Skygon
    Pr0Skygon
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    Yay!
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    Morrowind has already been decreased in price from $40 to $20 since release. It might even go lower once the next Chapter comes out. That seems like discount enough.

    It's the same thing that was said a year ago, when Morrowind was announced. It's not the cost itself.

    What if you paid the initial $80 for the game and been paying $15 monthly subscription since? Why does that $15 you pay give you access to 90% of new content added since launch but not BGs? Why do you have to pay on top of that for the BGs and why can't you buy it with any crowns you've been hoarding up? if I have $50 in Crown currency, why can I not use that.

    It's mostly the feeling of being mugged a bit because you have been paying for new content all along (and you keep paying!) but then you are asked to pay over again for content that is bundled with other, seemingly unrelated, content (PvE and Quests). And the currency you have been converting your USDs to (Crowns), is suddenly considered fiat and can't be used for buying Morrowind and BGs.

    I'm not up for making it free, like with any DLC. I understand the need for devs to be paid for their work, being one myself. But making it Crown purchaseable now would make complete sense. The people who paid the Morrowind price (me included) have had access to it for over a year now. So now I don't care how the other people pay for it, in the same way I don't care that they only have to pay a third of the price that I paid at Morrowind launch.

    If you're a game dev yourself, you should know that block a game mode that requires a lot of players engagement behind a paywall is a dead end for that game, right?

    I'm a dev, but not a game dev.

    The size of the pay-wall and the way you pay matters. Like if a wall requires crypto-currency payment or payment in Zimbabwean Dollars only, then suddenly a lot of people won't bother with the hassle.

    The initial wall was both high and the players could not pay it with any existing Crown currency they had, which was purchased with real money to begin with. So ZOS were in a bit of a double fault for that, because they suddenly discredited their own currency.

    Add to it the fact that the population had already been split across 3 different platforms and the fact PvP was already facing the CP vs no-CP division and you realise that BGs were at high risk of lacking population.

    Wait, so you do realize that the player population is divided, you do realize that we don't have enough player engagement for BGs, and you clearly don't agree with the way ZOS charged for Morrowind, even though I don't have much problem with that. Yet you still vote nay? Why? No, really, why? You seem to agree with my point, so why the nay?
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    Nay...
    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    Let's talk a bit about retail value, because it's conflicting. Morrowind selling point was suppose to be, well, Morrowind. The land, the characters, the lore, the nostalgia, and all of those PvE goodness: new class to level up, new gear to after, new trial to play. And then there's Battleground. It really has no business with any other thing in the package.

    Why is it out of the package? Because most of other content are PvE content, which can mostly be played with 1 person alone, except only 1 aspect, that is trial. That's it. Everything can be done solo. But not PvP. If you don't have other players to play with and against, then there'll be no PvP, and restricting a game mode that requires an MMO size of players to be successful is a really bad move. It's like selling DLC maps for COD, it split the player base, and also make queuing for paid maps a lot harder.

    It is in the package so that Morrowind is not what you say it is. This way both PVP and PVE players are buying it, but more than that, players who do both PVE and PVP get something for both.

    So how about the part I said about BGs is a game mode that should be experienced by all players, and the fact that BGs requires a huge amount of player population and player engagement to work?
    Imperial City when it came out was a really good DLC, but the paywall model really did not help it stays alive. If this goes on, BGs will be at the same fate like Imperial City. And please don't tell that "IC still have players in it", or "I still play IC", because that number is no where near enough to keep it "alive", and people usually get in IC for looting reason, not enjoyment purpose.

    You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. Just because someone can access IC, or do BG, does not mean that they will. I would hazard a guess and say that the majority of people who would be interested in Battlegrounds, or Imperial City, own the respective content. If people aren't playing it, I suggest that the problem lies elsewhere.

    Battlegrounds are part of Morrowind for a reason, and you can bet that it was a considered and deliberate reason. If Battlegrounds end up being better off in the base game, then you can bet ZOS will put them there. Given that they never did this with Imperial City, I am not expecting that they will do that this year with Battlegrounds. Will they eventually do it? Possibly. Who knows.

    Edit: and that goes back to my original statement.
    Edited by Elsonso on February 2, 2018 10:41PM
    2022: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
    "Tamriel One was fun and engaging, Tamriel Once .... not so much." - Jaraal, March 9, 2022
    "Stop treating the combat in this game as some sort of lab experiment." - code65536, July 18, 2022
    Best summary of Update 35: "SAY NO TO MUSTARD IN YOUR DOUGHNUT !" - pklemming, August 9, 2022.

    ><)))*>

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ElsonsoJannus
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    Only way it could ever be free is if there’s some sort of compensation but some people would want actual cash rather than crowns.
  • Drakkdjinn
    Drakkdjinn
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    Yay!
    BGs are not Morrowind content, they’re general PvP content.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Nay...
    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    Let's talk a bit about retail value, because it's conflicting. Morrowind selling point was suppose to be, well, Morrowind. The land, the characters, the lore, the nostalgia, and all of those PvE goodness: new class to level up, new gear to after, new trial to play. And then there's Battleground. It really has no business with any other thing in the package.

    Why is it out of the package? Because most of other content are PvE content, which can mostly be played with 1 person alone, except only 1 aspect, that is trial. That's it. Everything can be done solo. But not PvP. If you don't have other players to play with and against, then there'll be no PvP, and restricting a game mode that requires an MMO size of players to be successful is a really bad move. It's like selling DLC maps for COD, it split the player base, and also make queuing for paid maps a lot harder.

    It is in the package so that Morrowind is not what you say it is. This way both PVP and PVE players are buying it, but more than that, players who do both PVE and PVP get something for both.

    Another, common sense, modern way to that is to compartmentalise and offer a discount on the bundle.

    For example
    - PvP (BGs) for $15
    - PvE (Zone, Quests, Trial) for another $15
    - Wardens for $10

    Or $30 and get it all. Prices used strictly as an example.
    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    Morrowind has already been decreased in price from $40 to $20 since release. It might even go lower once the next Chapter comes out. That seems like discount enough.

    It's the same thing that was said a year ago, when Morrowind was announced. It's not the cost itself.

    What if you paid the initial $80 for the game and been paying $15 monthly subscription since? Why does that $15 you pay give you access to 90% of new content added since launch but not BGs? Why do you have to pay on top of that for the BGs and why can't you buy it with any crowns you've been hoarding up? if I have $50 in Crown currency, why can I not use that.

    It's mostly the feeling of being mugged a bit because you have been paying for new content all along (and you keep paying!) but then you are asked to pay over again for content that is bundled with other, seemingly unrelated, content (PvE and Quests). And the currency you have been converting your USDs to (Crowns), is suddenly considered fiat and can't be used for buying Morrowind and BGs.

    I'm not up for making it free, like with any DLC. I understand the need for devs to be paid for their work, being one myself. But making it Crown purchaseable now would make complete sense. The people who paid the Morrowind price (me included) have had access to it for over a year now. So now I don't care how the other people pay for it, in the same way I don't care that they only have to pay a third of the price that I paid at Morrowind launch.

    If you're a game dev yourself, you should know that block a game mode that requires a lot of players engagement behind a paywall is a dead end for that game, right?

    I'm a dev, but not a game dev.

    The size of the pay-wall and the way you pay matters. Like if a wall requires crypto-currency payment or payment in Zimbabwean Dollars only, then suddenly a lot of people won't bother with the hassle.

    The initial wall was both high and the players could not pay it with any existing Crown currency they had, which was purchased with real money to begin with. So ZOS were in a bit of a double fault for that, because they suddenly discredited their own currency.

    Add to it the fact that the population had already been split across 3 different platforms and the fact PvP was already facing the CP vs no-CP division and you realise that BGs were at high risk of lacking population.

    Wait, so you do realize that the player population is divided, you do realize that we don't have enough player engagement for BGs, and you clearly don't agree with the way ZOS charged for Morrowind, even though I don't have much problem with that. Yet you still vote nay? Why? No, really, why? You seem to agree with my point, so why the nay?

    Because I don't think it should be free. I think it should be available as a separate DLC and payable by $$ or by crowns. Like all other DLCs.
    EU | PC | AD
  • DDemon
    DDemon
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    Yay!
    I think it would make BG more interesting to open it up to everyone.

    For the people who say that it would be unfair and leave a bad taste for the people that bought Morrowind (I bought it as well), just add something extra for those people.
  • Anethum
    Anethum
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    Nay...
    battlegrounds same as imperial city should have like cut versions of playing for those who have no dlc or active ESO Membership.
    So, bigger population, and its also monetization for Zenimax.

    With crown crates if I'm not wrong they started to sell much more crates after small events with giveaways of these crates before new seasons.
    Same model can be applied to Batllegrounds and IC

    @ZOS_GinaBruno
    Edited by Anethum on February 9, 2018 9:25AM
    @Anethum from .ua
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Yay!
    I only bought Morrowind for BattleGrounds, yet would be happy for Pop to rise.

    The biggest improvement that's likely however is the return to NO CP
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
    Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
    Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
    Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach
  • Dottzgaming
    Dottzgaming
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    Nay...
    And let's all agree, Battlegrounds need ranked brackets!! The population isn't low because of rewards, so adjusting AP in next patch won't help, the population isn't low because of BGs being locked behind a paywall, though it might help a little.

    The population is low because of lacking competition. BG leaderboards are just another emperor-like grindfest, play more rank more. No player performance included.

    Agree about the ranked brackets, disagree about BGs being base game.
    BGs are a huge feature and is one of the main selling points behind morrowind. I doubt they'd ever want to remove one of their main selling points for a chapter and make it free

    I'd MUCH rather see Imperial City become bundled with the base game and become free, with players who own it being compensated in some fashion.
  • GoonyGoat
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    By this logic then shouldn't all dlc features become part of the main game after some time (e.g. Maelstorm Arena, etc) I'm def not against the idea though, just a thought
  • Anethum
    Anethum
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    Nay...
    Wraith66 wrote: »
    By this logic then shouldn't all dlc features become part of the main game after some time (e.g. Maelstorm Arena, etc) I'm def not against the idea though, just a thought

    it differs in a hard way.
    Pve including trials is content which will have its population enouch even if only 12 players boughtdlc for that.
    But battlegrounds pupulation is dissapointing even when u meet same person every 3d match.
    Very many players didn't bought morrowind and cannot even test battlegrounds.
    Any demo, any trial version at least.

    But, biggest problem i think is that premade groups fight there with random formed groups without separation.
    Bg lost very many potential players because of uncompetitive format, so they don't want to return.

    I think Bg in a cut version should be a part of basic game. With a huge preferences for Morrowind owners (for monetization of content for creators). But to everyone be able to join them.
    @Anethum from .ua
  • Pr0Skygon
    Pr0Skygon
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    Yay!
    JUST A QUICK UPDATE FOR THIS POST! IT FINALLY COMES TRUE! WE DID IT!
    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/26355?utm_source=SocialMedia&utm_medium=bitly
  • Anethum
    Anethum
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    Nay...
    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    JUST A QUICK UPDATE FOR THIS POST! IT FINALLY COMES TRUE! WE DID IT!
    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/26355?utm_source=SocialMedia&utm_medium=bitly

    i;m really glad Zeni decided to do this at least.
    Hope separation for [ppremades and randoms will come soon also
    @Anethum from .ua
  • EvilKiwi
    EvilKiwi
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    BG's are moving to the base game no dlc needed.
    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/26355
    No Lollygagging.
  • Morgul667
    Morgul667
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    Yay!
    This is cool its open to more people
  • MalakithAlamahdi
    MalakithAlamahdi
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    Yay!
    More people more fun. I bought it at launch and that was my own choice.

    I do think this whole chapter thing is a bunch of bull though. It should've have stayed a DLC like all the others. Maybe put warden behind a paywall of like 2000 crowns or something. (2 months sub, so about the same price as the "chapter"). Simply because I don't like getting told stuff and then have them play with words so they can apply different rules to it.
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