The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 5.1.1 is available. You can find the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of July 15:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – July 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] Xbox One: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – July 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®4: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – July 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
The Scalebreaker DLC game pack and Update 23 base-game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

Powerlash & Searing Strike 3.3.3

  • Kilandros
    Kilandros
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    Feanor wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    brtomkin wrote: »
    beetleklee wrote: »
    I would like Eruption's cost reduced and a damage buff. Eruption takes over 10% of my magicka each rotation.

    Eruption is an AoE. It costs a lot. If you use in a single mob (like a boss), I'm sorry, I completely support the high cost.

    @joaaocaampos

    Lightning Splash (AOE): 3405
    Spear Shard (AOE): 3240
    Path of Darkness (AOE): 3510
    Scorch (AOE): 3240
    Ash Cloud (AOE): 4590

    I support balance.

    Eruption has a much longer duration than these other skills.

    Doesn't it also have lower tool tip damage? I could be wrong but i swear it does less dps than the other main dots in the game...
    also, that longer duration just makes the rotation more of a pain in the @ $$... i have an easier time with nightblade rotations.


    EDIT: just looked up some parses for each class.
    Average liquid lightning = 4-6k
    avg winters revenge = 4-5k
    avg twisting path = 4-5k
    avg ash cloud = 2-3k

    Ash Cloud also adds utility because of the powerful snare, that’s why a lower damage is justified.

    5m radius, It's a joke in PvP.

    You don't even have to dodge roll out of that, it takes like two steps to get out of it.

    They should increase the damage by 50% atleast (would still deal less DPS than Caltrops for instance) and radius to 10 meters (2m more than Caltrops). Perhaps have the damage start low, then ramp up (similar to Venomous Claw), that'd make it actually dangerous in PvP with big ticks at the end.

    Perhaps you may care to elaborate why Lightning Splash was mentioned as a way better skill then? It’s ineffecient in PvP too. I concede though it’s very strong in PvE.

    Both are garbage in PvP, LL is better in PvE than Eruption.

    Well Duke, that brings us back to the class kit. Should the DK be able to annihilate anything in melee range while being untouchable by ranged? Because that’s what the proposed changes that get thrown around here would boil down to.

    Non sequitur.
    Invictus
    Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
    Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
    Sias - Sorcerer / Prefect
    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Feanor wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    brtomkin wrote: »
    beetleklee wrote: »
    I would like Eruption's cost reduced and a damage buff. Eruption takes over 10% of my magicka each rotation.

    Eruption is an AoE. It costs a lot. If you use in a single mob (like a boss), I'm sorry, I completely support the high cost.

    @joaaocaampos

    Lightning Splash (AOE): 3405
    Spear Shard (AOE): 3240
    Path of Darkness (AOE): 3510
    Scorch (AOE): 3240
    Ash Cloud (AOE): 4590

    I support balance.

    Eruption has a much longer duration than these other skills.

    Doesn't it also have lower tool tip damage? I could be wrong but i swear it does less dps than the other main dots in the game...
    also, that longer duration just makes the rotation more of a pain in the @ $$... i have an easier time with nightblade rotations.


    EDIT: just looked up some parses for each class.
    Average liquid lightning = 4-6k
    avg winters revenge = 4-5k
    avg twisting path = 4-5k
    avg ash cloud = 2-3k

    Ash Cloud also adds utility because of the powerful snare, that’s why a lower damage is justified.

    5m radius, It's a joke in PvP.

    You don't even have to dodge roll out of that, it takes like two steps to get out of it.

    They should increase the damage by 50% atleast (would still deal less DPS than Caltrops for instance) and radius to 10 meters (2m more than Caltrops). Perhaps have the damage start low, then ramp up (similar to Venomous Claw), that'd make it actually dangerous in PvP with big ticks at the end.

    Perhaps you may care to elaborate why Lightning Splash was mentioned as a way better skill then? It’s ineffecient in PvP too. I concede though it’s very strong in PvE.

    Both are garbage in PvP, LL is better in PvE than Eruption.

    Well Duke, that brings us back to the class kit. Should the DK be able to annihilate anything in melee range while being untouchable by ranged? Because that’s what the proposed changes that get thrown around here would boil down to.

    Well, I believe that's why they're fixing Power Lash & Embers and making them dodgeable.

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.


    The reason you see people complaining about this however is that not every mDK plays a build that can annihilate anything in melee range - some play tankier builds that simply don't have enough dmg output to deal with things like, say, Troll King.

    For this reason I think these builds should have stronger skills that allow them to get kills & feel powerful with their tanking playstyle, e.g. Ash Cloud having bigger radius, dealing more dmg, Talons dealing more dmg etc - these are skills not slotted by high dmg destro/resto builds.


    As long as there aren't buffs to the high dmg mDKs that actually do annihilate everything in melee range currently, it should be fine.
    Edited by DDuke on January 31, 2018 5:59PM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    Now we're following the same path.
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Feanor wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    brtomkin wrote: »
    beetleklee wrote: »
    I would like Eruption's cost reduced and a damage buff. Eruption takes over 10% of my magicka each rotation.

    Eruption is an AoE. It costs a lot. If you use in a single mob (like a boss), I'm sorry, I completely support the high cost.

    @joaaocaampos

    Lightning Splash (AOE): 3405
    Spear Shard (AOE): 3240
    Path of Darkness (AOE): 3510
    Scorch (AOE): 3240
    Ash Cloud (AOE): 4590

    I support balance.

    Eruption has a much longer duration than these other skills.

    Doesn't it also have lower tool tip damage? I could be wrong but i swear it does less dps than the other main dots in the game...
    also, that longer duration just makes the rotation more of a pain in the @ $$... i have an easier time with nightblade rotations.


    EDIT: just looked up some parses for each class.
    Average liquid lightning = 4-6k
    avg winters revenge = 4-5k
    avg twisting path = 4-5k
    avg ash cloud = 2-3k

    Ash Cloud also adds utility because of the powerful snare, that’s why a lower damage is justified.

    5m radius, It's a joke in PvP.

    You don't even have to dodge roll out of that, it takes like two steps to get out of it.

    They should increase the damage by 50% atleast (would still deal less DPS than Caltrops for instance) and radius to 10 meters (2m more than Caltrops). Perhaps have the damage start low, then ramp up (similar to Venomous Claw), that'd make it actually dangerous in PvP with big ticks at the end.

    Perhaps you may care to elaborate why Lightning Splash was mentioned as a way better skill then? It’s ineffecient in PvP too. I concede though it’s very strong in PvE.

    Both are garbage in PvP, LL is better in PvE than Eruption.

    Well Duke, that brings us back to the class kit. Should the DK be able to annihilate anything in melee range while being untouchable by ranged? Because that’s what the proposed changes that get thrown around here would boil down to.

    It wouldn't be more annihilation than a warden or an NB. A tank DK deals so little damage it is pathetic. And then to actually deal damage you would have to run light and be exceptionally squishy.

    My personal idea of 4s and 3 projectiles per target would be far from "untouchable" because there are so many on target abilities, dots, AoEs, etc. And any 1v1 would technically be better off, with it being less sustainable. It'd only be buffed in 1vX, which is where DK is really needing a buff due to low mobility/sustain.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • FlamingBeard
    FlamingBeard
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    Feanor wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    brtomkin wrote: »
    beetleklee wrote: »
    I would like Eruption's cost reduced and a damage buff. Eruption takes over 10% of my magicka each rotation.

    Eruption is an AoE. It costs a lot. If you use in a single mob (like a boss), I'm sorry, I completely support the high cost.

    @joaaocaampos

    Lightning Splash (AOE): 3405
    Spear Shard (AOE): 3240
    Path of Darkness (AOE): 3510
    Scorch (AOE): 3240
    Ash Cloud (AOE): 4590

    I support balance.

    Eruption has a much longer duration than these other skills.

    Doesn't it also have lower tool tip damage? I could be wrong but i swear it does less dps than the other main dots in the game...
    also, that longer duration just makes the rotation more of a pain in the @ $$... i have an easier time with nightblade rotations.


    EDIT: just looked up some parses for each class.
    Average liquid lightning = 4-6k
    avg winters revenge = 4-5k
    avg twisting path = 4-5k
    avg ash cloud = 2-3k

    Ash Cloud also adds utility because of the powerful snare, that’s why a lower damage is justified.

    5m radius, It's a joke in PvP.

    You don't even have to dodge roll out of that, it takes like two steps to get out of it.

    They should increase the damage by 50% atleast (would still deal less DPS than Caltrops for instance) and radius to 10 meters (2m more than Caltrops). Perhaps have the damage start low, then ramp up (similar to Venomous Claw), that'd make it actually dangerous in PvP with big ticks at the end.

    Perhaps you may care to elaborate why Lightning Splash was mentioned as a way better skill then? It’s ineffecient in PvP too. I concede though it’s very strong in PvE.

    Both are garbage in PvP, LL is better in PvE than Eruption.

    Well Duke, that brings us back to the class kit. Should the DK be able to annihilate anything in melee range while being untouchable by ranged? Because that’s what the proposed changes that get thrown around here would boil down to.

    Wardens can do exactly this but you aren't complaining about them and they even have better healing and sustain + mobility than magDK (and more melee burst damage in a short period)...

    If you want to fight a magDK with little issue, play a Templar.

    DK has always been made to draw opponents into melee range if they want to get kills, at the risk of being damaged themselves... that's literally the entire playstyle of the class.

    It's a lot more expensive for a DK to spam wings and heals than it is for a Sorcerer to do a damage and shield stack rotation, so as long as you stay out of melee range, you should get nowhere near death against a magDK. The fact that a magDK has wings slotted means they're sacrificing a damage skill slot in the first place so they're less likely to kill you unless you're mindlessly spamming projectiles.

    Please, for the love of the Divines, be constructive.
    Edited by FlamingBeard on January 31, 2018 6:37PM
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png



  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick, Rev Slice if I were to guess. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol
    Edited by DDuke on January 31, 2018 11:45PM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    The second is not a dot tick by the way, look at the timestamp, it's the portion of the reverse slice that was still absorbed by the remaining shield.
    Edited by Sharee on January 31, 2018 11:48PM
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    Yes, because that 6,9k was either Shalks, a heavy attack or POTL going off. That's not spammable damage and the total damage you took (16 688) is easily survivable. Next step: Fossilize->FL->Leap->PL->dead stam build.

    If you were to Healing Ward again after that, the Healing Ward would also be significantly stronger (as it also scales based on missing health).
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    ✭✭
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    The second is not a dot tick by the way, look at the timestamp, it's the portion of the reverse slice that was still absorbed by the remaining shield.

    So what's the point of this post?

    That is not some magical happenstance that only happens to Mag DKs.
    0331
    0602
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    Yes, because that 6,9k was either Shalks, a heavy attack or POTL going off. That's not spammable damage and the total damage you took (16 688) is easily survivable. Next step: Fossilize->FL->Leap->PL->dead stam build.

    If you were to Healing Ward again after that, the Healing Ward would also be significantly stronger (as it also scales based on missing health).

    Next step: I am already dead. That reverse slice was the killing blow.
  • FlamingBeard
    FlamingBeard
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    The second is not a dot tick by the way, look at the timestamp, it's the portion of the reverse slice that was still absorbed by the remaining shield.

    So what's the point of this post?

    That is not some magical happenstance that only happens to Mag DKs.

    magDKs are more vulnerable to pressure because they have no self-sufficient mobility, only an iffy gap closer and an ultimate gap closer.

    They have nothing to escape with aside from Elusive Mist which you can still be snared during so it's pretty much the worst mobility skill you can be limited to using.

    Dodgerollers shouldn't have any worse of a time fighting a magDK unless the dodgerollers only build for damage, which a lot of dodgerollers do and then become upset when they die due to their squishy build which has a lot of damage but is vulnerable to revenge kills.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    The second is not a dot tick by the way, look at the timestamp, it's the portion of the reverse slice that was still absorbed by the remaining shield.

    So what's the point of this post?

    That is not some magical happenstance that only happens to Mag DKs.

    The point is, how the heck can someone consider that fight "incredibly onesided in my favor".
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    Yes, because that 6,9k was either Shalks, a heavy attack or POTL going off. That's not spammable damage and the total damage you took (16 688) is easily survivable. Next step: Fossilize->FL->Leap->PL->dead stam build.

    If you were to Healing Ward again after that, the Healing Ward would also be significantly stronger (as it also scales based on missing health).

    Next step: I am already dead. That reverse slice was the killing blow.

    Something you're doing wrong then.

    25k health, 61 Ironclad, 27 Hardy 48% Crit Resistance <unburstable in 1v1
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • FlamingBeard
    FlamingBeard
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    Yes, because that 6,9k was either Shalks, a heavy attack or POTL going off. That's not spammable damage and the total damage you took (16 688) is easily survivable. Next step: Fossilize->FL->Leap->PL->dead stam build.

    If you were to Healing Ward again after that, the Healing Ward would also be significantly stronger (as it also scales based on missing health).

    Next step: I am already dead. That reverse slice was the killing blow.

    Something you're doing wrong then.

    25k health, 61 Ironclad, 27 Hardy 48% Crit Resistance <unburstable in 1v1

    You're not taking into account that the better stamina builds will have defiles and snares aplenty, which completely negates what little movement magDK has, as well as its poor healing under pressure.

    You keep repeating this magical fantasy scenario where the build you're fighting has 2k weapon damage and 70%+ weapon crit somehow.

    Raw damage is much more powerful than crit in CP PvP and magDK is especially vulnerable to it in light armor.
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    ✭✭
    Sharee wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    The second is not a dot tick by the way, look at the timestamp, it's the portion of the reverse slice that was still absorbed by the remaining shield.

    So what's the point of this post?

    That is not some magical happenstance that only happens to Mag DKs.

    The point is, how the heck can someone consider that fight "incredibly onesided in my favor".

    Mike Tyson vs. Buster Douglas is and always will be incredibly one-sided on paper in favor of Tyson. If you are unaware of what I'm talking about, Mike Tyson was brutalized and demolished over 10 rounds by Buster Douglas, a 42-1 underdog. Mag DKs are the favorite over anything that needs to get into melee - perhaps drawing even with DW stamplar.

    You lost because, simply put, you were ill-prepared to deal with your opponent.
    Edited by usmcjdking on February 1, 2018 12:18AM
    0331
    0602
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    Yes, because that 6,9k was either Shalks, a heavy attack or POTL going off. That's not spammable damage and the total damage you took (16 688) is easily survivable. Next step: Fossilize->FL->Leap->PL->dead stam build.

    If you were to Healing Ward again after that, the Healing Ward would also be significantly stronger (as it also scales based on missing health).

    Next step: I am already dead. That reverse slice was the killing blow.

    Something you're doing wrong then.

    25k health, 61 Ironclad, 27 Hardy 48% Crit Resistance <unburstable in 1v1

    24.5K health, 56 ironclad(so 1% worse than you), 43 hardy(3% better than you), a bit less crit resistance (2757) but most of the damage was against a shield anyway.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    The second is not a dot tick by the way, look at the timestamp, it's the portion of the reverse slice that was still absorbed by the remaining shield.

    So what's the point of this post?

    That is not some magical happenstance that only happens to Mag DKs.

    The point is, how the heck can someone consider that fight "incredibly onesided in my favor".

    Mike Tyson vs. Buster Douglas is and always will be incredibly one-sided on paper in favor of Tyson. If you are unaware of what I'm talking about, Mike Tyson was brutalized and demolished over 10 rounds by Buster Douglas, a 42-1 underdog. Mag DKs are the favorite over anything that needs to get into melee - perhaps drawing even with DW stamplar.

    You lost because, simply put, you were ill-prepared to deal with your opponent.

    Simply put, you have absolutely no *** idea about what actually happened in that fight.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    Yes, because that 6,9k was either Shalks, a heavy attack or POTL going off. That's not spammable damage and the total damage you took (16 688) is easily survivable. Next step: Fossilize->FL->Leap->PL->dead stam build.

    If you were to Healing Ward again after that, the Healing Ward would also be significantly stronger (as it also scales based on missing health).

    Next step: I am already dead. That reverse slice was the killing blow.

    Something you're doing wrong then.

    25k health, 61 Ironclad, 27 Hardy 48% Crit Resistance <unburstable in 1v1

    You're not taking into account that the better stamina builds will have defiles and snares aplenty, which completely negates what little movement magDK has, as well as its poor healing under pressure.

    You keep repeating this magical fantasy scenario where the build you're fighting has 2k weapon damage and 70%+ weapon crit somehow.

    Raw damage is much more powerful than crit in CP PvP and magDK is especially vulnerable to it in light armor.

    No, that's unburstable as in vs 5x Spriggan, 5x Alchemist, 1x Kra'gh & 1x Kena (highest dmg gank setup I could calculate).


    Resto builds don't care about Defile since they've got Healing Ward.


    I get hit by Assassin's Will->Incap followed by Surprise Attack/Killer's Blade, I live, I Healing Ward (or resto ulti if it's a 1vX fight)->Fossilize->FL->PL->fight is already over.


    Haven't lost a single 1v1 against a medium armor build, haven't seen any live over 20-30 seconds either during the 400-500'ish hours I've played PvP this patch.
    Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2018 12:26AM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    Yes, because that 6,9k was either Shalks, a heavy attack or POTL going off. That's not spammable damage and the total damage you took (16 688) is easily survivable. Next step: Fossilize->FL->Leap->PL->dead stam build.

    If you were to Healing Ward again after that, the Healing Ward would also be significantly stronger (as it also scales based on missing health).

    Next step: I am already dead. That reverse slice was the killing blow.

    Something you're doing wrong then.

    25k health, 61 Ironclad, 27 Hardy 48% Crit Resistance <unburstable in 1v1

    24.5K health, 56 ironclad(so 1% worse than you), 43 hardy(3% better than you), a bit less crit resistance (2757) but most of the damage was against a shield anyway.

    What player was that? I can promise you I can beat that player in less than 20 seconds if he's medium armor (not heavy). I'll give away all my 10 million gold if I don't.

    Because it's not even theoretically possible to burst down a mDK with that setup. You have to mess up in a big way to lose to a medium armor scrub.
    Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2018 12:29AM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • usmcjdking
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    The second is not a dot tick by the way, look at the timestamp, it's the portion of the reverse slice that was still absorbed by the remaining shield.

    So what's the point of this post?

    That is not some magical happenstance that only happens to Mag DKs.

    magDKs are more vulnerable to pressure because they have no self-sufficient mobility, only an iffy gap closer and an ultimate gap closer.

    They have nothing to escape with aside from Elusive Mist which you can still be snared during so it's pretty much the worst mobility skill you can be limited to using.

    Dodgerollers shouldn't have any worse of a time fighting a magDK unless the dodgerollers only build for damage, which a lot of dodgerollers do and then become upset when they die due to their squishy build which has a lot of damage but is vulnerable to revenge kills.

    Is there an objective opinion here? Are mag DKs unable to gain major expedition or utilize dodge roll or sprint?
    Or snare immunity/removal?

    Who/what are we referencing as "dodge rollers"? AFAIK the only effective dodge roll build is that of stamblade. No other class will build towards the regen and resource requirements to support excessive roll dodging. If that's the case then why don't you just say your gripe is how stamblade performs against everything in a stamblade thread?
    0331
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  • usmcjdking
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    Sharee wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.

    Sometimes it just feels like we are playing a different game:

    9QopxJ.png

    Looks like DoT tick, heavy attack, DoT tick. What is that picture supposed to prove? Besides that whoever you're fighting has extremely low weapon damage (or you were way above execute range). My Flame Lash hits harder than that Rev Slice lol

    He removed a freshly cast 12k healing ward along with a quarter of my hitpoints in 170 milliseconds. And this is a fight incredibly onesided in my favor?

    The second is not a dot tick by the way, look at the timestamp, it's the portion of the reverse slice that was still absorbed by the remaining shield.

    So what's the point of this post?

    That is not some magical happenstance that only happens to Mag DKs.

    The point is, how the heck can someone consider that fight "incredibly onesided in my favor".

    Mike Tyson vs. Buster Douglas is and always will be incredibly one-sided on paper in favor of Tyson. If you are unaware of what I'm talking about, Mike Tyson was brutalized and demolished over 10 rounds by Buster Douglas, a 42-1 underdog. Mag DKs are the favorite over anything that needs to get into melee - perhaps drawing even with DW stamplar.

    You lost because, simply put, you were ill-prepared to deal with your opponent.

    Simply put, you have absolutely no *** idea about what actually happened in that fight.

    Yes I do.

    You died to a build (assuming you are facing the build you are informally referencing) that does not pair up well against what is presumably a Mag DK. It's your fight to lose.
    0331
    0602
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    DDuke wrote: »

    Because it's not even theoretically possible to burst down a mDK with that setup. You have to mess up in a big way to lose to a medium armor scrub.

    I lived through some heavy damage, cast a healing ward as you do when at low HP, and promptly got oneshot through it.

    If that is messing up, then i guess i messed up.

  • DDuke
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    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Because it's not even theoretically possible to burst down a mDK with that setup. You have to mess up in a big way to lose to a medium armor scrub.

    I lived through some heavy damage, cast a healing ward as you do when at low HP, and promptly got oneshot through it.

    If that is messing up, then i guess i messed up.

    I don't remember ever having my Healing Ward blown up by one rotation from one player, still if I've taken heavy dmg I tend to block cast it just in case.

    The healing+shield should eaaasily deal with even 2-4 players. Are you sure that person who cast Structured Entropy at you didn't also hit you with something?
    Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2018 12:50AM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    It is not one sided to mDK. Medium builds have and can win against mDK just as fine as mDKs can kill glass cannon med builds. Well built medium builds are harder to kill than a heavy build due to sheer amount of damage and sustain allowing them to heal virtually untouched unless mDK itself is stacking up damage. But when mDK focuses on damage stacking, it will die sooner or later due to lack of sustain and/or tankiness. Usually damage stacked mDKs tend to die just after dizzying (or whatever spammable they use) -> Dawnbreaker -> Execute. Takes like 2 to 3 seconds. This is why mDKs run s/b most of the times as it is their only real source of mitigation through blocking.

    Even defense focused builds can be bursted in 2-3 seconds in light armor the moment pressure amounts (usually resources are gone through poison and in trying to deal with the pressure). Also, medium armor DoT builds with bleeding that goes through any resistance is very much a killer as well. Cannot heal through that damage pretty much. It is like a defile that makes mDK waste their magicka pool real fast trying to survive. It is not really one sided in mDK's favor.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • DDuke
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    It is not one sided to mDK. Medium builds have and can win against mDK just as fine as mDKs can kill glass cannon med builds. Well built medium builds are harder to kill than a heavy build due to sheer amount of damage and sustain allowing them to heal virtually untouched unless mDK itself is stacking up damage. But when mDK focuses on damage stacking, it will die sooner or later due to lack of sustain and/or tankiness. Usually damage stacked mDKs tend to die just after dizzying (or whatever spammable they use) -> Dawnbreaker -> Execute. Takes like 2 to 3 seconds. This is why mDKs run s/b most of the times as it is their only real source of mitigation through blocking.

    Even defense focused builds can be bursted in 2-3 seconds in light armor the moment pressure amounts (usually resources are gone through poison and in trying to deal with the pressure). Also, medium armor DoT builds with bleeding that goes through any resistance is very much a killer as well. Cannot heal through that damage pretty much. It is like a defile that makes mDK waste their magicka pool real fast trying to survive. It is not really one sided in mDK's favor.

    Right, except the maximum potential burst you can take in 5/1/1 light armor (no S&B) is 19k, and your Healing Ward (only dmg shield in the game that scales also with spell dmg) outheals/shields entire rotations from your opponent. Not that these builds ever really get to go on offensive (unless they're Xv1'ing, as usual, in which case you shield/fossilize spam until you've got ulti & then kill them all).

    It takes one Fossilize to turn the whole fight around once you've CC break'd their Incap/whatever & Healing Warded.

    I can understand immobile S&B builds having trouble killing (maybe even surviving if there's Defile) medium armor builds if they have Troll King, but not high dmg mDKs.

    It's the most onesided fight in the entire game at the moment, you'd have better chances against mDK as a naked magicka sorcerer.
    Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2018 1:10AM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • DDuke
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    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Because it's not even theoretically possible to burst down a mDK with that setup. You have to mess up in a big way to lose to a medium armor scrub.

    I lived through some heavy damage, cast a healing ward as you do when at low HP, and promptly got oneshot through it.

    If that is messing up, then i guess i messed up.

    I just calculated the highest possible Rev Slice you can take (with shield up)

    Gear: 5x Spriggan 5x Alchemist 1x Kena
    Buffs: Major Brutality, Alchemist, Minor Berserk, Incap +20% Dmg, Weapon Damage Enchant, Minor Vulnerability
    Total Damage Modifier: 64%
    Crit Modifier: 72%

    Rev Slice tooltip: 7855x3(maximum scaling)=23 565+8%(Minor Vulnerability)=25 450

    ...and when we add Battle Spirit+defensive CPs (https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6): 9,131.460 dmg (no crit, no mitigation counted as we're talking about dmg shield)

    Assuming you have pretty much zero mitigation (spriggan+major fracture+37 points in piercing), by adding 24% crit modifier (what remains after 48% crit mitigation) we get: 11 322 dmg on armor, 5660 if you're blocking.

    Edit: note that for maximum Rev Slice bonus you'd need to be around 15% I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong here), at 30-50% health you shouldn't be taking nearly that much damage.
    Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2018 1:28AM
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  • Quantum_V
    Quantum_V
    Class Representative
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    brtomkin wrote: »
    beetleklee wrote: »
    I would like Eruption's cost reduced and a damage buff. Eruption takes over 10% of my magicka each rotation.

    Eruption is an AoE. It costs a lot. If you use in a single mob (like a boss), I'm sorry, I completely support the high cost.

    @joaaocaampos

    Lightning Splash (AOE): 3405
    Spear Shard (AOE): 3240
    Path of Darkness (AOE): 3510
    Scorch (AOE): 3240
    Ash Cloud (AOE): 4590

    I support balance.

    Eruption has a much longer duration than these other skills.

    Doesn't it also have lower tool tip damage? I could be wrong but i swear it does less dps than the other main dots in the game...
    also, that longer duration just makes the rotation more of a pain in the @ $$... i have an easier time with nightblade rotations.


    EDIT: just looked up some parses for each class.
    Average liquid lightning = 4-6k
    avg winters revenge = 4-5k
    avg twisting path = 4-5k
    avg ash cloud = 2-3k

    Ash Cloud also adds utility because of the powerful snare, that’s why a lower damage is justified.

    5m radius, It's a joke in PvP.

    You don't even have to dodge roll out of that, it takes like two steps to get out of it.

    They should increase the damage by 50% atleast (would still deal less DPS than Caltrops for instance) and radius to 10 meters (2m more than Caltrops). Perhaps have the damage start low, then ramp up (similar to Venomous Claw), that'd make it actually dangerous in PvP with big ticks at the end.

    Perhaps you may care to elaborate why Lightning Splash was mentioned as a way better skill then? It’s ineffecient in PvP too. I concede though it’s very strong in PvE.

    Both are garbage in PvP, LL is better in PvE than Eruption.

    Well Duke, that brings us back to the class kit. Should the DK be able to annihilate anything in melee range while being untouchable by ranged? Because that’s what the proposed changes that get thrown around here would boil down to.

    Well, I believe that's why they're fixing Power Lash & Embers and making them dodgeable.

    Should help a little, though based on my PTS testing fights vs dodge rollers are still incredibly onesided in favour of the mDK.


    The reason you see people complaining about this however is that not every mDK plays a build that can annihilate anything in melee range - some play tankier builds that simply don't have enough dmg output to deal with things like, say, Troll King.

    For this reason I think these builds should have stronger skills that allow them to get kills & feel powerful with their tanking playstyle, e.g. Ash Cloud having bigger radius, dealing more dmg, Talons dealing more dmg etc - these are skills not slotted by high dmg destro/resto builds.


    As long as there aren't buffs to the high dmg mDKs that actually do annihilate everything in melee range currently, it should be fine.

    Now we're talking. Agreed with you here.
    Quantum - Magicka DK

    Youtube Channel

  • FlamingBeard
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    DDuke wrote: »
    It is not one sided to mDK. Medium builds have and can win against mDK just as fine as mDKs can kill glass cannon med builds. Well built medium builds are harder to kill than a heavy build due to sheer amount of damage and sustain allowing them to heal virtually untouched unless mDK itself is stacking up damage. But when mDK focuses on damage stacking, it will die sooner or later due to lack of sustain and/or tankiness. Usually damage stacked mDKs tend to die just after dizzying (or whatever spammable they use) -> Dawnbreaker -> Execute. Takes like 2 to 3 seconds. This is why mDKs run s/b most of the times as it is their only real source of mitigation through blocking.

    Even defense focused builds can be bursted in 2-3 seconds in light armor the moment pressure amounts (usually resources are gone through poison and in trying to deal with the pressure). Also, medium armor DoT builds with bleeding that goes through any resistance is very much a killer as well. Cannot heal through that damage pretty much. It is like a defile that makes mDK waste their magicka pool real fast trying to survive. It is not really one sided in mDK's favor.

    Right, except the maximum potential burst you can take in 5/1/1 light armor (no S&B) is 19k, and your Healing Ward (only dmg shield in the game that scales also with spell dmg) outheals/shields entire rotations from your opponent. Not that these builds ever really get to go on offensive (unless they're Xv1'ing, as usual, in which case you shield/fossilize spam until you've got ulti & then kill them all).

    It takes one Fossilize to turn the whole fight around once you've CC break'd their Incap/whatever & Healing Warded.

    I can understand immobile S&B builds having trouble killing (maybe even surviving if there's Defile) medium armor builds if they have Troll King, but not high dmg mDKs.

    It's the most onesided fight in the entire game at the moment, you'd have better chances against mDK as a naked magicka sorcerer.

    Have you never fought an Immovability Troll King Eternal Hunt Dodgeblade?

    Use a better build on your Nightblade if you seriously have that much trouble against magDKs.

    They are not the counter to medium builds that you seem to think they are, and they certainly can't have BOTH the damage to kill those medium builds AND the bulk to survive their burst, as well as they sustain to spam Healing Ward as you like to advocate.

    Fight some ACTUAL good medium builds and not random pugs you asked to let you smack them with your Flame Lash until they die and call it a "combat test."

    You have posted nothing but negativity and contrarian, edgy word vomit in EVERY magDK thread.

    Cease derailment or cease talking.
    Edited by FlamingBeard on February 1, 2018 1:51AM
  • Savos_Saren
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    Because it's not even theoretically possible to burst down a mDK with that setup. You have to mess up in a big way to lose to a medium armor scrub.

    I lived through some heavy damage, cast a healing ward as you do when at low HP, and promptly got oneshot through it.

    If that is messing up, then i guess i messed up.

    I just calculated the highest possible Rev Slice you can take (with shield up)

    Gear: 5x Spriggan 5x Alchemist 1x Kena
    Buffs: Major Brutality, Alchemist, Minor Berserk, Incap +20% Dmg, Weapon Damage Enchant, Minor Vulnerability
    Total Damage Modifier: 64%
    Crit Modifier: 72%

    Rev Slice tooltip: 7855x3(maximum scaling)=23 565+8%(Minor Vulnerability)=25 450

    ...and when we add Battle Spirit+defensive CPs (https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6): 9,131.460 dmg (no crit, no mitigation counted as we're talking about dmg shield)

    Assuming you have pretty much zero mitigation (spriggan+major fracture+37 points in piercing), by adding 24% crit modifier (what remains after 48% crit mitigation) we get: 11 322 dmg on armor, 5660 if you're blocking.

    Edit: note that for maximum Rev Slice bonus you'd need to be around 15% I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong here), at 30-50% health you shouldn't be taking nearly that much damage.

    @DDuke

    Are the enemy's CP calculated in there? Wouldn't the opponent have 75 Mighty, 81 Master at Arms, 51 Precise Strikes, and 23 Piercing.

    So: They'd have 14% extra damage, 24% extra direct damage, 19% extra crit, and 2149 more penetration on top of Spriggans.
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

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    Savos Saren
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