Not practically standing still and being able to still dodge

Jake1576

How is it players are able to stand still and say an attack like crystal frags or snipe and it say dodge dodge dodge shuffle is broken fix it already

Ackwalan

Dodge does not mean the character moved and jumped out of the way. Dodge is a % chance + any modifiers.

ArchMikem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKPuQ_2X9U

You can even see me hesitate after the third one, full "what the Hell even?" mode.

Girl_Number8

It's essential to PvP and medium armor builds, that are rather squishy. An there is a lot they can't dodge, focus on that.

ArchMikem

Make Dodge Chance only apply to a character that's moving. If the player stands still for more than five seconds, Dodge Chance drops to 0%.

There, I fixed the issue.

Nyladreas

Funny how this never works on me. Yet i see people dodge 20 attacks in a row.

bardx86

ArchMikem wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKPuQ_2X9U

You can even see me hesitate after the third one, full "what the Hell even?" mode.

Whatever the mechanics are, this is just silly.

RavenSworn

ArchMikem wrote: »

Make Dodge Chance only apply to a character that's moving. If the player stands still for more than five seconds, Dodge Chance drops to 0%.

There, I fixed the issue.

I like it if that happens but that would ruin pve. Tavas favor, hist bark all will be nerfed to the ground because tanks have to be twitchy in dungeons and raids.

They really have to differentiate the two scenes, it's frustrating.

Jake1576

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Jake1576

ArchMikem wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKPuQ_2X9U

You can even see me hesitate after the third one, full "what the Hell even?" mode.

This is exactly what i'm talking about this is what i experienced that made me want to make this forum post thanks for sharing this video it's outrageous something like this is even in the game glad to know other ppl think this is ridiculous also shuffle is broken or something it needs to be changed

ArchMikem wrote: »

Make Dodge Chance only apply to a character that's moving. If the player stands still for more than five seconds, Dodge Chance drops to 0%.

There, I fixed the issue.

Good idea

Vostorn

RavenSworn wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Make Dodge Chance only apply to a character that's moving. If the player stands still for more than five seconds, Dodge Chance drops to 0%.

There, I fixed the issue.

I like it if that happens but that would ruin pve. Tavas favor, hist bark all will be nerfed to the ground because tanks have to be twitchy in dungeons and raids.

They really have to differentiate the two scenes, it's frustrating.

Just add "no ability cast nor LA/HA landed" to the stand still. Problem solved.

Or even further : only working when not attacking/being attacked. After all, standing still doing nothing is like not paying attention to what happens and so not being able to dodge. Obviously, once you are hardly hit, you then pay attention to what happens (unless you are disoriented).

This wouldn't be an issue in PVE at all but would garantie that an ambush on idling players cannot be dodged.

Imho, I'm more on something like "attacks from stealthed/invisible cannot be dodged". After all, how can you dodge something that you can't see ?

Ch4mpTW

ArchMikem wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKPuQ_2X9U

You can even see me hesitate after the third one, full "what the Hell even?" mode.

Wow. This is absolutely ridiculous. This is a perfect example as to why I can never take ESO PvP remotely seriously. Let alone anyone who tries to claim they do so “competitively”. Something like what you encountered in that clip would cause me to close the game, and start playing a new game to blow-off some steam. That’s just goofy.

This reminds me of how I can have a Nightblade rooted from my Talons, but it’ll say, “Miss.” constantly. Even though the person is rooted, and is still locked in place. Only for me to Fossilize them, and continue applying CC’s and snares on them. Just miss after miss.

Jake1576

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKPuQ_2X9U

You can even see me hesitate after the third one, full "what the Hell even?" mode.

Wow. This is absolutely ridiculous. This is a perfect example as to why I can never take ESO PvP remotely seriously. Let alone anyone who tries to claim they do so “competitively”. Something like what you encountered in that clip would cause me to close the game, and start playing a new game to blow-off some steam. That’s just goofy.

This reminds me of how I can have a Nightblade rooted from my Talons, but it’ll say, “Miss.” constantly. Even though the person is rooted, and is still locked in place. Only for me to Fossilize them, and continue applying CC’s and snares on them. Just miss after miss.

I won't lie I've thrown my controller a few times because of stuff like this it just makes no sense lol

Apache_Kid

Try playing medium armor build without dodge chance and then tell me it needs to be changed.

Kiralyn2000

I guess this is the difference between RPG (PvE?) players and action game players? RPG players are used to game mechanics with %-chance happening, whereas action game players prefer everything to be decided by actual player-action and hit-box-interaction mechanics.

Or something like that. Or not.

(not to say that it wasn't somewhat annoying in low-level Morrowind to swing a dozen times at something and only see one hit)


But yeah - in many PvE MMOs "dodge%" and "deflect%" are really, really important aspects of tanking. You can't just take a chainsaw to those mechanics for the sake of PvP. (just one more reason why PvP needs to be separate from PvE in games, so that adjustments to one side doesn't mangle the other)

Jake1576

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Try playing medium armor build without dodge chance and then tell me it needs to be changed.

I do actually and I can say from experience that I die a lot lol. But that still doesn't make this right. I don't see how this even makes any sense. Either make medium armor players have another way of defending themselves besides dodge. Or do something about shuffle where you can't use it while Standing still. Just my opinion this sort of stuff can make someone so frustrated.

Hurtfan

I think if you're rooted you should have 0% chance to dodge as well

brandonv516

Good video above. I've been on the other end of that too where the game lags and all the snipes come at once lol.

Ratzkifal

RavenSworn wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Make Dodge Chance only apply to a character that's moving. If the player stands still for more than five seconds, Dodge Chance drops to 0%.

There, I fixed the issue.

I like it if that happens but that would ruin pve. Tavas favor, hist bark all will be nerfed to the ground because tanks have to be twitchy in dungeons and raids.

They really have to differentiate the two scenes, it's frustrating.

Are you talking about medium armor tanks or NB tanks? Warden tanks perhaps? Remember, you need 5 pieces of medium armor now if you want to use the skill. Most tanks can't make use of Tava anymore. Running both histbark and Tava is already considered selfish in raids as it doesn't benefit the group a lot. 4player dungeons are something else, but you can make almost anything work there.

Ratzkifal

As a thought, why not give them the sorc shield treatment? 6 seconds duration with a higher dodge chance to compensate or something. They will run out of resources and can evetually be killed too.

Biro123

If that wasn't on console, people would be shouting CE/Macro's etc..

Looks very odd though - so many in a row. I mean statistically it can happen, but what are the chances? (although I think the last dodge was an actual dodge-roll)


What are the 'Miss' messages though? Dodge is one thing, but how do you miss? Cloak maybe?

Apache_Kid

Jake1576 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Try playing medium armor build without dodge chance and then tell me it needs to be changed.

I do actually and I can say from experience that I die a lot lol. But that still doesn't make this right. I don't see how this even makes any sense. Either make medium armor players have another way of defending themselves besides dodge. Or do something about shuffle where you can't use it while Standing still. Just my opinion this sort of stuff can make someone so frustrated.

You just proved my point!

If you wana talk about totally re-working medium armor to have a different form of defense then thats a whole different conversation. However, seeing as how I don't envision an armor re-design anytime soon medium armor definitely does NOT need a nerf to dodge chance. It is the worst overall armor choice out of all 3 in Cyrodiil at the moment. I'm not saying it needs a buff but it does not need a nerf.

Jake1576

ArchMikem wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKPuQ_2X9U

You can even see me hesitate after the third one, full "what the Hell even?" mode.

I just can't get over this video it's hysterical how something like this is even in the game lol

Jake1576

Biro123 wrote: »

If that wasn't on console, people would be shouting CE/Macro's etc..

Looks very odd though - so many in a row. I mean statistically it can happen, but what are the chances? (although I think the last dodge was an actual dodge-roll)


What are the 'Miss' messages though? Dodge is one thing, but how do you miss? Cloak maybe?

Yeah the miss one is cloak I believe

LordSemaj

ArchMikem wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKPuQ_2X9U

You can even see me hesitate after the third one, full "what the Hell even?" mode.

Even if we discount the possibility of CE being used to hack one's dodge chance to 90%+, with ZOS's servers seeming to love never checking whether something is statistically possible like multiple crits in a row, this sort of thing has happened a lot before. Maybe most of the hackers or exploiters died down or maybe most of them just toned it down to be more sneaky about it.

In any case, it's not the first time I've seen or heard of this.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305497/hacking-finally-made-it-to-ps4/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/272661/perma-dodge-skill
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261574/shuffle-exploit

Thogard

Interesting video

Odds of 3 dodges in a row from major evasion is 0.34%

TequilaFire

I see dodge after dodge like in the video all the time on PS4, even with multiple people targeting the player saying they are getting dodge after dodge as well. Why I don't have much sympathy for all the medium armor crying, they are as bad as shield stackers.
Shuffle needs a cool down as it seems to have the "luckiest" rng in the game.

firedrgn

Any chqnce he roll dodged and it just didnt show up graphically.

itscompton

TequilaFire wrote: »

I see dodge after dodge like in the video all the time on PS4, even with multiple people targeting the player saying they are getting dodge after dodge as well. Why I don't have much sympathy for all the medium armor crying, they are as bad as shield stackers.
Shuffle needs a cool down as it seems to have the "luckiest" rng in the game.

Yep same here certain players seem to have a dodge chance closer to 90% rather than 15%, I have to believe there is some exploit being used as I've tried running shuffle on my Med armor NB and don't see anywhere near the amount of dodged attacks on him as I see from these players.

JobooAGS

itscompton wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I see dodge after dodge like in the video all the time on PS4, even with multiple people targeting the player saying they are getting dodge after dodge as well. Why I don't have much sympathy for all the medium armor crying, they are as bad as shield stackers.
Shuffle needs a cool down as it seems to have the "luckiest" rng in the game.

Yep same here certain players seem to have a dodge chance closer to 90% rather than 15%, I have to believe there is some exploit being used as I've tried running shuffle on my Med armor NB and don't see anywhere near the amount of dodged attacks on him as I see from these players.

It is possible if there are multiple attacks on your opponent. 15% dodge chance means on average for an infinite sample size, 1 of every 6 or 7 hits will be dodged (about 6.666667). In addition to this, once dodge procs, all dodgeable attacks will be dodged in a small window, creating an illusion that more attacks are dodged than should be.

The_Brosteen

Jake1576 wrote: »

How is it players are able to stand still and say an attack like crystal frags or snipe and it say dodge dodge dodge shuffle is broken fix it already

You like so many others confuse shuffle for roll dodge. Nerf sosge chance? Sure whatever, but increase snare immunity it grants, that's the main reason people use it.