A proposed solution to the Dragon Knight dilemma.

Knowledge

Dragon Knights have been nerfed over the past few years many times and seem to be on a roller coaster ride of nerfs. Magicka DKs have quit and/or are really frustrated.

Why don't you do this, ZOS.

Remove Dragon Knight from the game turning all existing Dragon Knight characters into Wardens (if they own the expansion).

Rohaus

Mature proposal

Glockcoma725

Only if they also turn Sorcs to Templars

Sixty5

You realise that mag wardens are even worse than mag DKs in pve, and that stam DK still pulls stupid numbers right?

Plus the fact that DKs in general make the best tanks.

VaranisArano

No! I love my MagDK tank.

Huh. That might be why I love my MagDK. I'm a tank. Hmmm....

MrGraves

Rather just have a class change that's entirely optional. I don't like warden game play.

IMO the best "solution" to this kind of thing is to separate PvE from PvP (having nerfs apply to one or the other depending on if the problem is a problem in PvE or PvP) And just having a pop up when you enter PvP to tell you which abilities are altered in PvP (or in the tool bar it could say the PvP/PvE difference) Of course when they alter an entire skill changing it into a different one all together then the change would be on both probably but any thing that was "too OP" in PvP wont be nerfed in PvE.

Stamden

I'd be down with that. Or atleast give us some free class change tokens or something.

VaranisArano

So many people blaming PVP for the nerfs to MagDK DPS.

I still think the actual reason ZOS nerfs MagDK DPS is because ZOS wants to prevent the utter dominance of MagDK tanks.

usmcjdking

Stupid thread.

Ragnarock41

Sixty5 wrote: »

You realise that mag wardens are even worse than mag DKs in pve, and that stam DK still pulls stupid numbers right?

Plus the fact that DKs in general make the best tanks.

we never asked for this.

sincerely, a long time stamDK main.

kojou

Or they could just fix a couple things so they are relevant again...

Ragnarock41

I wouldn't mind a class change token.

Conduit0

Or they could just fix MagDK sustain to bring it inline with other classes, but obviously such ideas are sheer lunacy.

Derra

Is this a pvp or pve topic?

SaintSubwayy

Derra wrote: »

Is this a pvp or pve topic?

it's a PVE topic.

Dragonknight in PVP can be really strong atm

Ragnarock41

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Is this a pvp or pve topic?

it's a PVE topic.

Dragonknight in PVP can be really strong atm

that applies to magDk.

StamDK is quite the opposite of that, really strong in PvE, meh in PvP.

ascan7

VaranisArano wrote: »

I still think the actual reason ZOS nerfs MagDK DPS is because ZOS wants to prevent the utter dominance of MagDK tanks.

Then why they nerfed other class tanking capabilities?
The NB tank was nerfed may times
The templar tank took a really direct nerf when they removed the possibility to repent the corpse of the dwemer sphere and other monster stes' summonings.

Sixty5

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

You realise that mag wardens are even worse than mag DKs in pve, and that stam DK still pulls stupid numbers right?

Plus the fact that DKs in general make the best tanks.

we never asked for this.

sincerely, a long time stamDK main.

At least you are good at something.

Stam Sorc has been in a slow decline for some time now, and the majority are still riding the SORC OP ZOS NERF train

I'd kill for another stam class skill...

Ragnarock41

Sixty5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

You realise that mag wardens are even worse than mag DKs in pve, and that stam DK still pulls stupid numbers right?

Plus the fact that DKs in general make the best tanks.

we never asked for this.

sincerely, a long time stamDK main.

At least you are good at something.

Stam Sorc has been in a slow decline for some time now, and the majority are still riding the SORC OP ZOS NERF train

I'd kill for another stam class skill...

actually sSorc is getting indirect buffs next patch, via the interrupt changes.(and removal of miats alert = easier dizzy swings) Not gonna decline the fact that they are kind of weak right now, but at least they still have that '' assassin on steroids'' thing going for them.

I'm already seeing tons of people rerolling to stamsorc.

Xvorg

Knowledge wrote: »

Dragon Knights have been nerfed over the past few years many times and seem to be on a roller coaster ride of nerfs. Magicka DKs have quit and/or are really frustrated.

Why don't you do this, ZOS.

Remove Dragon Knight from the game turning all existing Dragon Knight characters into Wardens (if they own the expansion).

I wich I could choose another class and not be forced to play Frankentstein crap

DDuke

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

You realise that mag wardens are even worse than mag DKs in pve, and that stam DK still pulls stupid numbers right?

Plus the fact that DKs in general make the best tanks.

we never asked for this.

sincerely, a long time stamDK main.

At least you are good at something.

Stam Sorc has been in a slow decline for some time now, and the majority are still riding the SORC OP ZOS NERF train

I'd kill for another stam class skill...

actually sSorc is getting indirect buffs next patch, via the interrupt changes.(and removal of miats alert = easier dizzy swings) Not gonna decline the fact that they are kind of weak right now, but at least they still have that '' assassin on steroids'' thing going for them.

I'm already seeing tons of people rerolling to stamsorc.

I wouldn't write off stamina DK so soon, next patch you can get Tactician CP, slot Shuffle, slot Flame Lash & use Power Lash for a free cost stun (as it now stuns Off Balance ppl without CC immunity) on people you Off Balance with dodge rolls/Shuffle dodges.

Even on a stamina build, the heal from Power Lash is stronger than Vigor and the ability itself deals more damage than let's say Rev Bash for example, so yeah...

Ragnarock41

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

You realise that mag wardens are even worse than mag DKs in pve, and that stam DK still pulls stupid numbers right?

Plus the fact that DKs in general make the best tanks.

we never asked for this.

sincerely, a long time stamDK main.

At least you are good at something.

Stam Sorc has been in a slow decline for some time now, and the majority are still riding the SORC OP ZOS NERF train

I'd kill for another stam class skill...

actually sSorc is getting indirect buffs next patch, via the interrupt changes.(and removal of miats alert = easier dizzy swings) Not gonna decline the fact that they are kind of weak right now, but at least they still have that '' assassin on steroids'' thing going for them.

I'm already seeing tons of people rerolling to stamsorc.

I wouldn't write off stamina DK so soon, next patch you can get Tactician CP, slot Shuffle, slot Flame Lash & use Power Lash for a free cost stun (as it now stuns Off Balance ppl without CC immunity) on people you Off Balance with dodge rolls/Shuffle dodges.

Even on a stamina build, the heal from Power Lash is stronger than Vigor and the ability itself deals more damage than let's say Rev Bash for example, so yeah...

but at that point, wouldn't it be better to just play a magDk with 2h?

Edit: and my stamDk has an absurdly high 20k vigor tooltip, if power lash heal is above that I would say it sounds really, really broken.
Edit2: I do already make use of shuffle, tactician/exploiter. Its already a no-brainer combo that most good stam players use, funny that some stamDk told me Im a dumb scrub for not using last stand instead.. lol.

Xvorg

mDK has 2 dmg skills in all its set that defined the class: Whip and embers. Both nerfed.

stamDK had just one skill: Venomous claw... also nerfed.

Dks in general have little mobility, some extra resistance through blocking (nerfed), almost 0 range (besides that bad skill called stonefist), some utility (Talons, MK, petrify, spiked armor, igneous shield) and a lot of buggy or useless skills (Wings, inferno, GDB, CDB, ash cloud, etc).

So, as I saidin the natch potes therad, the class got gutted and get NOTHING as compensation... Nothing

DDuke

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

You realise that mag wardens are even worse than mag DKs in pve, and that stam DK still pulls stupid numbers right?

Plus the fact that DKs in general make the best tanks.

we never asked for this.

sincerely, a long time stamDK main.

At least you are good at something.

Stam Sorc has been in a slow decline for some time now, and the majority are still riding the SORC OP ZOS NERF train

I'd kill for another stam class skill...

actually sSorc is getting indirect buffs next patch, via the interrupt changes.(and removal of miats alert = easier dizzy swings) Not gonna decline the fact that they are kind of weak right now, but at least they still have that '' assassin on steroids'' thing going for them.

I'm already seeing tons of people rerolling to stamsorc.

I wouldn't write off stamina DK so soon, next patch you can get Tactician CP, slot Shuffle, slot Flame Lash & use Power Lash for a free cost stun (as it now stuns Off Balance ppl without CC immunity) on people you Off Balance with dodge rolls/Shuffle dodges.

Even on a stamina build, the heal from Power Lash is stronger than Vigor and the ability itself deals more damage than let's say Rev Bash for example, so yeah...

but at that point, wouldn't it be better to just play a magDk with 2h?

mDK can't get the Off Balance that easily (since you don't have Major Evasion & can't dodge roll much), the usage of Power Lash is very different there and usually just serves a damaging(and self heal) purpose - where as stam DK can use it as the CC.

Can't really comment on the overall viability of the sDK I've planned yet, but on paper it's really, really strong with Rally, Blood Craze, PL heals/stuns, tons of DoTs+Leap etc...

Ragnarock41

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

You realise that mag wardens are even worse than mag DKs in pve, and that stam DK still pulls stupid numbers right?

Plus the fact that DKs in general make the best tanks.

we never asked for this.

sincerely, a long time stamDK main.

At least you are good at something.

Stam Sorc has been in a slow decline for some time now, and the majority are still riding the SORC OP ZOS NERF train

I'd kill for another stam class skill...

actually sSorc is getting indirect buffs next patch, via the interrupt changes.(and removal of miats alert = easier dizzy swings) Not gonna decline the fact that they are kind of weak right now, but at least they still have that '' assassin on steroids'' thing going for them.

I'm already seeing tons of people rerolling to stamsorc.

I wouldn't write off stamina DK so soon, next patch you can get Tactician CP, slot Shuffle, slot Flame Lash & use Power Lash for a free cost stun (as it now stuns Off Balance ppl without CC immunity) on people you Off Balance with dodge rolls/Shuffle dodges.

Even on a stamina build, the heal from Power Lash is stronger than Vigor and the ability itself deals more damage than let's say Rev Bash for example, so yeah...

but at that point, wouldn't it be better to just play a magDk with 2h?

mDK can't get the Off Balance that easily (since you don't have Major Evasion & can't dodge roll much), the usage of Power Lash is very different there and usually just serves a damaging(and self heal) purpose - where as stam DK can use it as the CC.

Can't really comment on the overall viability of the sDK I've planned yet, but on paper it's really, really strong with Rally, Blood Craze, PL heals/stuns, tons of DoTs+Leap etc...

You know I always dreamed a dual wield sDk build with a stamina whip. This is not it, but it sounds really close. if you do make it work, please let me know.

DDuke

Xvorg wrote: »

mDK has 2 dmg skills in all its set that defined the class: Whip and embers. Both nerfed.

stamDK had just one skill: Venomous claw... also nerfed.

Dks in general have little mobility, some extra resistance through blocking (nerfed), almost 0 range (besides that bad skill called stonefist), some utility (Talons, MK, petrify, spiked armor, igneous shield) and a lot of buggy or useless skills (Wings, inferno, GDB, CDB, ash cloud, etc).

So, as I saidin the natch potes therad, the class got gutted and get NOTHING as compensation... Nothing

I guess you'd like your Power Lash go back to 5-7s cooldown then (from the 3s it has on PTS) & wings bugs back?

Really, I don't disagree with the "stand your ground" tank mDK having a lot of weak areas currently that could use buffing, but complaining about skills that let high dmg mDKs get free kills on dodge rollers isn't the way to go about it, especially when mDK is still getting buffed vs block & dmg shield oriented builds.


Things that could actually use some improvements: Ash Cloud (increase radius, increase dmg, give major evasion), Talons (needs waaay more dmg to rooted targets), Molten Whip morph etc

Xvorg

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

You realise that mag wardens are even worse than mag DKs in pve, and that stam DK still pulls stupid numbers right?

Plus the fact that DKs in general make the best tanks.

we never asked for this.

sincerely, a long time stamDK main.

At least you are good at something.

Stam Sorc has been in a slow decline for some time now, and the majority are still riding the SORC OP ZOS NERF train

I'd kill for another stam class skill...

actually sSorc is getting indirect buffs next patch, via the interrupt changes.(and removal of miats alert = easier dizzy swings) Not gonna decline the fact that they are kind of weak right now, but at least they still have that '' assassin on steroids'' thing going for them.

I'm already seeing tons of people rerolling to stamsorc.

I wouldn't write off stamina DK so soon, next patch you can get Tactician CP, slot Shuffle, slot Flame Lash & use Power Lash for a free cost stun (as it now stuns Off Balance ppl without CC immunity) on people you Off Balance with dodge rolls/Shuffle dodges.

Even on a stamina build, the heal from Power Lash is stronger than Vigor and the ability itself deals more damage than let's say Rev Bash for example, so yeah...

but at that point, wouldn't it be better to just play a magDk with 2h?

mDK can't get the Off Balance that easily (since you don't have Major Evasion & can't dodge roll much), the usage of Power Lash is very different there and usually just serves a damaging(and self heal) purpose - where as stam DK can use it as the CC.

Can't really comment on the overall viability of the sDK I've planned yet, but on paper it's really, really strong with Rally, Blood Craze, PL heals/stuns, tons of DoTs+Leap etc...

You know I always dreamed a dual wield sDk build with a stamina whip. This is not it, but it sounds really close. if you do make it work, please let me know.

You can make it with whip and a mDK, but you will need a lot of penetration.

Maybe pairing Julianos 5 medium with Spinner... who knows?

ak_pvp

Xvorg wrote: »

mDK has 2 dmg skills in all its set that defined the class: Whip and embers. Both nerfed.

stamDK had just one skill: Venomous claw... also nerfed.

Dks in general have little mobility, some extra resistance through blocking (nerfed), almost 0 range (besides that bad skill called stonefist), some utility (Talons, MK, petrify, spiked armor, igneous shield) and a lot of buggy or useless skills (Wings, inferno, GDB, CDB, ash cloud, etc).

So, as I saidin the natch potes therad, the class got gutted and get NOTHING as compensation... Nothing

I don't 100% disagree with you. The classes have been shafted, but extra freq whips, though not as rewarding for lightning wall or interrupts and stun on whip is pretty good.

What should define dragonknights is wings. DK should be slow, but sturdy and not snared to high hell. They should have a decent defense against ranged, many and few. Which is why IMO wings should be projectiles per target, include pulse and bird and give snare removal/immunity. Both classes would then be a lot better. Not forced into mist/rally. StamDK would get a burst heal, magDK would not have to use FM or the suicide button that is mist.

Rohamad_Ali

MagDK's have been posting 1vX videos this patch and winning major dueling tournaments . Im not sure what game you are playing but its not ESO if you think they are quitting .

ak_pvp

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

MagDK's have been posting 1vX videos this patch and winning major dueling tournaments . Im not sure what game you are playing but its not ESO if you think they are quitting .

Old MDK pre burst heal, and pre changes to talons/embers posted 1vXs. Potato smashing isn't hard. And duels have alway been a strong suit, even more so post update, being able to focus dots, and CCs on the singular target, taking less damage, both of which allow the weak sustain to not matter as much. Things like wings don't go insta down, and mobilioty doesn't matter.

DDuke

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edit: and my stamDk has an absurdly high 20k vigor tooltip, if power lash heal is above that I would say it sounds really, really broken.

22k, and over 4 seconds, not 5.


I could get even higher tooltip if I were to use Shacklebreaker, but experimenting with something else atm :P