The real reason why you won't find any tanks in the dungeon queue

Carbonised

People always complain about the lack of tanks, especially for dungeons and dailie queue.

Well, after having gotten my tank setup back again yesterday, I queued for the daily pledges, looking forward to taking a go with my new setup.

The good part: instantly got into groups for all 3 pledges. I did vet Banished 1, vet Vaults of Madness, and normal Bloodforge.

The bad part: Never in my life have I seen such low DPS. Banished 1 should be a walk in the park even on vet. While the 2 DDs were CP'ed somewhere around 170, they did so stupidly little damage that it was embarrasing. Trash took so long to clear out, basically no AOEs were used, bosses took forever to take out too. I think my Embers and Engulfing were actually doing half the damage there.
When we came to the boss in Banished, the group wiped twice (them first, then I dies trying to rezz the group). When I asked one guy why he didn't rezz the rest, he said he couldn't (lack of soul gems? Didn't he just get like 3-4 soul gems just from killing the dungeon bosses?). The DDs kept dying in the blue fire AOEs that the boss casts, instead of simply moving out of it. 3rd time we finally took the boss down.

Second dungeon was even worse, though I ewnt with a new group. Of course no one knows the mechanics of the first boss, so after he did his retribution mechanic, one of them died, and no one rezzed. I had to ask them to rezz the guy, since group DPS was so horrible we needed every one standing.
I've heard rumors about the guy who was just standing spamming snipe, but I've never met him, until now. He was literally standing still just spamming snipe over and over. Occasionally there was a poison spray, but other than that just snipe, snipe, snipe.
and when we came to Grothdarr they of course stood still in his lava until they died. Last boss they had no idea how worked. Every AOE wiped at least 2, many times all 3, of the group members, both the inside and the outside one. No one did any AOEs so we were often overwhelmed by adds, even as I tryed to taunt the larger ones and do damage with embers and engulfing. Several times I had to pop barrier and rezz one of them as I was the last person standing.
It also took 2 or 3 wipes to finish it.

Bloodroot was a little better. 2 DDs were around CP 130. When I mentioned that I hoped they had sufficiently enough DPS to do the dungeon, one of them instantly quit (I guess he took the hint). Our replacement was luckily around CP 600.
But again, when our healer died due to lag at the minotaur island boss, I waited for at least five minutes for someone to rezz, but no one did, and I had to actually rezz our healer while keeping taunt on the boss simultaneously. Other than that, it went somewhat smoothly.

If this is going to be the scenario, then I will be sure to run with only competent and high level people, no matter how trivial the dungeon. While I like tanking, I don't like to waste 2 hours doing dungeons that should be over in less than 1, while the group DPS is through the floor and people die to even the simplest mechanics. If this is the fate of most tanks, then I certainly know why you can't find any in the group finder.

Take home lessons: If you queue as a DPS, at least do a reasonable amount of damage. It doesn't have to go through the roof, but you have to do better than just standing and spamming snipe. If you get a dungeon that's above your skill level, at least have the decency to quit the group so they can find a better replacement. Several of the newer ones are very mechanic heavy, and I'm sorry but if you don't get it after a few tries, then I'm not going to stick around and waste my time and equipment repairs on you. In the same vein, don't queue for hard DLC dungeons like Hist, Reach or the soon coming Dragon Bones when you're level 40 something. Even on normal, that just makes you a liability. And for all the gods's sakes, when someone dies it's the damn DPS's jobs to rezz them. Don't just continue standing there spamming snipe on the boss while people fall like flies around you, expecting the tank to grab aggro, keep themselves alive and manage to rezz the dead as well.

Azurya

ahhh, I see you find out why I don´t tank anymore with grp-finder^^
no, just going there with guildies

Gralor

There’s only one advice and one solution to this problem:

DO NOT PUG

No YouTube guides, no forum posts, not even the new levelling advisor Zenimax introduces with Dragon Bones will stop new and unexperienced players from showing up in the dungeon finder or zone chats.

Turelus

Let's hope with the new changes and guides to levelling/builds within the game newer players can start to learn some of the mechanics needed for DPS.

Shawn_PT

I know you're blowing off some steam here. I know I did exactly the same. And then got chastised for putting 'newbies' (CP400+ people should really know better than to bow light attack spam while standing in stupid) in a bad light by a guild master.



But I guess that's why my tank and all my characters in fact have removed themselves from the PUG finder.

Carbonised

ESO_Blash wrote: »

There’s only one advice and one solution to this problem:

DO NOT PUG

No YouTube guides, no forum posts, not even the new levelling advisor Zenimax introduces with Dragon Bones will stop new and unexperienced players from showing up in the dungeon finder or zone chats.

While that might be a solution for me (and maybe for you), it's not a solution for the game. The group finder is there, ZOs obviously wants us to use it, they keep adding rewards and try and entice us to use the group finder tool. They recently made a minimum level requirement for vet dungeons and for DLC dungeons, at that at least prevented a pure level 15 to enter these dungeons. The recent "level up advisor" on the PTS that will come next patch is also another way to "teach" players about their role and builds.
So obviously ZOS is very aware of the issue, and tries to alleviate it.

The bottom line is that ESO is a pretty complicated game. I'm used to old school RPG systems such as Dungeons and Dragons, AD&D and so on, but even I found ESO very complicated in the beginning. You get very litte explanation of numbers, and many numbers are hidden or obfuscated, so little wonder people have no idea what to do to get better damage.

Also, many mechanics are poorly explained, poorly telgraphed, and you pretty much have to have som guy sit on Discord or TeamSpeak and explain that "when the boss does this and that and say wololo, you have to jump left and right and through a hoop not to get one shot". Better explanation of mechanics is definitely needed - in the game itself.

Carbonised

Shawn_PT wrote: »

I know you're blowing off some steam here. I know I did exactly the same. And then got chastised for putting 'newbies' (CP400+ people should really know better than to bow light attack spam while standing in stupid) in a bad light by a guild master.



But I guess that's why my tank and all my characters in fact have removed themselves from the PUG finder.

I didn't really do any group dungeons until I was well into the Vet levels (as they were called back then), and even then I did them first with guildies on learning runs.

The problem is two fold really.

Partially ESO/ZOS is to blame for making mechanics that are hard to figure out for beginners, as well as very little explanation of basic damage multipliers and general build directions.

Partially the player is to blame for wanting to do vet dungeons and hard DLC dungeons from the minute they hit level 45, instead of waiting until they actually have the skill and gear required. Some self-control on behalf of eager lowbies isn't too much to ask for.

Illurian

That's just the nature of PUG. The luck of the draw, if you will.

I've personally had some great runs with PUGs. And some of the worst.

But you're right; this unreliable nature of PUG grouping is one of the biggest reasons why Tanks are treated like mythical animals in the group finder. People who actually do play Tanks only do so with their guildies or friends whom they can depend on.

GaunterODim

Thats the reason why I do this exactly, so when I queue alone for something on Im only using my stronger dds that can kill the boss despite having aggro while doing most of the groups damage.

I dont do this very often, but almost always Im surprised by how bad some people play. Back when I was new and that bad in the game, I would have never queued for something where I would hurt the group that much that I literally have to get dragged through.

Even when considering that people want to clear vet stuff, I cant understand how someone would want it that way instead of taking 30 minutes to read any guide to have at least an idea what to do with their class/role.
This cant be fun at all.

jrgray93

Yep. I won't queue as a tank anymore. Sure, it's faster, but what is there to gain when the dungeon itself takes 3x as long? I can just queue as healer, which I primarily am, and put up 30k dps at the same time I'm healing.

Ihonu

There should be some test, to allow access to Veteran dungeons. In WOW they had or have (don't know if ist still there haven't played wow in a Long time) the proving grounds. You needeed the achievement for heroic access. You Need to pass a small mini Trial, which explains the base mechanics and which you can only pass as dps if you do at least some minimum damage.
Something like that would be very good. It would filter out the 2k "dps", that you meet so often in the dungeon finder.

SolidusPrime

I don't know where you guys manage find all these newbie groups at such a consistent rate...I queue as a tank almost every day, and rarely run into super low DPS groups.

My guess is that there is a bit of exaggeration going on here. If you want optimal min/max'ers that blaze through all of the content in seconds without blinking, group finder is not the place for you.

Carbonised

Ihonu wrote: »

There should be some test, to allow access to Veteran dungeons. In WOW they had or have (don't know if ist still there haven't played wow in a Long time) the proving grounds. You needeed the achievement for heroic access. You Need to pass a small mini Trial, which explains the base mechanics and which you can only pass as dps if you do at least some minimum damage.
Something like that would be very good. It would filter out the 2k "dps", that you meet so often in the dungeon finder.

Something like that would actually be a lot better than the very dubious "skill advisor" we have on the PTS atm, that is often wrong, and that can in any case just be easily ignored.

At least having to pass some DPS gate would mean the person actually knows how to deal mediocre DPS before being let into the group finder.

Carbonised

SolidusPrime wrote: »

I don't know where you guys manage find all these newbie groups at such a consistent rate...I queue as a tank almost every day, and rarely run into super low DPS groups.

My guess is that there is a bit of exaggeration going on here. If you want optimal min/max'ers that blaze through all of the content in seconds without blinking, group finder is not the place for you.

You're quite wrong. I'm no god-tier DPS myself, but I do reasonable DPS on my DD setup, a little shy of 30k usually.

But at LEAST I ress people when needed, and don't count on the tank to do it, at least I step out of easily aviodable AOE DOT's, at least I do AOEs when faced with trash mobs in large numbers.

And feel free to not believe me, but it hasn't ben exaggerated the least. That guy was literally standing there sniping all day and doing nothing else.

As a DD I'm used to carry the group sometimes, I can pretty much self shield, self heal and tank most bosses in nonDLC vet dungs (though I don't taunt them), and at least my DPS can carry the worst group in many cases.

As a tank you're pretty much stuck with your group. Doesn't matter if you can tank the boss all day, if the group doesn't do damage, or keeps wiping, you're not going past that boss. Hence why it's more frustrating to PUG as tank as any other role, hence why there are so few tanks in the group finder. (which is what people are usually complaining about)

Shawn_PT

Carbonised wrote: »

Partially the player is to blame for wanting to do vet dungeons and hard DLC dungeons from the minute they hit level 45, instead of waiting until they actually have the skill and gear required. Some self-control on behalf of eager lowbies isn't too much to ask for.

This. I remember when I first started playing and I found out about group dungeons. My first experience was Fungal Grotto Group Dungeon. Well the undaunted guy sent me here so it must be doable by a casual player. I boldly stepped in and got torn to pieces by the first pull. This was way before scaling too.

From then on I withdrew from all group content because I was so hopeless at it I would be nothing but a liability to anyone and so I didn't want to annoy those who I might join. It wasn't until I was level 36 iirc that some guildies dragged me into normal Darkshade (DS1 now) and while I didn't want to go because I knew I sucked at it, I quickly understood that dungeons were very much doable with a proper team of 4.

At this time I had died enough times to overland content to know not to stand in red. This was likely due to the fact that I started as a stamBlade who obviously had no proper self heals, so a potion every 40 odd seconds was all I had to save my ass. Also at the very least I used skills. Granted I was weaving medium/heavy bow attacks between silver bolts (back then they were awesome with their stun, allowed me to solo many dolmens before getting to vet ranks) but I would also use spray and a couple of buffs.

No, no snipe. Even in my newbie condition I found something with a cast time rather stupid to be spammed like that

Moving on, exactly same reason why I didn't do any vet dungeons until I was around 400CP (I turned CP155 when One Tamriel hit). Because I knew I wasn't good enough to not let my group down. So I find it very hard to understand why players will throw themselves at content they never done before as soon as they hit the requirement level, knowing fully well they'll be in a TEAM and their lack of experience will most likely turn them into a liability instead of an asset to the group.

I guess the general attitude is 'they'll just carry me'. When I'm on a DD on a random normal yeah. I guess I can carry them. When I'm on a pure tank in vet Banished Cells with players between CP200-400 and suddenly I notice everyone is dead or almost even after I've rezzed a few, and I'm standing there tanking over 20 banekin, clanfear, and twilight adds on my own (I took a screenshot and counted) because the DDs couldn't even drop a single AoE. And when told which skills they might want to try and use, get answered with 'okay', and nothing changes....Sorry. I'm out.

Then again I guess it's also entirely my fault for bringing a pure tank to a dungeon and not being able to carry bad DDs.

Carbonised

Shawn_PT wrote: »

I guess the general attitude is 'they'll just carry me'. When I'm on a DD on a random normal yeah. I guess I can carry them. When I'm on a pure tank in vet Banished Cells with players between CP200-400 and suddenly I notice everyone is dead or almost even after I've rezzed a few, and I'm standing there tanking over 20 banekin, clanfear, and twilight adds on my own (I took a screenshot and counted) because the DDs couldn't even drop a single AoE. And when told which skills they might want to try and use, get answered with 'okay', and nothing changes....Sorry. I'm out.

This sounds exactly like my experience in Banished I yesterday

Shawn_PT

I might actually throw my tank at the group finder today. Starving for some punishment. Or my healer.

It's funny when you get friend invites after a successful run followed by whispers like 'always good to have a good tank in friends list' or 'that was the best healer I ever met, didn't even use shields my life was always full!'

Peekachu99

I have always favoured pugging, due to the simple ease of getting to the content. The only currency we have in life that matters is time, and shouting or advertising in Discord or chat is a waste of that and doesn’t necessarily ensure a success rate greater than what a random group will give. Indeed, some of my greatest moments in this game have come from the surprise of being paired with a seriously competent group (who also queued alone). I have three of my no death runs and all of my HM achievements for the DLC dungeons from pugging.

As long as you’re above average at your role, you’re carrying the group anyway, and you have nothing to fear from Activity Finder. Leeching Plate or something similar makes almost everything soloable anyhow.

Nermy

ESO_Blash wrote: »

There’s only one advice and one solution to this problem:

DO NOT PUG

No YouTube guides, no forum posts, not even the new levelling advisor Zenimax introduces with Dragon Bones will stop new and unexperienced players from showing up in the dungeon finder or zone chats.

This ^^^^^

I will only ever do any sort of co-ordinated play over TS or Discord. Pointless otherwise.

Faulgor

Carbonised wrote: »

Partially ESO/ZOS is to blame for making mechanics that are hard to figure out for beginners, as well as very little explanation of basic damage multipliers and general build directions.

I mean, many mechanics like animation canceling weren't even intended. And they are still not even part of the tutorial.
The bar for DPS is so much higher than for tanks and healers, in terms of what you have to learn and practice to get the proper rotations for the necessary DPS. The least ZOS could do is make it less obscure.

SolidusPrime

And feel free to not believe me, but it hasn't ben exaggerated the least. That guy was literally standing there sniping all day and doing nothing else.

I don't, honestly.

Until I see proof to the contrary, I am not going to believe that I have been a magically unique snowflake that has been lucky enough to just somehow avoid all of these bad groups...for years. A bad experience here or there? Sure. So bad that you can't queue as a tank? I doubt it.

No, this post sounds much more like someone that has a higherish-end DPS character and wants to stroke their ego. The fact that you think you're "carrying" everyone when you DPS AND tank just enforces this for me.

I guess you're just going to have to quit running dungeons as a tank. Sorry. The peasant masses just can't keep up with badass god-tier players such as yourself.

DoctorESO

.

Carbonised

DoctorESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

People always complain about the lack of tanks, especially for dungeons and dailie queue.

Well, after having gotten my tank setup back again yesterday, I queued for the daily pledges, looking forward to taking a go with my new setup.

The good part: instantly got into groups for all 3 pledges. I did vet Banished 1, vet Vaults of Madness, and normal Bloodforge.

The bad part: Never in my life have I seen such low DPS. Banished 1 should be a walk in the park even on vet. While the 2 DDs were CP'ed somewhere around 170, they did so stupidly little damage that it was embarrasing. Trash took so long to clear out, basically no AOEs were used, bosses took forever to take out too. I think my Embers and Engulfing were actually doing half the damage there.
When we came to the boss in Banished, the group wiped twice (them first, then I dies trying to rezz the group). When I asked one guy why he didn't rezz the rest, he said he couldn't (lack of soul gems? Didn't he just get like 3-4 soul gems just from killing the dungeon bosses?). The DDs kept dying in the blue fire AOEs that the boss casts, instead of simply moving out of it. 3rd time we finally took the boss down.

Second dungeon was even worse, though I ewnt with a new group. Of course no one knows the mechanics of the first boss, so after he did his retribution mechanic, one of them died, and no one rezzed. I had to ask them to rezz the guy, since group DPS was so horrible we needed every one standing.
I've heard rumors about the guy who was just standing spamming snipe, but I've never met him, until now. He was literally standing still just spamming snipe over and over. Occasionally there was a poison spray, but other than that just snipe, snipe, snipe.
and when we came to Grothdarr they of course stood still in his lava until they died. Last boss they had no idea how worked. Every AOE wiped at least 2, many times all 3, of the group members, both the inside and the outside one. No one did any AOEs so we were often overwhelmed by adds, even as I tryed to taunt the larger ones and do damage with embers and engulfing. Several times I had to pop barrier and rezz one of them as I was the last person standing.
It also took 2 or 3 wipes to finish it.

Bloodroot was a little better. 2 DDs were around CP 130. When I mentioned that I hoped they had sufficiently enough DPS to do the dungeon, one of them instantly quit (I guess he took the hint). Our replacement was luckily around CP 600.
But again, when our healer died due to lag at the minotaur island boss, I waited for at least five minutes for someone to rezz, but no one did, and I had to actually rezz our healer while keeping taunt on the boss simultaneously. Other than that, it went somewhat smoothly.

If this is going to be the scenario, then I will be sure to run with only competent and high level people, no matter how trivial the dungeon. While I like tanking, I don't like to waste 2 hours doing dungeons that should be over in less than 1, while the group DPS is through the floor and people die to even the simplest mechanics. If this is the fate of most tanks, then I certainly know why you can't find any in the group finder.

Take home lessons: If you queue as a DPS, at least do a reasonable amount of damage. It doesn't have to go through the roof, but you have to do better than just standing and spamming snipe. If you get a dungeon that's above your skill level, at least have the decency to quit the group so they can find a better replacement. Several of the newer ones are very mechanic heavy, and I'm sorry but if you don't get it after a few tries, then I'm not going to stick around and waste my time and equipment repairs on you. In the same vein, don't queue for hard DLC dungeons like Hist, Reach or the soon coming Dragon Bones when you're level 40 something. Even on normal, that just makes you a liability. And for all the gods's sakes, when someone dies it's the damn DPS's jobs to rezz them. Don't just continue standing there spamming snipe on the boss while people fall like flies around you, expecting the tank to grab aggro, keep themselves alive and manage to rezz the dead as well.

Maybe stop queuing as a fake tank?

What in my entire post gave you the idea I was queueing as a fake tank? I'm really puzzled.

Illurian

Carbonised wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

People always complain about the lack of tanks, especially for dungeons and dailie queue.

Well, after having gotten my tank setup back again yesterday, I queued for the daily pledges, looking forward to taking a go with my new setup.

The good part: instantly got into groups for all 3 pledges. I did vet Banished 1, vet Vaults of Madness, and normal Bloodforge.

The bad part: Never in my life have I seen such low DPS. Banished 1 should be a walk in the park even on vet. While the 2 DDs were CP'ed somewhere around 170, they did so stupidly little damage that it was embarrasing. Trash took so long to clear out, basically no AOEs were used, bosses took forever to take out too. I think my Embers and Engulfing were actually doing half the damage there.
When we came to the boss in Banished, the group wiped twice (them first, then I dies trying to rezz the group). When I asked one guy why he didn't rezz the rest, he said he couldn't (lack of soul gems? Didn't he just get like 3-4 soul gems just from killing the dungeon bosses?). The DDs kept dying in the blue fire AOEs that the boss casts, instead of simply moving out of it. 3rd time we finally took the boss down.

Second dungeon was even worse, though I ewnt with a new group. Of course no one knows the mechanics of the first boss, so after he did his retribution mechanic, one of them died, and no one rezzed. I had to ask them to rezz the guy, since group DPS was so horrible we needed every one standing.
I've heard rumors about the guy who was just standing spamming snipe, but I've never met him, until now. He was literally standing still just spamming snipe over and over. Occasionally there was a poison spray, but other than that just snipe, snipe, snipe.
and when we came to Grothdarr they of course stood still in his lava until they died. Last boss they had no idea how worked. Every AOE wiped at least 2, many times all 3, of the group members, both the inside and the outside one. No one did any AOEs so we were often overwhelmed by adds, even as I tryed to taunt the larger ones and do damage with embers and engulfing. Several times I had to pop barrier and rezz one of them as I was the last person standing.
It also took 2 or 3 wipes to finish it.

Bloodroot was a little better. 2 DDs were around CP 130. When I mentioned that I hoped they had sufficiently enough DPS to do the dungeon, one of them instantly quit (I guess he took the hint). Our replacement was luckily around CP 600.
But again, when our healer died due to lag at the minotaur island boss, I waited for at least five minutes for someone to rezz, but no one did, and I had to actually rezz our healer while keeping taunt on the boss simultaneously. Other than that, it went somewhat smoothly.

If this is going to be the scenario, then I will be sure to run with only competent and high level people, no matter how trivial the dungeon. While I like tanking, I don't like to waste 2 hours doing dungeons that should be over in less than 1, while the group DPS is through the floor and people die to even the simplest mechanics. If this is the fate of most tanks, then I certainly know why you can't find any in the group finder.

Take home lessons: If you queue as a DPS, at least do a reasonable amount of damage. It doesn't have to go through the roof, but you have to do better than just standing and spamming snipe. If you get a dungeon that's above your skill level, at least have the decency to quit the group so they can find a better replacement. Several of the newer ones are very mechanic heavy, and I'm sorry but if you don't get it after a few tries, then I'm not going to stick around and waste my time and equipment repairs on you. In the same vein, don't queue for hard DLC dungeons like Hist, Reach or the soon coming Dragon Bones when you're level 40 something. Even on normal, that just makes you a liability. And for all the gods's sakes, when someone dies it's the damn DPS's jobs to rezz them. Don't just continue standing there spamming snipe on the boss while people fall like flies around you, expecting the tank to grab aggro, keep themselves alive and manage to rezz the dead as well.

Maybe stop queuing as a fake tank?

What in my entire post gave you the idea I was queueing as a fake tank? I'm really puzzled.

He probably didn't read it at all, but wanted to voice his opinion anyway.

That's how most of the forums is these days.

teladoy

This was always my complain. As Tank i've been always matched with people that think that anyone can do dps with any build and gear.

I'm not exigent, i don't care what build or gear they have, if the result is good. What i mean is i have no problem if dps is good that we can move on and if they understand the mechanic after i explain it 3 times.

Otherwise, i just quit.

Magdalina

Yes, yes that is #1 reason we don't have (competent) tanks using groupfinder. Welcome to the club

I would like to point out you don't really need to wait for dps to res though. Ideally dps should res, but in most dungeon fights(and you weren't doing the hardest ones) it's entirely possible for tank to res without dying or losing agro. I've even done ressing as a tank with good teams because if I know I can do it, why lose dps over that? Now when there are mechanics directly blocking you from being able to res and no one else knows how to use a soulgem, well that's a different story.

Also lowbies aren't the issue. The issue is people(of any level, I've met godmode awful cp cap and very very decent cp 100) not knowing what the heck they're doing and how the heck dungeons work. Talking to them helps sometimes and then you can actually have the best dungeon run of the month - yes it will last 2 hours but you will make it and feel like you've greatly progressed, overcame a giant challenge and helped some nice people too; unfortunately about 9/10 refuse to listen to anything because they're "playing how they want". On bright side, at least ZOS seem to be somewhat recognizing the issue with the skill advisor and whatnot, on less bright one it seems to currently be as far from what is needed as possible.

The perfect workaround is to queue with a dps friend btw. Tank+dps will get a group almost as fast and won't be stuck with 7k dps total group.

Carbonised

Illurian wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

People always complain about the lack of tanks, especially for dungeons and dailie queue.

Well, after having gotten my tank setup back again yesterday, I queued for the daily pledges, looking forward to taking a go with my new setup.

The good part: instantly got into groups for all 3 pledges. I did vet Banished 1, vet Vaults of Madness, and normal Bloodforge.

The bad part: Never in my life have I seen such low DPS. Banished 1 should be a walk in the park even on vet. While the 2 DDs were CP'ed somewhere around 170, they did so stupidly little damage that it was embarrasing. Trash took so long to clear out, basically no AOEs were used, bosses took forever to take out too. I think my Embers and Engulfing were actually doing half the damage there.
When we came to the boss in Banished, the group wiped twice (them first, then I dies trying to rezz the group). When I asked one guy why he didn't rezz the rest, he said he couldn't (lack of soul gems? Didn't he just get like 3-4 soul gems just from killing the dungeon bosses?). The DDs kept dying in the blue fire AOEs that the boss casts, instead of simply moving out of it. 3rd time we finally took the boss down.

Second dungeon was even worse, though I ewnt with a new group. Of course no one knows the mechanics of the first boss, so after he did his retribution mechanic, one of them died, and no one rezzed. I had to ask them to rezz the guy, since group DPS was so horrible we needed every one standing.
I've heard rumors about the guy who was just standing spamming snipe, but I've never met him, until now. He was literally standing still just spamming snipe over and over. Occasionally there was a poison spray, but other than that just snipe, snipe, snipe.
and when we came to Grothdarr they of course stood still in his lava until they died. Last boss they had no idea how worked. Every AOE wiped at least 2, many times all 3, of the group members, both the inside and the outside one. No one did any AOEs so we were often overwhelmed by adds, even as I tryed to taunt the larger ones and do damage with embers and engulfing. Several times I had to pop barrier and rezz one of them as I was the last person standing.
It also took 2 or 3 wipes to finish it.

Bloodroot was a little better. 2 DDs were around CP 130. When I mentioned that I hoped they had sufficiently enough DPS to do the dungeon, one of them instantly quit (I guess he took the hint). Our replacement was luckily around CP 600.
But again, when our healer died due to lag at the minotaur island boss, I waited for at least five minutes for someone to rezz, but no one did, and I had to actually rezz our healer while keeping taunt on the boss simultaneously. Other than that, it went somewhat smoothly.

If this is going to be the scenario, then I will be sure to run with only competent and high level people, no matter how trivial the dungeon. While I like tanking, I don't like to waste 2 hours doing dungeons that should be over in less than 1, while the group DPS is through the floor and people die to even the simplest mechanics. If this is the fate of most tanks, then I certainly know why you can't find any in the group finder.

Take home lessons: If you queue as a DPS, at least do a reasonable amount of damage. It doesn't have to go through the roof, but you have to do better than just standing and spamming snipe. If you get a dungeon that's above your skill level, at least have the decency to quit the group so they can find a better replacement. Several of the newer ones are very mechanic heavy, and I'm sorry but if you don't get it after a few tries, then I'm not going to stick around and waste my time and equipment repairs on you. In the same vein, don't queue for hard DLC dungeons like Hist, Reach or the soon coming Dragon Bones when you're level 40 something. Even on normal, that just makes you a liability. And for all the gods's sakes, when someone dies it's the damn DPS's jobs to rezz them. Don't just continue standing there spamming snipe on the boss while people fall like flies around you, expecting the tank to grab aggro, keep themselves alive and manage to rezz the dead as well.

Maybe stop queuing as a fake tank?

What in my entire post gave you the idea I was queueing as a fake tank? I'm really puzzled.

He probably didn't read it at all, but wanted to voice his opinion anyway.

That's how most of the forums is these days.

Isn't that the truth. Well he probably didn't have time to read the OP considering that he is busy spamming the forums with a hundred threads. Shouldn't there be a cap of how many new topics you can make in a week anyway.

Illurian

Carbonised wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

People always complain about the lack of tanks, especially for dungeons and dailie queue.

Well, after having gotten my tank setup back again yesterday, I queued for the daily pledges, looking forward to taking a go with my new setup.

The good part: instantly got into groups for all 3 pledges. I did vet Banished 1, vet Vaults of Madness, and normal Bloodforge.

The bad part: Never in my life have I seen such low DPS. Banished 1 should be a walk in the park even on vet. While the 2 DDs were CP'ed somewhere around 170, they did so stupidly little damage that it was embarrasing. Trash took so long to clear out, basically no AOEs were used, bosses took forever to take out too. I think my Embers and Engulfing were actually doing half the damage there.
When we came to the boss in Banished, the group wiped twice (them first, then I dies trying to rezz the group). When I asked one guy why he didn't rezz the rest, he said he couldn't (lack of soul gems? Didn't he just get like 3-4 soul gems just from killing the dungeon bosses?). The DDs kept dying in the blue fire AOEs that the boss casts, instead of simply moving out of it. 3rd time we finally took the boss down.

Second dungeon was even worse, though I ewnt with a new group. Of course no one knows the mechanics of the first boss, so after he did his retribution mechanic, one of them died, and no one rezzed. I had to ask them to rezz the guy, since group DPS was so horrible we needed every one standing.
I've heard rumors about the guy who was just standing spamming snipe, but I've never met him, until now. He was literally standing still just spamming snipe over and over. Occasionally there was a poison spray, but other than that just snipe, snipe, snipe.
and when we came to Grothdarr they of course stood still in his lava until they died. Last boss they had no idea how worked. Every AOE wiped at least 2, many times all 3, of the group members, both the inside and the outside one. No one did any AOEs so we were often overwhelmed by adds, even as I tryed to taunt the larger ones and do damage with embers and engulfing. Several times I had to pop barrier and rezz one of them as I was the last person standing.
It also took 2 or 3 wipes to finish it.

Bloodroot was a little better. 2 DDs were around CP 130. When I mentioned that I hoped they had sufficiently enough DPS to do the dungeon, one of them instantly quit (I guess he took the hint). Our replacement was luckily around CP 600.
But again, when our healer died due to lag at the minotaur island boss, I waited for at least five minutes for someone to rezz, but no one did, and I had to actually rezz our healer while keeping taunt on the boss simultaneously. Other than that, it went somewhat smoothly.

If this is going to be the scenario, then I will be sure to run with only competent and high level people, no matter how trivial the dungeon. While I like tanking, I don't like to waste 2 hours doing dungeons that should be over in less than 1, while the group DPS is through the floor and people die to even the simplest mechanics. If this is the fate of most tanks, then I certainly know why you can't find any in the group finder.

Take home lessons: If you queue as a DPS, at least do a reasonable amount of damage. It doesn't have to go through the roof, but you have to do better than just standing and spamming snipe. If you get a dungeon that's above your skill level, at least have the decency to quit the group so they can find a better replacement. Several of the newer ones are very mechanic heavy, and I'm sorry but if you don't get it after a few tries, then I'm not going to stick around and waste my time and equipment repairs on you. In the same vein, don't queue for hard DLC dungeons like Hist, Reach or the soon coming Dragon Bones when you're level 40 something. Even on normal, that just makes you a liability. And for all the gods's sakes, when someone dies it's the damn DPS's jobs to rezz them. Don't just continue standing there spamming snipe on the boss while people fall like flies around you, expecting the tank to grab aggro, keep themselves alive and manage to rezz the dead as well.

Maybe stop queuing as a fake tank?

What in my entire post gave you the idea I was queueing as a fake tank? I'm really puzzled.

He probably didn't read it at all, but wanted to voice his opinion anyway.

That's how most of the forums is these days.

Isn't that the truth. Well he probably didn't have time to read the OP considering that he is busy spamming the forums with a hundred threads. Shouldn't there be a cap of how many new topics you can make in a week anyway.

Agreed completely. There should really be a weekly cap.

vamp_emily

People who don't have patience really shouldn't use the dungeon finder. You are better off forming a group in zone chat with your preferred requirements.

I don't mind tanking for new players. Sometimes it takes longer and sometimes players just give up but that is ok.

Do not use group finder if:
- You have anger management issues.
- You constantly complain about ESO
- You are in a rush
- You think you are the best player in the world
- You say the words "You suck!" a lot

Use group finder if:
- You are new and want to see what dungeons are like
- You have plenty of time to play
- You like helping others
- You have patience
- You just can't find the 4th person and you will take anyone

Illurian

vamp_emily wrote: »

People who don't have patients really shouldn't use the dungeon finder. You are better off forming a group in zone chat with your preferred requirements.

I don't mind tanking for new players. Sometimes it takes longer and sometimes players just give up but that is ok.

Do not use group finder if:
- You have anger management issues.
- You constantly complain about ESO
- You are in a rush
- You think you are the best player in the world
- You say the words "You suck!" a lot

Use group finder if:
- You are new and want to see what dungeons are like
- You have plenty of time to play
- You like helping others
- You have patients
- You just can't find the 4th person and you will take anyone

Sorry but your post made me giggle a little.

Patients are what doctors have.

The word you're looking for is patience.

Narvuntien

There is nothing in game to inform people how to dps (or heal or tank).

There is nothing in game to inform people of how difficult the dungeon are about to enter.

The questing is so easy that no one ever feels the need to look up builds or feels they are bad enough they need to learn.

Banished cells is one of the dungeons you are directed to to get the undaunted questline.