Best AP grind rotation

ordraveeb17_ESO

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

3k in 3 hours..... no comments ))) lol))) HOW IT'S POSSIBLE???

Just put your timer on when you defend a keep and count APs.
When the keep is gone add more time for travel and other stuff.
Multiply the time and APs with a coefficient that will bring you to 3 hours and you'll see the AP potential of defense.

Now do the opposite.
Count AP on a successful flip with all resources and other post-flip-ticks (as you get lots of them while attacking next to a zerg) add travel time till the next keep and multiply and see the AP potential

And if you get a different ratio (more balanced) between two scenarios then post it here.

lol))) how you defend?! you kill players?? just put 2 oils and you will get AP...... AP going not for solo killing or KB.... they coming for damage done.... more damage more AP, then enemy down ))) if you want more AP use sieges while defend keeps..... or put restro staff on back bar and support other players ))) but 3k in 3 hours... it's some joke )))) for me is terrible day if i have 30k/h.

Most AP coming from combat.... yes tick is good.... bot most AP coming from killings.

Shawn_PT

Didgerion wrote: »

Most probable you didn't notice the tick.

The tick happens few seconds before the keep changes color.
And it is a 6k+ tick without doing anything.

You just come to a keep put your chair out - sit and watch - and you get 6k when the keep is flipped.

199 AP you describe is the echo tick based on the players that died next to a keep after it was taken.

When you kill a player next to a keep it counts as a defense - and you get a defense tick soon after the kill (or heal in your case)

6K? No. I didn't have any AP on me because I was PvEing and I generally bank it to know exactly how much I have. I got out of that Cyro run with 4K and a few crumbs. Those came from the small ticks dropping while we were fighting in and out of the wall. I was rightfully annoyed because I looked at the total I had collected long after the battle was over and thought 'wtf that doesn't even cover a regular keep capture what the hell happened here.'

I was standing on the wall, looking down at the open postern door and sieging the stragglers that still fought on the top flag when it flipped. There was no 'big' tick.

In any case I received less than I would have expected, particularly because as a PvE healer (complete with Worm balls and SPC ) I was healing a lot of people which would generally help me 'leech' their AP even if not grouped.

VaranisArano

Shawn_PT wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Most probable you didn't notice the tick.

The tick happens few seconds before the keep changes color.
And it is a 6k+ tick without doing anything.

You just come to a keep put your chair out - sit and watch - and you get 6k when the keep is flipped.

199 AP you describe is the echo tick based on the players that died next to a keep after it was taken.

When you kill a player next to a keep it counts as a defense - and you get a defense tick soon after the kill (or heal in your case)

6K? No. I didn't have any AP on me because I was PvEing and I generally bank it to know exactly how much I have. I got out of that Cyro run with 4K and a few crumbs. Those came from the small ticks dropping while we were fighting in and out of the wall. I was rightfully annoyed because I looked at the total I had collected long after the battle was over and thought 'wtf that doesn't even cover a regular keep capture what the hell happened here.'

I was standing on the wall, looking down at the open postern door and sieging the stragglers that still fought on the top flag when it flipped. There was no 'big' tick.

In any case I received less than I would have expected, particularly because as a PvE healer (complete with Worm balls and SPC ) I was healing a lot of people which would generally help me 'leech' their AP even if not grouped.

Then something went wrong there or the situation is not as you described.

Offensive ticks happen when both flags are fully turned and the keep turns the same color as your alliance. You get at least 6k AP for being on the keep grounds when that happens.

So I don't know why you didn't get that O-tick (the leaderboard/ranks don't update right away but you said you checked a while aftereward so it can't be that), but if you were on the keep grounds when the keep flipped, you should have gotten at least 6k AP. If I were you, I'd keep a close eye on future AP gains like that and make sure that something buggy isn't going on.

199 AP sounds more like a bad D-tick, a healing AP tick, or the AP for killing a single player during the siege.

Didgerion

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

3k in 3 hours..... no comments ))) lol))) HOW IT'S POSSIBLE???

Just put your timer on when you defend a keep and count APs.
When the keep is gone add more time for travel and other stuff.
Multiply the time and APs with a coefficient that will bring you to 3 hours and you'll see the AP potential of defense.

Now do the opposite.
Count AP on a successful flip with all resources and other post-flip-ticks (as you get lots of them while attacking next to a zerg) add travel time till the next keep and multiply and see the AP potential

And if you get a different ratio (more balanced) between two scenarios then post it here.

lol))) how you defend?! you kill players?? just put 2 oils and you will get AP...... AP going not for solo killing or KB.... they coming for damage done.... more damage more AP, then enemy down ))) if you want more AP use sieges while defend keeps..... or put restro staff on back bar and support other players ))) but 3k in 3 hours... it's some joke )))) for me is terrible day if i have 30k/h.

Most AP coming from combat.... yes tick is good.... bot most AP coming from killings.

Again, depends on what side of the front you are - as I said in OP it is very hard to fight and get kills out of train and zerg groups.
I'm not talking that there are not any good defense combats out there that ends with the win and a fat 10k+ defense tick.
I'm talking that probability of such fights happening is low and mathematically it is more wise just to stick around the offensive groups (that usually turn quickly into big zerg groups - as all the faction is going where the profitable action is) and kill some stragglers and collecting 6k+ ticks and some 1.5k+ ticks for flipping the resources.
You just get over 10k AP in less than 10 minutes of PVP-ing.

You should really not care about APs if you choose to gallop to a keep that was flagged to try to rescue it.

ordraveeb17_ESO

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

3k in 3 hours..... no comments ))) lol))) HOW IT'S POSSIBLE???

Just put your timer on when you defend a keep and count APs.
When the keep is gone add more time for travel and other stuff.
Multiply the time and APs with a coefficient that will bring you to 3 hours and you'll see the AP potential of defense.

Now do the opposite.
Count AP on a successful flip with all resources and other post-flip-ticks (as you get lots of them while attacking next to a zerg) add travel time till the next keep and multiply and see the AP potential

And if you get a different ratio (more balanced) between two scenarios then post it here.

lol))) how you defend?! you kill players?? just put 2 oils and you will get AP...... AP going not for solo killing or KB.... they coming for damage done.... more damage more AP, then enemy down ))) if you want more AP use sieges while defend keeps..... or put restro staff on back bar and support other players ))) but 3k in 3 hours... it's some joke )))) for me is terrible day if i have 30k/h.

Most AP coming from combat.... yes tick is good.... bot most AP coming from killings.

Again, depends on what side of the front you are - as I said in OP it is very hard to fight and get kills out of train and zerg groups.
I'm not talking that there are not any good defense combats out there that ends with the win and a fat 10k+ defense tick.
I'm talking that probability of such fights happening is low and mathematically it is more wise just to stick around the offensive groups (that usually turn quickly into big zerg groups - as all the faction is going where the profitable action is) and kill some stragglers and collecting 6k+ ticks and some 1.5k+ ticks for flipping the resources.
You just get over 10k AP in less than 10 minutes of PVP-ing.

You should really not care about APs if you choose to gallop to a keep that was flagged to try to rescue it.

should not care AP?! AP is a reward for killing players, offence and defence keep and resourse..... sorry but if you defended keep and gain 0AP.... you do nothing for defence(useless). I run with train.... but if i run solo i gain more AP, than if with raid.
+ solo you can't rescue nothing.... it's mass PvP.... if res or keep lost... try to kill as much as possible.

Asardes

A good advice for anyone wanting to maximize AP: keep AoE heals ticking on nearby players while they siege, besides helping break down walls or doors and killing enemy players. It's not much, but it matters:
- all stamina players can hit Vigor every 6s and be sure they hit as many allies as possible
- stamina Warden also has Soothing Spores and Enchanted Forest/Healing Thicket
- stamina Templar can hit Rememberance to much the same effect if they don't have anything better to do with the ultimate
- magicka classes that run a restoration staff back bar - virtually all but Templar - can put Mutagen on their back bar on a flexi spot and spam that a few times or spam Healing Springs on the ram group, as that usually takes huge damage from oils.
- magicka Templar can lay down Ritual and let it tick on other players as well as Rememberance and also heal an ally with Breath of Life (I actually switched to Honor the Dead past Morrowind since it's cheaper).

The ticks themselves are not that big individually, but they do add up to a few hundred per minute.

SugaComa

Stop giving ap for empty keeps

Oy give it when other factions are there to either defend or take it from you

Make PvP about PvP

Personally I think 4 hour campaigns are the way to go ...

Challenge teams n play till emp or highest points in 4 hours, then map resets for next challenge

VaranisArano

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

3k in 3 hours..... no comments ))) lol))) HOW IT'S POSSIBLE???

Just put your timer on when you defend a keep and count APs.
When the keep is gone add more time for travel and other stuff.
Multiply the time and APs with a coefficient that will bring you to 3 hours and you'll see the AP potential of defense.

Now do the opposite.
Count AP on a successful flip with all resources and other post-flip-ticks (as you get lots of them while attacking next to a zerg) add travel time till the next keep and multiply and see the AP potential

And if you get a different ratio (more balanced) between two scenarios then post it here.

lol))) how you defend?! you kill players?? just put 2 oils and you will get AP...... AP going not for solo killing or KB.... they coming for damage done.... more damage more AP, then enemy down ))) if you want more AP use sieges while defend keeps..... or put restro staff on back bar and support other players ))) but 3k in 3 hours... it's some joke )))) for me is terrible day if i have 30k/h.

Most AP coming from combat.... yes tick is good.... bot most AP coming from killings.

Again, depends on what side of the front you are - as I said in OP it is very hard to fight and get kills out of train and zerg groups.
I'm not talking that there are not any good defense combats out there that ends with the win and a fat 10k+ defense tick.
I'm talking that probability of such fights happening is low and mathematically it is more wise just to stick around the offensive groups (that usually turn quickly into big zerg groups - as all the faction is going where the profitable action is) and kill some stragglers and collecting 6k+ ticks and some 1.5k+ ticks for flipping the resources.
You just get over 10k AP in less than 10 minutes of PVP-ing.

You should really not care about APs if you choose to gallop to a keep that was flagged to try to rescue it.

should not care AP?! AP is a reward for killing players, offence and defence keep and resourse..... sorry but if you defended keep and gain 0AP.... you do nothing for defence(useless). I run with train.... but if i run solo i gain more AP, than if with raid.
+ solo you can't rescue nothing.... it's mass PvP.... if res or keep lost... try to kill as much as possible.

Sometimes you play for your faction and sometimes that means going back and defending the tri-keeps when you know an enemy raid is rolling in for the hourly game of "ring-around-the-home-keeps." You know the game, the one where unless you stop them you can expect that raid to hit the one tri-keep then the next in quick succession? Of course you know the game, the groups looking for AP and campaign points do it pretty often to the enemy while the enemy does it to you.

Someone has to defend those keeps or else someone has to go back there and recapture those keeps afterward if defenders didn't get there in time. Defending them is pretty thankless. You've got maybe five people there (five is pretty generous) versus an organized raid. I've done it when I'm the only person around. If I'm the only person or even one of five defending a tri-keep versus a raid that dropped 20/20 siege and flagged the keep about 10 second after the callout to zone for aid went out, uh, I'm not going to win that fight without major backup that rarely comes in time.

The most I can do is delay the enemy and maybe get a few kills by pouring oils. But again, its an organized raid, so I might get a few kills on their squishy people, but for the most part their healers know what they are doing. If zone chat didn't bring in reinforcements, I can hide or I can make a glorious last stand, rez up, and to to recapture the keep once the raid has moved on to the next home keep in order. I didn't make a whole lot of AP, maybe even none at all, but at least the home keep didn't fall undefended?

The times when I do the delay the enemy long enough for the reinforcements to show up are so, so satisfying though.

So yeah, I totally believe that solidly attempting to defend lost causes isn't going to gain you a lot of AP. Sometimes, someone has to defend the lost causes. Otherwise, you'll be out on the front lines taking keeps for AP, get cut off, and start screaming "Why are they taking our tri-keeps?!?!" Well, because only a few people are there to defend. What did you expect?

There's no good answer. My answer is that if I'm solo, I only defend keeps I think are lost causes if I want to because getting rolled by opposing raids time after time with no reinforcements from the AP farmers in my faction gets tiring. I start thinking nasty thoughts like "I could just go make AP at Alessia Bridge instead of defending the back keeps and let you farmers do all the work up here or have to deal with a scroll take. See how you like getting forced back on the defensive!" If I'm in the mood, I'll defend lost causes all day and spend siege like water. But I no longer work myself into a bad mood getting little AP for the thankless task of attempting to delay enemy raids from capturing practically undefended home keeps.

RobbieRocket

PvDooring is often tactical for "the greater good" of winning the war which should ultimately have the biggest incentives.

One thing I would like to see added is some kind of scouting or intel. Simply that although it is a very important mechanic that a keep is not flagged until at 50% damage on the door/wall, having NPCs (at resources or keeps) attack Players suggests a SIGHTING and I think that SIGHTINGS should appear on the Cyrodiil map *, rather like the swords for recent combat, the flagged resource or keep for siege/take.

This way, without numbers or force size known, Players can respond to sightings on the map, especially those nearby home keeps or easy-to-access areas. It would also encourage stealth movements of groups of players and tactical decisions regarding speed and directness when attacking keeps or resources.

* EP keep guards detect and attack DC Players at Arrius Keep, DC Players SIGHTED icon appears on Cyrodiil Map. (ZOS could decide if this is limited to EP users map, EP and DC users map or just anyone. All scenarios would work, albeit slightly differently.

Didgerion

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

3k in 3 hours..... no comments ))) lol))) HOW IT'S POSSIBLE???

Just put your timer on when you defend a keep and count APs.
When the keep is gone add more time for travel and other stuff.
Multiply the time and APs with a coefficient that will bring you to 3 hours and you'll see the AP potential of defense.

Now do the opposite.
Count AP on a successful flip with all resources and other post-flip-ticks (as you get lots of them while attacking next to a zerg) add travel time till the next keep and multiply and see the AP potential

And if you get a different ratio (more balanced) between two scenarios then post it here.

lol))) how you defend?! you kill players?? just put 2 oils and you will get AP...... AP going not for solo killing or KB.... they coming for damage done.... more damage more AP, then enemy down ))) if you want more AP use sieges while defend keeps..... or put restro staff on back bar and support other players ))) but 3k in 3 hours... it's some joke )))) for me is terrible day if i have 30k/h.

Most AP coming from combat.... yes tick is good.... bot most AP coming from killings.

Again, depends on what side of the front you are - as I said in OP it is very hard to fight and get kills out of train and zerg groups.
I'm not talking that there are not any good defense combats out there that ends with the win and a fat 10k+ defense tick.
I'm talking that probability of such fights happening is low and mathematically it is more wise just to stick around the offensive groups (that usually turn quickly into big zerg groups - as all the faction is going where the profitable action is) and kill some stragglers and collecting 6k+ ticks and some 1.5k+ ticks for flipping the resources.
You just get over 10k AP in less than 10 minutes of PVP-ing.

You should really not care about APs if you choose to gallop to a keep that was flagged to try to rescue it.

should not care AP?! AP is a reward for killing players, offence and defence keep and resourse..... sorry but if you defended keep and gain 0AP.... you do nothing for defence(useless). I run with train.... but if i run solo i gain more AP, than if with raid.
+ solo you can't rescue nothing.... it's mass PvP.... if res or keep lost... try to kill as much as possible.

Exactly that was my feeling! I felt useless after 3 hours of defense play - as we lost all the keeps I defended and I didn't get much AP.
I was pouring oils from 2 jars at the same time and doing light attacks and launching meteors in between the jar switch.
IDK maybe I was doing it wrong - as according to AP gain I was definitely doing something wrong.

Now I don't rush to defend keeps anymore -as certainly I'm not good at it - I'd rather find some PVP action next to the keeps that are about to flip in my faction's color - much more rewarding - more fun - and most important - I'm very good at it(according to AP flow).

VaranisArano

RobbieRocket wrote: »

One thing I would like to see added is some kind of scouting or intel. Simply that although it is a very important mechanic that a keep is not flagged until at 50% damage on the door/wall, having NPCs (at resources or keeps) attack Players suggests a SIGHTING and I think that SIGHTINGS should appear on the Cyrodiil map *, rather like the swords for recent combat, the flagged resource or keep for siege/take.

This way, without numbers or force size known, Players can respond to sightings on the map, especially those nearby home keeps or easy-to-access areas. It would also encourage stealth movements of groups of players and tactical decisions regarding speed and directness when attacking keeps or resources.

On PC/NA at least, zone chat callouts serve that purpose. Not that the idea is bad, but zone chat callouts give information that NPCs can't give and it requires players to actually be paying attention and react appropriately.

VaranisArano

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

3k in 3 hours..... no comments ))) lol))) HOW IT'S POSSIBLE???

Just put your timer on when you defend a keep and count APs.
When the keep is gone add more time for travel and other stuff.
Multiply the time and APs with a coefficient that will bring you to 3 hours and you'll see the AP potential of defense.

Now do the opposite.
Count AP on a successful flip with all resources and other post-flip-ticks (as you get lots of them while attacking next to a zerg) add travel time till the next keep and multiply and see the AP potential

And if you get a different ratio (more balanced) between two scenarios then post it here.

lol))) how you defend?! you kill players?? just put 2 oils and you will get AP...... AP going not for solo killing or KB.... they coming for damage done.... more damage more AP, then enemy down ))) if you want more AP use sieges while defend keeps..... or put restro staff on back bar and support other players ))) but 3k in 3 hours... it's some joke )))) for me is terrible day if i have 30k/h.

Most AP coming from combat.... yes tick is good.... bot most AP coming from killings.

Again, depends on what side of the front you are - as I said in OP it is very hard to fight and get kills out of train and zerg groups.
I'm not talking that there are not any good defense combats out there that ends with the win and a fat 10k+ defense tick.
I'm talking that probability of such fights happening is low and mathematically it is more wise just to stick around the offensive groups (that usually turn quickly into big zerg groups - as all the faction is going where the profitable action is) and kill some stragglers and collecting 6k+ ticks and some 1.5k+ ticks for flipping the resources.
You just get over 10k AP in less than 10 minutes of PVP-ing.

You should really not care about APs if you choose to gallop to a keep that was flagged to try to rescue it.

should not care AP?! AP is a reward for killing players, offence and defence keep and resourse..... sorry but if you defended keep and gain 0AP.... you do nothing for defence(useless). I run with train.... but if i run solo i gain more AP, than if with raid.
+ solo you can't rescue nothing.... it's mass PvP.... if res or keep lost... try to kill as much as possible.

Exactly that was my feeling! I felt useless after 3 hours of defense play - as we lost all the keeps I defended and I didn't get much AP.
I was pouring oils from 2 jars at the same time and doing light attacks and launching meteors in between the jar switch.
IDK maybe I was doing it wrong - as according to AP gain I was definitely doing something wrong.

Now I don't rush to defend keeps anymore -as certainly I'm not good at it - I'd rather find some PVP action next to the keeps that are about to flip in my faction's color - much more rewarding - more fun - and most important - I'm very good at it(according to AP flow).

Honestly, that's about all you can do if you are the only or one of few defenders. So you were doing it right, its just that you were fighting a lost cause with little AP to show for it.

There's honor to be had in doing that for the faction, but like most things that are honorable, there's little reward other than honor.

Didgerion

VaranisArano wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

3k in 3 hours..... no comments ))) lol))) HOW IT'S POSSIBLE???

Just put your timer on when you defend a keep and count APs.
When the keep is gone add more time for travel and other stuff.
Multiply the time and APs with a coefficient that will bring you to 3 hours and you'll see the AP potential of defense.

Now do the opposite.
Count AP on a successful flip with all resources and other post-flip-ticks (as you get lots of them while attacking next to a zerg) add travel time till the next keep and multiply and see the AP potential

And if you get a different ratio (more balanced) between two scenarios then post it here.

lol))) how you defend?! you kill players?? just put 2 oils and you will get AP...... AP going not for solo killing or KB.... they coming for damage done.... more damage more AP, then enemy down ))) if you want more AP use sieges while defend keeps..... or put restro staff on back bar and support other players ))) but 3k in 3 hours... it's some joke )))) for me is terrible day if i have 30k/h.

Most AP coming from combat.... yes tick is good.... bot most AP coming from killings.

Again, depends on what side of the front you are - as I said in OP it is very hard to fight and get kills out of train and zerg groups.
I'm not talking that there are not any good defense combats out there that ends with the win and a fat 10k+ defense tick.
I'm talking that probability of such fights happening is low and mathematically it is more wise just to stick around the offensive groups (that usually turn quickly into big zerg groups - as all the faction is going where the profitable action is) and kill some stragglers and collecting 6k+ ticks and some 1.5k+ ticks for flipping the resources.
You just get over 10k AP in less than 10 minutes of PVP-ing.

You should really not care about APs if you choose to gallop to a keep that was flagged to try to rescue it.

should not care AP?! AP is a reward for killing players, offence and defence keep and resourse..... sorry but if you defended keep and gain 0AP.... you do nothing for defence(useless). I run with train.... but if i run solo i gain more AP, than if with raid.
+ solo you can't rescue nothing.... it's mass PvP.... if res or keep lost... try to kill as much as possible.

Exactly that was my feeling! I felt useless after 3 hours of defense play - as we lost all the keeps I defended and I didn't get much AP.
I was pouring oils from 2 jars at the same time and doing light attacks and launching meteors in between the jar switch.
IDK maybe I was doing it wrong - as according to AP gain I was definitely doing something wrong.

Now I don't rush to defend keeps anymore -as certainly I'm not good at it - I'd rather find some PVP action next to the keeps that are about to flip in my faction's color - much more rewarding - more fun - and most important - I'm very good at it(according to AP flow).

Honestly, that's about all you can do if you are the only or one of few defenders. So you were doing it right, its just that you were fighting a lost cause with little AP to show for it.

There's honor to be had in doing that for the faction, but like most things that are honorable, there's little reward other than honor.

IDK man, I'm not sure that defending is the best HONOR-Generator activity. No one told me "Didgerion! The alliance will remember you!"
While on the other hand it is honorable as well to kill 4-5 enemies in a 1vX situation - but you need good gear to do so - and you need gold and AP to get geared up.

But maybe that can be fixed - maybe you would see more players joining the defense if ZOS would reward AP for failed attempts, and maybe that even could turn out the result of defense into a successful one .... maybe....

Asardes

I did recently level my AvA skills to 10 on my Warden. I've made an average of about ~50K AP per hour, playing an average of 2-3 hours over 9-10 days. I seldom grouped, and resource and keep ticks made less than half of my gains, the rest were kill contributions and healing allies. This is a slightly higher proportion of "PvDoor" than I get on other, older characters, since, being more experienced, I do kill more players on those. Magicka Sorcerer has probably the best ration, since he blows people up with Mages Wrath, and takes many kill contributions when he throws negates on large groups than subsequently wipe to sieges and player attacks. Oddly enough, even if sorcerers are the 2nd most numerous class in Cyrodiil after Nightblades (according to kill statistics over multiple characters) I see very few negates on EotS zergs, and restraining prison even less. Some people clearly need to L2P.