Best AP grind rotation

Didgerion

Dr_Rektar wrote: »

no counter? you need to learn some ingame mechanics than. Lesson one - rolldodge

uhmm....I'm playing a mag sorc...next lesson please...

Beardimus

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This post is nonsense,

A true AP farm is just people flipping flags, and they have been banned for this.

Have they?

As seen people doing this very recently on quiet campaigns ..

When you see the same names multiple times on the top ten on multi alliances its obvious how rife it is.

Asardes

1. Make Magicka NB and level it to 50
2. Get Vicious Death and Julianos or Spinner
3. Wait for next pach when they remove AoE caps
4. Farm the said trains when they flip flags
5. Profit

Didgerion

Asardes wrote: »

1. Make Magicka NB and level it to 50
2. Get Vicious Death and Julianos or Spinner
3. Wait for next pach when they remove AoE caps
4. Farm the said trains when they flip flags
5. Profit

Yeah that's one of my plans, except I'm planning to use stygian set instead of Julianos.

But I truly believe that train groups can be fixed peacefully by adjusting the reason of their creation.
If there won't be needs to join train groups then no one will join it and will play according to their's best strategy plan (whatever that is).

Loralai_907

I'm still stuck on the 3k AP in a few hours comment. How? I mean, I am not that experienced in PvP, but even I do WAY better than that. But I try to GO to where the fights are. Defend keeps, take keeps, take resources, take back resources, kill other players. And I die. Sometimes I die a lot. I'm not focused on the AP part for myself. For me its about the fights. Lots of big fights means lots more AP. No AP means you aren't getting into any fights. And I love big fights, they are super fun.

jaws343

Didgerion wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I think you will find district grinding in Imperial City more effective then - if you're only looking for PvDoor action and AP gain.

Yeah but you need to buy it first.

I'm looking to PVP and I do it over and over and over, standing on the keep and trying to defend it. Loosing 3-4 keeps in a row due to being greatly over-numbered. I get 3k AP in 3 hours which is fine - I like PVPing and lousing is part of the deal.
Until the next day when the opposite thing is happening - our faction outnumbers the other two this time and we get 4 keeps in a row. And my AP gain is 60k.
The AP tick for conquering a keep is big - also there are few failed attempts of retaking the keep right after - which gives you several ticks for defending the keep as well.

And this is a problem 60k vs 3k.
You just don't want to PVP with the outcome of 3k anymore. You'll seek ways to pvp with 60k gain - either by switching factions, or just logging in at a different time. And eventually you become a train too

mommadani907 wrote: »

I'm still stuck on the 3k AP in a few hours comment. How? I mean, I am not that experienced in PvP, but even I do WAY better than that. But I try to GO to where the fights are. Defend keeps, take keeps, take resources, take back resources, kill other players. And I die. Sometimes I die a lot. I'm not focused on the AP part for myself. For me its about the fights. Lots of big fights means lots more AP. No AP means you aren't getting into any fights. And I love big fights, they are super fun.

Yeah, the 3k AP in 3 hours is baffling. I am pretty sure i have made that while sitting in a keep for 5 minutes and taking out the trash or starting the dishwasher or going the restroom. And in a good defensive stand, I have seen 10K defensive ticks. And that doesn't include the AP from killing players during the defense.

Didgerion

mommadani907 wrote: »

I'm still stuck on the 3k AP in a few hours comment. How? I mean, I am not that experienced in PvP, but even I do WAY better than that. But I try to GO to where the fights are. Defend keeps, take keeps, take resources, take back resources, kill other players. And I die. Sometimes I die a lot. I'm not focused on the AP part for myself. For me its about the fights. Lots of big fights means lots more AP. No AP means you aren't getting into any fights. And I love big fights, they are super fun.

I was defending keeps non grouped. I tried to be as effective as I could (defending and not AP farming) - using sieges oils and landing meteors here and there. I did kill 3-4 players at every keep but each kill gave me no more than 200 AP - and there was no defense tick from the keeps.
15 minutes between keep attacks - 15 minutes for loosing it - 4 keeps. That's 2 hours of playtime and less then 3k APs.

Why playing defense at all then?, why not switching factions and play offence instead (I believe that lots of players do it already) or login in few hours later for the retaking phase.

Didgerion

jaws343 wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I think you will find district grinding in Imperial City more effective then - if you're only looking for PvDoor action and AP gain.

Yeah but you need to buy it first.

I'm looking to PVP and I do it over and over and over, standing on the keep and trying to defend it. Loosing 3-4 keeps in a row due to being greatly over-numbered. I get 3k AP in 3 hours which is fine - I like PVPing and lousing is part of the deal.
Until the next day when the opposite thing is happening - our faction outnumbers the other two this time and we get 4 keeps in a row. And my AP gain is 60k.
The AP tick for conquering a keep is big - also there are few failed attempts of retaking the keep right after - which gives you several ticks for defending the keep as well.

And this is a problem 60k vs 3k.
You just don't want to PVP with the outcome of 3k anymore. You'll seek ways to pvp with 60k gain - either by switching factions, or just logging in at a different time. And eventually you become a train too

mommadani907 wrote: »

I'm still stuck on the 3k AP in a few hours comment. How? I mean, I am not that experienced in PvP, but even I do WAY better than that. But I try to GO to where the fights are. Defend keeps, take keeps, take resources, take back resources, kill other players. And I die. Sometimes I die a lot. I'm not focused on the AP part for myself. For me its about the fights. Lots of big fights means lots more AP. No AP means you aren't getting into any fights. And I love big fights, they are super fun.

Yeah, the 3k AP in 3 hours is baffling. I am pretty sure i have made that while sitting in a keep for 5 minutes and taking out the trash or starting the dishwasher or going the restroom. And in a good defensive stand, I have seen 10K defensive ticks. And that doesn't include the AP from killing players during the defense.

First of all I'm talking about 3 hours of unsuccessful defenses - there were no ticks there.

The ratio between number of defensive tick VS offensive ticks is close to 0 (when all enemy faction is in one place) and you just don't have the numbers to defend it - and there are 10k offensive ticks there as well.
Why playing defense when Math is crying all against it?

Nemeliom

Didgerion wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I think you will find district grinding in Imperial City more effective then - if you're only looking for PvDoor action and AP gain.

Yeah but you need to buy it first.

I'm looking to PVP and I do it over and over and over, standing on the keep and trying to defend it. Loosing 3-4 keeps in a row due to being greatly over-numbered. I get 3k AP in 3 hours which is fine - I like PVPing and lousing is part of the deal.
Until the next day when the opposite thing is happening - our faction outnumbers the other two this time and we get 4 keeps in a row. And my AP gain is 60k.
The AP tick for conquering a keep is big - also there are few failed attempts of retaking the keep right after - which gives you several ticks for defending the keep as well.

And this is a problem 60k vs 3k.
You just don't want to PVP with the outcome of 3k anymore. You'll seek ways to pvp with 60k gain - either by switching factions, or just logging in at a different time. And eventually you become a train too

If you only gain 3k you are doing something veeeery wrong.
2 kills = 3.2k.

If that's your case, then don't fight zerg vs zerg, just go with a small group, take a resource and defend it. Farm people in the tower.

Loralai_907

Maybe you need to play in a different campaign, or like you said a different time. I play in a crowded campaign because I adore the big fights. When I am not trying I am getting 60k AP in a few hours. If you are playing in a campaign that doesn't have a lot going on, that may be the issue. Sure, we go through bouts of not a lot happening, but then everything picks back up and we have fights going on all over the map. I do a lot of finishing up at one keep and getting over to another for a new fight. I couldn't imagine wanting to switch factions just to get fights. Leveling up new characters is such a hassle. And I am having a blast, even if I won't group with people yet or say much in chat. I really like the people for the most part.

And don't get me wrong, I'm playing AD, we are not the big winners here. But we take keeps, and we lose keeps. Sometimes we do better than others. But I think thats pretty much standard for all factions. Back and forth. If I was on a map that was just being steamrolled all the time, I wouldn't want to stay there. If your whole experience is not having any wins, I can see why that would be an issue.

Nemeliom

I also think that pvp is not about farming AP. It's about having fun. If you get AP while having fun, all the better.

Dojohoda

Yes, when you, as a solo player, see a ball group running around the top of a keep or in and out of resource towers or etc.. retreat. They will run you over like shameless ap huzzies. Don't give them your AP. Retreat into the keep or look at the map and find some other action.

Hurtfan

You honestly could get a ton of AP just sitting in a keep that's getting some action. If it's a successful defense, all the better. Like others have mentioned, something is wrong if you only received 3K AP your last time in Cyrodiil.

To avoid queues at night, I eat dinner while sitting in a keep and rack up xp and AP while doing it.

Didgerion

Nemeliom wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I think you will find district grinding in Imperial City more effective then - if you're only looking for PvDoor action and AP gain.

Yeah but you need to buy it first.

I'm looking to PVP and I do it over and over and over, standing on the keep and trying to defend it. Loosing 3-4 keeps in a row due to being greatly over-numbered. I get 3k AP in 3 hours which is fine - I like PVPing and lousing is part of the deal.
Until the next day when the opposite thing is happening - our faction outnumbers the other two this time and we get 4 keeps in a row. And my AP gain is 60k.
The AP tick for conquering a keep is big - also there are few failed attempts of retaking the keep right after - which gives you several ticks for defending the keep as well.

And this is a problem 60k vs 3k.
You just don't want to PVP with the outcome of 3k anymore. You'll seek ways to pvp with 60k gain - either by switching factions, or just logging in at a different time. And eventually you become a train too

If you only gain 3k you are doing something veeeery wrong.
2 kills = 3.2k.

If that's your case, then don't fight zerg vs zerg, just go with a small group, take a resource and defend it. Farm people in the tower.

First of all I was set for defending my faction's keeps and not to fight individuals at a resource for example. And I was not rewarded for it sadly.

So next time I have to do it RIGHT way and farm a Resource for 1.5k tick for flipping it and few more Ks for killing noobs trying to retake it - while may faction is about to loose the scrolls.

Wreuntzylla

People don't seem to understand that the list of top 3 siege in the game doesn't include coldfire or flame.

Oil pot cat, lightning ballista and meatbag. Want to test the truth of what I say? If a ballgroup is on farm mode at Chalman mine, setup an oil cat on the rock and see how long before the whole zerg is jumping its way up to you...

Ruckly

Why do you want to farm AP to begin with? Once you have your pvp set then all there really is to spend AP on is siege weapons and maybe pots. The relevant quantity is the campaign score.

If you want to counter a 50 man train you can't really(the only real weakness to them is they have to stack on a leader). At least not directly on an open field. You either have to let them over extend then try to wipe them near a keep with siege weapons and push the living away from the dead bodies so they don't get ressed and have a long respawn and run back. Or you can split your own forces and hit behind them away from their train and again let the train over extend while you grab keeps and surrounding nodes for campaign points. You can even wipe your overextended group after doing enough damage then respawn back at the keeps being attacked by a train(or near by if the particular keep is ua).

Also I believe AP is divided from some total number among each member of a train so if there is more people in a train the less each individual gets for killing a player or capping a keep. Thus if you are a 20 man group behind walls and you can wipe a 50 man group by using siege weapons and ults/procs your AP score for defending the keep + what you get for wiping the group should be larger than if you are in 50 man group wiping a 20. I think that is how it works.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

The grammar in this thread is far worse than Cyrodiil performance...

Didgerion

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

The grammar in this thread is far worse than Cyrodiil performance...

Yeah, I bet the grammar is not perfect. And it would be more helpful if you would be more specific at what is wrong with my grammar and I'll fix it for future releases.

Also I can put it down fluently in other two languages but I doubt you know any other language but English. As if you would know other languages you would understand how hard it is to be fluent and grammatically correct in a non native language and most probably would not make a meaningless joke on this matter.

Dawnblade

And this is part of why I dislike Cyrodiil PVP - it is too open-ended and unbalanced and you end up with everyone from players who got lost to those looking to farm AP to those looking for a large fight to those looking to gank to those running silly troll builds to players swapping factions at the drop of a hat to players trying to tank a faction to just about anything.

When I want competitive PVP, I play a game that has more in the way of balance - which typically means smaller scale arena style PVP with ranking / match-making systems.

So if you see me in Cyrodiil - it is ONLY because there are skill lines I want, and I WILL do whatever is best from an AP / hour perspective to get my skills and get on with playing the rest of the game.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Didgerion wrote: »

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

The grammar in this thread is far worse than Cyrodiil performance...

Yeah, I bet the grammar is not perfect. And it would be more helpful if you would be more specific at what is wrong with my grammar and I'll fix it for future releases.

Also I can put it down fluently in other two languages but I doubt you know any other language but English. As if you would know other languages you would understand how hard it is to be fluent and grammatically correct in a non native language and most probably would not make a meaningless joke on this matter.

Wasn't really talking about you I can tell English isn't your first language I was more talking about the guy who spelled ridiculous "rediculus" or however he botched it. Also way to assume I only know one language but that's fine I don't particularly care what you think. Also if you want my opinion on your post I think what you proposed its beyond stupid. Lets just run in circles because I need AP. Look I suck at PVP because I'm new to it and still learning but I was able to get over 300k AP in about 4-5 hours just by running with like 8-9 guildmates. The best way to grind CP is to capture keeps and resources all we did was go to a fort or keep take all the resources and then take the keep. Once we took the keep we would check for any under attack if there was we would go try to save it or take it back and if not we moved to the next keep. I would get 50-60k almost every hour and my guild mates who are better than me were getting way more. The key is to find a group that communicates well and is objective based and AP is easily obtainable even if you are new like I am.

Shawn_PT

Didgerion wrote: »

I was defending keeps non grouped.

This was your issue. I was rightfully appalled a few weeks ago when I went for some PvE and decided to jump on a siege nearby because why not. I healed. I rezzed. I died. I sieged. I got a couple of kills in. And when the keep was taken, all I got was a massive tick of 199 AP.

199.

For taking the last keep for Emperor on my faction. Yes I was inside the keep when it flipped. No I did not move away or stand there sneaking just to leech the tick. No it was not a defensive tick, we flipped the keep. Had I been grouped with the rest of the players I would likely have received AP for their efforts as well. But not like this. Lesson learned. When solo, don't bother jumping in.

Didgerion

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

The grammar in this thread is far worse than Cyrodiil performance...

Yeah, I bet the grammar is not perfect. And it would be more helpful if you would be more specific at what is wrong with my grammar and I'll fix it for future releases.

Also I can put it down fluently in other two languages but I doubt you know any other language but English. As if you would know other languages you would understand how hard it is to be fluent and grammatically correct in a non native language and most probably would not make a meaningless joke on this matter.

Wasn't really talking about you I can tell English isn't your first language I was more talking about the guy who spelled ridiculous "rediculus" or however he botched it. Also way to assume I only know one language but that's fine I don't particularly care what you think. Also if you want my opinion on your post I think what you proposed its beyond stupid. Lets just run in circles because I need AP. Look I suck at PVP because I'm new to it and still learning but I was able to get over 300k AP in about 4-5 hours just by running with like 8-9 guildmates. The best way to grind CP is to capture keeps and resources all we did was go to a fort or keep take all the resources and then take the keep. Once we took the keep we would check for any under attack if there was we would go try to save it or take it back and if not we moved to the next keep. I would get 50-60k almost every hour and my guild mates who are better than me were getting way more. The key is to find a group that communicates well and is objective based and AP is easily obtainable even if you are new like I am.

Oh man, "running circles" was a sarcasm, I tried to make it clear it is a sarcasm by adding odd and even days in it.
I know that running circles is stupid, but that's how current Cirodiil is pushing us to play - it is happening already it's just not circles (yet) but lines - 3 keeps forward 3 keeps backward and so on - leaded by zerg groups and in many cases unorganized - they just form naturally because of the current AP gaining formulas.

It is just not worth spending time defending - especially when you see 50+ players outside the wall - as you will loose the keep in 10-20 minutes and you will get 0 AP for trying hard to save it.

While on the other hand if you go to the other end of the map instead where your faction is flipping a keep - you get 6k+ AP just for the tick - without casting any skill.
Or even worse - you just can switch factions and join the zerg that is outside your keep for a 6k AP tick - and when the cycle is over login back to your faction and start working on retaking the keeps.

Anyway I believe there is a way to spread these zerg groups without adding any anti-zerg mechanic in game - ZOS just needs to reward the failed defense attempts as well - and you'll see how many more brave players will join the defense then.
And even better - scale it with the number of the players that received the attack tick.

Maybe I need to find an addon that tracks AP gain and show it in another post what a big difference there is between offensive and defensive play-styles.

Didgerion

VaranisArano wrote: »

Brumme wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This post is nonsense,

A true AP farm is just people flipping flags, and they have been banned for this.

how can you get banned for flipping flags ?

When you and your buddies join up with a guy and his buddies from a different faction and you all go to a resource/outpost together and have a really fun night of shooting the breeze that just so happens to involve your group sitting on the flag and getting AP and then their group sitting on the flag and getting AP and then seeing how many times you can swap places without having to fight anyone other than the resources guards...

More specifically, during the double AP week when ZOS made every campaign no CP and when one of the AD back resources at either Bloodmayne or Black Boot (I can't remember which) gave extra AP, people went to an outpost or that resource and traded the resource for AP taking turns flipping the flags with no combat.

There's a big difference between a raid PvDooring a back keep capturing the keep and heading off to the next keep without fighting (the AP train the OP seems to be describing, but also behavior that might have very little to do with AP and everything to do with cutting off an enemy force depending on how the map looks at the time) and groups cooperating to trade AP O-ticks with no fighting between flipping flags.

I was referring to all forms of trains and zerg situations where 5 players need to stand out against 20 players for example.
Those 5 players just don't get rewarded for trying to do so. And as result 5 becomes 3 and 20 becomes 40 in no time.

And you know what happens next : Keep1 is taken then Keep2 then Keep3 - the steam cools down - the other faction pulls together and its is going in reverse now Keep3 - Keep2 - Keep1 - and all AP goes to zerg or train groups - which makes you join one as well if you need AP (or find your thing like solo play at a resource) - and most players in Cirodiil needs Alliance Points - as Cyrodiil Gold vendor sometime brings very good gold jewelry on the market.

IDK man I just want to see more epic fights all around Cirodiil and not just zerg vs empty keep fights.

Didgerion

Shawn_PT wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

I was defending keeps non grouped.

This was your issue. I was rightfully appalled a few weeks ago when I went for some PvE and decided to jump on a siege nearby because why not. I healed. I rezzed. I died. I sieged. I got a couple of kills in. And when the keep was taken, all I got was a massive tick of 199 AP.

199.

For taking the last keep for Emperor on my faction. Yes I was inside the keep when it flipped. No I did not move away or stand there sneaking just to leech the tick. No it was not a defensive tick, we flipped the keep. Had I been grouped with the rest of the players I would likely have received AP for their efforts as well. But not like this. Lesson learned. When solo, don't bother jumping in.

Didgerion

Most probable you didn't notice the tick.

The tick happens few seconds before the keep changes color.
And it is a 6k+ tick without doing anything.

You just come to a keep put your chair out - sit and watch - and you get 6k when the keep is flipped.

199 AP you describe is the echo tick based on the players that died next to a keep after it was taken.

When you kill a player next to a keep it counts as a defense - and you get a defense tick soon after the kill (or heal in your case)

ordraveeb17_ESO

3k in 3 hours..... no comments ))) lol))) HOW IT'S POSSIBLE???

Didgerion

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

3k in 3 hours..... no comments ))) lol))) HOW IT'S POSSIBLE???

Just put your timer on when you defend a keep and count APs.
When the keep is gone add more time for travel and other stuff.
Multiply the time and APs with a coefficient that will bring you to 3 hours and you'll see the AP potential of defense.

Now do the opposite.
Count AP on a successful flip with all resources and other post-flip-ticks (as you get lots of them while attacking next to a zerg) add travel time till the next keep and multiply and see the AP potential

And if you get a different ratio (more balanced) between two scenarios then post it here.

VaranisArano

Shawn_PT wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

I was defending keeps non grouped.

This was your issue. I was rightfully appalled a few weeks ago when I went for some PvE and decided to jump on a siege nearby because why not. I healed. I rezzed. I died. I sieged. I got a couple of kills in. And when the keep was taken, all I got was a massive tick of 199 AP.

199.

For taking the last keep for Emperor on my faction. Yes I was inside the keep when it flipped. No I did not move away or stand there sneaking just to leech the tick. No it was not a defensive tick, we flipped the keep. Had I been grouped with the rest of the players I would likely have received AP for their efforts as well. But not like this. Lesson learned. When solo, don't bother jumping in.

If you were inside the keep when it flipped for your faction, the minimum tick you received was 6K AP. That goes for everyone on the keep grounds when the flags turn, grouped or not. If you only saw 199 AP, you saw the wrong tick.

An O-tick is 6K + (AP from the enemy players killed/number of players on your team present).

VaranisArano

Didgerion wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Brumme wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This post is nonsense,

A true AP farm is just people flipping flags, and they have been banned for this.

how can you get banned for flipping flags ?

When you and your buddies join up with a guy and his buddies from a different faction and you all go to a resource/outpost together and have a really fun night of shooting the breeze that just so happens to involve your group sitting on the flag and getting AP and then their group sitting on the flag and getting AP and then seeing how many times you can swap places without having to fight anyone other than the resources guards...

More specifically, during the double AP week when ZOS made every campaign no CP and when one of the AD back resources at either Bloodmayne or Black Boot (I can't remember which) gave extra AP, people went to an outpost or that resource and traded the resource for AP taking turns flipping the flags with no combat.

There's a big difference between a raid PvDooring a back keep capturing the keep and heading off to the next keep without fighting (the AP train the OP seems to be describing, but also behavior that might have very little to do with AP and everything to do with cutting off an enemy force depending on how the map looks at the time) and groups cooperating to trade AP O-ticks with no fighting between flipping flags.

I was referring to all forms of trains and zerg situations where 5 players need to stand out against 20 players for example.
Those 5 players just don't get rewarded for trying to do so. And as result 5 becomes 3 and 20 becomes 40 in no time.

And you know what happens next : Keep1 is taken then Keep2 then Keep3 - the steam cools down - the other faction pulls together and its is going in reverse now Keep3 - Keep2 - Keep1 - and all AP goes to zerg or train groups - which makes you join one as well if you need AP (or find your thing like solo play at a resource) - and most players in Cirodiil needs Alliance Points - as Cyrodiil Gold vendor sometime brings very good gold jewelry on the market.

IDK man I just want to see more epic fights all around Cirodiil and not just zerg vs empty keep fights.

I was specifically answering the question "How can you get banned for flipping flags?"

The answer is that you'll get banned if you are obviously cooperating with an opposing force to trade a resource/outpost/keep back and forth.

Playing Ring-Around-The Home-Keeps where a raid hits the Tri-keeps in quick succession until another raid beats them doesn't count as a bannable offense because that's a completely legitimate tactic and not cooperating with the enemy faction at all.

Soleya

ordraveeb17_ESO wrote: »

3k in 3 hours..... no comments ))) lol))) HOW IT'S POSSIBLE???

A non pvper, defending keeps and the defense fails (no defense ticks) can get almost no AP.

Trying to take a resource from a destro ult zerg and not succeeding will mean no AP.

It's not hard to not get AP if you aren't experienced in PVP.

To the OP, capping resources is easiest AP, followed by repairing walls. Neither of them require you to be in PVP gear or actually be good at PVP.

Repairing a keep after it upgrades to higher health walls can net you 18k AP if you do it solo (kill a delve boss for the AP boost first). It will however cost quite a bit of gold/ap in repair kits.

Now if you actually want to PVP (not just doing it for Vigor, etc) then I suggest looking were the action is and going there. After awhile you'll get more experienced in what fights are worth your time. Zergs inside resource towers aren't worth it. Single players who just run around trees/rocks/towers casting mist form aren't worth your time either.

Early on I would suggest being more ranged or healer and staying behind other players until you get more comfortable. Depending on the server you play on and alliance you may be able to get in groups. For example, I find that in NA CP campaign on AD you rarely get into a group using zone chat, better off finding a guild. Which is why I just run solo instead and find action.