Will ZOS ignore us forever?

Mannix1958

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

I just wish they would fix their game engine...

The multi-core usage / parallelism is one of the worst of current games. What is even worse is that the game basically freezes for 10-20 secs whenever a core-switch from one ctx to another happens (AMD Ryzen) due to different caches between the ctx'.
Think about beeing in the middle of a boss fight or vMA and the game suddenly deciding to "reboot" by having to reload all stuff into an empty cache on a different core-complex of the CPU. it means 0 FPS during that time so basically you are dead no matter what.

Except this is not happening on my system...10-20 second freezes every time a core switch occurs.

Kay1

ThinkerOfThings wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Yo,

i know. Clickbait title but i mean it like i wrote it.

Everyday a new thread is created complaining about the biggest issue in ESO. The horrible lag in Cyrodiil. Everyday. When they do ESO live stream the chat is spammend with questions about the ongoing lag in Cyrodiil.

They are not reacting to it. They are just ignoring it. No Comment on Forum, no Comment in Stream. There are now more then 4 Patches without any improvement to this major issue.

We really need an big improvement to this issue. With this lag competetive pvp is not possible. Everything has a huge delay or is just not working.

And another Question: Why are there no pvp related DLC? We got Imperial City wich is kinda pvp related. Thats it. Nothing more. Okay Battlegrounds where are most of the gamemodes more pve cause its just running for the objective...

ZOS, pls improve Cyrodiil. Increase the Player Limit, Decrease the lag. Make Cyrodiil great again!

Here is an idea, get rid of Cyrodil PvP altogether, make Cyrodil a PvE zone and limit PvP to instanced battlegrounds. Problem Solved.

You want to close servers?

Lmao ESO without PvP, the only good point about this game.

mook-eb16_ESO

Players mostly just zerg until zos put some mechanisms on the map to limit this, many people have made suggestions, then the lag will not be fixed. there were times when lag was even worse, than it now count yourselves lucky. zos will remove aoe caps may lighten server load in some respects, but whether this will translated into less lag remains to be seen as there will be more uptake in aoe use. when aoe caps go everyone who wants to play single target will cry about aoe's as they will dominate more than they already do. personally I hate the complete mindlessness off bombs on play, hoping your groups heals can out heal the peak damage of the other group: this is what will kill the game more than the lag in my mind.

Biro123

frausty wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

frausty wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

looks like you're not being ignored

That response is almost cut and paste from the dozens of other times threads like this have been made over the last 4 years.
The, we'll look into it, only means something if a tangible result comes out.
Game performance issues are about to hit 4 years with no real change.

So you get a response and you are still not happy. Go play something else. You're the consumer after all. Or, if you are so certain it's easy to fix, apply for a job with Zenimax and show them your skills.

I'm not happy with the response because we've heard it countless times. You probably haven't played long if you think that a response from ZOS is anything other than attempt to quiet discord.
I'm a field service engineer for high end CNC equipment. If anything I service performed as badly as this server, it would have been scrapped already.

But that is not the same thing at all. I agree with you that it needs to be fixed but you cannot compare fixing a piece of equipment to fixing this environment across 3 different hardware platforms. Plus take in to account the non-uniformity in PC clients with add-ons etc and network/ISP lag and even differences in console clients with PS4 Pro/Xbox One X etc. Everyone seems to think you can flick a switch and make it better. It's just not that simple. You really need a good understanding of IT infrastructure, database engineering, software coding, and a number of other topics to be able to even comprehend the difficulty in fixing this. I understand the infrastructure side, (in principle as I don't know how the server farm is actually architected), but the other two elements mentioned I have no clue about apart from a rudimentary understanding of how they sit on the infrastructure and basic methodologies for database design.

As other posters have mentioned, rolling back some of the graphical improvements, (both client and server side), may help but for console players that is not really an option so that is not the fix for all. Put more servers in may help with the number of calculations per second required but it may mean a rewrite of the core code to do this. Development projects can take months or even years when the core code is already in use by millions of players worldwide.

Imagine if ZOS took a DevOps approach and released a new fix every hour to keep everyone moaning on the forums happy - imagine the performance then and the negativity it would receive. Look at Apple's AppStore. This is effectively a DevOps environment and why your Apps update every few days/weeks. Then look at the reviews for each app as a new version is put on the store. It's the same process, development cycles take time.

I was playing Maelstrom Arena last night and got some lag which meant I kept getting wiped by the poison clouds. Now, the simple answer there is to remove the poison clouds,. However, that means that you need to re-architect that level to make it a challenge without the poison - which takes time.

My last comment on this is - everyone of a certain age remembers Windows Me.

And I sit on the software side, having worked for multiple global banks on systems that make money move from one account to another. From one bank to another, from one country to another.

It absolutely is possibly to re-engineer code without negatively impacting the user base. But there are often 2 ways of looking at these problems. One is to have a small number of relatively junior staff trying to hold the thing together with tape and string. But they often reach a point where tape isnt enough because the basic wiring is wrong.This seems to be where ZOS are with cyro.

The other is where management backs a large project to rebuild/re-engineer/redesign the system with lessons learned from the first version. Yes it will cost money, and yes it will introduce more short-term problems but it should produce a system that the tape sticks to. One that, with the right architecture, it can handle the load, and the remaining issues should just ba a case of some tweaking.

As a customer, I want zos to be doing a number 2. Because its very evident that number 1 isn't cutting it anymore.

Girl_Number8

itzTJ wrote: »

I just wish so much that a zos team member would go try to solo ( or even duo ) pvp on xbox in vivec on a weekend. Really i do. Stream it on twitch. Its just terrible.

Oh that would be one I would watch

Gnozo

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

Just want to let you know that we have been seeing your concerns. Game performance and loading screens is something that we're constantly monitoring and investigating ways to improve. That said, we do understand there have been an increase in reported issues lately, and we know it's frustrating. We have some fixes for loading screens coming to next week's PTS patch, and believe we have some leads for overall performance improvements that we're actively digging into.

So far thank you Gina for respondig. You are doing a great job wich is really not the easiest job!

This game has been out for like 4 years so far. PvP was 600 player per alliance wich was kinda promised. Now its 150 per Alliance and its still not playable in Prime Time. I know you introduced a lot of new mechanics like CP new sets and stuff wich clearly takes some performance but at the currenct state of the game its not only frustrating to play.

PvP is the endgame in ESO and its simpy not working. Who would like to play a game where he dies to everything cause its lagging. Skills not working, Shields with massive delay, Heals with delay. Everything kills you in a sticky situation. Not cause you did something wrong. Not cause your enemy was smarter or simply better then you. No. It was the games fault cause the server couldn´t proceed your actions fast enough.

This is just game breaking and needs to be fixed. I don´t know if you play PvP by yourself but if you do you should know the struggle. The frustration. Pls fix the Latency issues in Cyrodiil. This game could be so great. Pls make i great

xSkullfox

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Basically before the game launched they promised that they could deliver 600 players on screen in PvP without lag. That's not possible.

Solution is to scale down the allowed amount of players in campaigns or start writing up some p2p netcode for pvp.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2013/jan/29/elder-scrolls-online-characters

PVP takes place in the huge central zone of Cyrodiil, and the obvious question is how many players can get involved. "We're planning on having 2,000 people at once in Cyrodiil," says Firor. "In a particular fight our client is optimised to have 200 players on-screen at one time, which means you'll have very large battles within an even larger battlefield."

Tandor

Vizier wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

You're just not going to have real-time performance with the size of the map and the number of people mashing buttons.

Any time I've been in Cyrodiil in the middle of a big battle, I just take a deep breath and say, yes, this is exactly how fast a server can process and resolve this many simultaneous requests. There's no real way to fix that. There's no cure for people congesting a few map points instead of spreading smaller battles out throughout the map. It's turning PVP into a Black Friday queue where everyone's banging at the doors and claiming to be the first person in line. PVP DLC won't help the problem. If they're not fast, cheap, and easy AP farms, then they're inferior to Cyrodiil.

I don't see ZOS having any chance at appeasing people who choose playstyles that complicate improving performance. So in a way I see PVP as a reflection of the player base and not necessarily ZOS's fault.

No. That's not it. ZOS needs to roll back their 1.2 lighting and FX upgrade. Performance In Cyrodiil has been **** ever since that "upgrade." Seems they'd rather the game looks good rather than plays well.

People were complaining about performance in Cyrodiil long before that patch.

Apache_Kid

frausty wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

looks like you're not being ignored

That response is almost cut and paste from the dozens of other times threads like this have been made over the last 4 years.
The, we'll look into it, only means something if a tangible result comes out.
Game performance issues are about to hit 4 years with no real change.

So you get a response and you are still not happy. Go play something else. You're the consumer after all. Or, if you are so certain it's easy to fix, apply for a job with Zenimax and show them your skills.

No they should fix their product.

Vanthras79

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

Just want to let you know that we have been seeing your concerns. Game performance and loading screens is something that we're constantly monitoring and investigating ways to improve. That said, we do understand there have been an increase in reported issues lately, and we know it's frustrating. We have some fixes for loading screens coming to next week's PTS patch, and believe we have some leads for overall performance improvements that we're actively digging into.

Thanks Gina! Thanks for understanding our frustration! Sometimes just commenting on a post can mean a world of a difference in saying this is being looked at--we all know some of you /lurk, but we don't know what goes on behind those closed doors. Keep us updated! Thanks!

ThinkerOfThings

Kay1 wrote: »

ThinkerOfThings wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Yo,

i know. Clickbait title but i mean it like i wrote it.

Everyday a new thread is created complaining about the biggest issue in ESO. The horrible lag in Cyrodiil. Everyday. When they do ESO live stream the chat is spammend with questions about the ongoing lag in Cyrodiil.

They are not reacting to it. They are just ignoring it. No Comment on Forum, no Comment in Stream. There are now more then 4 Patches without any improvement to this major issue.

We really need an big improvement to this issue. With this lag competetive pvp is not possible. Everything has a huge delay or is just not working.

And another Question: Why are there no pvp related DLC? We got Imperial City wich is kinda pvp related. Thats it. Nothing more. Okay Battlegrounds where are most of the gamemodes more pve cause its just running for the objective...

ZOS, pls improve Cyrodiil. Increase the Player Limit, Decrease the lag. Make Cyrodiil great again!

Here is an idea, get rid of Cyrodil PvP altogether, make Cyrodil a PvE zone and limit PvP to instanced battlegrounds. Problem Solved.

You want to close servers?

Lmao ESO without PvP, the only good point about this game.

While Cyrodil PvP is fun, perhaps it would perform better if it was instanced for a smaller area with fewer people. Each 3rd of the map as it's own zone, until the overall issue(s) could be resolved.

xeNNNNN

Gnozo wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

Just want to let you know that we have been seeing your concerns. Game performance and loading screens is something that we're constantly monitoring and investigating ways to improve. That said, we do understand there have been an increase in reported issues lately, and we know it's frustrating. We have some fixes for loading screens coming to next week's PTS patch, and believe we have some leads for overall performance improvements that we're actively digging into.

So far thank you Gina for respondig. You are doing a great job wich is really not the easiest job!

This game has been out for like 4 years so far. PvP was 600 player per alliance wich was kinda promised. Now its 150 per Alliance and its still not playable in Prime Time. I know you introduced a lot of new mechanics like CP new sets and stuff wich clearly takes some performance but at the currenct state of the game its not only frustrating to play.

PvP is the endgame in ESO and its simpy not working. Who would like to play a game where he dies to everything cause its lagging. Skills not working, Shields with massive delay, Heals with delay. Everything kills you in a sticky situation. Not cause you did something wrong. Not cause your enemy was smarter or simply better then you. No. It was the games fault cause the server couldn´t proceed your actions fast enough.

This is just game breaking and needs to be fixed. I don´t know if you play PvP by yourself but if you do you should know the struggle. The frustration. Pls fix the Latency issues in Cyrodiil. This game could be so great. Pls make i great

Yeah abilities not working, any nightblades around know the pain of trying to tether when 60 of th opposing faction are hitting one outpost? I do because "trying" is the word, you cant even tether most of the time now.

- Laggy meteors hitting you 5 minutes after being landed on you by the player.
- Being CC 5 seconds AFTER the CC actually took place.
- Certain guilds intentionally faction stacking (getting pugs to stack on them on say "sejanus or BRK" onto one area too purposely lag the enemy factions out of cyrodil. (EU).

The list goes go on. Cyro is a mess right now.

Whats actually worse is right now we're in some what of a CC meta too. So when you have zergs spamming "scrubclench" (flame clench or shock clench) endlessly and then a ridiculous amount of other CC abilities everywhere combined with the lag its almost impossible too play. Its as if CC immunity doesn't exist. I even popped an immo pot last night and still some how got stunn half a second after popping it. Ridiculous.

zZzleepyhead

frausty wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

looks like you're not being ignored

That response is almost cut and paste from the dozens of other times threads like this have been made over the last 4 years.
The, we'll look into it, only means something if a tangible result comes out.
Game performance issues are about to hit 4 years with no real change.

So you get a response and you are still not happy. Go play something else. You're the consumer after all. Or, if you are so certain it's easy to fix, apply for a job with Zenimax and show them your skills.

do you even pvp, brah?

f047ys3v3n

1) They do continuously make changes to "improve" CYR performance. A year ago it was a bloody slideshow now I find they lag mostly playable and often not worth mentioning at all. Unfortunately, much of there "improvement" does seem to be simply cutting the number of players per alliance many times over. I have heard from 600 to about 120. (I actually hit 103 blues in an all consuming 16min continuous fight today so 120 seems about right)

2) 2 dlc's had significant PVP components with imp city and battlegrounds. Since then battlegrounds has had 2 additional mode updates. Sure, both of these updates are basically failures in terms of population but they are getting big buffs in extrinsic rewards with telvar buying storage and a big battleground AP buff next update. Still, given how few people actually play their new PVP content, it has been a big investment (same can be said for new PVE endgame trials and crazy hard dungeons with their ultra buffed Hodor modes.)

3) Long loadscreen bug is still a plague.

I would say the the reason that they are not reacting to the lag thing is that it has been addressed many times and continues to be so. As for actually getting all this done.... I find it very playable most of the time but the tiny player limit does make it anything but epic. Most of the time 80% of an alliances players are at one place. On PCNA his seems especially true for red and blue who heard their pugs more effectively. What yellows pugs do is really beyond me. Maybe they pick flowers or just get farmed at gates and bridges all day.

Skullstachio

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Throughout most of my gaming life, some games I have come across (Warframe included) I have noticed that some games have options that can be disabled/enabled which allow better performance at the cost of things such as quality, additional effects, etc.

In short term: having optional settings that boost overall performance at the expense of certain quality features may be what the ZOS team is looking for.

xeNNNNN

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

1) They do continuously make changes to "improve" CYR performance. A year ago it was a bloody slideshow now I find they lag mostly playable and often not worth mentioning at all. Unfortunately, much of there "improvement" does seem to be simply cutting the number of players per alliance many times over. I have heard from 600 to about 120. (I actually hit 103 blues in an all consuming 16min continuous fight today so 120 seems about right)

2) 2 dlc's had significant PVP components with imp city and battlegrounds. Since then battlegrounds has had 2 additional mode updates. Sure, both of these updates are basically failures in terms of population but they are getting big buffs in extrinsic rewards with telvar buying storage and a big battleground AP buff next update. Still, given how few people actually play their new PVP content, it has been a big investment (same can be said for new PVE endgame trials and crazy hard dungeons with their ultra buffed Hodor modes.)

3) Long loadscreen bug is still a plague.

I would say the the reason that they are not reacting to the lag thing is that it has been addressed many times and continues to be so. As for actually getting all this done.... I find it very playable most of the time but the tiny player limit does make it anything but epic. Most of the time 80% of an alliances players are at one place. On PCNA his seems especially true for red and blue who heard their pugs more effectively. What yellows pugs do is really beyond me. Maybe they pick flowers or just get farmed at gates and bridges all day.

The problem with their "fixes" is they arent actually fixes or improvements, they're band aids. Plasters. They're not actually doing anything long term.

And if they continue to cut the size of pvp down there would be no point in cyrodil at all.

They need too deal with the various software problems the game has.

I mean consider this (This is not a rant at you btw); there are people here who have actively stated they live only 10 minutes from the EU servers in frankfurt and have incredibly good internet connections to which they've provided evidence of and still they lag well beyond 100ms at any given time in cyrodil let alone someone countries away from germany who lag just as badly its clearly not on the user end for a vast majority of the players. This is a hardware (to a degree) and software issue (mostly) which must be remedied.

This is 2018 ffs not 2008. This kind of performance in any game which garners so much money from its customers is in no way shape or form acceptable in this day and age. No it is not.

KanedaSyndrome

xSkullfox wrote: »

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Basically before the game launched they promised that they could deliver 600 players on screen in PvP without lag. That's not possible.

Solution is to scale down the allowed amount of players in campaigns or start writing up some p2p netcode for pvp.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2013/jan/29/elder-scrolls-online-characters

PVP takes place in the huge central zone of Cyrodiil, and the obvious question is how many players can get involved. "We're planning on having 2,000 people at once in Cyrodiil," says Firor. "In a particular fight our client is optimised to have 200 players on-screen at one time, which means you'll have very large battles within an even larger battlefield."

Alright, 200 thenl. I stand corrected. Doesn't change the conclusion though

KanedaSyndrome

Any PvP system in this day and age should really look into marriaging server-client architecture with p2p netcode. This is the key to improving on aspects such as more players in same instance and reducing lag.

Jade1986

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

Just want to let you know that we have been seeing your concerns. Game performance and loading screens is something that we're constantly monitoring and investigating ways to improve. That said, we do understand there have been an increase in reported issues lately, and we know it's frustrating. We have some fixes for loading screens coming to next week's PTS patch, and believe we have some leads for overall performance improvements that we're actively digging into.

I hope so, because the weapon swap delays and loading screens are murdering my will to play in cyro.

Jade1986

Kali_Despoine wrote: »

ESO Lag
short answer
They cant fix it without rewriting the entire game
Long answer
They will not rewrite the entire game so lag is here to stay
long long answer
keep buying loot crates and houses but we will never fix the lag because there is not short term fix for it and we will not rewrite the entire game

Actually they just need to change how the servers work. For example when the game came out this lag and loading screen problem was a non issue, then they changed how the data is transferred and used a different setup, from what I understand, now we have this mess.

Gargath

I can't play competitively because of the differences between my latency and others, even if I have 15 Mbit stable connection, it's more than enough in PvE but a disaster in open PvP. With many players around I simply can't play effectively. I believe those who have much better connection are favoured by the game engine, no delay, plus their animation cancelling always work, when I try to do anything my abilities doesn't work or thet do every 2-nd try. Frustrating experience, sad.
PvP serves me only to unlock the abilites like Vigor for stamina PvE character and maybe to play as large group healer to steal AP for the PvP ranks and furnitures. But then good bye PvP.

Jade1986

Gargath wrote: »

I can't play competitively because of the differences between my latency and others, even if I have 15 Mbit stable connection, it's more than enough in PvE but a disaster in open PvP. With many players around I simply can't play effectively. I believe those who have much better connection are favoured by the game engine, no delay, plus their animation cancelling always work, when I try to do anything my abilities doesn't work or thet do every 2-nd try. Frustrating experience, sad.
PvP serves me only to unlock the abilites like Vigor for stamina PvE character and maybe to play as large group healer to steal AP for the PvP ranks and furnitures. But then good bye PvP.

I have a gig connection and live not 30 mins from the EU datacenter and still lag. Its a problem with their hardware and software, not your connection, trust you me.