Will ZOS ignore us forever?

Gnozo

Yo,

i know. Clickbait title but i mean it like i wrote it.

Everyday a new thread is created complaining about the biggest issue in ESO. The horrible lag in Cyrodiil. Everyday. When they do ESO live stream the chat is spammend with questions about the ongoing lag in Cyrodiil.

They are not reacting to it. They are just ignoring it. No Comment on Forum, no Comment in Stream. There are now more then 4 Patches without any improvement to this major issue.

We really need an big improvement to this issue. With this lag competetive pvp is not possible. Everything has a huge delay or is just not working.

And another Question: Why are there no pvp related DLC? We got Imperial City wich is kinda pvp related. Thats it. Nothing more. Okay Battlegrounds where are most of the gamemodes more pve cause its just running for the objective...

ZOS, pls improve Cyrodiil. Increase the Player Limit, Decrease the lag. Make Cyrodiil great again!

JamieAubrey

No
Yes
Maybe
Who Knows ?

Wreuntzylla

PC was much improved a couple patches ago. Console is still in a hole.

Even though PC received a healthy fix, you still can't play competitively after pop-lock. It's almost as if they raised the pop caps the next patch after the fix. For 1-2 weeks, it was pretty sweet.

Valykc

It’s getting laggy in other zones as well, stormhaven is getting pretty bad in wayrest. I will agree that Cyrodiil has it the worst though. I don’t even PvP anymore because of the lag and load screens. They delay when trying to use skills makes me want to smash my face through my keyboard lol.

bottleofsyrup

For a while they were pretty open about making improvements, made a few, then acted like the lag is gone and don't acknowledge it now when the lag is very much still a problem.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

PC was much improved a couple patches ago. Console is still in a hole.

Even though PC received a healthy fix, you still can't play competitively after pop-lock. It's almost as if they raised the pop caps the next patch after the fix. For 1-2 weeks, it was pretty sweet.

People can still bypass the population caps at the moment. Not going to say how, obviously, but yeah.

Ohtimbar

DoctorESO

.

charley222

no gina for Cyrodiil issue she disappear Oo

Tasear

Yes they love you and read pts notes.

AngelFires333

If they tell every one they can not fix it.
Everyone will stop playing.

Acrolas

You're just not going to have real-time performance with the size of the map and the number of people mashing buttons.

Any time I've been in Cyrodiil in the middle of a big battle, I just take a deep breath and say, yes, this is exactly how fast a server can process and resolve this many simultaneous requests. There's no real way to fix that. There's no cure for people congesting a few map points instead of spreading smaller battles out throughout the map. It's turning PVP into a Black Friday queue where everyone's banging at the doors and claiming to be the first person in line. PVP DLC won't help the problem. If they're not fast, cheap, and easy AP farms, then they're inferior to Cyrodiil.

I don't see ZOS having any chance at appeasing people who choose playstyles that complicate improving performance. So in a way I see PVP as a reflection of the player base and not necessarily ZOS's fault.

Vapirko

Yes we all wonder why the continued silence on Cyro. You’d think they were almost planning on letting it shut down except that they keep making balances based on pvp. What else could it be? That they have absolutely no way of improving it within their means? As in they either don’t know how or can’t handle it logistically or don’t want to monetarily? It’s really odd. They did one so called server test during free AP week and then nothing since then.

gabormezo

I was in Vivec last night. And it turned out fg GREAT! We just have seen it in a wrong way people! They secretly changed Cryo as a turn based strategy, and it works GREAT that way. As intended, there is nothing to see there.

Rohamad_Ali

gabormezo wrote: »

I was in Vivec last night. And it turned out fg GREAT! We just have seen it in a wrong way people! They secretly changed Cryo as a turn based strategy, and it works GREAT that way. As intended, there is nothing to see there.

You high ?

ArchMikem

Gnozo wrote: »

Yo,

i know. Clickbait title but i mean it like i wrote it.

Everyday a new thread is created complaining about the biggest issue in ESO. The horrible lag in Cyrodiil. Everyday. When they do ESO live stream the chat is spammend with questions about the ongoing lag in Cyrodiil.

They are not reacting to it. They are just ignoring it. No Comment on Forum, no Comment in Stream. There are now more then 4 Patches without any improvement to this major issue.

You have no idea what's actually going on in the Office and I can probably assume you have no idea how the game and it's servers actually run. If there's one thing my uneducated mind knows, it's that computer stuff is hard. ZOS doesn't want to make a statement based on hopes and uncertain promises, and they see no reason to just make a thread saying, "We know it's a problem but we don't know how to fix it yet."

coplannb16_ESO

I just wish they would fix their game engine...

The multi-core usage / parallelism is one of the worst of current games. What is even worse is that the game basically freezes for 10-20 secs whenever a core-switch from one ctx to another happens (AMD Ryzen) due to different caches between the ctx'.
Think about beeing in the middle of a boss fight or vMA and the game suddenly deciding to "reboot" by having to reload all stuff into an empty cache on a different core-complex of the CPU. it means 0 FPS during that time so basically you are dead no matter what.

Gnozo

ArchMikem wrote: »

You have no idea what's actually going on in the Office and I can probably assume you have no idea how the game and it's servers actually run. If there's one thing my uneducated mind knows, it's that computer stuff is hard. ZOS doesn't want to make a statement based on hopes and uncertain promises, and they see no reason to just make a thread saying, "We know it's a problem but we don't know how to fix it yet."

Ofc i don´t know whats going on in the office but i know how the server and game runs. It runs very bad. And its possible for a game to run smooth with this big map and this many players. Did you know the game Planetside 2?

A company this big should have the knowledge and possibility to fix this issue. It is possible. This lag is game breaking. Atm there are 2 Options:

1. You accept the lag and join a 20+ ppl zerg where lag doesnt matter cause you only spam 1 button
2. You quit cause solo or smalscale is not possible with this lag.

This game is out for about 4 years and they already reduced the population in Cyro from 600 players per Alliance to 150 and the lag just getting worse.

Trashs1

or u play another campain which isnt allways poplocked and also better in therms of balance

e.g. sotha sil

ArchMikem

Gnozo wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

You have no idea what's actually going on in the Office and I can probably assume you have no idea how the game and it's servers actually run. If there's one thing my uneducated mind knows, it's that computer stuff is hard. ZOS doesn't want to make a statement based on hopes and uncertain promises, and they see no reason to just make a thread saying, "We know it's a problem but we don't know how to fix it yet."

Ofc i don´t know whats going on in the office but i know how the server and game runs. It runs very bad. And its possible for a game to run smooth with this big map and this many players. Did you know the game Planetside 2?

I've got 1,300 hours into Planetside 2. But PS2 and ESO are completely different games made by different studios. And people here have said a ton of the lag has to do with the fact that ESO has a ton of calculations to process at once from all the players casting all sorts of skills and affects and whatnot. Whereas Planetside 2 is fairly simple. You have a limited amount of guns that shoot bullets, which themselves only have four or five-ish different damage models. (guns that do 125dmg, 167dmg, 200dmg etc.)

Leogon

The lag has been so bad lately(PvE and PvP) that sometimes I don't even feel like playing the game anymore. I mean, sure it was laggy before that as well but now it's worse, way worse.

It's definitely not on my end 'cuz I have a high-end PC, everything is up-to-date and working properly, my connection is fine and my other games all work fine, more than fine. It's not the addons either 'cuz I tried disabling them all and the lag was still there.

Anyway, they need to look into this now and not in 2 years but they're probably too busy brainstorming for the next crown crate season or something that involves us giving them money. Btw, correct me if I'm wrong but weren't they supposed to do something about the lag for Clockwork City? Well, they made it worse.

frausty

Gnozo wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

You have no idea what's actually going on in the Office and I can probably assume you have no idea how the game and it's servers actually run. If there's one thing my uneducated mind knows, it's that computer stuff is hard. ZOS doesn't want to make a statement based on hopes and uncertain promises, and they see no reason to just make a thread saying, "We know it's a problem but we don't know how to fix it yet."

Ofc i don´t know whats going on in the office but i know how the server and game runs. It runs very bad. And its possible for a game to run smooth with this big map and this many players. Did you know the game Planetside 2?

A company this big should have the knowledge and possibility to fix this issue. It is possible. This lag is game breaking. Atm there are 2 Options:

1. You accept the lag and join a 20+ ppl zerg where lag doesnt matter cause you only spam 1 button
2. You quit cause solo or smalscale is not possible with this lag.

This game is out for about 4 years and they already reduced the population in Cyro from 600 players per Alliance to 150 and the lag just getting worse.

I can assure you that you have no idea how the server or game runs either if you don't know what's going on in the office. All you know is how the game client runs on your chosen format.

Yes the lag needs to be fixed and the player experience improved but if you seriously think that is not being worked on you are naive. New players read these posts and simply will walk away and not buy DLC or a subsciption. If people don't buy DLC, Crown items or subscriptions then there is no money to fix the issue.

This is a massively complex issue to fix otherwise they would just fix it - do you think any business wants constant negative publicity?

I speak from a position of some experience. I design multi-tenanted cloud systems, running globally and sometimes they run into issues that take a while to fix due to the server infrastructure, the networking, the underlying operating system, database coding, application coding, one person being an idiot and making a change that takes months to reverse engineer etc.

It is 100% correct that we all report the issues as we find them but this must be done in a constructive manner - posts like this will be ignored, (which is exactly what I am wishing I had done - but as I've already started). When you're watching a video on YouTube or Netflix and it buffers, are you instantly on their Forums complaining that Netflix should respond immediately and fix this and they are a disgrace etc or do you think well this could be Netflix or my service provider etc and wait, hoping that your service provider and Netflix are continuously trying to improve their service. I know this is not a 100% accurate analogy as lag in the game is 100% more affecting but hopefully you get my point. In case you don't here it is one more time - No business ignores their underlying issues or that business eventually goes out of business.

coplannb16_ESO

they need to move more calculations back to the client. yes, that opens up vulnerabilities for cheat engines and stuff, therefor in addition they need to improve client-side security and feasability checks on both ends. they could for instance encrypt the whole Client/Server communication as well as the data hold in memory client-side (so cheat tools / debugger cannot read the client memory, e.g. SecureString in .NET there are equivalents in C++). Yes, encryption costs performance too, but #1 not my so much nowadays and #2 divided on client and server side so it isnt bottlenecking so hard on either end...

Its a simple matter of scalability.No matter how big your server farm is, the amount of parallel threads you can run is limited.

Assume you have 128 Cores with hyperthreading, that means 256 Threads in parallel. So basically 128 players versus 128 players could do 1 thing at a time each. Now add in the multitude of calculations that is beeing done per refresh of the game engine: movement, visibility, collision detection, range checks, attacks, skills, gear/CP calculations ... ... ... for every single toon there).
It is a bottleneck, and one that is by design at the moment. There is no way we can ever have 500 vs 500 vs 500 battles with that kind of client-server architecture.

basically I can cryptomine with 5 of my 6 CPU cores while playing ESO cause the client is not utilising my processing power. I have lag regardless.

just think about it. of those 1500 players, everyone has in average maybe 4 cores, soon 6 or 8 will be the norm. In addition, gaming CPUs are usually a lot faster in terms of frequency. That means each core individually is usually stronger than 1 core on the server side. The amount of unutilised processing power is insane. I suppose Zenimax could cut down on their server costs too if they would finally change this.

By the way for security matters, one could also create an additional layer of validation in memory of the byzantine general problem. Basically if one player is all alone and cheats (teleporting or whatever) no one is hurt, the issue arises when other players are negatively impacted by this. But, assume you have a normal small or medium scaled encounter (say 4-20 players are involved). One of them cheats in some way. that means there are 3 to 19 witnesses which could have feasibility checks on their side and automatically tell the server: uh dear server, we believe this player there is behaving irregular and does impossible things: auto-vote -> ban.
Something similar could be used to get rid of the bot trains...

bottom line is, for every problem (especially in the IT) there are a multitude of approaches to deal with it. It is the responsibility of a good developer (better even an experienced software-architect) to evaluate, inspect and adapt in regard to the requirements and needs of the customer.

Get better people if necessary and fix this mess Zeni!

AnviOfVai

I was in Vivic PS4 EU last night night and I crashed, I got stuck running through the grassy texture that had not loaded, and then the dreaded loaded screen popped up and, I left it there for 15 minutes and It still did not come back, I gave up and logged out. PVP is started to get more button mash than ever now, because everyone can't see what the hell is going on, where the oil is landing ect, you can't even see the heal circles as the animations don't show up in a laggy area is horrible haha!

Zbigb4life

They are ignoring it for almost 3 years now. My only conclusion is they simply don't care or aren't skilled enough to fix it!

Sigma957

You will never improve lag unless everyone has 10000000000 gb/sec connections and the sever can handle a billion players at once. I play with lag constantly because of my location so when some people b**** about having to play eso with 200 ping I just laugh because I am lucky to play at 290 ping whether it's pvp in Vivec or pve.

Tasear

There's some changes on pts patch notes rolling out to fix this.

Carbonised

Playing in lag is one thing, getting constant disconnects to login screen every 4 minutes is another, completely unsacceptable thing.

PC EU is terrible performance, even in non-CP with everything turned off.

Lower the population limits of 30 days campaigns to half of current, and open up 1 more CP and 1 more non-CP 30 days.

Narvuntien

They will ignore you if you don't treat them with respect they deserve as human beings doing their difficult job.

Biro123

I'm honestly at the point of unsubbing because of this.

In my mind its easy to fix.. Either buy better servers, or lower the pop caps and open up a new server.

Palidon

Sure they have not listened or they know It cannot be fixed and do not want to tell players that. What I do not understand is game performance in Cyrodiil is bad especially during prime time. With the new DLC next month and the removal of AoE caps, Cyrodiil will be completely unplayable. Were is the reasoning behind that move.

coplannb16_ESO

Palidon wrote: »

Sure they have not listened or they know It cannot be fixed and do not want to tell players that. What I do not understand is game performance in Cyrodiil is bad especially during prime time. With the new DLC next month and the removal of AoE caps, Cyrodiil will be completely unplayable. Were is the reasoning behind that move.

eventually the removal of aoe caps could improve the performance because determining which targets in given area should be effected by an aoe can be considerable slower than just having it affect everyone in an area due to complexity of the algorithm. Of course both algorithms can be implemented in more or less efficient manners...