Idea: Training dungeon for ALL roles

Aurielle

As we all know, using the dungeon finder is often a frustrating experience. If you're on your tank or healer, you often find yourself grouped with "damage" dealers who spam light/heavy attacks or (my all-time favourite!) Snipe. When you're on your damage dealers, you often find yourself grouped with bad tanks who don't taunt, or bad healers who don't heal (or frantically spam BoL until they're out of magicka). While there is simply no helping some people, and while some people obviously queue for roles they have no intention of completing, it has often been argued that the game does not do an adequate job of preparing players for dungeon content. I agree with that argument.

What if we had a scalable training dungeon (normal and vet mode) that all players need to complete at least once before being able to queue for a particular role or dungeon difficulty? Said training dungeon would pair you up with three NPC allies, would be capped at a 5-10 minute completion time (depending on difficulty), and would mimick the first part of a standard dungeon run (i.e. a few trash mob pulls, followed by a boss with standard mechanics -- AOE attacks, knock-back/stun attacks, healing adds, etc.).

After the training dungeon is complete, you would get an in-depth recap with a score that would provide you with the sort of details you might see on a combat analysis add-on, relevant to your role (e.g. total DPS, total HPS, number of allies defeated, number of personal deaths, boss taunt up-time, buff/de-buff up-time, etc.) The recap screen would also provide hints (which could be disabled through the UI, if you're an established player) to improve your performance. Something like "use a light attack before activating a skill to increase your damage" or "hold block when your target prepares to unleash a heavy attack, as indicated by white lines radiating from the target" or "use area-of-effect skills to take out large groups of enemies faster" or whatever.

Successful completion of the training dungeon could be dependent upon the following role-dependent parameters:

Damage Dealers

- Use of AT LEAST three or more skills (light-attacking/heavy-attacking/single skill spam disqualifies you)
- Dealing enough damage to kill the boss before the 5-10 minute timer is up

Tanks

- Taunting the boss AT LEAST once (with a better score granted for 100% taunt up-time)

Healers

- Keeping all NPC allies alive (maximum of 1-2 deaths permitted)

Please note that I am NOT suggesting a specific DPS minimum in the completion parameters, as I realize that new players should not be expected to crack a DPS minimum before they can run a dungeon. Also, the dungeon completion timer would be a very soft DPS check. The most important thing, in my mind, is to encourage new damage dealers to combine skills, rather than spam light/heavy attacks. The number of new dungeon runners who think ESO is Skyrim is simply unreal.

Also, such a system could obviously also be used by established players to improve their rotations and overall performance, or to test out new builds. Think of it as a very sophisticated target dummy. Healers have also been requesting HPS dummies for some time now, and have been shut down by those of us who (rightly) point out that there's much more to healing than HPS. This training mode would let a healer know, for instance, how often they have their SPC buff up; it would also let them know how much additional damage they can provide to help out the team in addition to their HPS.

Thoughts? I know there have been similar suggestions in the past, but I figured I'd put this out there -- especially given all the requests lately for healing target dummies, and my ongoing frustration with people who don't know how to deal damage.

teladoy

I want to believe that the humans that play this game have the minimum level of intelligence and learning capacity to understand to play rightly after a few try's. Otherwise we are destinated to extinction without doubt.

Tasear

Level and skill advisor is supposed to alleviate this issue. It will be coming next patch.

tinythinker

Aurielle wrote: »

As we all know, using the dungeon finder is often a frustrating experience. If you're on your tank or healer, you often find yourself grouped with "damage" dealers who spam light/heavy attacks or (my all-time favourite!) Snipe. When you're on your damage dealers, you often find yourself grouped with bad tanks who don't taunt, or bad healers who don't heal (or frantically spam BoL until they're out of magicka). While there is simply no helping some people, and while some people obviously queue for roles they have no intention of completing, it has often been argued that the game does not do an adequate job of preparing players for dungeon content. I agree with that argument.

What if we had a scalable training dungeon (normal and vet mode) that all players need to complete at least once before being able to queue for a particular role or dungeon difficulty? Said training dungeon would pair you up with three NPC allies, would be capped at a 5-10 minute completion time (depending on difficulty), and would mimick the first part of a standard dungeon run (i.e. a few trash mob pulls, followed by a boss with standard mechanics -- AOE attacks, knock-back/stun attacks, healing adds, etc.).

After the training dungeon is complete, you would get an in-depth recap with a score that would provide you with the sort of details you might see on a combat analysis add-on, relevant to your role (e.g. total DPS, total HPS, number of allies defeated, number of personal deaths, boss taunt up-time, buff/de-buff up-time, etc.) The recap screen would also provide hints (which could be disabled through the UI, if you're an established player) to improve your performance. Something like "use a light attack before activating a skill to increase your damage" or "hold block when your target prepares to unleash a heavy attack, as indicated by white lines radiating from the target" or "use area-of-effect skills to take out large groups of enemies faster" or whatever.

Successful completion of the training dungeon could be dependent upon the following role-dependent parameters:

Damage Dealers

- Use of AT LEAST three or more skills (light-attacking/heavy-attacking/single skill spam disqualifies you)
- Dealing enough damage to kill the boss before the 5-10 minute timer is up

Tanks

- Taunting the boss AT LEAST once (with a better score granted for 100% taunt up-time)

Healers

- Keeping all NPC allies alive (maximum of 1-2 deaths permitted)

Please not that I am NOT suggesting a specific DPS minimum in the completion parameters, as I realize that new players should not be expected to crack a DPS minimum before they can run a dungeon. Also, the dungeon completion timer would be a very soft DPS check. The most important thing, in my mind, is to encourage new damage dealers to combine skills, rather than spam light/heavy attacks. The number of new dungeon runners who think ESO is Skyrim is simply unreal.

Also, such a system could obviously also be used by established players to improve their rotations and overall performance, or to test out new builds. Think of it as a very sophisticated target dummy. Healers have also been requesting HPS dummies for some time now, and have been shut down by those of us who (rightly) point out that there's much more to healing than HPS. This training mode would let a healer know, for instance, how often they have their SPC buff up; it would also let them know how much additional damage they can provide to help out the team in addition to their HPS.

Thoughts? I know there have been similar suggestions in the past, but I figured I'd put this out there -- especially given all the requests lately for healing target dummies, and my ongoing frustration with people who don't know how to deal damage.

Yup. I support this kind of thing.

tinythinker

Tasear wrote: »

Level and skill advisor is supposed to alleviate this issue. It will be coming next patch.

But at low level these things don't do much, certainly nothing for dungeons. No practice healing or taunting, knowing when to use AoE damage ability, etc.

Aurielle

tinythinker wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

As we all know, using the dungeon finder is often a frustrating experience. If you're on your tank or healer, you often find yourself grouped with "damage" dealers who spam light/heavy attacks or (my all-time favourite!) Snipe. When you're on your damage dealers, you often find yourself grouped with bad tanks who don't taunt, or bad healers who don't heal (or frantically spam BoL until they're out of magicka). While there is simply no helping some people, and while some people obviously queue for roles they have no intention of completing, it has often been argued that the game does not do an adequate job of preparing players for dungeon content. I agree with that argument.

What if we had a scalable training dungeon (normal and vet mode) that all players need to complete at least once before being able to queue for a particular role or dungeon difficulty? Said training dungeon would pair you up with three NPC allies, would be capped at a 5-10 minute completion time (depending on difficulty), and would mimick the first part of a standard dungeon run (i.e. a few trash mob pulls, followed by a boss with standard mechanics -- AOE attacks, knock-back/stun attacks, healing adds, etc.).

After the training dungeon is complete, you would get an in-depth recap with a score that would provide you with the sort of details you might see on a combat analysis add-on, relevant to your role (e.g. total DPS, total HPS, number of allies defeated, number of personal deaths, boss taunt up-time, buff/de-buff up-time, etc.) The recap screen would also provide hints (which could be disabled through the UI, if you're an established player) to improve your performance. Something like "use a light attack before activating a skill to increase your damage" or "hold block when your target prepares to unleash a heavy attack, as indicated by white lines radiating from the target" or "use area-of-effect skills to take out large groups of enemies faster" or whatever.

Successful completion of the training dungeon could be dependent upon the following role-dependent parameters:

Damage Dealers

- Use of AT LEAST three or more skills (light-attacking/heavy-attacking/single skill spam disqualifies you)
- Dealing enough damage to kill the boss before the 5-10 minute timer is up

Tanks

- Taunting the boss AT LEAST once (with a better score granted for 100% taunt up-time)

Healers

- Keeping all NPC allies alive (maximum of 1-2 deaths permitted)

Please not that I am NOT suggesting a specific DPS minimum in the completion parameters, as I realize that new players should not be expected to crack a DPS minimum before they can run a dungeon. Also, the dungeon completion timer would be a very soft DPS check. The most important thing, in my mind, is to encourage new damage dealers to combine skills, rather than spam light/heavy attacks. The number of new dungeon runners who think ESO is Skyrim is simply unreal.

Also, such a system could obviously also be used by established players to improve their rotations and overall performance, or to test out new builds. Think of it as a very sophisticated target dummy. Healers have also been requesting HPS dummies for some time now, and have been shut down by those of us who (rightly) point out that there's much more to healing than HPS. This training mode would let a healer know, for instance, how often they have their SPC buff up; it would also let them know how much additional damage they can provide to help out the team in addition to their HPS.

Thoughts? I know there have been similar suggestions in the past, but I figured I'd put this out there -- especially given all the requests lately for healing target dummies, and my ongoing frustration with people who don't know how to deal damage.

Yup. I support this kind of thing.

That's a really neat idea, and I especially like the idea of having your NPC allies be members of the Undaunted -- gives it a lore-based bit of backstory.

teladoy wrote: »

I want to believe that the humans that play this game have the minimum level of intelligence and learning capacity to understand to play rightly after a few try's. Otherwise we are destinated to extinction without doubt.

You don't play a healer or a tank, do you? I can't even begin to tell you the number of frustrating random normals I've run for the daily XP bonus as a healer in this game. Also, I can tell you right now that if I'd never visited these forums or looked at build sites, I'd probably still be dishing out 9k DPS maximum on my DDs. Not everyone visits the forums or knows where to find effective build/rotation ideas. A system like this would at least get them started and introduce them to the idea that you can't deal damage effectively if you play ESO like it's a standard single player Elder Scrolls game.

Motherball

Would be nice for higher levels of play where the stakes are higher. Low level dungeons on normal dont really need this mechanic imo. If players are interested in improving or cared enough not to inconvenience others through ignorance they would take that initiative. On the flipside, I think having most of that stuff not matter is part of the appeal of normal mode.

idk

We already have training dungeons. It is the normal dungeons.

As for having an arbitrary goal someone has to do the question is who sets that goal? The ones listed I expect are not really intended.

What I think you should be able to do and what you think you should be able to do is probably not the same. Should we have a boss fight in this dungeon without adds and require dps to pull a low 30k minimum dps to be able to dps in the other dungeons. Maybe 20k for normal and 30k for vet level.

As for healer, in most dungeons if someone dies it is more likely than not their fault. Most of the time I heal I also deal dps because there is not much healing unless the group is less skilled. Even then some die, they stand in stupid, miss a mechanic or something like that.

Not going to even get into the tank role. So many dungeons really do not require a tank.

So in the end, it is not happening. No one will be able to agree on what should be required nor how to go about it.

If you do not like the groups you get in GF just form your own group. If you are in a decent guild it is pretty simple. Heck, form it from zone if the guild route is to much trouble.

phaneub17_ESO

What if as the Tank can just outaggro everyone else by doing more damage and healing?

idk

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

What if as the Tank can just outaggro everyone else by doing more damage and healing?

ESO does not truly have this kind of agro mechanic. Yes, to a low degree but taunt is the only real way to ensure having agro and it works well with this game design.

Runefang

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

What if as the Tank can just outaggro everyone else by doing more damage and healing?

Only applies when you're trashing a normal dungeon in an end-game toon. No vet-dlc ready tank can do that.

Aurielle

idk wrote: »

We already have training dungeons. It is the normal dungeons.

Yes, and new players often have NO IDEA what they're doing in these dungeons, or how to fulfill the role they signed up for. A pre-requisite training mode dungeon would teach them the basics, an absolute bare minimum from which they can grow. Some damage dealers literally think that damage dealing means light bow attacking until they've charged up their bow ultimate.

What I think you should be able to do and what you think you should be able to do is probably not the same. Should we have a boss fight in this dungeon without adds and require dps to pull a low 30k minimum dps to be able to dps in the other dungeons. Maybe 20k for normal and 30k for vet level.

As I mentioned in my OP, I wouldn't want to see a hard DPS gate. It's too restrictive. The soft gate of a timer gives more than enough leeway for someone to do mediocre DPS, but not horrendous DPS. Light attacking one's way through the training session would not be enough.

As for healer, in most dungeons if someone dies it is more likely than not their fault. Most of the time I heal I also deal dps because there is not much healing unless the group is less skilled. Even then some die, they stand in stupid, miss a mechanic or something like that.

For the purposes of a training mode dungeon, we can assume that NPC allies know not to stand in stupid. The healer's role in the training dungeon -- as in any dungeon -- would be to ensure that, at a bare minimum, they're throwing down enough HoTs to keep their allies alive. More experienced healers could focus more so on keeping their buffs/debuffs up (which would be indicated at the end in the recap), while seeing what kind of DPS and HPS they can pull.

Not going to even get into the tank role. So many dungeons really do not require a tank.

Yeah, but if you're going to queue as a tank, you should at LEAST be able to aggro the boss and stay alive in case you're playing with squishy DPS and a mediocre healer, right? Again, we're looking at BARE MINIMUMS here. There are people who queue as a tank who have no idea what a taunt is, much less when they need to use it.

So in the end, it is not happening. No one will be able to agree on what should be required nor how to go about it.

If you do not like the groups you get in GF just form your own group. If you are in a decent guild it is pretty simple. Heck, form it from zone if the guild route is to much trouble.

That's fair enough, but I personally live in an odd time zone. I also do shift work, so it's not always possible to group with guild mates. I'd rather try to suggest something proactive that will actually help players get better at their roles, than abandon the dungeon finder entirely.

DoctorESO

.

Morgul667

Always been in favor of such training request that are or would be pre-requisite to do dungeons in the related roles (at least one per account like for cyrodill)

The gap between new players and experienced players is very high and new players have no clue why unless they spend time searching the web (which is not that common for a game you want to play casually)

firedrgn

It would be nice if the tutorial gave some information about mechanics in dungeons. Thos that dont want can turn off. Might work

HarlotsLoki

Id rather just see ZoS add voice chat to instanced areas. Easier to coordinate, easier to fix issues that occur in pugs.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

actually this might be good...not gona happen...takes time and resources that will not bring money so...you know...companies.

AcadianPaladin

@Aurielle I like that you deftly covered the problem, then detailed a solid idea to improve things. Very well thought out in fact. Sure some things might get tinkered with around the edges but you certainly proposed something I would love to see. I also like your idea of tying it to the Undaunted guild - as part of their initiation/training.

As a healer, I agree that HPS on a 'healing dummy' is . . . not beneficial. It is the ability to react at the right time with the right skills and adapt to your group that counts for a healer. This idea takes a very good step in that direction.

I do think that number of deaths could be a valid metric for this. I assume the healer's NPC team would include a tank and 2 dps that know their job so the healer could see how powerful/beneficial those roles are when reasonably played. If my tank and dps teammates are reasonably skilled (tank taunts the boss and holds in position, dps strive to avoid red and employ AoE/DoTs, etc), I'm perfectly fine with being held to the standard of keeping them alive and providing them some resource help. In fact, resources provided (via EleDrain, Shards, Orbs, etc) could be another useful metric for healers.

I like it!

ForsakenSin

here is a idea...

how about people stop kicking a low CP player right away ?

I hate it when i do a random pug that can be 2 man or 3 man and some person who is cp 550 thinks he is elite and starts complaining about cp 130 and try to kick him RIGHT AWAY !

in this case because i didn't want to kick him the tank cp 550 left so it was me dps cp 780, healer cp 400 and dps cp 130, The cp 130 was thankful for not kicking him and he told me how he was kicked 6 times from group today and guess what ? we 3 man on hard mode no problem i just had to explain the mechanics ect and after that i gave him few ideas and the guy was happy and the 3 of us ended up doing the next daily on vet as well and finished it on hardmode.

So that guy who was cp 550 could of stayed with us instead assumed the cp 130 had low dps made the guy fell bad and tired to kick him and then had a tantrum and left.

YEs yes yes i know what you will say the cp 130 could find the guild to run with it so he will not be kicked but how about we all remember we were pugs we were cp 60 hell remember the days when we were vet 14 and grinding farming learning to get to vet 16 lol so people should have a bit compassion and patience instead of making new players fell like crap and they quit the game.

Its the new blood that will keep this game alive not us the veterans who were here from the beginning.

The way i fell "its the strong responsibility to protect the weak, show them teach them help them "

SO try to talk to them, to tech them not putting them down or calling them names when they make mistake or kicking them right away..

however If they are *** well then.. kick them out!.

anyway sorry for the rant from a old cranky veteran lol

VaranisArano

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

What if as the Tank can just outaggro everyone else by doing more damage and healing?

I've seen that happen exactly once and I've run a lot of dungeons. There was one player who tanked by sheer incredible DPS. Not only did he have the DPS to hold the boss, he had the DPS to burn the boss before the boss even tried to focus on anyone else. That's what happens when you bring a trials level DPS to an easy normal dungeon.

Everyone else I've seen who tries to "fake tank" their way to victory always loses that soft taunt at some point and then the boss is in the face of my healer or a DPS. Unfortunately, I main a tank, and I'm not shy about calling them out on their failure as an actual tank.

If you want to actually tank successfully, slot a taunt or you'd better have amazing DPS.

Morgul667

ForsakenSin wrote: »

here is a idea...

how about people stop kicking a low CP player right away ?

anyway sorry for the rant from a old cranky veteran lol

I think the point is how to make a system that helps them on top of other players.

Give them something so they know what is expected from them (at least the very basics) and they don't need to take a stranger word for granted

LadyLethalla

Tasear wrote: »

Level and skill advisor is supposed to alleviate this issue. It will be coming next patch.

And it'll do nothing for people who are playing max level characters and who were never taught to play properly.

I've healed fair few dungeons recently, since I need Transmute stones. New to healing, since up to this point I just did DPS.
The number of players who don't know mechanics of a specific dungeon... well, I'm fine with that, since I only relatively recently found out about that first boss (the wraith) in Vaults of Madness and not to attack him when he's beaming.
But the number of players who do nothing but spam LA with a bow or Impulse with a staff... astounding.


@Aurielle's suggestion is great and I hope ZoS not only read it but implement something like that, in addition to putting some kind of mechanic in that stops people queueing for fake roles if they don't have the equipment and skills to run said roles. So, S&B and taunt, Resto and whatever heals.

idk

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

We already have training dungeons. It is the normal dungeons.

Yes, and new players often have NO IDEA what they're doing in these dungeons, or how to fulfill the role they signed up for. A pre-requisite training mode dungeon would teach them the basics, an absolute bare minimum from which they can grow. Some damage dealers literally think that damage dealing means light bow attacking until they've charged up their bow ultimate.

What I think you should be able to do and what you think you should be able to do is probably not the same. Should we have a boss fight in this dungeon without adds and require dps to pull a low 30k minimum dps to be able to dps in the other dungeons. Maybe 20k for normal and 30k for vet level.

As I mentioned in my OP, I wouldn't want to see a hard DPS gate. It's too restrictive. The soft gate of a timer gives more than enough leeway for someone to do mediocre DPS, but not horrendous DPS. Light attacking one's way through the training session would not be enough.

As for healer, in most dungeons if someone dies it is more likely than not their fault. Most of the time I heal I also deal dps because there is not much healing unless the group is less skilled. Even then some die, they stand in stupid, miss a mechanic or something like that.

For the purposes of a training mode dungeon, we can assume that NPC allies know not to stand in stupid. The healer's role in the training dungeon -- as in any dungeon -- would be to ensure that, at a bare minimum, they're throwing down enough HoTs to keep their allies alive. More experienced healers could focus more so on keeping their buffs/debuffs up (which would be indicated at the end in the recap), while seeing what kind of DPS and HPS they can pull.

Not going to even get into the tank role. So many dungeons really do not require a tank.

Yeah, but if you're going to queue as a tank, you should at LEAST be able to aggro the boss and stay alive in case you're playing with squishy DPS and a mediocre healer, right? Again, we're looking at BARE MINIMUMS here. There are people who queue as a tank who have no idea what a taunt is, much less when they need to use it.

So in the end, it is not happening. No one will be able to agree on what should be required nor how to go about it.

If you do not like the groups you get in GF just form your own group. If you are in a decent guild it is pretty simple. Heck, form it from zone if the guild route is to much trouble.

That's fair enough, but I personally live in an odd time zone. I also do shift work, so it's not always possible to group with guild mates. I'd rather try to suggest something proactive that will actually help players get better at their roles, than abandon the dungeon finder entirely.

I must thank you for proving my point in a very clear manner. That getting agreement is very unlikely. Heck, the lack of interest in this thread says enough about agreement with this idea.

However, one of your points made here is counter to what you stated in your OP. You provided an example of a firm DPS gate in your OP but not state you would not want such a thing which is very counter to a dps proving anything.

I would suggest you find a guild that has people playing during the time you play. Clearly you find players playing at the same time and I bet some of them are in guilds. There are guilds that have people from different time zone. Find one. Life will be much better.

zaria

idk wrote: »

We already have training dungeons. It is the normal dungeons.

As for having an arbitrary goal someone has to do the question is who sets that goal? The ones listed I expect are not really intended.

What I think you should be able to do and what you think you should be able to do is probably not the same. Should we have a boss fight in this dungeon without adds and require dps to pull a low 30k minimum dps to be able to dps in the other dungeons. Maybe 20k for normal and 30k for vet level.

As for healer, in most dungeons if someone dies it is more likely than not their fault. Most of the time I heal I also deal dps because there is not much healing unless the group is less skilled. Even then some die, they stand in stupid, miss a mechanic or something like that.

Not going to even get into the tank role. So many dungeons really do not require a tank.

So in the end, it is not happening. No one will be able to agree on what should be required nor how to go about it.

If you do not like the groups you get in GF just form your own group. If you are in a decent guild it is pretty simple. Heck, form it from zone if the guild route is to much trouble.

Normal dungeons works for this however its has some downsides, first you tend to get enough good players in them who has no issue carrying and carrying is simpler than trying to teach an rotation, you teach dungeon mechanics after wipe on mechanical bosses like second in Fungal 2 or the cabbage fight in ICP, however with high dps lots of mechanic can be ignored.
Now as mostly healer this would be nice to test stuff, currently you end up either heal for your life or being the dps who keeps ele drain and combat prayer up.

As for dps levels 30K tend to be vet trial requirements, 20K is more than enough for vet dlc.

Nemesis7884

I think what you could do is

a) don't place low lvl characters in dlc dungeons for dailies...dlc dungeons should be lvl 50+

b) maybe give a difficulty rating on dungeons compared to other dungeons so people can learn with an easier one?

VaranisArano

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

I think what you could do is

a) don't place low lvl characters in dlc dungeons for dailies...dlc dungeons should be lvl 50+

b) maybe give a difficulty rating on dungeons compared to other dungeons so people can learn with an easier one?

DLC dungeons currently unlock at level 45. The normal dungeons unlock progressively according to diffculty.

Nemesis7884

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

I think what you could do is

a) don't place low lvl characters in dlc dungeons for dailies...dlc dungeons should be lvl 50+

b) maybe give a difficulty rating on dungeons compared to other dungeons so people can learn with an easier one?

DLC dungeons currently unlock at level 45. The normal dungeons unlock progressively according to diffculty.

Sorry but that can't be right for doing random dungeons unless it was changed recently? When i was doing HOTR dungeons i had lvl 30 players all the time in my groups??

zaria

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

I think what you could do is

a) don't place low lvl characters in dlc dungeons for dailies...dlc dungeons should be lvl 50+

b) maybe give a difficulty rating on dungeons compared to other dungeons so people can learn with an easier one?

DLC dungeons currently unlock at level 45. The normal dungeons unlock progressively according to diffculty.

Sorry but that can't be right for doing random dungeons unless it was changed recently? When i was doing HOTR dungeons i had lvl 30 players all the time in my groups??

It changed with CWC level 45 or higher for normal dlc dungeons.

Zer0oo

No heavy attack spam? But but this is pve endgame..

Nemesis7884

zaria wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

I think what you could do is

a) don't place low lvl characters in dlc dungeons for dailies...dlc dungeons should be lvl 50+

b) maybe give a difficulty rating on dungeons compared to other dungeons so people can learn with an easier one?

DLC dungeons currently unlock at level 45. The normal dungeons unlock progressively according to diffculty.

Sorry but that can't be right for doing random dungeons unless it was changed recently? When i was doing HOTR dungeons i had lvl 30 players all the time in my groups??

It changed with CWC level 45 or higher for normal dlc dungeons.

oooh nice i didnt know that

LordSemaj

Here's a question... what happens when after beating your Dungeon Trial those same people go back to doing whatever they want?

It amazes me that people think all those "awful" PUG players are just bad at games. If they wanted to be serious about it, they'd queue with guildmates and come prepared with knowledge of the boss mechanics. Many of them are doing what they're doing because they don't want to be serious about it. The guy spamming Snipe? I'm sure he's been told a thousand times how bad it is at DPS. He's probably doing it out of laziness because he doesn't want to dodge roll spam like it's a veteran trial. He's using a bow for god's sake, clearly he's not getting anywhere near the death makers.

Those guys spamming light attacks are playing the game the way they like it and using their powers to stay alive or do the occasional big CC hit. Because that's basically what you do in Skyrim or any other Elder Scrolls game. It's a natural thing for them to come over and immediately play that way. Could they do better by skill spamming? Probably. But that means running out of juice and having to do heavy attack rotations which they can't be bothered to do. They just want to light attack spam while using their energy for buffs and heals.

I don't think forcing them through a meat grinder will make them stop being lazy after it's over. Instead, perhaps ZOS should throw out some more sets that encourage their playstyle, obviously with less dps, and more easily accessible. Then they could pick up the Armor of the Lazy *** that buffs Light Attacks by 50% and reduces the cost of self-buffs and it wouldn't be completely terrible to be grouped with them.

You can't force other players to play the way you find to be optimal. They're always going to play the way they want to especially when it's the bloody slogan ZOS was pushing for ESO. All we can really do is help them out along the way, make overpowered characters that can pick up the slack, groan less when it takes longer to clear a dungeon, and pray ZOS gives them a set that suits their playstyle that isn't completely awful. Dungeons are content and there's truly no rush to clear them unless you're farming and for that you should get a farming group. Instant gratification pushes people to want clears and completions and immediate full sets of the gear and traits they want but the game can just as easily be played casually. Expect that every time you queue other people won't necessarily play the way you want to play. Even if we solved this problem, people would just move on to complaining about some other stereotype.