Kinda Sad

Tasear

I would walk away from forum you seem depressed so aren't seeing reason.

P.S it would be nice if was easier to register or sign up for forums. It's too poor of design or a left over from the beta so we are left with well...poor balance in players on the forum.

Chadak

Tasear wrote: »

I would walk away from forum you seem depressed so aren't seeing reason.

P.S it would be nice if was easier to register or sign up for forums. It's too poor of design or a left over from the beta so we are left with well...poor balance in players on the forum.

It IS kind've depressing! Hence the name of the thread! 'Kinda Sad' is precisely how I feel about this.

New stuff coming in ESO? Sure would be cool to feel excited about it, but this mountain of evidence suggesting that I should keep my expectations low and not set myself up for feeling disappointed is insurmountable.

I'm clearly not the only one worried about that either.

Alcast

Chadak wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

All I'm saying is that I'm finding it impossible to get on the hype train. I fully expect it'll wind up disappointing and probably wind up just another herd-us-to-dat-cash-store device when it could have been genuinely fun and interesting.

I don't know that it will be, but how many hype trains does one need to ride before one realizes that hype trains are catastrophic things to get on in the first place?

What did you expect? I mean you get:

1. You have one slot PER CHARACATER. Means you can basically create up to 15 costumes without paying real money.
2. You can partially change or fully change your gears appearance if you want, leaving you with every possible costumization option.

I expect game developers to make game systems because they believe those systems will be the most fun for their players.

They haven't been allowed to do that in the gaming industry in a very long time, and that makes me somewhat sad.

But what do you not like about the system? I do think the system is a lot of fun and fair. (that is just my opinion tho)

Chadak

Alcast wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

All I'm saying is that I'm finding it impossible to get on the hype train. I fully expect it'll wind up disappointing and probably wind up just another herd-us-to-dat-cash-store device when it could have been genuinely fun and interesting.

I don't know that it will be, but how many hype trains does one need to ride before one realizes that hype trains are catastrophic things to get on in the first place?

What did you expect? I mean you get:

1. You have one slot PER CHARACATER. Means you can basically create up to 15 costumes without paying real money.
2. You can partially change or fully change your gears appearance if you want, leaving you with every possible costumization option.

I expect game developers to make game systems because they believe those systems will be the most fun for their players.

They haven't been allowed to do that in the gaming industry in a very long time, and that makes me somewhat sad.

But what do you not like about the system? I do think the system is a lot of fun and fair. (that is just my opinion tho)

Its all the opportunities for it to be killed with microtransactions that's got me leery.

Don't get me wrong though; I'm not opposed to a business making money. I'm concerned that the marketing twonks will be overly greedy and inexorably trash a system that could've been great by making it too expensive in too many ways, or too much of a burdensome nuisance to enjoy.

In my mind, a good costume system is something that encourages people to play with it by its own design. Kind've like how a slide encourages people to slide by dint of its design, a good costume system should be something people can dig into up to the elbows, have a blast with and not feel is hostile to their enjoyment.

I have no faith at this time that ZOS will implement it in a fashion that isn't hostile to enjoyment. They'll give us a taste with one free slot, see how popular it winds up being and figure out enhanced monetization vectors for the future.

I mean, look at what how they implemented housing. You could spend $500 or more on a single house and decorations for it, if you wanted to buy them out of the cash shop...and if you don't open up your wallet and swipe dat credit card?

You get stuck dealing with a crafting system implementation for placeables that got treated as a slipshod afterthought of a material sink. The recipes for placeables are ridiculous and nonsensical.

We might well have needed a black hole throw materials into, but they ruined placeable crafting as something I, personally, will ever or can ever enjoy on here.

Why? Because I need 10 pieces of Nickel to craft a fetching cured meat shank. The problem isn't that nickel is expensive or hard to come by, but that the entire process then becomes a blatant statement on their part of 'we needed a material sink and you want a thing. PROBLEM SOLVED!'

No, the problem isn't solved. No more than if I said 'There haven't been enough house fires in my area this year' and 'I need something to do with my kids this Saturday': PROBLEM NOT SOLVED.

ZOS took a concept that could've been really cool; player housing; and made it into a system I feel to be a tragic joke.

Why do I feel that way? Not because its too simple, though I feel it is that. I can understand why they went with KISS rather than a robust, in depth system with a steeper learning curve. Learning curve = death for most people.

What grinds my gears is like I said above: how they went hog wild on monetizing it beyond the pale. Sure, you can buy all the houses with in game gold and craft or buy with gold a lot of the stuff you'll ever want, and that'd be great if they'd actually put anything resembling half a moment's worth of concern into how they implemented so doing.

But no. You'll either cough up cash to get whatever it is you want now, or you'll play into an addition to the crafting system that could only look good, even on paper, if the objective were to create a massive material sink and had 'I guess we better make placeables craftable too or we'll get crucified' tacked onto it fifteen minutes before it went live.

I don't expect the big new things to be better managed and directed than the other big thing. After all, gear appearances, like housing, are purely vanity. I bet the suits up at ZOS HQ have eaten a years supply of viagra in anticipation of how hard they're going to pound the playerbase, because there's nothing in their way with vanity items like there is with anything that could be considered 'pay to win'.

There are no limits to the extent that their greed can be let off the chain, to explore like the happiest puppy in a world in which consequences have never existed, in finding whatever they decide they're happy with insofar as 'Whatever The Market Will Bear' is and means.

From a purely capitalistic point of view, there's no reason for them not to charge 2500 Crowns per costume slot and sell tokens in the store for 500 Coins to bypass the gold cost to change a single item's appearance. In the future, I fully anticipate that we'll see unique appearance items being sold in the store for at least as much as costumes are being sold for now, and I fully anticipate that if/when the system gets expanded upon in the future, it will be in other as-yet-unguessed-at monetized directions.

Why wouldn't they, when whether or not we fools playing the game enjoy the system is almost entirely irrelevant when creating yet more systems generating annoyance and jealousy and selling us the cure for those new itches are so much more bankable approaches to take?

I'd really like a nice appearance customization system.

What we're going to get is not going to be that. Not unless your standards for determining a thing to be 'nice' or not are profoundly lower than mine, anyway.

DieAlteHexe

Chadak wrote: »

... Not unless your standards for determining a thing to be 'nice' or not are profoundly lower than mine, anyway.

The way I judge these things is simple. Am I having fun? Yes? Then continue on and participate in the evolution of the game. If not, adios. I generally will keep an eye for news of MMOs that I bail on though because things can and do change.

Once I started taking the long view, I found myself more content. If that equates to lower standards? Well, so be it. I'm having fun which is the entire point of the exercise. Sorry that you're not.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed some posts that were combative and disruptive to the discussion. Please remember it is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

Ydrisselle

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

This costume system has exceeded every expectation I ever had for it. I have no idea why you are here crying. It is the most superior system in any MMO on the market to date. Why are you complaining?

You've played very few MMO's and explored the basis for your statement...I'm gonna go with 'not at all'.

Bye.

Been playing MMO's since UO, Played: CoH's, DAoC, Wow, RIFT, Neverwinter, Champions Online, DCUO, Archage, SWTOR, SW:G, Star Trek, BD:O and FXlV.

This system rivals all the costume systems ive seen with the exception of CoH's because that costume system had millions of combinations and you could have 10 costumes per character.

When did you finish Rift? Because I still think their Wardrobe is way better than what ZOS showed us yesterday.

Apache_Kid

Why are people even remotely surprised about how this work? The cost of gold for all of this seems reasonable and every single piece of new content that this game releases is made with the number one goal of increasing crown-store revenue. Anything else is a secondary objective. I actually figured the gold cost would be a lot more than we are being led to believe it is so overall it exceeded my expectations. That all being said, it would be a better system if we were actually changing the exact look of an item instead of putting like a disguise over it but in the long-run it doesn't really matter.

kojou

I will make a more informed judgement when I see PTS, but from what I could tell the costume system didn't look bad. You can use any motif you know to change any aspect of your characters outfit, and you get one outfit per character for free. It looks like it will let me do anything I ever wanted. Other MMO's may have better costume systems, but they are not ESO, and I am here because I like ESO.

I'm a bit more disappointed in how they are doing the housing storage. I was hoping for a higher ceiling with the storage containers, but it will be enough to keep all the gear that I am hording in it.

As far as the leveling system goes, I give it a resounding "meh..." I hope it helps new players but I have 14 max level characters, so I don't have an overwhelming need to level 1 more.

I'm more concerned with how they are going to change combat than anything.

ak_pvp

Costume system seems great. 1 char knows motifs. Every char can buy outfit bits from that motif for gold. One slot per char.

Only thing I am weary about is leveling, since its not retroactive. (Or so I hear.) Depending what mounts, (basic horses, makes sense.) and if its 1 reward per char leveled, or per account,

Rebirthment

ak_pvp wrote: »

Costume system seems great. 1 char knows motifs. Every char can buy outfit bits from that motif for gold. One slot per char.

Only thing I am weary about is leveling, since its not retroactive. (Or so I hear.) Depending what mounts, (basic horses, makes sense.) and if its 1 reward per char leveled, or per account,

I have heard that it will be per account, though that could be wrong.

Ydrisselle

ak_pvp wrote: »

Costume system seems great. 1 char knows motifs. Every char can buy outfit bits from that motif for gold. One slot per char.

Only thing I am weary about is leveling, since its not retroactive. (Or so I hear.) Depending what mounts, (basic horses, makes sense.) and if its 1 reward per char leveled, or per account,

It's not retroactive; the mount is the basic brown horse (I assume the 10k gold one); and some rewards will be 1/account (like the crown crates and the housing container).

joaaocaampos

@Linaleah

"its limited to crafted motifs only. other games are not."
"allow to use non craftable looks in appearance slots, as long as you are in possession of them - bind them in a process, but let them be used.

Do you know the game you are playing? Most Sets appearances are based on Motif Styles! Necropotence (Argonian), Spriggan (Wood Elf), Plague Doctor (Breton), Spell Power Cure (Xivkyn), Moondancer (Dro-m'Athra) etc.

Also, this is ESO, not WoW. Thanks ZOS! The good thing about ESO is the difference.

ak_pvp

Ydrisselle wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Costume system seems great. 1 char knows motifs. Every char can buy outfit bits from that motif for gold. One slot per char.

Only thing I am weary about is leveling, since its not retroactive. (Or so I hear.) Depending what mounts, (basic horses, makes sense.) and if its 1 reward per char leveled, or per account,

It's not retroactive; the mount is the basic brown horse (I assume the 10k gold one); and some rewards will be 1/account (like the crown crates and the housing container).

Ah, that is good for me then. Since I do have a free slot to level, which would get me the same as someone with all 8 free. but might sting for those with no slots.

jssriot

ak_pvp wrote: »

Only thing I am weary about is leveling, since its not retroactive. (Or so I hear.) Depending what mounts, (basic horses, makes sense.) and if its 1 reward per char leveled, or per account,

I think it's nice they are finally giving players a way to get a mount in-game as a reward. And it's not a new mount--just the Sorrel horse will be a reward, according to the stream.

i watch the stream and I didn't hear of anything that would make me feel like we vet players are missing out on anything--it just sounds like a lot of hand-holding which honestly, I wouldn't have minded when I started out, since this was my first MMO and I was literally clueless about so much. Leveled weapons and some gold, stuff to help players advance--that kind of stuff. But they are going to offer an additional character slot in the crown store for people with 14 toons already if they want to go through the leveling reward system on a new toon.

One thing that made me sit up in preparation of a some vet player hand-wringing is they changed the level reqs on the normal 4-player dungeons. It used to be based on the old scaled system where each zone was scaled for specific levels, and so the dungeons in those zones had level reqs that matched the zone scaling. But now we don't have zone scaling anymore, they are going to change it to something they said was more regular, whatever that means.

Linaleah

joaaocaampos wrote: »

@Linaleah

"its limited to crafted motifs only. other games are not."
"allow to use non craftable looks in appearance slots, as long as you are in possession of them - bind them in a process, but let them be used.

Do you know the game you are playing? Most Sets appearances are based on Motif Styles! Necropotence (Argonian), Spriggan (Wood Elf), Plague Doctor (Breton), Spell Power Cure (Xivkyn), Moondancer (Dro-m'Athra) etc.

Also, this is ESO, not WoW. Thanks ZOS! The good thing about ESO is the difference.

not all. there are pieces of gear that have unique appearance that cannot be crafted. heck even the starting gear when you first land in morrowind cannot be crafted - the slave set , and before you say anything, its not entirely like abbah's watch - the flaps on the jacket are missing, giving it completely different look and then there's clothes that you can steal from various containers in the game. there are a LOT of looks that don't have a crafted equivalent, and that are otherwise, pretty cool looks. that btw, includes monster sets. but you can already wear monster sets, you say? no. you can wear specific monster sets for your build, but you can like the look of sets that do not WORK with your build.

so tell me. do YOU know the game you are playing?

I know its not WoW. the reason I brought up WoW and all those other games is becasue I was replying to the claim that the outfit system in ESO is better then all those other games. I'm pointing out all the ways in which it is NOT. different =/= better btw. (also some of the changes I have suggested, particularly the ability to customize the look of all the possible weapons, even if you are not using them at the time of creating a stamp - is unique to ESO, it is not something that would work or even needed in other games, and its specifically tailored to the way THIS system is described to work).

in any case. its not as bad as i thought it was. my fear was one outfit slot for the entire account and only my master crafter gets to customize it. what we got is more flexible then that, so that's nice. but it could STILL use improvement. and restricting extra slots to crown only purchases is just.... sad. even pure f2p games are less restrictive then that.

Wreuntzylla

Waffennacht wrote: »

This is exactly as I said it would be

You get an insightful for coming up with a fancy way of saying 'I told you so!'

Juhasow

Well I partially agree with OP. As far I am happy that they finally introduced ANY transmog into the game and it doesnt look like totall garbage it leaves the feeling it'll be again half-baked and wasted opportunity. They could make it similar to other games where there are already enjoyable , fully woking systems that are very appreciated by players , but like always they had to overdone it because of that incomprehensible need to always make something different which doesnt means better. Dont get me wrong it's not bad system in my opinion but it leaves little distaste. Similar thing happened to BG's and they didnt learned a lesson.

KochDerDamonen

Chadak wrote: »

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

This costume system has exceeded every expectation I ever had for it. I have no idea why you are here crying. It is the most superior system in any MMO on the market to date. Why are you complaining?

You've played very few MMO's and explored the basis for your statement...I'm gonna go with 'not at all'.

Bye.

@Chadak Does that make this a quitting thread? Gibe gold :^)


I actually don't get all the whine at all. 2k gold can randomly spew out of your arse in this game. Most MMOs I've touched that have a costume/transmog system at all require some kind of PITA token, real money spent, or the destruction of an owned item to use it.

Ajaxduo

People losing their minds already lol. The system is more than reasonable, you can pay down with gold - you aren’t forced to pull out your wallet unless you want extra slots. It’s not like gold is really a problem in ESO. So I will happily pay to change my outfit on the fly. They hinted at adding unique set appearances somehow to the designer in future on the ESO Live, but they want to keep it simple and just start with motifs first.

I can’t wait to test this system on Monday. I will be switching my Maelstrom/Asylum/Master weapons to more interesting styles. ❤️

Lighten up.

Verbal_Earthworm

have you tried SSRIs?

Cloudless

Chadak wrote: »

Remember when it wasn't a catastrophic mistake to get excited about new game stuff? I wish those days would return.

I'm pretty sure your (and lots of others') inability to get excited about new things has very little to do with the quality of said "new game stuff".

Ohtimbar

To each their own. I couldn't be happier with what I've seen so far. I'd rather have this than boring old transmog.

rhapsodious

Linaleah wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

@Linaleah

"its limited to crafted motifs only. other games are not."
"allow to use non craftable looks in appearance slots, as long as you are in possession of them - bind them in a process, but let them be used.

Do you know the game you are playing? Most Sets appearances are based on Motif Styles! Necropotence (Argonian), Spriggan (Wood Elf), Plague Doctor (Breton), Spell Power Cure (Xivkyn), Moondancer (Dro-m'Athra) etc.

Also, this is ESO, not WoW. Thanks ZOS! The good thing about ESO is the difference.

not all. there are pieces of gear that have unique appearance that cannot be crafted. heck even the starting gear when you first land in morrowind cannot be crafted - the slave set , and before you say anything, its not entirely like abbah's watch - the flaps on the jacket are missing, giving it completely different look and then there's clothes that you can steal from various containers in the game. there are a LOT of looks that don't have a crafted equivalent, and that are otherwise, pretty cool looks. that btw, includes monster sets. but you can already wear monster sets, you say? no. you can wear specific monster sets for your build, but you can like the look of sets that do not WORK with your build.

You're not at all wrong here, but I can see them adding that in another update if there's enough demand - once they get a working system, they can add to it and you can get the ability to decon a unique item for a token or something. It's definitely not perfect, but I think for a first pass at the system (and not even including that we haven't seen the PTS yet) it's pretty good.

~

In any case, I think at least waiting for Monday would do a lot to alleviate/lessen people's concerns and fears.

PlagueSD

I'm still waiting to see when they're going to make the default Guild Store UI behave like the Awesome Guild Store Addon interface.

starkerealm

Chadak wrote: »

What grinds my gears is like I said above: how they went hog wild on monetizing it beyond the pale.

You've never played any other MMOs, have you?

Okay, so... here's some fun stuff I've seen in other MMOs.

A fee to level up (no, seriously).

Real money tied to crafting.

Gamble Boxes tied to character gear progression.

Gamble Boxes tied to pay to win gear.

Entire classes locked behind gamble boxes (with serious P2W advantages).

Games that cripple character advancement options unless you spend serious money.

Yeah... no. An utter lack of microtransactions would be the best possible outcome, but ESO's one of the least "hog wild" MMOs when it comes to monitization. If there's a legitimate accusation, it's that the prices are, on average, a bit high. Other than that? Yeah, this is freakin' benign compared to games that charge real world money for guild perks. (Yes, that's also a thing.)

Dromede

jarydf wrote: »

@Chadak - please wait until it is released and you have had a chance to properly try it before going negative.

Maybe it is time to go do something else for a bit, sounds like you are a bit close to it all at the moment and more over getting yourself worked up rather than the outfit system itself.

Try not reading the forum for 2 weeks. I find this forum can burn you out of enjoying the actual game if you are not careful.

^This. I'm giving benefit of the doubt to the system till I have a chance to try it out on PTS. I definitely have certain (high) expectations for the system, but it's too early to judge. We know far too little about it yet.

Insandros

Chadak wrote: »

...that the only thing I feel in anticipation of the new leveling and appearance system is that I shouldn't look forward to them at all, that ZOS is going to take yet another good idea and turn it into yet another shove at the market and, much like housing, it'll be celebrated and paraded around like it's just fantastic when, in actuality, it isn't at all.

Remember when it wasn't a catastrophic mistake to get excited about new game stuff? I wish those days would return.

Most of all apearance, cosmetic features in game are paying, so, don't even know why you amde this post as most people would been expecting this, i would ratehr have cosmetic thing needing to pay for, that stuff necessary to progress in game or to be decent players. I mean, you can live without having a costume, but would you like to pay to use a lvl 50+ toon?

GeorgeBlack

The Gear appearance change has come too late for me and many others. It's not enough at this stage. I won't spend money on ESO. I'm happy waiting for Alpha 1 AoC.
Here are some things I'd like to see worked on before I come back to this game:

1) complete rework of PvE ladderboards. Even though I play stamDK I felt so bad when certain people were left out of Trials because their class of choice would not provide the ultimate DPS numbers. Top dps numbers are not required to beat the game. They are required to beat the score, which is a ridiculous "competition" idea.
Trials should take into account what classes compose the group, and should evaluate each person separately based on the players performance on their chosen class.
This way every class would be welcome in competitive Raids, as long as the player is good.

2) Weapon rebalance. SnB OP. 2h must. DW limited.
Staves -> There should be at least 1 more style for Magea. Add a new weapon.

3)Classes PvP. All stamina and magika classes should be viable and their Lore should be distinctive on the field of Battle. I love how a nightblade hits and runs. I love how a Sorc rides the storm. I love how a temp uses divine powers, I wish warden was less Green and more Ice.
I wish my stamDK would bring the Dragon in PvP. They don't. It's all about shuffle Momentum vigor SnB 2h. Every time I read "New stamdk pvp build it's the same shiet. Ffs.



4)Removal of every single AoE output in Cyrodiil/IC. If you wanna fight other players, chose your target and attack, while being mindful of friends and enemies around your standoff. No more zergs and no more organized groups, which in truth are zergs using voice channels.

5)Fix your server problems.

6) oh yeah.. balance your armors.

Zordrage

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

This costume system has exceeded every expectation I ever had for it. I have no idea why you are here crying. It is the most superior system in any MMO on the market to date. Why are you complaining?

You've played very few MMO's and explored the basis for your statement...I'm gonna go with 'not at all'.

Bye.

Been playing MMO's since UO, Played: CoH's, DAoC, Wow, RIFT, Neverwinter, Champions Online, DCUO, Archage, SWTOR, SW:G, Star Trek, BD:O and FXlV.

This system rivals all the costume systems ive seen with the exception of CoH's because that costume system had millions of combinations and you could have 10 costumes per character.

So never played GW2 ?

GW2 transmog system wants a word with you.....