Immovable potions shuffle and high stamina regeneration = op

Joy_Division

Cinbri wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Immovable pots should be nerfed for next update coz new mechanic of uninterruptable cast time and channels. Otherwise everyone pop it up and spam channels for 15 sec without any problems, like Soul Assault.

This bash thing they talked about probably only works with skills, that are bashable atm, so soul assault wont be one affected by that change, but rather jesus beam, crystal blast, dark deal, dark flare, snipe, etc.

about NB's cloak, it doesnt remove dots, but damage from dots is ignored while cloaking.

Immo pots are strong, but they dont make invincible. 15 secs is a long time tough.
another issue ZOS should look at are those rooting poisons/potions, since they dont work as intended, they root also people, who should be immune to roots.
if you want to to see some poisons removed from the game, start with those rooting poisons/potions and and cost increase poisons.

That what i talk about - you wont be able to cancel 5 dark deals in a row or snipers can troll you and while Xv1 just stand in melee range and you can forget that deep breath or bash will interrupt them.

That's ZoS's dumb changes, no need to nerf immovable pots, which we will need in order to counter such nonsense.

Goshua

LA shields against magic- only , so I'm confused why people are claiming its better than medium which allows you to avoid both types, physical and magic by, as mentioned, a more active style of mitigation.

Apache_Kid

Goshua wrote: »

LA shields against magic- only , so I'm confused why people are claiming its better than medium which allows you to avoid both types, physical and magic by, as mentioned, a more active style of mitigation.

Becuase there are attacks in this game that are unable to be dodged. Which is how you mitigate damage in medium armor. There is no counter to things like soul-assult and cliff racers in medium armor.

Edit: Furthermore go look at the passives. Light armor gives stuff like increased spell resistances along with damage perks. Medium armor has no damage mitigation passive but instead has "fluff" passives like increased sprint speed and reduce sneak radius.

Goshua

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

LA shields against magic- only , so I'm confused why people are claiming its better than medium which allows you to avoid both types, physical and magic by, as mentioned, a more active style of mitigation.

Becuase there are attacks in this game that are unable to be dodged. Which is how you mitigate damage in medium armor. There is no counter to things like soul-assult and cliff racers in medium armor.

Ok, there are things nothing will save you, hell 25+k hp and 20-24k resistance in HA seems to not matter at times,

So you've melee in your face, you'have a magicka pool to heal more, a shield to look after the ranged magic attacks, big deal, you're not doing damage if you're saving your life, unless your class or sets heal you from the damage you take.

How is spamming heals to keep yourself up better than shuffling and dodge rolling away to heal unmolested.. hopefully.
Thats the main difference, you can bugger off a lot easier in medium unless you use mist form, lol and then hello dawnbraker on the next cc immune gap closer.

More on topic, cc and immunity from it is plain broke, its not pots that are the problem, its the lack of conifidence that using cc is a going to work, and b that so called immunity from it actually kicks in

Apache_Kid

Goshua wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

LA shields against magic- only , so I'm confused why people are claiming its better than medium which allows you to avoid both types, physical and magic by, as mentioned, a more active style of mitigation.

Becuase there are attacks in this game that are unable to be dodged. Which is how you mitigate damage in medium armor. There is no counter to things like soul-assult and cliff racers in medium armor.

Ok, there are things nothing will save you, hell 25+k hp and 20-24k resistance in HA seems to not matter at times,

So you've melee in your face, you'have a magicka pool to heal more, a shield to look after the ranged magic attacks, big deal, you're not doing damage if you're saving your life, unless your class or sets heal you from the damage you take.

How is spamming heals to keep yourself up better than shuffling and dodge rolling away to heal unmolested.. hopefully.
Thats the main difference, you can bugger off a lot easier in medium unless you use mist form, lol and then hello dawnbraker on the next cc immune gap closer.

More on topic, cc and immunity from it is plain broke, its not pots that are the problem, its the lack of conifidence that using cc is a going to work, and b that so called immunity from it actually kicks in

I mean, you pretty much answered your own question with mist form which is very powerful right now. And if you are in light armor you can effectively weild a resto staff which means healing ward and many other that no one in medium armor can use effectively. You're not even acknowledging the ability to stack shields.

Someone like a sorc in this is especially going to benefit as they have hardened ward and bolt escape which allows for great mobility. You can get as good if not better mobility in light armor armor on a sorc a long with infinitely better damage mitigation options than any medium build out there.

As far as the original topic is concerned I agree with you that CCs in general are buggy. Like when you try to break free and you just move around slightly while still on the ground etc. It's not clear all the time when immunity is used either.

Goshua

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

LA shields against magic- only , so I'm confused why people are claiming its better than medium which allows you to avoid both types, physical and magic by, as mentioned, a more active style of mitigation.

Becuase there are attacks in this game that are unable to be dodged. Which is how you mitigate damage in medium armor. There is no counter to things like soul-assult and cliff racers in medium armor.

Ok, there are things nothing will save you, hell 25+k hp and 20-24k resistance in HA seems to not matter at times,

So you've melee in your face, you'have a magicka pool to heal more, a shield to look after the ranged magic attacks, big deal, you're not doing damage if you're saving your life, unless your class or sets heal you from the damage you take.

How is spamming heals to keep yourself up better than shuffling and dodge rolling away to heal unmolested.. hopefully.
Thats the main difference, you can bugger off a lot easier in medium unless you use mist form, lol and then hello dawnbraker on the next cc immune gap closer.

More on topic, cc and immunity from it is plain broke, its not pots that are the problem, its the lack of conifidence that using cc is a going to work, and b that so called immunity from it actually kicks in

I mean, you pretty much answered your own question with mist form which is very powerful right now. And if you are in light armor you can effectively weild a resto staff which means healing ward and many other that no one in medium armor can use effectively. You're not even acknowledging the ability to stack shields.

Someone like a sorc in this is especially going to benefit as they have hardened ward and bolt escape which allows for great mobility. You can get as good if not better mobility in light armor armor on a sorc a long with infinitely better damage mitigation options than any medium build out there.

As far as the original topic is concerned I agree with you that CCs in general are buggy. Like when you try to break free and you just move around slightly while still on the ground etc. It's not clear all the time when immunity is used either.

Lets not talk about sorcs and shield stacking, at least their shields are based on their dps stat (they're nearly as bad as NB's for saying how 'bad' they are right now) and weapon choice isn't limited to armor type

Kuramas9tails

Considering stamina nightblades have no shields and no instant healing, they rely HEAVILY on anything that gives them time for Rally and Vigor to tick especially if a group or zerg zeros in on them. That is also why they kite people around objects. Some have even started wearing Troll King for the extra health regeneration. That is why I can't play a Stamina NB. It is a solo build built to maneuver zergs.

Mazbt

I don't even know what even stuns me half the time when i'm in a big fight. Way too many stuns, cheap cost stuns at that. IMO don't touch immovable pots until they buff the natural cc immunity you get from break freeing a cc.

ToRelax

Mazbt wrote: »

I don't even know what even stuns me half the time when i'm in a big fight. Way too many stuns, cheap cost stuns at that. IMO don't touch immovable pots until they buff the natural cc immunity you get from break freeing a cc.

They can't do that... it would end up as a huge buff to anyone who mainly uses stam for cc break, as well as making it much harder to run out of resources in general. Fix it. Don't buff it.

Malamar1229

VaranisArano wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I really think a handful of potions and poisons need to be re-worked or removed. There is a reason certain ones are banned from any serious dueling tournaments. The duration on immovable potions is stupid for one, and the combined major expedition/immovable is ridiculous on a stamina class that already has it's stacked resource pool tied to the best scaling defensive mechanism in the game (dodge rolling), combined with ridiculous heals that don't require a resto staff.

Hell if they toned down PvP healing a bit, could probably remove defile as well. All these additional checks just contribute to the lag anyway.

If certain combos are banned in 1v1 dueling tournaments, that doesn't necessary equate to saying they need to reworked for Cyrodiil which is designed for groups of 2 to 24 players.

I been an advocate of AvAvA since launch. But that doesn't change the point some of these things need to be removed.

LeagueTroll

I agree to the detection 100% part

Ragnarock41

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

my only complaint about nightblades is that how they can ignore dots completely, with the cloak spam abuse.

And this is how you make it clear you haven't even TOUCHED nb class and all your complaints about it are baseless.
(also cloak does not remove any dots)

I didnt say anything about removing dots.
I said you don't even need to remove the dots because more than half of that dot's total damage will be mitigated inside cloak, while you overheal it.

gepe87

On PvP - only alliance potions should work ( i would love to see how ppl play without long immov. potions effect, or low duration like alliance health draught).

Nowadays there are stamblades everywhere (uhh it's so cool to kill fast). A pity that more than half fail miserably.

Drakkdjinn

CP is the culprit, everything you mention has been tuned in light of pvp, crutch points, however, continue to reward players for making mistakes that should've killed them with an easy (passive) recovery across many playstyles.

Mayrael

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.

Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.

Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.

Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.

Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.

A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.

Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.

How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.

Let me explain you:
This topic exists since like beta days of the game.

Facts:
1. Shields size allows to mitigate ~2 strong hits per shield cast - it doesnt give as you said: "A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage" - and if you'd actually use LA and shields you would know that shields lasts for 6s.
2. Shields share CD with other skills so you can't animation cancel your attacks with shields (which is possible with roll dodge), it lowers your presure by a lot.
3. One dodge roll CAN mitigate far more damge than one shield, especially when you face more than one enemy. Shields are a better only when 1v1.
4. Medium armor passives are A BIT better than passives of LA - medium armor has more double bonuses and gives A BIT more armor.

My opinion about shuffle:
1. It was used almost by EVERY HA user, because it doesn't scale with resources pools. Also it removes snares and roots. It gives 15% chance to dodge any dodgeable attack in 20s, even if this would happend 2 times it would still soak up comparable amount of damage to shield.

Apache_Kid

Mayrael wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.

Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.

Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.

Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.

Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.

A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.

Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.

How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.

Let me explain you:
This topic exists since like beta days of the game.

Facts:
1. Shields size allows to mitigate ~2 strong hits per shield cast - it doesnt give as you said: "A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage" - and if you'd actually use LA and shields you would know that shields lasts for 6s.
2. Shields share CD with other skills so you can't animation cancel your attacks with shields (which is possible with roll dodge), it lowers your presure by a lot.
3. One dodge roll CAN mitigate far more damge than one shield, especially when you face more than one enemy. Shields are a better only when 1v1.
4. Medium armor passives are A BIT better than passives of LA - medium armor has more double bonuses and gives A BIT more armor.

My opinion about shuffle:
1. It was used almost by EVERY HA user, because it doesn't scale with resources pools. Also it removes snares and roots. It gives 15% chance to dodge any dodgeable attack in 20s, even if this would happend 2 times it would still soak up comparable amount of damage to shield.

Lmao I got it off by one second. Sue me. I use the ability and know how it works. I also run medium armor builds. It's not difficult to see why LA mitigates more damage. Furthermore you're not even taking into account that every character can roll dodge but medium armor users can roll dodge a lot more. This doesn't reciprocate with shields. Also, medium armor has fluff passives like movement speed buffs and reduce sneak radius while LA passives are all directly related to combat performance (dealing damage and mitigating damage) or sustain.

As stated above I'm not asking for any changes or buffs to medium armor but you'd have to be delusional to not see that it is the weakest armor choice for almost all builds currently.

ToRelax

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.

Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.

Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.

Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.

Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.

A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.

Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.

How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.

Let me explain you:
This topic exists since like beta days of the game.

Facts:
1. Shields size allows to mitigate ~2 strong hits per shield cast - it doesnt give as you said: "A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage" - and if you'd actually use LA and shields you would know that shields lasts for 6s.
2. Shields share CD with other skills so you can't animation cancel your attacks with shields (which is possible with roll dodge), it lowers your presure by a lot.
3. One dodge roll CAN mitigate far more damge than one shield, especially when you face more than one enemy. Shields are a better only when 1v1.
4. Medium armor passives are A BIT better than passives of LA - medium armor has more double bonuses and gives A BIT more armor.

My opinion about shuffle:
1. It was used almost by EVERY HA user, because it doesn't scale with resources pools. Also it removes snares and roots. It gives 15% chance to dodge any dodgeable attack in 20s, even if this would happend 2 times it would still soak up comparable amount of damage to shield.

Lmao I got it off by one second. Sue me. I use the ability and know how it works. I also run medium armor builds. It's not difficult to see why LA mitigates more damage. Furthermore you're not even taking into account that every character can roll dodge but medium armor users can roll dodge a lot more. This doesn't reciprocate with shields. Also, medium armor has fluff passives like movement speed buffs and reduce sneak radius while LA passives are all directly related to combat performance (dealing damage and mitigating damage) or sustain.

As stated above I'm not asking for any changes or buffs to medium armor but you'd have to be delusional to not see that it is the weakest armor choice for almost all builds currently.

Moot point. These "fluff" bonuses, as you call them, are in addition to the equivalents of what light armor gets. In medium, you get damage instead of penetration, slightly lower crit with 5 pieces or about the same with 7, and higher mitigation even when taking the light armor spell resist passive into account.

Apache_Kid

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.

Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.

Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.

Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.

Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.

A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.

Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.

How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.

Let me explain you:
This topic exists since like beta days of the game.

Facts:
1. Shields size allows to mitigate ~2 strong hits per shield cast - it doesnt give as you said: "A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage" - and if you'd actually use LA and shields you would know that shields lasts for 6s.
2. Shields share CD with other skills so you can't animation cancel your attacks with shields (which is possible with roll dodge), it lowers your presure by a lot.
3. One dodge roll CAN mitigate far more damge than one shield, especially when you face more than one enemy. Shields are a better only when 1v1.
4. Medium armor passives are A BIT better than passives of LA - medium armor has more double bonuses and gives A BIT more armor.

My opinion about shuffle:
1. It was used almost by EVERY HA user, because it doesn't scale with resources pools. Also it removes snares and roots. It gives 15% chance to dodge any dodgeable attack in 20s, even if this would happend 2 times it would still soak up comparable amount of damage to shield.

Lmao I got it off by one second. Sue me. I use the ability and know how it works. I also run medium armor builds. It's not difficult to see why LA mitigates more damage. Furthermore you're not even taking into account that every character can roll dodge but medium armor users can roll dodge a lot more. This doesn't reciprocate with shields. Also, medium armor has fluff passives like movement speed buffs and reduce sneak radius while LA passives are all directly related to combat performance (dealing damage and mitigating damage) or sustain.

As stated above I'm not asking for any changes or buffs to medium armor but you'd have to be delusional to not see that it is the weakest armor choice for almost all builds currently.

Moot point. These "fluff" bonuses, as you call them, are in addition to the equivalents of what light armor gets. In medium, you get damage instead of penetration, slightly lower crit with 5 pieces or about the same with 7, and higher mitigation even when taking the light armor spell resist passive into account.

Higher mitigation eh? Test that when soul assault gets fired at yeah or you're being chased down by birds. Let me know how that turns out.

Certain abilities literally completely negate medium's main form of mitigating damage. And you can't even make the argument that medium mitigates more spell damage.

ToRelax

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.

Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.

Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.

Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.

Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.

A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.

Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.

How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.

Let me explain you:
This topic exists since like beta days of the game.

Facts:
1. Shields size allows to mitigate ~2 strong hits per shield cast - it doesnt give as you said: "A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage" - and if you'd actually use LA and shields you would know that shields lasts for 6s.
2. Shields share CD with other skills so you can't animation cancel your attacks with shields (which is possible with roll dodge), it lowers your presure by a lot.
3. One dodge roll CAN mitigate far more damge than one shield, especially when you face more than one enemy. Shields are a better only when 1v1.
4. Medium armor passives are A BIT better than passives of LA - medium armor has more double bonuses and gives A BIT more armor.

My opinion about shuffle:
1. It was used almost by EVERY HA user, because it doesn't scale with resources pools. Also it removes snares and roots. It gives 15% chance to dodge any dodgeable attack in 20s, even if this would happend 2 times it would still soak up comparable amount of damage to shield.

Lmao I got it off by one second. Sue me. I use the ability and know how it works. I also run medium armor builds. It's not difficult to see why LA mitigates more damage. Furthermore you're not even taking into account that every character can roll dodge but medium armor users can roll dodge a lot more. This doesn't reciprocate with shields. Also, medium armor has fluff passives like movement speed buffs and reduce sneak radius while LA passives are all directly related to combat performance (dealing damage and mitigating damage) or sustain.

As stated above I'm not asking for any changes or buffs to medium armor but you'd have to be delusional to not see that it is the weakest armor choice for almost all builds currently.

Moot point. These "fluff" bonuses, as you call them, are in addition to the equivalents of what light armor gets. In medium, you get damage instead of penetration, slightly lower crit with 5 pieces or about the same with 7, and higher mitigation even when taking the light armor spell resist passive into account.

Higher mitigation eh? Test that when soul assault gets fired at yeah or you're being chased down by birds. Let me know how that turns out.

Certain abilities literally completely negate medium's main form of mitigating damage. And you can't even make the argument that medium mitigates more spell damage.

I can, because it does. Even on a 5/1/1 setup you have slightly higher spell resist with 5 medium than 5 light, not to mention physical resistance. And the difference is greater with 7 light/medium.
Maybe you should go back reading my other posts if you now bring up undodgeable abilities. I am not saying medium armor is in a great spot in the current meta, but it's resistances and passives are fine. You made an argument off the less directly combat related medium passives and I showed why it's fallacious. I don't even disagree with your conclusions regarding this thread; simply try to be more accurate in your arguments, please.

Ch4mpTW

Slick_007 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

But then reality sets in again, and I am forced to accept that for whatever the reason, the masses love themselves assassins and rogues. It’s always been that way in gaming unfortunately. People are always so obsessive over ninjas and coward-based play styles. Ugh...

awwww. sounds like someone got ganked. repeatedly, and according to their sig, rage quit.
gg

Someone needs to accept that there are different fighting styles in all games, and not all of them are the one he wants

Someone shouldn’t bait and flame on an Internet forum. Someone should also be aware of what they speak, before they speak it. Someone should also know I main a CC-based MagDK in heavy armor, and never once struggled with StamBlades since Morrowind. Someone should know that my issue is with StamWardens and StamPlars. Not Nightblades in any form, although the MagBlades who spam fear are a nuisance.

Someone needs to learn that ESO’s PvP is far from competitive, and is secondary to PvE. And not go around being rude to those whom they know nothing about for the sake of entertainment. Someone should also probably get their act together in the real world, as said online behavior clearly shows that there are some major issues in the real world that someone might be struggling with.

Apache_Kid

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.

Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.

Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.

Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.

Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.

A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.

Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.

How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.

Let me explain you:
This topic exists since like beta days of the game.

Facts:
1. Shields size allows to mitigate ~2 strong hits per shield cast - it doesnt give as you said: "A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage" - and if you'd actually use LA and shields you would know that shields lasts for 6s.
2. Shields share CD with other skills so you can't animation cancel your attacks with shields (which is possible with roll dodge), it lowers your presure by a lot.
3. One dodge roll CAN mitigate far more damge than one shield, especially when you face more than one enemy. Shields are a better only when 1v1.
4. Medium armor passives are A BIT better than passives of LA - medium armor has more double bonuses and gives A BIT more armor.

My opinion about shuffle:
1. It was used almost by EVERY HA user, because it doesn't scale with resources pools. Also it removes snares and roots. It gives 15% chance to dodge any dodgeable attack in 20s, even if this would happend 2 times it would still soak up comparable amount of damage to shield.

Lmao I got it off by one second. Sue me. I use the ability and know how it works. I also run medium armor builds. It's not difficult to see why LA mitigates more damage. Furthermore you're not even taking into account that every character can roll dodge but medium armor users can roll dodge a lot more. This doesn't reciprocate with shields. Also, medium armor has fluff passives like movement speed buffs and reduce sneak radius while LA passives are all directly related to combat performance (dealing damage and mitigating damage) or sustain.

As stated above I'm not asking for any changes or buffs to medium armor but you'd have to be delusional to not see that it is the weakest armor choice for almost all builds currently.

Moot point. These "fluff" bonuses, as you call them, are in addition to the equivalents of what light armor gets. In medium, you get damage instead of penetration, slightly lower crit with 5 pieces or about the same with 7, and higher mitigation even when taking the light armor spell resist passive into account.

Higher mitigation eh? Test that when soul assault gets fired at yeah or you're being chased down by birds. Let me know how that turns out.

Certain abilities literally completely negate medium's main form of mitigating damage. And you can't even make the argument that medium mitigates more spell damage.

I can, because it does. Even on a 5/1/1 setup you have slightly higher spell resist with 5 medium than 5 light, not to mention physical resistance. And the difference is greater with 7 light/medium.
Maybe you should go back reading my other posts if you now bring up undodgeable abilities. I am not saying medium armor is in a great spot in the current meta, but it's resistances and passives are fine. You made an argument off the less directly combat related medium passives and I showed why it's fallacious. I don't even disagree with your conclusions regarding this thread; simply try to be more accurate in your arguments, please.

No they don't mitigate more spell damage because you are no longer factoring in the light armor shield. At least I don't constantly omit important things when making my arguments.

Nothing is wrong with immov pots.

Nothing is wrong with shufflle

Maybe medium would be in a better place if they had counters to move that can't be dodged.

I've played both types of armor quite a bit and many many many hours in medium and I always without fail feel infinitely more tanky. Having LA gives me passives that allow me to effectively use a restoration staff on my back bar which gives great options for healing and damage mitigation. On my medium armor builds I have....vigor? Maybe an OK class based stamina heal depending on who you are.

Medium doesn't allow for more damage mitigation when you actually consider all the factors and don't pretend you're looking at the passives and the numbers in a vacuum.

VaranisArano

gepe87 wrote: »

On PvP - only alliance potions should work ( i would love to see how ppl play without long immov. potions effect, or low duration like alliance health draught).

Nowadays there are stamblades everywhere (uhh it's so cool to kill fast). A pity that more than half fail miserably.

Yup. Totally. Alchemy, one of the those crafting skill lines that you worked to level and that has useful passives for everyone even if you don't craft the pots yourself?

That should be used only in PVE and be totally useless in PVP.

Yup. Totally.


What?