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Immovable potions shuffle and high stamina regeneration = op
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method__01✭✭✭✭✭pvp ppl who use a lot of potions,exchange /jewelry/weapons for potions cause pvp'ers are usually low on cashPC EU/NA /// PS4 EU/NA
Vasanha
This one hears nothing. Sees nothing. This one only sweeps.
desperately need a survey assistant0 -
Insandros✭✭✭✭Then don't use massive CCs :P OR make interesting CC immunity, then you won'T see people spamming CC skills1 -
EmEm_Oh✭✭✭✭✭Twohothardware wrote: »I'd like to see snares/CC's rebalanced and immovable pots removed from the game entirely. There is a reason immovable pots aren't allowed in the PC dueling Tournaments. Pots should be buffs but shouldn't give you immunity to anything, especially the most core element of combat which is CC'ing your opponent.
I’d agree with this, immov pots shouldn’t be necessary. Snare poisons should leave the game, cost poisons should leave, and as you say snares and ccs be adjusted so that they’re tied to particular skills and not super high damage skills. So sick of spending most of my time cc breaking, applying costly snare removal skills or moving at 30% speed. Although the removal of immov pots will prob be an unpopular idea. I’d like the combat to move towards actual combat and less of a reliance on potions/poisons and rooting people to the ground so the entire zerg can pound of them. Right now If you don’t run immov pots then you just can’t compete unless you’re in a giant zerg. If you’re 1v1 against someone who can afford stacks of immov pots and is equal or even slightly less skilled, chances are you’re dead.
Cost potions were already reduced by 50%, bringing them down to 30% (was 60%).
I don't really have a problem with them. Sure, I get hit with the same stuff I use on others but I dodge most of them or stay out of their way as much as I can.
I disagree with if you're NOT using immov then you cannot compete. Simply not the case for me. I don't use immov pots all the time, and I still can do damage fairly reasonably if I am with a small group.
Bottom line is, for most people in Cyro, if you're on your own, you better be damn good or you will run up against the players who are well experienced in whatever way you can imagine (actually using skills, spamming, macros, pots). I'm not great, so I ride with maybe 3 or so peeps and we do just fine. If you're in Cyro, on your own, and you see a loner out there and want to take a chance at taking them out, it will quickly humble you.
Edited by EmEm_Oh on January 3, 2018 2:01PM2 -
EmEm_Oh✭✭✭✭✭but shuffle requires 5 pieces of medium to use and it was my understanding that the forums opinion of medium armor was its the trashiest armor in the game and needs dire buffs?
or is this just another instance of something killed me so its op?
or is this just another instance of someone thinking something is op?
Medium armor does quite well. I use a combo of both med and heavy in some cases, but I wouldn't discount medium armor. All of the armor types can do very well. It's the pieces of armor that can be "trashy" and not fully exploit your armor skill line.0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Immovable pots should be nerfed for next update coz new mechanic of uninterruptable cast time and channels. Otherwise everyone pop it up and spam channels for 15 sec without any problems, like Soul Assault.
This bash thing they talked about probably only works with skills, that are bashable atm, so soul assault wont be one affected by that change, but rather jesus beam, crystal blast, dark deal, dark flare, snipe, etc.
about NB's cloak, it doesnt remove dots, but damage from dots is ignored while cloaking.
Immo pots are strong, but they dont make invincible. 15 secs is a long time tough.
another issue ZOS should look at are those rooting poisons/potions, since they dont work as intended, they root also people, who should be immune to roots.
if you want to to see some poisons removed from the game, start with those rooting poisons/potions and and cost increase poisons.
That what i talk about - you wont be able to cancel 5 dark deals in a row or snipers can troll you and while Xv1 just stand in melee range and you can forget that deep breath or bash will interrupt them.1 -
lazerlaz✭✭✭CCs in this game are a cancer with constant snares, stuns, and stunlocks. You guys are complaining about 15 seconds of CC immunity every 45 seconds?
This is a L2P issue for all of you.
In fact CCs need a serious look at because it's getting out of control in PVP.
Shuffle isn't even doing its job by giving the brief immunity after casting like it says it should in the tool tips.
L2P, L2P, and L2P.Edited by lazerlaz on January 3, 2018 2:11PM8 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.5 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mean, I can see that the combination of Shuffle + Immovable pots + loads of stam regen creates a window where players who use that combo effectively aren't taking much damage.
Still, that's not exactly a durable build and its pretty reliant on using that combo effectively. It's also available to any stamina build wearing medium armor so it can be used by any player without being limited by class, unlike certain other skills.Edited by VaranisArano on January 3, 2018 3:01PM1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I mean, I can see that the combination of Shuffle + Immovable pots + loads of stam regen creates a window where players who use that combo effectively aren't taking much damage.
Still, that's not exactly a durable build and its pretty reliant on using that combo effectively.
Like every class has the ability to create windows where if they use combos effectively they won't take much damage. Look at DKs or Sorcs. As you said it's still not durable and when you do hit it's still going to hit them hard.1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.
Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.
Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.
Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.
Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.2 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Brosteen wrote: »Can't believe it hasn't been said yet,
L2p
Probably because it’s bannable. I would know, was banned for a year for saying it lol. So I don’t say it anymore.
On a more constructive point, if he is LoSing a lot, say, running around a tower, second floor, at a resource, skills will constantly misfire or not go off and even sometimes go off and completely miss. That’s why LoS is so powerful. This isn’t NB specific. Any class does this. Any class in medium armor has access to shuffle. When 10 people are chasing a person clockwise you know what you do? Go counter clockwise and CC so when everyone catches up they can blast the person.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I mean, I can see that the combination of Shuffle + Immovable pots + loads of stam regen creates a window where players who use that combo effectively aren't taking much damage.
Still, that's not exactly a durable build and its pretty reliant on using that combo effectively.
Like every class has the ability to create windows where if they use combos effectively they won't take much damage. Look at DKs or Sorcs. As you said it's still not durable and when you do hit it's still going to hit them hard.
Definitely. I think this is pretty balanced all things considered. In Cyrodiil, there's always the option to get enough players motivated enough to run that player to ground if nothing else works.1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I mean, I can see that the combination of Shuffle + Immovable pots + loads of stam regen creates a window where players who use that combo effectively aren't taking much damage.
Still, that's not exactly a durable build and its pretty reliant on using that combo effectively.
Like every class has the ability to create windows where if they use combos effectively they won't take much damage. Look at DKs or Sorcs. As you said it's still not durable and when you do hit it's still going to hit them hard.
Definitely. I think this is pretty balanced all things considered. In Cyrodiil, there's always the option to get enough players motivated enough to run that player to ground if nothing else works.
Agreed I think it's more balanced than people give it credit for. The thing that's causing unbalances is the latency and lag for different players in my opinion. Other than the permablockers which are ignorable in Cyrodiil and are only an issue in BGs, I find the combat to be pretty enjoyable and balanced right now. Give me a seperate Non-CP queue for BGs and I'm golden.2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.
Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.
Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.
Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.
Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.
Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.
Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.
Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.
Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.
A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.Edited by Apache_Kid on January 3, 2018 3:27PM0 -
Dragath✭✭✭✭One of the benefits as a NB is the fact that you DON'T need Medium Armor for the Evasion Buff.2
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »Too bad I couldn't join for that last run. xD Congrats to you and thanks to everyone who was playing with us over the last few days, was a amazing time!
@DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER
This is the second comment of yours I've seen that seems to have missed its intended thread. You might take a little extra time to make sure you are posting on the correct thread.
Edited to add: Nevermind, you are copy-pasting other people's comments. BORING! Original post: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4746858#Comment_4746858Edited by VaranisArano on January 3, 2018 4:17PM0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.
Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.
Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.
Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.
Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.
A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.
Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.
Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.
Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.
Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.
Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.
A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.
Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.
How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.2 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really think a handful of potions and poisons need to be re-worked or removed. There is a reason certain ones are banned from any serious dueling tournaments. The duration on immovable potions is stupid for one, and the combined major expedition/immovable is ridiculous on a stamina class that already has it's stacked resource pool tied to the best scaling defensive mechanism in the game (dodge rolling), combined with ridiculous heals that don't require a resto staff.
Hell if they toned down PvP healing a bit, could probably remove defile as well. All these additional checks just contribute to the lag anyway.Edited by Malamar1229 on January 3, 2018 4:21PM1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »I really think a handful of potions and poisons need to be re-worked or removed. There is a reason certain ones are banned from any serious dueling tournaments. The duration on immovable potions is stupid for one, and the combined major expedition/immovable is ridiculous on a stamina class that already has it's stacked resource pool tied to the best scaling defensive mechanism in the game (dodge rolling), combined with ridiculous heals that don't require a resto staff.
Hell if they toned down PvP healing a bit, could probably remove defile as well. All these additional checks just contribute to the lag anyway.
If certain combos are banned in 1v1 dueling tournaments, that doesn't necessary equate to saying they need to reworked for Cyrodiil which is designed for groups of 2 to 24 players.2 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I can’t remember the last time I died 1v1 to a stamblade that didn’t drastically outplay me.2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.
Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.
Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.
Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.
Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.
A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.
Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.
How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.
You feel more tanky in light because you are playing in a very different playstyle. You can outheal bursts more easily. You may be using damage shields. And you may be using one hand/shield on light and not medium.
Like I said, you can make medium work well by making some sacrifices - whether that's worth it is on everyone to decide themselves as it depends on build and playstyle. But the point is that medium armor is not looked at so unfafourably compared to the other armor types because of it's passives or raw mitigation values, but because of too many too powerful hard counters to dodging. Taking the current balance situation as a reason to buff medium armor would be like buffing shields because Shieldbreaker exists.Edited by ToRelax on January 3, 2018 4:58PMDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think the the build and playstyle you describe is OP at all. It may be strong against your build because of the choices you've made though. That's the nature of this game.
I can struggle open world solo against good nightblades if I don't run counters to cloak because they can reset the fight at will. It's fair because I've chosen not to counter it as part of a trade-off to be more effective in other scenarios. Though cloak can be strong, it has an absurd number of counters and bugs that can make it completely useless in combat.
Medium armor is squishy without an evasive playstyle that its passives and shuffle help enable. You describe how it's supposed to be used. Medium is all about mobility. Even when using shuffle and immovable potions, there are many effective counters to this mobility.2 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.
Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.
Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.
Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.
Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.
A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.
Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.
How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.
You feel more tanky in light because you are playing in a very different playstyle. You can outheal bursts more easily. You may be using damage shields. And you may be using one hand/shield on light and not medium.
Like I said, you can make medium work well by making some sacrifices - whether that's worth it is on everyone to decide themselves as it depends on build and playstyle. But the point is that medium armor is not looked so unfafourably compared to the other armor types because of it's passives or raw mitigation values, but because of too many too powerful hard counters to dodging. Taking the current balance situation as a reason to buff medium armor would be like buffing shields because Shieldbreaker exists.
I'm not saying it should be buffed, i never said that. Yeah you can make medium builds work. I play a couple builds in medium. And I do adapt my play-style. I still feel it is the worst option for armor type selection. I can still be effective with it and have fun with the build. However, just because something is the worst option doesn't necessarily mean it needs a buff. It's difficult to make everything equal so something has to be "the worst".
My argument was more an attempt to say to the OP that NO actually, Immov pots and shuffle should NOT be nerfed because medium users already have it hard enough. I'm not asking for any changes. Rather, I'm asking it stays as is.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.
Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.
Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.
Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.
Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.
A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.
Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.
How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.
You feel more tanky in light because you are playing in a very different playstyle. You can outheal bursts more easily. You may be using damage shields. And you may be using one hand/shield on light and not medium.
Like I said, you can make medium work well by making some sacrifices - whether that's worth it is on everyone to decide themselves as it depends on build and playstyle. But the point is that medium armor is not looked so unfafourably compared to the other armor types because of it's passives or raw mitigation values, but because of too many too powerful hard counters to dodging. Taking the current balance situation as a reason to buff medium armor would be like buffing shields because Shieldbreaker exists.
I'm not saying it should be buffed, i never said that. Yeah you can make medium builds work. I play a couple builds in medium. And I do adapt my play-style. I still feel it is the worst option for armor type selection. I can still be effective with it and have fun with the build. However, just because something is the worst option doesn't necessarily mean it needs a buff. It's difficult to make everything equal so something has to be "the worst".
My argument was more an attempt to say to the OP that NO actually, Immov pots and shuffle should NOT be nerfed because medium users already have it hard enough. I'm not asking for any changes. Rather, I'm asking it stays as is.
Fair enough.
Another poster thought it should be buffed, that's why I mentioned it.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Can we please ban any mention of something involving Shuffle being OP? We have to use 5 pieces of medium armor to use the ability which is BY FAR the worst armor type you can possibly choose for PvP so there are large sacrifices made to use it. If someone is using shuffle that means they are in 5 medium and are squishy. I also don't understand the claim that Immov. pots are OP because it isn't class specific. Literally every player in the game has access to them and can choose to run them.
Medium Armor isn't bad by any means. It's just useless against undodgeable crap like Soul Assault or Cliffracers.
Medium armor is not as good as heavy or light armor. It is the worst choice for PvP armor type. Undodgeable's are beocming more and more common anyways.
Light armor gives you shields while heavy armor gives you extra resistances and tankiness which allows you to fight while taking advantage of that tankiness. Medium armor users? You get to roll-dodge. Which means you have to stop doing damage. And even then, there is 0 counter the the undodgeable moves. Why? Because the main form of damage mitigation for medium armor users is dodge-rolling. It's not like there are certain abilities that can completely mitigate and hit through shields or ignore armor resistances.
Light armor gives you one shield, and it's expensive af against stam builds.
And stop doing damage? Using GCDs on shields does that; dodge cancelling much less so.
A shield gives you 5 seconds where your health is entirely protected and you can do damage for 5 straight seconds without having to re-buff the shield unless you take tons of damage or are outnumbered. You can even stack multiple shields. Even cancelling a dodge-roll will give you like 4 seconds less of protection. I don't see your point. Are you actually trying to argue that medium armor is on par with light armor for mitigating damage and surviving? You can't be. And the buffs that you get for medium compared to light that aren't damage mitigation isn't much different in terms of effectiveness either.
Actually medium is better for both protection and healing than light. Once again, it's not used more these days because it's main active defense - dodging - is too unreliable. You can make a build work just fine by investing into extra healing and mitigation like heavy would give; but for most people, you might as well just run heavy instead and get access to some very powerful sets in the process.
How can you claim that medium is better than protection than light (it isn't) and then the next sentence say that medium's main active defense is too unreliable? This seems contradictory to me. I've PvP'd in both types of armor with different specs and ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, feel more tanky in light. You must have some secret special champion point allocation or something if you feel that Medium is giving the same in terms of damage mitigation because I just don't feel the same way.
You feel more tanky in light because you are playing in a very different playstyle. You can outheal bursts more easily. You may be using damage shields. And you may be using one hand/shield on light and not medium.
Like I said, you can make medium work well by making some sacrifices - whether that's worth it is on everyone to decide themselves as it depends on build and playstyle. But the point is that medium armor is not looked so unfafourably compared to the other armor types because of it's passives or raw mitigation values, but because of too many too powerful hard counters to dodging. Taking the current balance situation as a reason to buff medium armor would be like buffing shields because Shieldbreaker exists.
I'm not saying it should be buffed, i never said that. Yeah you can make medium builds work. I play a couple builds in medium. And I do adapt my play-style. I still feel it is the worst option for armor type selection. I can still be effective with it and have fun with the build. However, just because something is the worst option doesn't necessarily mean it needs a buff. It's difficult to make everything equal so something has to be "the worst".
My argument was more an attempt to say to the OP that NO actually, Immov pots and shuffle should NOT be nerfed because medium users already have it hard enough. I'm not asking for any changes. Rather, I'm asking it stays as is.
Fair enough.
Another poster thought it should be buffed, that's why I mentioned it.
Understood. For the record my main PvP character actually runs around in medium.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Does everybody just spew nerf nonsense without thinking about anything else that may be affected by it? Do we just nerf something, because people are so bad they cant survive 15s of fighting without CCing the target? In this patch, where nearly every class has some undodgeable CC and the 15s of immovable is on medium literally the grace period you have to to get in, kill target and get out before someone CCs you without any skill (or even aiming) required.0