Many people againts Necro with the excuse of Lore and mah immersion... so..

SirAxen

Kiara wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Rupz_Koomar wrote: »

ESO isn't that of an immersive game. And neither ESO is completely faithful to the lore.
None of these reasons justify why Necromancer class should not be a thing in ESO.
There are 100 other reasons I can list you which justify that but you already know as u argued with everyone who oppose a new class.Take what u learnt from them and educate yourself :P

Necromancer class is not happening in the next 2 or 3 years as it does not make sense businesswise so U can now stop with new class nonsense
You have been waiting for it since launch and u will wait for it for years to come and most probably forever..

Faithful to the lore. Christ, Skyrim managed to bastardize more of the TES lore than anything ESO has thrown up. In fact, Bethesda themselves are the worst when it comes to keeping their own TES lore in check. I get there are niggles contained within ESO, but it's no woese than what we've witnessed on TES games proper.

I wholeheartedly disagree. ESO has way more plot holes and lore inconsistence than any TES game ever had in my opinion

Also, I'd love to see necromancer class ^.^

That is because ESO comes before any of the single player games. Meaning, that had free reign. Also, most lore within the ES universe is 'account' based. Which means, just because one author mentioned something as so in a book, doesn't mean it is entirely accurate. ...Much like real life.

Kiara

SirAxen wrote: »

That is because ESO comes before any of the single player games. Meaning, that had free reign. Also, most lore within the ES universe is 'account' based. Which means, just because one author mentioned something as so in a book, doesn't mean it is entirely accurate. ...Much like real life.

I agree that book accuracy is shady both in real life and in-game, but in my later post I stated a few lore-breaking things that your post above does not address, things like:
Existence of Cropsford or Seyda Neen, books in game that are from the future, Cyrodiil not being jungle for the actual time.
And while what you posted is true, things that we witness in-games are the most certain... And what I see in ESO is Lusty Argonian Maid written by a dude I saw 600 years or so later in Morrowind.

Enodoc

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I thought necromancy wasn't always forbidden/hated by the Mages Guild.

This is correct. Galerion got Mannimarco kicked out of the Psijics because of Necromancy, and Galerion later founded the Mages Guild, so they would have probably had a general aversion to it, but as far as we know, it wasn't until Hannibal Traven that the Mages Guild actually got into the politics of actually banning it.

In terms of a class for ESO, there would be nothing wrong with it from a lore perspective. There were suggestions that an early version of the Mages Guild storyline was going to be a questline that unlocked Necromancer skills. The problem with a Necromancer class isn't the general lore, it's how it would work with the specific anti-Necromancer storylines that are already built, and also how it would be sufficiently different from Sorcerer and Warden.

Reckquiem

Eremith wrote: »

Yes, that's how it works.
ZOS could make ESO2 with compeletely new storylines and all new quests. That's how playable necros would become valid.
In current ESO necros are invalid.

I wonder why you still can't see that.

I can't see it sorry. I get the main storyline is about defeating mannimarco and the worm cult but why would a playable necromancer class with no ties to the cult or mannimarco be un-lore friendly? You can still go through the whole Story line With Meridia being a Vampire, Werewolf or Dark Brotherhood assassin? Why not a Necromancer?

The Mages Guild only banned the use and study of necromancy in 3E 431 so a bit before Oblivion right? Not sure on the ESO's Mages guild stance on it but?

tyjoie

A necromancer class would either be horribly difficult to balance or horribly underwhelming. So I think ZOS have done the right thing in giving it a wide birth for the time being as a class with a skill line(s) primarily dealing with having pets as the main damage source rather than the player would just be stupidly broken one way or another.

arpadsweb16_ESO

Complaints against necromancy gameplay were invalidated as soon as necromantic abilities made their way into the sorcerer, nightblade skill trees as well as neutral ones such as Fighter's Guild with bone shields and necrotic orbs. By Molag's Balls, we can be bloody pure blooded vampires.Having the option to play as something evil hasn't been in the way of the story or the immersion at all.

The fact is that Elder Scrolls Online takes place during the golden age of necromancy in Tamriel, all sorts of dark horrors are emerging from the shadows of the past as Mannimarco's Soulburst tore down the veil between Nirn and Oblivion. We already have zombie emotes, undead polymorphs, undead mounts and other sinister spells and outfits - NECROMANCY IS IN HIGH DEMAND, Diablo, Heartstone, Grim Dawn and other games and celebrated titles have been focusing in on Necromancy in 2017. People love it, there's always a hardcore fanbase of all this unholy and necromantic in nature - ESO has both the game assets, the lore and the audience to focus towards bringing us such an experience. Serve your customers, serve me and reap the monetary benefits.

Xvorg

Rupz_Koomar wrote: »

ESO isn't that of an immersive game. And neither ESO is completely faithful to the lore.
None of these reasons justify why Necromancer class should not be a thing in ESO.
There are 100 other reasons I can list you which justify that but you already know as u argued with everyone who oppose a new class.Take what u learnt from them and educate yourself :P

Necromancer class is not happening in the next 2 or 3 years as it does not make sense businesswise so U can now stop with new class nonsense
You have been waiting for it since launch and u will wait for it for years to come and most probably forever..

Who created necromancers? Wasn't the same guy you beat in Sancre Tor in the main quest?

That's all. Necros here are the bad guys... now necro fans should go to LotRo forums and ask for a playable Uruk Hai char...

Xvorg

Rupz_Koomar wrote: »

True Necros are not all bad.
Mannimarco does not represent all of US.
Ps: no new class plz ;_:

Mannimarco IS your god.

Sorry, but even as I like a lot necromancy in TES, here has no part.

On the contrary, Vamps are accepted because it is a way different kind of Vamp. Haven't you ask yourself why vamps cannot die under the sun? Why do Meredia accept the help of a possible vamp?

That's because ESO vamps are no vamps, are just bloodfiends without a soul (so they can't fo feral)

Xvorg

OK.

Between ESO and Arena there are almost 700 years of difference and a Talos in middle.

During ESO events, Necros were the bad guys. It doesn't matter if 1000 years before or 1000 yeasr after there are "good" necros. In the second era they were all of them following Mannimarco. If you are a necro, then, how would you oppose to mannimarco AND Molag Bal? Even f both of them promse you victory... that sole concept has no point.

Now somethging for yu to consider: Telvanni... why didn't they join the Pact? Among several reasons, there was a ban on necromancy during that time. The only instance I remember a "good" NPC using necromancy it's Aelif and she wans't good, right?

notimetocare

Xvorg wrote: »

OK.

Between ESO and Arena there are almost 700 years of difference and a Talos in middle.

During ESO events, Necros were the bad guys. It doesn't matter if 1000 years before or 1000 yeasr after there are "good" necros. In the second era they were all of them following Mannimarco. If you are a necro, then, how would you oppose to mannimarco AND Molag Bal? Even f both of them promse you victory... that sole concept has no point.

Now somethging for yu to consider: Telvanni... why didn't they join the Pact? Among several reasons, there was a ban on necromancy during that time. The only instance I remember a "good" NPC using necromancy it's Aelif and she wans't good, right?

Alot wrong here.
-Dunmer ancestor worship is a form of Necromancy.
-Necromancy is not currently banned in any sense. It is very taboo to the Redguards (likely the only that would ban it). Most races, as a majority, oppose the practice for the same reason we in our world oppose defiling graves.
-Not all necromancers are in service to Mannimarco or the worm cult.

Xvorg

notimetocare wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

OK.

Between ESO and Arena there are almost 700 years of difference and a Talos in middle.

During ESO events, Necros were the bad guys. It doesn't matter if 1000 years before or 1000 yeasr after there are "good" necros. In the second era they were all of them following Mannimarco. If you are a necro, then, how would you oppose to mannimarco AND Molag Bal? Even f both of them promse you victory... that sole concept has no point.

Now somethging for yu to consider: Telvanni... why didn't they join the Pact? Among several reasons, there was a ban on necromancy during that time. The only instance I remember a "good" NPC using necromancy it's Aelif and she wans't good, right?

Alot wrong here.
-Dunmer ancestor worship is a form of Necromancy.
-Necromancy is not currently banned in any sense. It is very taboo to the Redguards (likely the only that would ban it). Most races, as a majority, oppose the practice for the same reason we in our world oppose defiling graves.
-Not all necromancers are in service to Mannimarco or the worm cult.

During the Planemeld? Name only one good Necro.

Don't you think the link between Mannimarco and Molag Bal goes beyond Manny's ambition of becoming a new god of schemes? Theres' something Molag Bal gave Manny in exchange... maybe control over all necros?

As I said before, It doesn't matter Necros in the past or the future, is during the events of the Planemeld and that shows there's no good necro.

Regarding Dunmer ancestor woship... maybe you should try some other TES games. Though they use necromancy in the form of spells, there are NO necromancers in dunmer culture. The class doesn't exist and the closest classes to necromancy are the ones who have Conjuration as a major skill: Battlemage, Sorc and Witchhunter (Mage in Oblivion). None of the is near the archetype of a Necro

Instead of Necro, I prefer a Battlemage that uses magicka with stam weapon skills or stam with magicka weapon skills.

MythicEmperor

Xvorg wrote: »

OK.

Between ESO and Arena there are almost 700 years of difference and a Talos in middle.

During ESO events, Necros were the bad guys. It doesn't matter if 1000 years before or 1000 yeasr after there are "good" necros. In the second era they were all of them following Mannimarco. If you are a necro, then, how would you oppose to mannimarco AND Molag Bal? Even f both of them promse you victory... that sole concept has no point.

Now somethging for yu to consider: Telvanni... why didn't they join the Pact? Among several reasons, there was a ban on necromancy during that time. The only instance I remember a "good" NPC using necromancy it's Aelif and she wans't good, right?

Your assertion that all necromancers follow Mannimarco is a bold and unfounded one. It is like saying “all thieves follow Rajhin. All assassins follow Sithis. All scholars follow Hermaeus Mora. All farmers follow Zeht. All traders follow Zenithar.” I could go on and on and on.

Why would a necromancer oppose Mannimarco and Molag Bal? The same reason a sorcerer (who summons Daedra, the spawns of the main enemy of the main quest) would. Not wanting to be enslaved and tortured for eternity seems like a good enough reason to me.

You seem to know nothing about House Telvanni. Allow me to correct that. House Telvanni refused to join the Pact because of the ban on enslaving Pact races. Argonians are one of the most common slave race; freeing them would mean crippling the labor force of eastern Morrowind.

As for your strange assumption that there is a ban on necromancy.... what? There is no such ban. Necromancy is only illegal when it is used to aid in illegal activities. Say, initiating the Planemeld. By itself, it is just another form of magic. Your claim is equivalent to saying that fire magic is banned because you could use it to melt a civilian’s face off. It isn’t.

Xvorg wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

OK.

Between ESO and Arena there are almost 700 years of difference and a Talos in middle.

During ESO events, Necros were the bad guys. It doesn't matter if 1000 years before or 1000 yeasr after there are "good" necros. In the second era they were all of them following Mannimarco. If you are a necro, then, how would you oppose to mannimarco AND Molag Bal? Even f both of them promse you victory... that sole concept has no point.

Now somethging for yu to consider: Telvanni... why didn't they join the Pact? Among several reasons, there was a ban on necromancy during that time. The only instance I remember a "good" NPC using necromancy it's Aelif and she wans't good, right?

Alot wrong here.
-Dunmer ancestor worship is a form of Necromancy.
-Necromancy is not currently banned in any sense. It is very taboo to the Redguards (likely the only that would ban it). Most races, as a majority, oppose the practice for the same reason we in our world oppose defiling graves.
-Not all necromancers are in service to Mannimarco or the worm cult.

During the Planemeld? Name only one good Necro.

Don't you think the link between Mannimarco and Molag Bal goes beyond Manny's ambition of becoming a new god of schemes? Theres' something Molag Bal gave Manny in exchange... maybe control over all necros?

As I said before, It doesn't matter Necros in the past or the future, is during the events of the Planemeld and that shows there's no good necro.

Regarding Dunmer ancestor woship... maybe you should try some other TES games. Though they use necromancy in the form of spells, there are NO necromancers in dunmer culture. The class doesn't exist and the closest classes to necromancy are the ones who have Conjuration as a major skill: Battlemage, Sorc and Witchhunter (Mage in Oblivion). None of the is near the archetype of a Necro

Instead of Necro, I prefer a Battlemage that uses magicka with stam weapon skills or stam with magicka weapon skills.

Either you are a troll or you know nothing about Elder Scrolls lore. I am inclined to believe the latter assumption.

You say that Mannimarco has control “over all necros,” yet I see no evidence whatsoever for this baseless assertion. Your source? Yet again, there isn’t one. I suppose, then, that Molag Bal puppeteers every sorcerer in-game because of their association with Daedra? You see, assertions like these are far from logical.

You tell @notimetocare to “try some other TES games,” yet it is you who lacks understanding on the topic you so fervently attack. There are plenty of necromancers in Morrowind. To quote http://teso.mmorpg-life.com/ancestors-and-the-dunmer-abridged-lorebook/

“The Dark Elves would never think of practicing sorcerous necromancy upon any Dark Elf or upon the remains of any Elf. However, Dark Elves consider the human and Orcish races to be little more than animals. There is no injunction against necromancy upon such remains, or on the remains of any animal, bird, or insect.”

In reading this book you’ll see that while necromancy is practiced in many, many, forms by the Dunmer, the term “necromancy” is explicitly used and deemed acceptable so long as it isn’t practiced on elves. Even then, Ancestor magic (summoning and binding ghosts) is a form of necromancy, albeit under a different name. Guess what? Someone who uses necromancy is -*gasp*- a necromancer. Incredible! It doesn’t matter what one calls oneself. I could be a shoemaker and call myself a farmer. I’d still be a shoemaker.

I realize my tone here was more sarcastic than usual, but I felt it necessary in order to make my point. An argument can’t be taken seriously without either sources or logic.

notimetocare

Xvorg wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

OK.

Between ESO and Arena there are almost 700 years of difference and a Talos in middle.

During ESO events, Necros were the bad guys. It doesn't matter if 1000 years before or 1000 yeasr after there are "good" necros. In the second era they were all of them following Mannimarco. If you are a necro, then, how would you oppose to mannimarco AND Molag Bal? Even f both of them promse you victory... that sole concept has no point.

Now somethging for yu to consider: Telvanni... why didn't they join the Pact? Among several reasons, there was a ban on necromancy during that time. The only instance I remember a "good" NPC using necromancy it's Aelif and she wans't good, right?

Alot wrong here.
-Dunmer ancestor worship is a form of Necromancy.
-Necromancy is not currently banned in any sense. It is very taboo to the Redguards (likely the only that would ban it). Most races, as a majority, oppose the practice for the same reason we in our world oppose defiling graves.
-Not all necromancers are in service to Mannimarco or the worm cult.

During the Planemeld? Name only one good Necro.

Don't you think the link between Mannimarco and Molag Bal goes beyond Manny's ambition of becoming a new god of schemes? Theres' something Molag Bal gave Manny in exchange... maybe control over all necros?

As I said before, It doesn't matter Necros in the past or the future, is during the events of the Planemeld and that shows there's no good necro.

Regarding Dunmer ancestor woship... maybe you should try some other TES games. Though they use necromancy in the form of spells, there are NO necromancers in dunmer culture. The class doesn't exist and the closest classes to necromancy are the ones who have Conjuration as a major skill: Battlemage, Sorc and Witchhunter (Mage in Oblivion). None of the is near the archetype of a Necro

Instead of Necro, I prefer a Battlemage that uses magicka with stam weapon skills or stam with magicka weapon skills.

Played since Daggerfall. lol

A daedric prince cannot give a person control over all users of a school of magic. Thats not how it works lol

Saying there are no necromancers in dunmer culture is ignorant. What you wont find is dunmer defiling dunmer. Lesser races are fair game. A slave is a slave, dead or alive.

Your use of 'classes' lorewise is laughable at best. Classes arent a thing persay. Some find use as a profession or skill classification but nothing more. Nobody would say 'my class is XYZ'.

In lore, a necromancer is just as valid of a 'career' as 'mage'. They exist and tend far more towards the 'evil' alignment. Its the nature of the magical practice.

Iccotak

With the new Necromancer personality coming with Dragon Bones, an actual Necromancer skill line can't be far behind

Zordrage

Zordrage wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Yet another necromancer thread? Bah.

Yes, necromancers exist in TES lore. No, you will never play one in ESO, because they are always the antagonist, not the protagonist. Move on already.

i gonna sooo laugh on this when they release a necro class....
another pure necro hater...

Claudman

Lol the Necromancer thread regarding Necromancers being in the game got Necro'd by someone who wants to play a Necromancer when Necromancers get released.

Esorono

Claudman wrote: »

Lol the Necromancer thread regarding Necromancers being in the game got Necro'd by someone who wants to play a Necromancer when Necromancers get released.

He really is a true necromancer...Of threads.

gepe87

Necro class isn't a problem to lore defenders, but adding that class and do not changing previous dialogues is too much clumsy, incoherent and unwanted (like Vanus, Necromancers Arch-enemy and Psijiics will welcome you warmly even you being a Necro!)

Konstant_Tel_Necris

Xvorg wrote: »

Rupz_Koomar wrote: »

True Necros are not all bad.
Mannimarco does not represent all of US.
Ps: no new class plz ;_:

Mannimarco IS your god.

Sorry, but even as I like a lot necromancy in TES, here has no part.

On the contrary, Vamps are accepted because it is a way different kind of Vamp. Haven't you ask yourself why vamps cannot die under the sun? Why do Meredia accept the help of a possible vamp?

That's because ESO vamps are no vamps, are just bloodfiends without a soul (so they can't fo feral)

For first during ESO events Mannimarco is not god, he only try outscheming his patron and become a god and failed.
For second, we have good necromancers like Vastarie
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Legend_of_Vastarie
or Belron
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Lieutenant_Belron
I don't think they see Mannimarco as god or even worship Molag Bal.

Besides, there also Ideal Masters who will really get angry by Molag Bal interference with soul trapping.

Neoealth

Anyone who thinks that necromancy is lore breaking in an elder scrolls game is not really a true fan of tes. The lore is littered with necromancer events. Obviously.

Being able to play a "bad guy" as some seem to put it, is one of the fun choices players have made for years in tes games.

Nobody wants to play the virtuous noble knight every character. That is what makes tes games so good, you play as you want to play and have a lot of fun role playing.

Enodoc

Neoealth wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that necromancy is lore breaking in an elder scrolls game is not really a true fan of tes. The lore is littered with necromancer events. Obviously.

Being able to play a "bad guy" as some seem to put it, is one of the fun choices players have made for years in tes games.

Nobody wants to play the virtuous noble knight every character. That is what makes tes games so good, you play as you want to play and have a lot of fun role playing.

I don't think that in itself is the problem that some are seeing - it's more the way the story has been written, and how strange it will be to play through the anti-necromancer storylines as a necromancer when the dialogue does not take that into account. Kinda like playing through werewolf- or vampire-related quests as a werewolf or vampire where dialogue assumes you aren't one.

Bruccius

Enodoc wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that necromancy is lore breaking in an elder scrolls game is not really a true fan of tes. The lore is littered with necromancer events. Obviously.

Being able to play a "bad guy" as some seem to put it, is one of the fun choices players have made for years in tes games.

Nobody wants to play the virtuous noble knight every character. That is what makes tes games so good, you play as you want to play and have a lot of fun role playing.

I don't think that in itself is the problem that some are seeing - it's more the way the story has been written, and how strange it will be to play through the anti-necromancer storylines as a necromancer when the dialogue does not take that into account. Kinda like playing through werewolf- or vampire-related quests as a werewolf or vampire where dialogue assumes you aren't one.

Well, Necromancers generally are evil, so it makes sense for people to speak of them in disgust.

I think we all know one of those examples where people say ''I hate (insert group)!'', to which someone else responds with ''But what about (insert subgroup)?'' to which the first person responds with ''You know very well that I don't mean those, I mean the bad ones!''.

In general, Necromancers are evil, that's just a plain old fact. Individual ones, however, ehh... not always, at least.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Belegnole wrote: »

This isn't SWTOR, you don't get to play the Dadric side. You're not Molg Bal's minion so get used to it.

Unfortunately the game just wasn't made that way.

Personally I think it would have been a blast. But you know... things

Considering how the game WAS made necromancers make no sense to me at all. I'm mean, they're the bad guys right? Yes, the line is definitely blurry around the edges. But, it is very clear who the enemy is.

I’m probably the minority of this, but I would’ve loved that to be a thing in the game

Xvorg

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

This isn't SWTOR, you don't get to play the Dadric side. You're not Molg Bal's minion so get used to it.

Unfortunately the game just wasn't made that way.

Personally I think it would have been a blast. But you know... things

Considering how the game WAS made necromancers make no sense to me at all. I'm mean, they're the bad guys right? Yes, the line is definitely blurry around the edges. But, it is very clear who the enemy is.

I’m probably the minority of this, but I would’ve loved that to be a thing in the game

In terms of consistency, that would have been perfect.

But we have what we have, now it is time to make a witchhunter guild and bring down those necros

DeusOcha

This thread is funny in hindsight

Zhoyzu

the irony of a necrothread about necromancy....