ZOS: The Guild Store / Bank System is Terrible and needs Reconsideration

Apache_Kid

Imza wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

While we're at it can we fix our item deconstruction lists from jumping around everytime we deconstruct an item?

just use the "alphabetic order" ie: click "NAME" not the arrow on the left.....

EDIT: and don't click the magnifying glass..... which I believe is the default sort order now...

I was at my tables last night trying to do this as I didn't even know you could sort the decon list and I couldn't find a way to change the order. Maybe I can't do it on console? Or I'm just dumb and missed it.

Jade1986

I have been annoyed with the store system since its creation. Thank GOD for This Website

Peekachu99

kargen27 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Despite what some may say or believe, the ever growing popularity of Tamriel Trade Centre lends even more support for the playerbase's desire for a global trading/auction house.

The two are not even in the least bit related. You might have a case in stating the popularity supports the desire for a more intuitive search feature within the current system. Beyond that you have nothing.

The two are directly related. I guarantee that many of the strongest supporters and profiteers of/ off the current system use TTC or something similar. Indeed anyone who’s serious about trading, or shopping, does so. Why then is there so much pushback against this basic functionality being added to the game, which most sensible people use anyhow?

Peekachu99

kargen27 wrote: »

One_ofMany wrote: »

We need a Cental broker with way better search options. We can reserve/pay for the item then go to the Guild Vender to pick it up.

The bank sucks. Needs more tabs. Sort by type, sort by slot, sort by set etc..

The last thing we need is a central broker. Okay, maybe not the last, more lag would probably be last but central broker is near last.

With a central broker three people could manipulate prices on any rare item they wished. Do you not realize how easy (as example) it would be to monopolize items like perfect roe just by sitting on the central broker and... well you know the rest.

A lazy and poor argument, since people control prices through TTC and other addons anyway. Look at the collusion and synchronicity of pricing for any in demand material and you’ll see this is true. At best, vendors undercut each other by 100g. You’ll get more price disruption with an open market, since people are just throwing stuff out at whatever price they need to fill their pockets, and since there’s simply MORE inventory being moved when everyone has access.

Elsonso

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Its not happening because a minority that is taking advantage of the current system is on the forums brigading any negative thread about Guild Traders.

Meanwhile on PS4 just earlier this week you could find Breton Wrought Iron Chandiliers for 12,999 Gold. As of today only one person, spanning 4-5 Guild Traders is selling them and they have hiked the price up to 110k Gold.

But, but, but...according to the trading "gurus" on these forums, this can only happen with a global trading house. Have we encountered another dragon break? Or is this just a glitch in the matrix? Oh dear, I should've taken the BLUE pill.

It is a lot more work in the current system to accomplish that. With the global trading all one had to do was sit in the game running an addon that monitored the global store and be instantly informed of anyone trying to sell something like that Breton item. In some cases, the add-on would buy it for you and repost it at your price.

With the ESO system, a single player has to monitor 191 guild traders or a team of people (a guild) has to do it. Of course, not all guild traders are like the others, so not all of them need to be checked, but there are still quite a few.

So, in the global store, if that Breton item were to appear, within seconds it would be gone. Only people watching for that item at the time it was posted would even have a chance. By the time a human saw it and decided whether to buy it, it would be gone. Nay. The human would probably never see it at the original price. With ESO, there is a chance that someone can sell the Breton item to someone else before that person could come along and buy it so they can resell it at 110k.

So because it took a little longer that means its okay?

Yes. The traders don't prevent someone from trying to corner the market. That idea is wrong. It raises the bar to the point where a lot of people won't try.

Dawnblade

Guild store system is garbage IMO - too many restrictions (member limits in guilds, slot limits per player), too much running around when shopping (watching load screens is not engaging in the least), and the worst search system ever.

While I'd love to see a global server wide marketplace, the current system would be much less of an annoyance with a few simple changes.

Increase the number of items a player can list.

Increase the number of players in a guild.

Increase or move more traders to popular locations instead in in out of the way, no one is every going to find locations.

Add a text / keyword search with basic filters (such as known / unknown for motifs / recipes) and sorts (price, unit price, name, quality).

DoctorESO

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jaye63

DoctorESO wrote: »

Despite what some may say or believe, the ever growing popularity of Tamriel Trade Centre lends even more support for the playerbase's desire for a global trading/auction house.

No. More guild stores maybe but no. And this isnt even related to the OP- nice hijack

Back on topic: 480 items and I gotta scroll thru them all to find something? Add a search. LONG overdue.

dodgehopper_ESO

Bbsample197 wrote: »

what do you mean by it takes 10 mins to load the guild store? it only took me seconds to load every items on each stall, even on my potato rig, it can still load wayy faster and it wouldnt take even a min or two.

If I knew what was going on I would tell you but I assure you I'm not running a potato rig. The intermittent nature of the problem is part of what is even more annoying.

Glurin

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Despite what some may say or believe, the ever growing popularity of Tamriel Trade Centre lends even more support for the playerbase's desire for a global trading/auction house.

The two are not even in the least bit related. You might have a case in stating the popularity supports the desire for a more intuitive search feature within the current system. Beyond that you have nothing.

Have you seen the Tamriel Trade Centre website and looked at the details of the add-on? They emulate as best as they can a global trading house that allows people to see where items are for sale across Tamriel and for how much so people can find what they need and at the lowest price possible.

And as long as it stays the way it is I'm ok with it. It's basically like the classified section of a newspaper.

We don't need a centralized global AH. At most we just need some UI improvements. We've gone over this a thousand times already. AH ain't happening and that is a very good thing.

Its not happening because a minority that is taking advantage of the current system is on the forums brigading any negative thread about Guild Traders.

Meanwhile on PS4 just earlier this week you could find Breton Wrought Iron Chandiliers for 12,999 Gold. As of today only one person, spanning 4-5 Guild Traders is selling them and they have hiked the price up to 110k Gold.

But.....yeah only in an Auction House can someone corner the market and price gouge.

Oh, wow. 4-5 traders huh. Yeah, he's sure got that whole market cornered alright. /sarcasm.

You do know that there are well over a hundred traders, right? And that the guild trader system consists of more than Mournhold? Why do you want to make it easy for him to corner the market by condensing all of that into just one?

If you think 110k is price gouging, try 700k - a million. Because that's exactly what can and does happen under global AHs. Why? Because this guy is competing with fifty others doing the exact same thing and driving the price up.

TheDarkShadow

PC players have addons to help which searching so it's not that bad. But I feel sorry for console folks.

DoctorESO

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notimetocare

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

For sake of clarity I'm going to bullet list what bothers me. While I did rhetorically state that I understand why people would want a centralized guild store system, I only said that as a point to say if ZoS can't make these individual stores functional I'd rather they streamline it and be done with it. As I said before I was a proponent for all of the little guild store stalls.

Here's the key points I want to make:
*Load Times for Guild Banks are horrible - speed it up, speed it way up.
*Load Times for Guild Stores are horrible - speed it up, speed it way up.
*Inventory management is a nightmare - Do something about it last year. The game is growing increasingly less fun because of it. I am saying this as a subscriber. Give us armories in our homes. Give us some way to bank more of these items. I'd like to be able to actually enjoy and play around with the cool new gear that comes out in the game without having to delete five gear sets every patch. I'm tired of that. Please for goodness sake fix it. Do something, or stop making more gear sets. This is by the way why I ended up quitting Star Trek Online for all intents and purposes. Yes I'm still a lifetime member there but its killed my interest having to deal with the constant flurry of accounting and management. I don't load up a video game to be a maid or an accountant. (How do developers not understand this)

Load I'm sound like a personal problem. Either youar console player or you have a shity PC. At no point in this game are you ever forced to use a guild store. You can advertise in chat to sell and buy. Or if you just need to buy you can farm yourself

notimetocare

Peekachu99 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

One_ofMany wrote: »

We need a Cental broker with way better search options. We can reserve/pay for the item then go to the Guild Vender to pick it up.

The bank sucks. Needs more tabs. Sort by type, sort by slot, sort by set etc..

The last thing we need is a central broker. Okay, maybe not the last, more lag would probably be last but central broker is near last.

With a central broker three people could manipulate prices on any rare item they wished. Do you not realize how easy (as example) it would be to monopolize items like perfect roe just by sitting on the central broker and... well you know the rest.

A lazy and poor argument, since people control prices through TTC and other addons anyway. Look at the collusion and synchronicity of pricing for any in demand material and you’ll see this is true. At best, vendors undercut each other by 100g. You’ll get more price disruption with an open market, since people are just throwing stuff out at whatever price they need to fill their pockets, and since there’s simply MORE inventory being moved when everyone has access.

Do you have any experience with auction houses in other games? It is far easier to manipulate the market there and then on ESO even with TTC

Korah_Eaglecry

lordrichter wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Its not happening because a minority that is taking advantage of the current system is on the forums brigading any negative thread about Guild Traders.

Meanwhile on PS4 just earlier this week you could find Breton Wrought Iron Chandiliers for 12,999 Gold. As of today only one person, spanning 4-5 Guild Traders is selling them and they have hiked the price up to 110k Gold.

But, but, but...according to the trading "gurus" on these forums, this can only happen with a global trading house. Have we encountered another dragon break? Or is this just a glitch in the matrix? Oh dear, I should've taken the BLUE pill.

It is a lot more work in the current system to accomplish that. With the global trading all one had to do was sit in the game running an addon that monitored the global store and be instantly informed of anyone trying to sell something like that Breton item. In some cases, the add-on would buy it for you and repost it at your price.

With the ESO system, a single player has to monitor 191 guild traders or a team of people (a guild) has to do it. Of course, not all guild traders are like the others, so not all of them need to be checked, but there are still quite a few.

So, in the global store, if that Breton item were to appear, within seconds it would be gone. Only people watching for that item at the time it was posted would even have a chance. By the time a human saw it and decided whether to buy it, it would be gone. Nay. The human would probably never see it at the original price. With ESO, there is a chance that someone can sell the Breton item to someone else before that person could come along and buy it so they can resell it at 110k.

So because it took a little longer that means its okay?

Yes. The traders don't prevent someone from trying to corner the market. That idea is wrong. It raises the bar to the point where a lot of people won't try.

Thats an opinion. And a terribly formed one at that.

Korah_Eaglecry

Glurin wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Despite what some may say or believe, the ever growing popularity of Tamriel Trade Centre lends even more support for the playerbase's desire for a global trading/auction house.

The two are not even in the least bit related. You might have a case in stating the popularity supports the desire for a more intuitive search feature within the current system. Beyond that you have nothing.

Have you seen the Tamriel Trade Centre website and looked at the details of the add-on? They emulate as best as they can a global trading house that allows people to see where items are for sale across Tamriel and for how much so people can find what they need and at the lowest price possible.

And as long as it stays the way it is I'm ok with it. It's basically like the classified section of a newspaper.

We don't need a centralized global AH. At most we just need some UI improvements. We've gone over this a thousand times already. AH ain't happening and that is a very good thing.

Its not happening because a minority that is taking advantage of the current system is on the forums brigading any negative thread about Guild Traders.

Meanwhile on PS4 just earlier this week you could find Breton Wrought Iron Chandiliers for 12,999 Gold. As of today only one person, spanning 4-5 Guild Traders is selling them and they have hiked the price up to 110k Gold.

But.....yeah only in an Auction House can someone corner the market and price gouge.

Oh, wow. 4-5 traders huh. Yeah, he's sure got that whole market cornered alright. /sarcasm.

You do know that there are well over a hundred traders, right? And that the guild trader system consists of more than Mournhold? Why do you want to make it easy for him to corner the market by condensing all of that into just one?

If you think 110k is price gouging, try 700k - a million. Because that's exactly what can and does happen under global AHs. Why? Because this guy is competing with fifty others doing the exact same thing and driving the price up.

4-5 Guilds all in the Major Hubs that matter. Not only that but there is no longer any of those chandiliers available on the market. If you dont think a 750% increase in asking price isnt price gouging then you dont understand the first thing about what youre talking about.

kargen27

Peekachu99 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Despite what some may say or believe, the ever growing popularity of Tamriel Trade Centre lends even more support for the playerbase's desire for a global trading/auction house.

The two are not even in the least bit related. You might have a case in stating the popularity supports the desire for a more intuitive search feature within the current system. Beyond that you have nothing.

The two are directly related. I guarantee that many of the strongest supporters and profiteers of/ off the current system use TTC or something similar. Indeed anyone who’s serious about trading, or shopping, does so. Why then is there so much pushback against this basic functionality being added to the game, which most sensible people use anyhow?

There isn't push back against some of that functionality being placed in the game. There is push back against a central auction sight. People want a search feature. That doesn't equate to them wanting a central auction house.

Dapper Dinosaur

I've given up hope that they're ever going to fix it. We've been hounding them for literally years to fix this stuff, and they haven't even put it on their calendar update for 2018.

By the time they take the tiny amount of time to fix this issue, Soul Calibur 6 will have come out and I'll be long gone.

jaye63

gouging, market cornering... blah blah blah....

Go to the TTC website and list what you're looking for by lowest price. It isnt the game that causes these things. It's TTC. However, TTC website makes having your guild in one of the high traffic places and therefore having to bid ridiculously high to keep it, a pointless thing.

Add more stores.

FearlessOne_2014

Lol another thread on this subject. Quite honestly if the guild traders system in ESO is a deal breaker for you. Then go play a different MMO where you don't have to put up with it.

My recommendations are BDO, and Eve Online. Outside of ESO those two are the last decent MMOs with PvP in them that is supported by their dev teams.

As others have stated If you are on PC then use TTC, MM, Awesome Guild Store, and all of the Advance Filters addons to deal with in my opinion is a awful Trader system that don't add anything to the gameplay. And just makes buyers frustrated, and rich players that no life the system even more rich.

The traders system is one of the worst I've seen in my 16 years of PC MMO gaming. However this trading system is here to stay and no ZOS will not even bother refining it. Instead ZOS will make players rely on Addons, if you are on PC. If you are on console, well tough luck go buy a PC.

Dawnblade

LOL at the scare-mongers that come running with the 'a global trade system would let one player corner the market on everything and jack prices up so no one could afford anything' nonsense every time someone mentions 'AH'.

If that were the case, I wouldn't be able to buy anything without getting ripped off in WoW or going bankrupt - and I have no problem buying goods at market rates nor selling my goods at the same (and other than very low volume items, prices are stable with little variance - higher when content is new, trending lower as it ages).

Of course it helps that I only play on high pop servers (low pop servers can have pricing issues due to lack of supply) - but I'd hope each megaserver in ESO is large enough to supply a functional marketplace (and if it isn't, the game has bigger issues).

It also helps that the AH in WoW is open to all, with no restrictions on the number of items listed - unlike the limits (30 items per player / 500 players per store) on guild stores, which only serves to constrain supply in ESO.

But again, while I'd love to see a global marketplace - I just don't think the game / servers can support one - not that ZOS has done some serious studying of the issues and believes the store system is better (it is only better in minimizing the database load on the servers and adding a giant time sink to the game).

But I do think they owe it to the player base (especially those stuck on consoles without add-ons) to provide simple functionality such as text search and basic sort and filter options - as well as they need to look at increasing the listing limits (given the ridiculous number of items in ESO, 30 slots is really low).

Taysa

I have yet to hear a valid argument against a centralized auction house.

Cpt_Teemo

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

PC players have addons to help which searching so it's not that bad. But I feel sorry for console folks.

I feel sorry for everyone the current system was different but its a failure tbh, an Auction house is best for any standard MMO

Cpt_Teemo

Taysa wrote: »

I have yet to hear a valid argument against a centralized auction house.

No argument from me, basically every MMO out there besides ESO has a centralized AH economy and they work

kargen27

Dawnblade wrote: »

LOL at the scare-mongers that come running with the 'a global trade system would let one player corner the market on everything and jack prices up so no one could afford anything' nonsense every time someone mentions 'AH'.

If that were the case, I wouldn't be able to buy anything without getting ripped off in WoW or going bankrupt - and I have no problem buying goods at market rates nor selling my goods at the same (and other than very low volume items, prices are stable with little variance - higher when content is new, trending lower as it ages).

Of course it helps that I only play on high pop servers (low pop servers can have pricing issues due to lack of supply) - but I'd hope each megaserver in ESO is large enough to supply a functional marketplace (and if it isn't, the game has bigger issues).

It also helps that the AH in WoW is open to all, with no restrictions on the number of items listed - unlike the limits (30 items per player / 500 players per store) on guild stores, which only serves to constrain supply in ESO.

But again, while I'd love to see a global marketplace - I just don't think the game / servers can support one - not that ZOS has done some serious studying of the issues and believes the store system is better (it is only better in minimizing the database load on the servers and adding a giant time sink to the game).

But I do think they owe it to the player base (especially those stuck on consoles without add-ons) to provide simple functionality such as text search and basic sort and filter options - as well as they need to look at increasing the listing limits (given the ridiculous number of items in ESO, 30 slots is really low).

Last time someone mentioned WoW as an example I hopped over to a forum dedicated to WoW and first page had several complaints about people taking advantage of the auction house to corner the market on whatever it was the people wanted. With a central auction house three people could easily grab any perfect roe (as example) listed and jack the price to whatever they wanted.

Taysa

kargen27 wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

LOL at the scare-mongers that come running with the 'a global trade system would let one player corner the market on everything and jack prices up so no one could afford anything' nonsense every time someone mentions 'AH'.

If that were the case, I wouldn't be able to buy anything without getting ripped off in WoW or going bankrupt - and I have no problem buying goods at market rates nor selling my goods at the same (and other than very low volume items, prices are stable with little variance - higher when content is new, trending lower as it ages).

Of course it helps that I only play on high pop servers (low pop servers can have pricing issues due to lack of supply) - but I'd hope each megaserver in ESO is large enough to supply a functional marketplace (and if it isn't, the game has bigger issues).

It also helps that the AH in WoW is open to all, with no restrictions on the number of items listed - unlike the limits (30 items per player / 500 players per store) on guild stores, which only serves to constrain supply in ESO.

But again, while I'd love to see a global marketplace - I just don't think the game / servers can support one - not that ZOS has done some serious studying of the issues and believes the store system is better (it is only better in minimizing the database load on the servers and adding a giant time sink to the game).

But I do think they owe it to the player base (especially those stuck on consoles without add-ons) to provide simple functionality such as text search and basic sort and filter options - as well as they need to look at increasing the listing limits (given the ridiculous number of items in ESO, 30 slots is really low).

Last time someone mentioned WoW as an example I hopped over to a forum dedicated to WoW and first page had several complaints about people taking advantage of the auction house to corner the market on whatever it was the people wanted. With a central auction house three people could easily grab any perfect roe (as example) listed and jack the price to whatever they wanted.

You going to cite that source or just make a blanket remark and expect everyone to believe you?

ookami007

kargen27 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Despite what some may say or believe, the ever growing popularity of Tamriel Trade Centre lends even more support for the playerbase's desire for a global trading/auction house.

The two are not even in the least bit related. You might have a case in stating the popularity supports the desire for a more intuitive search feature within the current system. Beyond that you have nothing.

Your invalidation of his argument is invalid in itself. TTC is basically a global trading/auction house. Yes, you still have to go to the location and it has the limitations inherent in a 3rd party add-on, but it demonstrates that people want a single place they can go to find items scattered throughout the world.... it is not, as you state, "a more intuitive search feature". That description doesn't do TTC justice, nor does it do the wants of the community justice.

ookami007

zaria wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Despite what some may say or believe, the ever growing popularity of Tamriel Trade Centre lends even more support for the playerbase's desire for a global trading/auction house.

The two are not even in the least bit related. You might have a case in stating the popularity supports the desire for a more intuitive search feature within the current system. Beyond that you have nothing.

Have you seen the Tamriel Trade Centre website and looked at the details of the add-on? They emulate as best as they can a global trading house that allows people to see where items are for sale across Tamriel and for how much so people can find what they need and at the lowest price possible.

No its more like an sort of price barometer web page. It only list prices offered so you get some under priced stuff from players don't knowing the value and lots of overpriced one, the under priced one is gone then you visit the store.

The real issue with an action house in ESO is the race to the bottom.
Compare ESO to WOW, ESO has just 6 servers note hundred like in WOW. Now WOW has more players but not very many times say 3-5. Now you also get lots of loot in ESO compared to wow.

You have limited slots in an auction system say 30-50 so you need to move items as fast as they come in, easiest way to do this is to price your item 1 gold cheaper than the cheapest in list, all the 1000 other trying to sell the item does the same
Note that you have to sell item to free up slots. In short you get an race to the bottom everything except very rare stuff there the demand is larger than the supply, here you can also afford to sit on the item for some time.

Your post is difficult to understand. While you make some interesting points, you are mistaken in your initial conclusion. TTC's most BASIC feature is as a "price barometer page", but that is not it's only function - nor it's most useful. What MANY people use it for - myself included - is to FIND items. Sure, it make take going to the first 10 or so vendors listed (if you sort by lowest price) to find the item you want but that's because it's a 3rd party addon and updates are completely dependent on the person running the addon. I think you might be thinking of MM, which is a price barometer with no other real functionality.

If you want to know what they need to do, simply combine TTC's global search function with Awesome Guild Stores more robust search criteria/sorting.

I think even if people had to travel to the actual vendor, they'd still find it infinitely easier if they can do global searches and granular search capabilities.

DoctorESO

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Dracofyre

EQ2 and Neverwinter both have auction search format, and ESO has none and limited vendors for guilds.
i never understood why behind those limited vendor access, are they using low end outdated tech or not skilled enough to make quick search format? it really need major overhaul to make searching easier.