The logic of guards

bloodthirstyvampire

What Can't pay the bounty, oh ok that's fine I guess i'll just kill you and take gold from your dead body, don't worry about the rest you can pay it later, what jail whats that some kinda food,anyway its just a 2 gold bounty I can just kill you its ok.
It doesn't bother me but it is a rather interesting system

MornaBaine

It's actually a really silly system. Let's not forget the unkillable guards.

And...

"You stole a turnip??? Die criminal scum!"
"You're a werewolf running through town snarling and roaring? You're clearly a vampire and look more like a zombie? Nah, go ahead it's fine. We're super open minded here."

Aisle9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XR6dsy7ATE

iiYuki

It is a stupid system, especially when you can pay the fine, or die though when you die you still have to pay the fine, if you dont have enough money on your character, you can't go to your bank because you will be killed along the way. I wish they could take them out of the bank so I dont have to skulk off to my house and log out or make it halfway across the map to a outlaws refuge.

LadyAstrum

Some jail-time would be fitting in some cases.

NordSwordnBoard

"Learn to swim"

ThePrinceOfBargains

I’ve said this for the longest time, but still having to pay the fine when you die is BS. They need to change that. Taking stolen items is one thing, but I should not still be losing money after dying.

Apache_Kid

LadyAstrum wrote: »

Some jail-time would be fitting in some cases.

You can miss me with that. I do not want to spend any time sitting in a jail cell. The current system is fine.

kypranb14_ESO

"I'm going to live forever, or die trying." Pretty much sums up what i think about guards in this game. lol

madchuska83

Defeats daedric princes in single combat...

...killed by city guard.

Jarryzzt

1. If there were no fine on death, then people wouldn't have an incentive to run away from a guard. Oh, just kill me and I rez and run away in my spirit form, tra-la-la. Please.

2. Also, if there were no fine on death people would have little incentive not to go berserk in town squares, crowded banks, et cetera. As is, if you do, your fine will probably escalate into the thousands pretty quickly (a routine single-target assassination once had me in the 2k gold range because of the number of unintended witnesses). Never mind investing in fine-reducing passives or "Clemency" from the Thieves' Guild line.

3. The concept of a fine on death is also a convenient shorthand for being "caught" and taken to "jail" - without costing the player time (or having them respawn in a different location).

Oh, but otherwise the system makes absolutely no sense, the designers are rhesus monkeys trying to randomly type out Shakespeare, et cetera. Also, using brain cells to figure out designer motives in lieu of yelling on the forums is overrated. As are punctuation marks, apparently...

Rouven

We all know what you did across the land across all people.

But don't worry, we'll forget about it in ten minutes.

Taleof2Cities

Is it a stupid system?

Or, are players simply bad at thieving?

Bryanonymous

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

"Learn to swim"

This. So much this. As dumb as the guards are, let’s not forget that to escape crocodiles, one merely needs to swim out about 3 feet into water. Apparently, crocodiles are afraid of water.

Invincible guards is such a lazy way to enforce the peace. Would be much more fun if they were like world bosses. At least the alternative would give you a chance.

kargen27

Bryanonymous wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

"Learn to swim"

This. So much this. As dumb as the guards are, let’s not forget that to escape crocodiles, one merely needs to swim out about 3 feet into water. Apparently, crocodiles are afraid of water.

Invincible guards is such a lazy way to enforce the peace. Would be much more fun if they were like world bosses. At least the alternative would give you a chance.

While we are dreaming maybe make the guards vulnerable but if you get attacked by a guard other players can jump in and fight with the guard. The players that defended the guard then get to split your bounty among themselves. No jumping in against the guard though because we don't want massive brawls breaking out in the city. That would just be silly.

dodgehopper_ESO

It would actually be cool if they incarcerated you - and it makes more sense than killing a Vestige, who can easily just respawn at the next wayshrine and pay off some criminal guards to wipe out the theft.

Another huge logical leap that has bothered me is why do the different factions honor criminality from other factions? If you are an AD hero and you go on a stealing spree in Ebonheart pact, wouldn't the AD still love you? You're doing the Queens good work by robbing and pillaging the enemy. I find this to be a logical failing that is equally annoying if not more so.

kargen27

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

It would actually be cool if they incarcerated you - and it makes more sense than killing a Vestige, who can easily just respawn at the next wayshrine and pay off some criminal guards to wipe out the theft.

Another huge logical leap that has bothered me is why do the different factions honor criminality from other factions? If you are an AD hero and you go on a stealing spree in Ebonheart pact, wouldn't the AD still love you? You're doing the Queens good work by robbing and pillaging the enemy. I find this to be a logical failing that is equally annoying if not more so.

Are you not the one that ran all over hell and the other half of Grahtwood trying to unite the alliances? Maybe they feel betrayed?

Incarceration might be logical but as game play goes it would be a bit tedious. People hate waiting to queue into a dungeon and they can run around and do things while that is happening. Standing in a cell yelling at guards for 15 minutes will really set people off.

TheShadowScout

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's actually a really silly system. Let's not forget the unkillable guards.

And...

"You stole a turnip??? Die criminal scum!"

Hey, that's an elder scrolls classic!

MornaBaine wrote: »

"You're a werewolf running through town snarling and roaring? You're clearly a vampire and look more like a zombie? Nah, go ahead it's fine. We're super open minded here."

...something that kept vexing me ever since we got the justice system, true. And I dearly wish the guards would consider any transformed werewolf or revealed vampire "kill on sight" (with a detection chance for vampires dependent on vampirism stage and distance)

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

It would actually be cool if they incarcerated you - and it makes more sense than killing a Vestige, who can easily just respawn at the next wayshrine and pay off some criminal guards to wipe out the theft.

Another huge logical leap that has bothered me is why do the different factions honor criminality from other factions? If you are an AD hero and you go on a stealing spree in Ebonheart pact, wouldn't the AD still love you? You're doing the Queens good work by robbing and pillaging the enemy. I find this to be a logical failing that is equally annoying if not more so.

...and all those are why I want more justice in Tamriel! Better Justice!! Great Justice!!! https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice

bloodthirstyvampire

Well you see am a vampire, a blood thirsty vampire and sometimes I need a drink and it gets a little out of control, sometimes I binge on npcs all over the city I mean just yesterday I made a 30k bounty not killing just drinking.

TheShadowScout

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Well you see am a vampire, a blood thirsty vampire and sometimes I need a drink and it gets a little out of control, sometimes I binge on npcs all over the city I mean just yesterday I made a 30k bounty not killing just drinking.

...and that is how the guards ought to treat bloods8ucking fiends! Not like "Oh, just an adventurer with an additional skill line", but as monsters likely to wipe out a small town on a whim when they get a little peckish...

While vampires ought to have some ability to masquerade as mortal, and incentive from the above change in guard attitide, as to not end up staked by the town guard.

Oh, well. Maybe someday they will take a look at this kind of thing...

Apache_Kid

The fact that people are suggesting JAIL TIME in a video game is mind-blowing to me. Will it be like a time-out? Imagine thinking anyone wants to spend their limited play-time sitting inside of a virtual 4x4 cell. What purpose would this serve other than to absolutely waste the time of players who are trying to up legerdmain skills or get the crime acheivments? This game has more than enough time-sinks already without forcibly imprisoning the player-base and stopping them from playing for a set amount of time.

DoctorESO

-

Apache_Kid

DoctorESO wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

The fact that people are suggesting JAIL TIME in a video game is mind-blowing to me. Will it be like a time-out? Imagine thinking anyone wants to spend their limited play-time sitting inside of a virtual 4x4 cell. What purpose would this serve other than to absolutely waste the time of players who are trying to up legerdmain skills or get the crime acheivments? This game has more than enough time-sinks already without forcibly imprisoning the player-base and stopping them from playing for a set amount of time.

There's an ongoing discussion about that here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice

Wow i just read OP in that thread. While creative all of that sounds absolutely terrible for implementation. A justice system like that would cause me to quit the game.

Ackwalan

Sure the guards will kill you for stealing a carrot, but you can also pull a scrape of paper out of your pocket and write own pardon.

Merlin13KAGL

Rouven wrote: »

We all know what you did across the land across all people.

But don't worry, we'll forget about it in ten minutes.

@Rouven as they step over the four dead bodies to confront you about a 'stolen' apple.

#GuardPriorities

SelfTherapy

Would be pretty neat if you could kinda control the guards in cyrodiil, your guild owns a keep, possibly have a option to make the guards arm the walls ect ect. But that's just me having a big imagination.

CardboardedBox

"Oh, what's that? You accidentally stole an apple from behind a guild trader because of the horrible placement? Whelp, looks like you gotta die now! Good luck fighting back because, yeah, im invincible. Gitgud."


-Town guard

Eddyble

Ackwalan wrote: »

Sure the guards will kill you for stealing a carrot, but you can also pull a scrape of paper out of your pocket and write own pardon.

Unless they see you writing and then they still come to kill you.

For reference, I once clicked on the pardon when I didn't have a bounty and it caused me to get a bounty. I was in the middle of town and almost got killed by a couple guards. I don't recall if it was, but perhaps this was due to the pardon still being "stolen?"

Nestor

There has never been a Kill On Site by a guard for stealing a food item. Pay the 46 gold you accrue and play on. Getting killed for trying to avoid paying 46 gold is stupid. If your running around with a huge sack of stolen items, and then do risky activities in a place where you can't escape from the guards is all on you.

Are there a some places in the game where you can accidentally grab an item when trying to talk to a merchant? Yes, but all you have to do is look at the heads of the NPCs, not their waists and that is not a problem. Or, just be more careful. Even if you nick an item and the non guard NPCs go hostile, let them kill you. You don't lose a thing gold or stolen loot wise if that happens, only if a guard kills you because your not willing to pay the fine.

There is nothing wrong with the Guards in this game that a little care and foresight cannot overcome.

TheShadowScout

Apache_Kid wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

The fact that people are suggesting JAIL TIME in a video game is mind-blowing to me. Will it be like a time-out? Imagine thinking anyone wants to spend their limited play-time sitting inside of a virtual 4x4 cell. What purpose would this serve other than to absolutely waste the time of players who are trying to up legerdmain skills or get the crime acheivments? This game has more than enough time-sinks already without forcibly imprisoning the player-base and stopping them from playing for a set amount of time.

There's an ongoing discussion about that here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice

Wow i just read OP in that thread. While creative all of that sounds absolutely terrible for implementation. A justice system like that would cause me to quit the game.

The point was to make people -care- about the justice system. I guess at that, the idea works pretty well. Since many people clearly don't really care about the "pittance of gold" fines or the occasional respawn... (unless they just nicked something nifty before getting caught)

Not that I am surprised about all those "What, changes to make us actually -care- about the consequences when getting seen stealing stuff and murdering NPCs? Terrible! I'd quit..."

But I guess that's a discussion for that thread

Apache_Kid

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

The fact that people are suggesting JAIL TIME in a video game is mind-blowing to me. Will it be like a time-out? Imagine thinking anyone wants to spend their limited play-time sitting inside of a virtual 4x4 cell. What purpose would this serve other than to absolutely waste the time of players who are trying to up legerdmain skills or get the crime acheivments? This game has more than enough time-sinks already without forcibly imprisoning the player-base and stopping them from playing for a set amount of time.

There's an ongoing discussion about that here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice

Wow i just read OP in that thread. While creative all of that sounds absolutely terrible for implementation. A justice system like that would cause me to quit the game.

The point was to make people -care- about the justice system. I guess at that, the idea works pretty well. Since many people clearly don't really care about the "pittance of gold" fines or the occasional respawn... (unless they just nicked something nifty before getting caught)

Not that I am surprised about all those "What, changes to make us actually -care- about the consequences when getting seen stealing stuff and murdering NPCs? Terrible! I'd quit..."

But I guess that's a discussion for that thread

But why should the consequences be so high when the rewards are so low? The idea is interesting and creative so I applaud you for coming up with the whole thing and it's an entertaining read but I'm trying to work towards fencing 1,000,000 worth of goods as an acheivments and it's not fun and taking really long. If I had to deal with super guards or jail time it would take literally forever. The justice system in this game Is always going to be a side thought and it should probably just be left as such.