Will PvP ever get an update?

Jade1986

VaranisArano wrote: »

No, the storyline will probably not progress. For one thing, the current state of Battlegrounds and the Imperial City indicate that the population for new sustainable PVP DLC is simply not there. Second, its far, far easier for ZOS to develop more battleground maps and modes than it is to make fundamental changes to how Cyrodiil functions as a map.

As for all the forts looking the same, well, those are Imperial forts because Cyrodiil is the heartland of the Empire. At most, you could play with Colovian and Nibenese construction, though these forts have the generic appearance they also had in Oblivion. However, you do see appropriate differences in the towns, with Cheydinhal being very Imperial stone construction, Cropsford being an Imperial farming village, Bruma being a much more nordic looking village in accordance with its portrayal in Oblivion, and so on.

For what they are looking to update in PVP, you can look at their December combat update: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386186/monthly-combat-update-december-2017/p1

This is why I was against battlegrounds to begin with. Its the typical route mmo devs take.

• Introduce Open world AvA
• Time passes, AvA gets a few updates here and there
• Miniscule minority demands Small Scale
• Small scale becomes the focus because it is easier to develop
• AvA gets ignored for the rest of time.

Its a pity really.

Jade1986

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Completely new aspects being added to pvp is unlikely to happen simply because the demand is not there. If more people would pvp, say every campaign is always poplocked during prime time, then this could be something that would happen, but not right now.

The strategy would most likely continue to be to introduce various things to incentivize people to go pvp. They have attempted and kinda failed doing so with flower satchels, gold jewlery for tel var, the flags in districts (this was by far the laziest attempt to date imo), the golden, the sets sold at the three towns, the overworld boxes, and the battleground's game modes. BG's seemed like alot of thought and work went into them to try and create something that would be different and interesting, but it sort of showed the lack of understanding of the PvP playerbase. I think if they changed BG's to be only deathmatch (no sigil) with two different queues, one with teams and the other free for all more of the I only pvp crowd would be interested in it. Then they could continue to come up with different arenas with various layouts and maybe it would be pretty fun.

The other big thing I think pvp in general lacks is an accurate scoring system for how effective a player is. That being said, I'm not sure a great scoring system could be implemented because of all the variables that would go into it. For example, let's say you play in a group and you utilize a support role where you basically just cc, snare, and debuff your opponets so your team can focus on kills, or maybe you are simply a healer. How do you accurately measure what you bring to the table? Even if it's just based off of total heals if the player just spams breath of life and literally does nothing else they are sure to score relatively high, even though they may not have exactly been good or effective. It's kinda like bragging about having 20 kills when you're a mag sorc, or having over 800k damage on a magic dk, numbers look nice to some but it doesn't necessarily mean something. That is the ultimate challenge for pvp I believe, because this could draw in more competitive pvp players and essentially make the game more popular in general.

The demand is not there because ZoS hasnt added anything to it in years. Its cause and effect. Why should people stay when they are treated like the unwanted step child?

Kalante

Voxicity wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Your bone was battlegrounds.

1) Stupid gamemodes
2) Locked behind DLC paywall
3) No decent rewards

For these reasons, as a primarily PvP player, I barely ever touch BG's. They are more of a toy for casual players to get a taste of PvP (and most likely hate it because of how awful the perma block meta is)

i don't even have bg's nor will i ever get them because balance reasons.

VaranisArano

Rainraven wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Rainraven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

For one thing, the current state of Battlegrounds and the Imperial City indicate that the population for new sustainable PVP DLC is simply not there.

Oh, is that what they indicate?

Yes. Do you not agree?

Is imperial city constantly full of players? Are the leaderboards for BG's competitive enough to where you basically have to play all day every day to get on it?

I don't disagree the population is down - way down. Is it down because people don't want to PVP though?

BGs were welcomed with great enthusiasm. The problem is - for many PVPers anyway - they suck. "Oh well I guess nobody wants to PVP," is not the correct conclusion to draw.

I see your point that the population of PVPers is still there. Heck, I play regularly in Cyrodiil, I know there's a fairly large population of PVPers in Cyrodiil 24/7. I also accept your point that there's plenty of players willing to do Battlegrounds, and would probably be more if ZOS would make certain adjustments.

Certain adjustments like removing Battlegrounds from the Morrowind paywall, offer no CP and CP options, figuring out a ranking system and, whatever changes need to be made and, and, and...

Or Imperial City, wherein outside of those few hardy souls who enjoy Tel Var farming and the few PVP players willing to wait around for a few fleeting moments of small scale PVP, are only bust during the two-week anniversary event...

And so I say, in my original point, that there is not a population that can sustain a new PVP DLC. Perhaps updates to the existing ones, but not another PVP DLC.

The style of the Imperial City DLC, with mingled PVP and PVE has been steadily failing. We can argue about its glory days, for certainly it was once glorious, and we can argue about how to make it great again beyond two weeks of the year, but more the vast majority of the year, its PVP is the palest shade of that which happens every night in Cyrodiil. There are certainly players that love it, but the Imperial City DLC does not have a sustainable population. Certainly not a population that demonstrates a thriving demand for another DLC made in its image.

Consider Battlegrounds. Battlegrounds has the possibility of that population. Certainly, demand for a small-scale-no-zergs battlefield. But as we all know, the population of Battlegrounds is really those players willing to put up with ZOS' decisions. First No CP, then CP. No ability to choose the game mode, no ranking between randoms and premades, who's willing to put up with being smashed by a premade again and again, who's willing to deal with the Battlegrounds meta again and again (currently tanks, proc sets before that), oh and who can forget, willing to buy Morrowind in the first place. Except that ZOS can't and won't change those decisions. They won't cut Battlegrounds from Morrowind - they'd have to admit that the "Chapter" was a money grab. They won't let players choose modes - they'd have to admit that most players prefer deathmatch. And they won't balance the meta because what's unbalanced in a 4v4v4 is generally pretty well balanced for the much, much more populated Cyrodiil where players run in groups of 2 to 24 to faction stacks. So even Battlegrounds, though it has a fairly interested population, doesn't have enough of a population willing to put up with ZOS' decisions to avoid certain problems like a defined repetitive meta and recurring premades that become annoying, driving off other players and perpetuating the population problem.

Cyrodiil, on the other hand, has only three problems. One, technical problems. Most players would be willing to bear up with a lot, if only they could play the game without lag and other technical server difficulties. For the most part, that's all on ZOS. Two, balance issues, which again is on ZOS. The playerbase itself disagrees tremendously on what is and what isn't balanced, so ZOS has to handle that and they don't exactly move fast. Three, player boredom. Cyrodiil has been going on for nearly the entirety of the game's history and while the battles are always different, the war generally develops along the same lines. Players get bored, players move on. At least Cyrodiil has far more content than Imperial City and Battlegrounds. However, Cyrodiil does have a sustainable population (as long as ZOS closes non-competitive campaigns) and has maintained that population consistently over multiple game modes in the different campaigns. So its problems, such as they are, have not crippled Cyrodiil, unlike the desertion of the Imperial City and the fracturing of the Battlegrounds population by ZOS' choices.

Ultimately, neither of the two new additions to PVP, Imperial City and Battlegrounds, has enough of a sustainable population that could lead ZOS to believe that a third additional DLC focused on PVP could be sustainable. Battlegrounds has driven portions of its likely players away all along with its poor decisions that then create further problems, driving players away again. A larger population would help those problems, but because of the problems, there isn't a higher population. Imperial City has lost huge swaths of its population outside of the anniversary events and would need huge updates to bring it in line with current Cyrodiil combat or revitalize objectives in the city.

In short, both Battlegrounds and Imperial City are so underused compared to what they could have been that its hard to see ZOS thinking there's a sustainable demand for a third PVP DLC. Both Battlegrounds and Imperial City could be improved and thus might see better use by players, certainly. But why would ZOS work on a new PVP mode when two out of the three they have are floundering because the player-base is not playing those PVP modes as much as ZOS could hope?

Hurtfan

A new map would rock...even put in some city warfare. Hiding in buildings and such.

VaranisArano

Hurtfan wrote: »

A new map would rock...even put in some city warfare. Hiding in buildings and such.

Try the Imperial City. There's an entire city to play around in, tons of buildings to hide in...If only you can get other PVPers to come join you so you can actually get a decent fight without waiting forever.

Or the towns in Cyrodiil. You can hide in and around those buildings all day! (And in PC/NA Vivec you'll find regular fights in 1 town, Bruma. The others are ghost towns for PVP.)

See, that's the problem we all face. ZOS already has quite a bit of options available for PVP, but not enough players interested in ALL of those options. The Imperial City is ideal for what you just described - but there's not a sustainable population outside of the two weeks of the anniversary event unless you really, really, like patiently waiting for small-scale PVP and ganking. The PVE towns in Cyrodiil can also be excellent - Bruma sees regular fighting between EP and DC in a competitive campaign - but not all the time.

Hurtfan

yes, maybe IC, but there are roaming mobs everywhere right?

VaranisArano

Hurtfan wrote: »

yes, maybe IC, but there are roaming mobs everywhere right?

Yes, the Imperial City is a blend of PVE and PVP. The districts and sewers have a lot of small mobs and minibosses, plus the one main boss and several wandering sewer bosses.

It's still the best place for city-based PVP. The map is excellent for it and the mobs are fairly easily dispatched, at least as long as you don't get ganked while doing it. When the Imperial City is full of players during the two-week anniversary event, the city's potential for small-scale PVP in tight urban quarters is fully realized and its a ton of fun. Even when the City is largely empty for the rest of the year, there's still plenty of opportunity for patiently waiting and ganking, or making your own fights with a small group as long as you don't mind killing the NPC mobs for Tel Var.

James-Wayne

Yes its coming! The main story talks about a great war coming and when this war comes Cyrodiil will be the next big chapter and transform the entire pvp area!

You heard it here first!

tinythinker

HairyFairy wrote: »

yes but the factions are the ones who own these forts, not the imperials. it would be a lot more interesting to take an orcish fortress once in a while or something!

The story won't progress much because this is a theme park game rather than a sandbox. One way to have *some* advancement would be to attach a new addition to the story via something like a PvP trial in Cyrodiil.

It is also true that the keeps all look the same because they are imperial, but honestly, since we keep rebuilding them they could have some faction-specific changes of appearance and certainly the siege weapons could be re-skinned by faction.

There could also be a new PvP zone on some island that the three alliances are fighting over, but I don't see ZOS looking to add another PvP zone anytime soon (or, well, ever).

Betsararie

Jade1986 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

No, the storyline will probably not progress. For one thing, the current state of Battlegrounds and the Imperial City indicate that the population for new sustainable PVP DLC is simply not there. Second, its far, far easier for ZOS to develop more battleground maps and modes than it is to make fundamental changes to how Cyrodiil functions as a map.

As for all the forts looking the same, well, those are Imperial forts because Cyrodiil is the heartland of the Empire. At most, you could play with Colovian and Nibenese construction, though these forts have the generic appearance they also had in Oblivion. However, you do see appropriate differences in the towns, with Cheydinhal being very Imperial stone construction, Cropsford being an Imperial farming village, Bruma being a much more nordic looking village in accordance with its portrayal in Oblivion, and so on.

For what they are looking to update in PVP, you can look at their December combat update: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386186/monthly-combat-update-december-2017/p1

This is why I was against battlegrounds to begin with. Its the typical route mmo devs take.

• Introduce Open world AvA
• Time passes, AvA gets a few updates here and there
• Miniscule minority demands Small Scale
• Small scale becomes the focus because it is easier to develop
• AvA gets ignored for the rest of time.

Its a pity really.

This isn't even close to what has happened. BGs was introduced, and hardly anyone plays it. It gets very little attention from the devs just like Cyrodiil.

Cyrodiil not getting attention from the devs has nothing to do with the introduction of BGs. PvP in general has a low population and that is the reason that PvP in general does not get attention from the devs.

I understand you wanted show us the "trend" you have certainly noticed over the years playing MMOs, but it is safe to say this isn't what has happened here at all.

Rainraven

tinythinker wrote: »

HairyFairy wrote: »

yes but the factions are the ones who own these forts, not the imperials. it would be a lot more interesting to take an orcish fortress once in a while or something!

The story won't progress much because this is a theme park game rather than a sandbox. One way to have *some* advancement would be to attach a new addition to the story via something like a PvP trial in Cyrodiil.

It is also true that the keeps all look the same because they are imperial, but honestly, since we keep rebuilding them they could have some faction-specific changes of appearance and certainly the siege weapons could be re-skinned by faction.

There could also be a new PvP zone on some island that the three alliances are fighting over, but I don't see ZOS looking to add another PvP zone anytime soon (or, well, ever).

But I want to go to Cloud Ruler Temple.

tinythinker

Rainraven wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

HairyFairy wrote: »

yes but the factions are the ones who own these forts, not the imperials. it would be a lot more interesting to take an orcish fortress once in a while or something!

The story won't progress much because this is a theme park game rather than a sandbox. One way to have *some* advancement would be to attach a new addition to the story via something like a PvP trial in Cyrodiil.

It is also true that the keeps all look the same because they are imperial, but honestly, since we keep rebuilding them they could have some faction-specific changes of appearance and certainly the siege weapons could be re-skinned by faction.

There could also be a new PvP zone on some island that the three alliances are fighting over, but I don't see ZOS looking to add another PvP zone anytime soon (or, well, ever).

But I want to go to Cloud Ruler Temple.

Me too

Jade1986

VaranisArano wrote: »

Hurtfan wrote: »

A new map would rock...even put in some city warfare. Hiding in buildings and such.

Try the Imperial City. There's an entire city to play around in, tons of buildings to hide in...If only you can get other PVPers to come join you so you can actually get a decent fight without waiting forever.

Or the towns in Cyrodiil. You can hide in and around those buildings all day! (And in PC/NA Vivec you'll find regular fights in 1 town, Bruma. The others are ghost towns for PVP.)

See, that's the problem we all face. ZOS already has quite a bit of options available for PVP, but not enough players interested in ALL of those options. The Imperial City is ideal for what you just described - but there's not a sustainable population outside of the two weeks of the anniversary event unless you really, really, like patiently waiting for small-scale PVP and ganking. The PVE towns in Cyrodiil can also be excellent - Bruma sees regular fighting between EP and DC in a competitive campaign - but not all the time.

The problem with IC is the respawn points are ABYSMAL and you cant fast travel to the alliance bases in cyro without trudging your way out there, and you cant get back in to the IC without spending a night and day getting there.

SirAxen

PVP was tossed a pretty big bone last chapter. Battlegrounds. If they weren't locked behind a paywall they would be perfect, but I enjoy them a lot more than I do Cyrodiil.