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And another idiotic unbalanced skill in PVP: Dragonknight spell reflect

  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Neloth wrote: »
    The complain from sorc looks pretty stupid, yes (since it's just "don't frag him with wings up"), but don't forget that wings completely shut down magNB.

    No.

    As a Mageblade I can tell you that wings do nothing. Attack and cloak... dmg returned? 0
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • idk
    idk
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    evoprimes wrote: »
    I am a mag sorc and one DK has always the spell reflect buff on. I really hope that a cooldown to this spell will be applied otherwise it causes a lot of unbalanced fights throughout the game.
    I am pretty sure that no one from ZOS will read this because they just don't care. But still, I take this opportunity to call them exactly what they are: a bunch on untrained chimps. Thank you

    The DK wings has been nerfed so hard it is not OP in any way. It is not unbalanced by any means.

    It is so easy to see them apply it.

    Zos will read it but will understand it is fine as it is. Especially considering your calling them a bunch of untrained chimps when you are challenged with the easiest skill to notice and avoid.
    evoprimes wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Hahahahaha

    Wow

    I never thought I’d see this post.

    Yet here we are.

    Congrats OP - you are whining about the buggiest, easiest to counter, and possibly the worst skill in the game.

    Congrats!

    Oh, please, tell me God of ESO, how can I counter that without changing my skills for that specific OP autist skill?

    Changing and adapting is a big part of PvP. If one keeps doing the same thing, the same way, and wonders why the results do not change then one has to wonder.
    Edited by idk on December 13, 2017 1:54PM
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    DDuke wrote: »
    You know, the op is right.

    It might not be a problem for most of the meta builds (hell, even sorcs can deal with them with crushing shock/light attacks), but try fighting a DK with scales as a bow build. Your pretty much only option is to run away.


    In general, I think cast time abilities (not instant cast frags) should be unreflectable.

    I.e. Snipe should be a long range frontal cone AoE, Crystal Blast should be a targeted AoE & same with Dark Flare.
    There, most problems fixed.

    Neither. Just do the usual rotation... snipe + la + poison arrow then dodgeroll + Repeat. Those wings will be useless at the second round. Consider the DK needs 6 secs to recast the skill so you have plenty of time to kick is butt fom range.

    Though I admit Miat's could help him a lot
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    Did I wake up in May 2014?
  • RighteousBacon
    RighteousBacon
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    Playing a mag dk is tough enough. Don’t you dare take away our reflect unless you’re planning to rip away warden’s too. Oh why don’t you take away defensive posture too. Maybe nerf dragon’s blood back into the ground even further
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    DKsUnite wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    You know, the op is right.

    It might not be a problem for most of the meta builds (hell, even sorcs can deal with them with crushing shock/light attacks), but try fighting a DK with scales as a bow build. Your pretty much only option is to run away.


    In general, I think cast time abilities (not instant cast frags) should be unreflectable.

    I.e. Snipe should be a long range frontal cone AoE, Crystal Blast should be a targeted AoE & same with Dark Flare.
    There, most problems fixed.

    That sounds like a *** terrible idea. The list of things reflected by wings get smaller every single patch and now you want to remove snipe and dark flare from that list, two skills which provide healing debuffs and are pretty much the reason any DK would run wings in the first place....

    See it from the other perspective; how do you plan on beating a DK with scales as a bow build? Or Dark Flare magplar?

    I get that scales need to feel useful, but considering how Master's Destro Flame Clench spammers are everywhere, I don't think they'll feel unuseful any time soon.

    don't play a bow main build like the other %95 of the game then?
    That magDk has no way of catching up to you over 28 meters, his only hope is leap, and you wanna take that away so you can just snipe spam everything to death? Is that what you want?

    I don't know how you came to those conclusions. You couldn't get the facts more wrong if you tried.

    I'm currently playing my magicka DK (light armor destro/resto) that has no problems catching up to ranged builds thanks to Empowering Chains (one of the most underrated abilities in game), not my bow stamblade that never has and never will "spam snipe" (that's what noobs do, the real combo that actually gets kills in PvP is Lethal Arrow->Acid Spray with Perfected Asylum Bow, which can only be done from 10-20m distance).
    I'd love to play more of my bowblade though, but it's not a good idea as long as Miat's is a thing and it still suffers from severe drawbacks, such as survivability & dealing with projectile reflect (Acid Spray/Bombard being the only ability going through reflect for bow builds).

    I mean.. I understand miats suck BUT please, chains aren't underrated, Its utterly useless.(unless some very, very rare situations where you just need the enemy to be close, CC immunity does not matter, but thats kind of rare isnt it?) Giving my enemy free CC immunity, no thanks.
    Especially considering eternal hunt is now the meta nb set, It will only end up bad for the Dk.

    I think you're confused.

    I'm not talking about Unrelenting Grip, which pulls the enemy to you (and yes, gives them free CC immunity) - I'm talking about Empowering Chains which is a gap closer much like Ambush, similarly granting you Empower for the follow-up whip, as well as Major Expedition for 6 seconds meaning you get to stay in melee range of the target even if snared.
    Very handy, considering the following are all close range abilities: Lava Whip, Engulfing Flames, Fossilize, Burning Embers, Volatile Armor.

    Oh, and no free CC immunity.

    Those "meta NBs" are free AP as they're dead to Fossilize+two whips most of the time and can't escape due to the aforementioned Empowering Chains & Volatile Armor screwing up their cloaks.
    Edited by DDuke on December 13, 2017 3:08PM
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    You know, the op is right.

    It might not be a problem for most of the meta builds (hell, even sorcs can deal with them with crushing shock/light attacks), but try fighting a DK with scales as a bow build. Your pretty much only option is to run away.


    In general, I think cast time abilities (not instant cast frags) should be unreflectable.

    I.e. Snipe should be a long range frontal cone AoE, Crystal Blast should be a targeted AoE & same with Dark Flare.
    There, most problems fixed.

    Neither. Just do the usual rotation... snipe + la + poison arrow then dodgeroll + Repeat. Those wings will be useless at the second round. Consider the DK needs 6 secs to recast the skill so you have plenty of time to kick is butt fom range.

    Though I admit Miat's could help him a lot

    It isn't that simple. Bow builds are among the most squishiest in the game and the damage isn't sustain oriented, it's 99% burst. You can't land an instagib combo on a DK, ever, if they focus on keeping scales up.

    And the moment a decent mag DK gets in melee range of you, you're pretty much dead as a bow build. Snares, roots, undodgeable damage... and inability to even try and burst your opponent? You can't deal with that as a bow build, period.
    Edited by DDuke on December 13, 2017 3:06PM
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    You know, the op is right.

    It might not be a problem for most of the meta builds (hell, even sorcs can deal with them with crushing shock/light attacks), but try fighting a DK with scales as a bow build. Your pretty much only option is to run away.


    In general, I think cast time abilities (not instant cast frags) should be unreflectable.

    I.e. Snipe should be a long range frontal cone AoE, Crystal Blast should be a targeted AoE & same with Dark Flare.
    There, most problems fixed.

    Neither. Just do the usual rotation... snipe + la + poison arrow then dodgeroll + Repeat. Those wings will be useless at the second round. Consider the DK needs 6 secs to recast the skill so you have plenty of time to kick is butt fom range.

    Though I admit Miat's could help him a lot

    It isn't that simple. Bow builds are among the most squishiest in the game and the damage isn't sustain oriented, it's 99% burst. You can't land an instagib combo on a DK, ever, if they focus on keeping scales up.

    And the moment a decent mag DK gets in melee range of you, you're pretty much dead as a bow build. Snares, roots, undodgeable damage... and inability to even try and burst your opponent? You can't deal with that as a bow build, period.

    At the moment any decent mDK gets you on melee range you are dead in almost any build
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Anyway, I still keep my question, why do people complain about wings and not about Shield Wall or worst... Shimmering?
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    If a DK is casting wings every 6 seconds he’s not able to burst you and will run out of sustain
  • AllPlayAndNoWork
    AllPlayAndNoWork
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    Nerf Sorcs !
  • DHale
    DHale
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    Any sorc who can’t kill a DK with curse, crushing shock, and mages wrath should play another class. Ok my bad, another game.
    Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    If a DK is casting wings every 6 seconds he’s not able to burst you and will run out of sustain

    Scales (absorbs the snipe opponent was casting, his light attack & the next two attacks)->Empowering Chains->Fossilize->Whip Whip=dead bow user, Leap if not.

    You were saying?


    Also, someone trying to land a Asylum Snipe combo for example will run out of stamina long before a DK spamming scales every 2-3 seconds.

    3402 Magicka/scales cast (5/1/1 light, no seducer or alteration)
    2625 Stamina/Snipe (with 7x medium & Marksman)

    Considering one cast of scales will absorb two snipe weaves (Acid Spray/Bombard goes through and doesn't consume scales charge), we're looking at 3402 magicka absorbing 5250 stamina worth of stuff.


    I'm not saying Scales are too strong or anything, they're balanced vs most builds. I'm just saying they counter certain builds a bit too much, which is why I'd like to see those certain builds have more ways around Scales rather than see changes to reflect abilities themselves.
    Edited by DDuke on December 13, 2017 4:11PM
  • Subversus
    Subversus
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Hahahahaha

    Wow

    I never thought I’d see this post.

    Yet here we are.

    Congrats OP - you are whining about the buggiest, easiest to counter, and possibly the worst skill in the game.

    Congrats!

    Please tell me how to counter wings spam as a destro resto magblade oh you wise one!

    Congrats Thogard - you are an actual moron.

    Congrats!
  • Valencer
    Valencer
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    DDuke wrote: »
    I'm not saying Scales are too strong or anything, they're balanced vs most builds. I'm just saying they counter certain builds a bit too much, which is why I'd like to see those certain builds have more ways around Scales rather than see changes to reflect abilities themselves.

    Then don't rely on snipe as your main damage skill.

    Scales is useless versus any setup that's not a ranged magblade or snipetard. Versus a mag sorc the mileage you get out of the skill is questionable at best.
    Edited by Valencer on December 13, 2017 4:17PM
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Valencer wrote: »
    Then don't rely on snipe as your main damage skill?

    Cool.

    Please share your successful bow build that doesn't rely on snipe as main damage dealing ability.
  • Valencer
    Valencer
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    I'd rather use bow on my backbar for the mobility and other utility it offers (like a variety of DoTs).

    Assuming sDK wasnt forced into an useless 1h+s/2h tanktard spec nowadays, but thats a different discussion entirely.

    Use your weapons for what they're good at, etc.
    Edited by Valencer on December 13, 2017 4:20PM
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Subversus wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Hahahahaha

    Wow

    I never thought I’d see this post.

    Yet here we are.

    Congrats OP - you are whining about the buggiest, easiest to counter, and possibly the worst skill in the game.

    Congrats!

    Please tell me how to counter wings spam as a destro resto magblade oh you wise one!

    Congrats Thogard - you are an actual moron.

    Congrats!

    4x light attack, maybe use crushing shock, fear when you know it'll end and burst them, dots/AoEs, laugh as they burn all mag attempting to keep it up, but not have the reflect refresh, Multiple people?

    Wings is only good against pure ranged magblades and bowtards... In a 1v1, since against multiple targets it goes down way too fast. (3 reflect per target is probably the best way to keep it balanced in 1v1 and 1vx)

    Its also bugged to high hell with dots and status effects going through the wings, refresh not working, and occasionally not reflecting at all. It reflects all projectiles, (except those that it doesn't ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) All for the low, low price of 4k.
    Edited by ak_pvp on December 13, 2017 4:22PM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • IcyDeadPeople
    IcyDeadPeople
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    evoprimes wrote: »
    I am a mag sorc and one DK has always the spell reflect buff on. I really hope that a cooldown to this spell will be applied otherwise it causes a lot of unbalanced fights throughout the game.
    I am pretty sure that no one from ZOS will read this because they just don't care. But still, I take this opportunity to call them exactly what they are: a bunch on untrained chimps. Thank you

    Just use instead curse, crushing shock, mines, streak and just wait after 6 seconds before overload or mages fury execute
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Valencer wrote: »
    Then don't rely on snipe as your main damage skill?

    Cool.

    Please share your successful bow build that doesn't rely on snipe as main damage dealing ability.

    The way bow is designed is as a secondary weapon, saying why can't I hit against wings using only bow its like saying why can't I deal high dps running only resto staff. I don't mind the change of snipe to be targeted, less plebs using it, more chance for skilled shots. (remove cast time ofc.) and usable as a spammable in PvE.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • idk
    idk
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    Did I wake up in May 2014?

    It does seem OP is lost in the past. Was really surprised someone, other than a DK, would complain about this skill now.
  • Glory
    Glory
    Class Representative
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paD0y6uFu4w

    That's from December 7th, 2014. Before all the heavy nerfs to wings.
    mDK will rise again.
    Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.

    @Glorious since I have too many characters to list

    Ádamant

    Strongly against Faction Lock
  • Extinct_Solo_Player
    Extinct_Solo_Player
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    Subversus wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Hahahahaha

    Wow

    I never thought I’d see this post.

    Yet here we are.

    Congrats OP - you are whining about the buggiest, easiest to counter, and possibly the worst skill in the game.

    Congrats!

    Please tell me how to counter wings spam as a destro resto magblade oh you wise one!

    Congrats Thogard - you are an actual moron.

    Congrats!

    Please Tell me how you can sustain wings that have a 4k mag cost, only reflects a small amount of things and is buggy af. Don't call people a moron if you only talk about 1v1 scenarios where everything can unbalanced because it makes you look like the moron.

  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    Casts frags at a flapping DK instead of using force pulse, claims it's not a L2P issue ...
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Valencer wrote: »
    I'd rather use bow on my backbar for the mobility and other utility it offers (like a variety of DoTs).

    Assuming sDK wasnt forced into an useless 1h+s/2h tanktard spec nowadays, but thats a different discussion entirely.

    Use your weapons for what they're good at, etc.

    And I'd rather use bow on my main bar and play a ranged stamina build, than play some melee build with bow off bar like I've done for the past 3+ years.

    Bow can be very strong as a main weapon, but it still has its problems (Miats, reflect abilities, squishiness).

    I'd prefer to see those issues addressed & bow brought up in terms of competitiveness than settle for less build diversity in PvP "just because". If one part of that process is addressing how bow performs vs abilities like scales (and other reflects), then so be it.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Valencer wrote: »
    Then don't rely on snipe as your main damage skill?

    Cool.

    Please share your successful bow build that doesn't rely on snipe as main damage dealing ability.

    The way bow is designed is as a secondary weapon, saying why can't I hit against wings using only bow its like saying why can't I deal high dps running only resto staff. I don't mind the change of snipe to be targeted, less plebs using it, more chance for skilled shots. (remove cast time ofc.) and usable as a spammable in PvE.

    If so, then it's bad design.

    Why is it bad design? Because for no good reason it alienates players who have enjoyed their "hunters", "rangers", "archers" etc etc in other (MMO)RPGs.


    Ergo, if that's how bow was "designed", then the design clearly needs to change.
    Edited by DDuke on December 13, 2017 4:34PM
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    Lol and people wonder why zos barely responds
  • Datthaw
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    Subversus wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Hahahahaha

    Wow

    I never thought I’d see this post.

    Yet here we are.

    Congrats OP - you are whining about the buggiest, easiest to counter, and possibly the worst skill in the game.

    Congrats!

    Please tell me how to counter wings spam as a destro resto magblade oh you wise one!

    Congrats Thogard - you are an actual moron.

    Congrats!

    Resto attacks to build up mercy bow then do this number degeneration > meteor > fear (before meteor actually hits) > mercy bow either dead magdk or they are hanging on by a hair
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Valencer wrote: »
    Then don't rely on snipe as your main damage skill?

    Cool.

    Please share your successful bow build that doesn't rely on snipe as main damage dealing ability.

    Full heavy, ambush, SA, Incap

    :trollface:

    Anyway, Imho the bigger problem is Miat's on a DK. Without Miat's you can always attack from behind
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Sigtric
    Sigtric
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    Thanks for the laugh OP.

    Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
    Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |

    Show Me Your Dunmer
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