And another idiotic unbalanced skill in PVP: Dragonknight spell reflect

Xvorg

Neloth wrote: »

The complain from sorc looks pretty stupid, yes (since it's just "don't frag him with wings up"), but don't forget that wings completely shut down magNB.

No.

As a Mageblade I can tell you that wings do nothing. Attack and cloak... dmg returned? 0

idk

evoprimes wrote: »

I am a mag sorc and one DK has always the spell reflect buff on. I really hope that a cooldown to this spell will be applied otherwise it causes a lot of unbalanced fights throughout the game.
I am pretty sure that no one from ZOS will read this because they just don't care. But still, I take this opportunity to call them exactly what they are: a bunch on untrained chimps. Thank you

The DK wings has been nerfed so hard it is not OP in any way. It is not unbalanced by any means.

It is so easy to see them apply it.

Zos will read it but will understand it is fine as it is. Especially considering your calling them a bunch of untrained chimps when you are challenged with the easiest skill to notice and avoid.

evoprimes wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Hahahahaha

Wow

I never thought I’d see this post.

Yet here we are.

Congrats OP - you are whining about the buggiest, easiest to counter, and possibly the worst skill in the game.

Congrats!

Oh, please, tell me God of ESO, how can I counter that without changing my skills for that specific OP autist skill?

Changing and adapting is a big part of PvP. If one keeps doing the same thing, the same way, and wonders why the results do not change then one has to wonder.

Xvorg

DDuke wrote: »

You know, the op is right.

It might not be a problem for most of the meta builds (hell, even sorcs can deal with them with crushing shock/light attacks), but try fighting a DK with scales as a bow build. Your pretty much only option is to run away.


In general, I think cast time abilities (not instant cast frags) should be unreflectable.

I.e. Snipe should be a long range frontal cone AoE, Crystal Blast should be a targeted AoE & same with Dark Flare.
There, most problems fixed.

Neither. Just do the usual rotation... snipe + la + poison arrow then dodgeroll + Repeat. Those wings will be useless at the second round. Consider the DK needs 6 secs to recast the skill so you have plenty of time to kick is butt fom range.

Though I admit Miat's could help him a lot

Joy_Division

Did I wake up in May 2014?

RighteousBacon

Playing a mag dk is tough enough. Don’t you dare take away our reflect unless you’re planning to rip away warden’s too. Oh why don’t you take away defensive posture too. Maybe nerf dragon’s blood back into the ground even further

DDuke

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

You know, the op is right.

It might not be a problem for most of the meta builds (hell, even sorcs can deal with them with crushing shock/light attacks), but try fighting a DK with scales as a bow build. Your pretty much only option is to run away.


In general, I think cast time abilities (not instant cast frags) should be unreflectable.

I.e. Snipe should be a long range frontal cone AoE, Crystal Blast should be a targeted AoE & same with Dark Flare.
There, most problems fixed.

That sounds like a *** terrible idea. The list of things reflected by wings get smaller every single patch and now you want to remove snipe and dark flare from that list, two skills which provide healing debuffs and are pretty much the reason any DK would run wings in the first place....

See it from the other perspective; how do you plan on beating a DK with scales as a bow build? Or Dark Flare magplar?

I get that scales need to feel useful, but considering how Master's Destro Flame Clench spammers are everywhere, I don't think they'll feel unuseful any time soon.

don't play a bow main build like the other %95 of the game then?
That magDk has no way of catching up to you over 28 meters, his only hope is leap, and you wanna take that away so you can just snipe spam everything to death? Is that what you want?

I don't know how you came to those conclusions. You couldn't get the facts more wrong if you tried.

I'm currently playing my magicka DK (light armor destro/resto) that has no problems catching up to ranged builds thanks to Empowering Chains (one of the most underrated abilities in game), not my bow stamblade that never has and never will "spam snipe" (that's what noobs do, the real combo that actually gets kills in PvP is Lethal Arrow->Acid Spray with Perfected Asylum Bow, which can only be done from 10-20m distance).
I'd love to play more of my bowblade though, but it's not a good idea as long as Miat's is a thing and it still suffers from severe drawbacks, such as survivability & dealing with projectile reflect (Acid Spray/Bombard being the only ability going through reflect for bow builds).

I mean.. I understand miats suck BUT please, chains aren't underrated, Its utterly useless.(unless some very, very rare situations where you just need the enemy to be close, CC immunity does not matter, but thats kind of rare isnt it?) Giving my enemy free CC immunity, no thanks.
Especially considering eternal hunt is now the meta nb set, It will only end up bad for the Dk.

I think you're confused.

I'm not talking about Unrelenting Grip, which pulls the enemy to you (and yes, gives them free CC immunity) - I'm talking about Empowering Chains which is a gap closer much like Ambush, similarly granting you Empower for the follow-up whip, as well as Major Expedition for 6 seconds meaning you get to stay in melee range of the target even if snared.
Very handy, considering the following are all close range abilities: Lava Whip, Engulfing Flames, Fossilize, Burning Embers, Volatile Armor.

Oh, and no free CC immunity.

Those "meta NBs" are free AP as they're dead to Fossilize+two whips most of the time and can't escape due to the aforementioned Empowering Chains & Volatile Armor screwing up their cloaks.

DDuke

Xvorg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

You know, the op is right.

It might not be a problem for most of the meta builds (hell, even sorcs can deal with them with crushing shock/light attacks), but try fighting a DK with scales as a bow build. Your pretty much only option is to run away.


In general, I think cast time abilities (not instant cast frags) should be unreflectable.

I.e. Snipe should be a long range frontal cone AoE, Crystal Blast should be a targeted AoE & same with Dark Flare.
There, most problems fixed.

Neither. Just do the usual rotation... snipe + la + poison arrow then dodgeroll + Repeat. Those wings will be useless at the second round. Consider the DK needs 6 secs to recast the skill so you have plenty of time to kick is butt fom range.

Though I admit Miat's could help him a lot

It isn't that simple. Bow builds are among the most squishiest in the game and the damage isn't sustain oriented, it's 99% burst. You can't land an instagib combo on a DK, ever, if they focus on keeping scales up.

And the moment a decent mag DK gets in melee range of you, you're pretty much dead as a bow build. Snares, roots, undodgeable damage... and inability to even try and burst your opponent? You can't deal with that as a bow build, period.

Xvorg

DDuke wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

You know, the op is right.

It might not be a problem for most of the meta builds (hell, even sorcs can deal with them with crushing shock/light attacks), but try fighting a DK with scales as a bow build. Your pretty much only option is to run away.


In general, I think cast time abilities (not instant cast frags) should be unreflectable.

I.e. Snipe should be a long range frontal cone AoE, Crystal Blast should be a targeted AoE & same with Dark Flare.
There, most problems fixed.

Neither. Just do the usual rotation... snipe + la + poison arrow then dodgeroll + Repeat. Those wings will be useless at the second round. Consider the DK needs 6 secs to recast the skill so you have plenty of time to kick is butt fom range.

Though I admit Miat's could help him a lot

It isn't that simple. Bow builds are among the most squishiest in the game and the damage isn't sustain oriented, it's 99% burst. You can't land an instagib combo on a DK, ever, if they focus on keeping scales up.

And the moment a decent mag DK gets in melee range of you, you're pretty much dead as a bow build. Snares, roots, undodgeable damage... and inability to even try and burst your opponent? You can't deal with that as a bow build, period.

At the moment any decent mDK gets you on melee range you are dead in almost any build

Xvorg

Anyway, I still keep my question, why do people complain about wings and not about Shield Wall or worst... Shimmering?

Lexxypwns

If a DK is casting wings every 6 seconds he’s not able to burst you and will run out of sustain

AllPlayAndNoWork

Nerf Sorcs !

DHale

Any sorc who can’t kill a DK with curse, crushing shock, and mages wrath should play another class. Ok my bad, another game.

DDuke

Lexxypwns wrote: »

If a DK is casting wings every 6 seconds he’s not able to burst you and will run out of sustain

Scales (absorbs the snipe opponent was casting, his light attack & the next two attacks)->Empowering Chains->Fossilize->Whip Whip=dead bow user, Leap if not.

You were saying?


Also, someone trying to land a Asylum Snipe combo for example will run out of stamina long before a DK spamming scales every 2-3 seconds.

3402 Magicka/scales cast (5/1/1 light, no seducer or alteration)
2625 Stamina/Snipe (with 7x medium & Marksman)

Considering one cast of scales will absorb two snipe weaves (Acid Spray/Bombard goes through and doesn't consume scales charge), we're looking at 3402 magicka absorbing 5250 stamina worth of stuff.


I'm not saying Scales are too strong or anything, they're balanced vs most builds. I'm just saying they counter certain builds a bit too much, which is why I'd like to see those certain builds have more ways around Scales rather than see changes to reflect abilities themselves.

Subversus

Thogard wrote: »

Hahahahaha

Wow

I never thought I’d see this post.

Yet here we are.

Congrats OP - you are whining about the buggiest, easiest to counter, and possibly the worst skill in the game.

Congrats!

Please tell me how to counter wings spam as a destro resto magblade oh you wise one!

Congrats Thogard - you are an actual moron.

Congrats!

Valencer

DDuke wrote: »

I'm not saying Scales are too strong or anything, they're balanced vs most builds. I'm just saying they counter certain builds a bit too much, which is why I'd like to see those certain builds have more ways around Scales rather than see changes to reflect abilities themselves.

Then don't rely on snipe as your main damage skill.

Scales is useless versus any setup that's not a ranged magblade or snipetard. Versus a mag sorc the mileage you get out of the skill is questionable at best.

DDuke

Valencer wrote: »

Then don't rely on snipe as your main damage skill?

Cool.

Please share your successful bow build that doesn't rely on snipe as main damage dealing ability.

Valencer

I'd rather use bow on my backbar for the mobility and other utility it offers (like a variety of DoTs).

Assuming sDK wasnt forced into an useless 1h+s/2h tanktard spec nowadays, but thats a different discussion entirely.

Use your weapons for what they're good at, etc.

ak_pvp

Subversus wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Hahahahaha

Wow

I never thought I’d see this post.

Yet here we are.

Congrats OP - you are whining about the buggiest, easiest to counter, and possibly the worst skill in the game.

Congrats!

Please tell me how to counter wings spam as a destro resto magblade oh you wise one!

Congrats Thogard - you are an actual moron.

Congrats!

4x light attack, maybe use crushing shock, fear when you know it'll end and burst them, dots/AoEs, laugh as they burn all mag attempting to keep it up, but not have the reflect refresh, Multiple people?

Wings is only good against pure ranged magblades and bowtards... In a 1v1, since against multiple targets it goes down way too fast. (3 reflect per target is probably the best way to keep it balanced in 1v1 and 1vx)

Its also bugged to high hell with dots and status effects going through the wings, refresh not working, and occasionally not reflecting at all. It reflects all projectiles, (except those that it doesn't ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) All for the low, low price of 4k.

IcyDeadPeople

evoprimes wrote: »

I am a mag sorc and one DK has always the spell reflect buff on. I really hope that a cooldown to this spell will be applied otherwise it causes a lot of unbalanced fights throughout the game.
I am pretty sure that no one from ZOS will read this because they just don't care. But still, I take this opportunity to call them exactly what they are: a bunch on untrained chimps. Thank you

Just use instead curse, crushing shock, mines, streak and just wait after 6 seconds before overload or mages fury execute

ak_pvp

DDuke wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Then don't rely on snipe as your main damage skill?

Cool.

Please share your successful bow build that doesn't rely on snipe as main damage dealing ability.

The way bow is designed is as a secondary weapon, saying why can't I hit against wings using only bow its like saying why can't I deal high dps running only resto staff. I don't mind the change of snipe to be targeted, less plebs using it, more chance for skilled shots. (remove cast time ofc.) and usable as a spammable in PvE.

idk

Joy_Division wrote: »

Did I wake up in May 2014?

It does seem OP is lost in the past. Was really surprised someone, other than a DK, would complain about this skill now.

Glory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paD0y6uFu4w

That's from December 7th, 2014. Before all the heavy nerfs to wings.

Extinct_Solo_Player

Subversus wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Hahahahaha

Wow

I never thought I’d see this post.

Yet here we are.

Congrats OP - you are whining about the buggiest, easiest to counter, and possibly the worst skill in the game.

Congrats!

Please tell me how to counter wings spam as a destro resto magblade oh you wise one!

Congrats Thogard - you are an actual moron.

Congrats!

Please Tell me how you can sustain wings that have a 4k mag cost, only reflects a small amount of things and is buggy af. Don't call people a moron if you only talk about 1v1 scenarios where everything can unbalanced because it makes you look like the moron.

Asardes

Casts frags at a flapping DK instead of using force pulse, claims it's not a L2P issue ...

DDuke

Valencer wrote: »

I'd rather use bow on my backbar for the mobility and other utility it offers (like a variety of DoTs).

Assuming sDK wasnt forced into an useless 1h+s/2h tanktard spec nowadays, but thats a different discussion entirely.

Use your weapons for what they're good at, etc.

And I'd rather use bow on my main bar and play a ranged stamina build, than play some melee build with bow off bar like I've done for the past 3+ years.

Bow can be very strong as a main weapon, but it still has its problems (Miats, reflect abilities, squishiness).

I'd prefer to see those issues addressed & bow brought up in terms of competitiveness than settle for less build diversity in PvP "just because". If one part of that process is addressing how bow performs vs abilities like scales (and other reflects), then so be it.

DDuke

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Then don't rely on snipe as your main damage skill?

Cool.

Please share your successful bow build that doesn't rely on snipe as main damage dealing ability.

The way bow is designed is as a secondary weapon, saying why can't I hit against wings using only bow its like saying why can't I deal high dps running only resto staff. I don't mind the change of snipe to be targeted, less plebs using it, more chance for skilled shots. (remove cast time ofc.) and usable as a spammable in PvE.

If so, then it's bad design.

Why is it bad design? Because for no good reason it alienates players who have enjoyed their "hunters", "rangers", "archers" etc etc in other (MMO)RPGs.


Ergo, if that's how bow was "designed", then the design clearly needs to change.

zParallaxz

Lol and people wonder why zos barely responds

Datthaw

Subversus wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Hahahahaha

Wow

I never thought I’d see this post.

Yet here we are.

Congrats OP - you are whining about the buggiest, easiest to counter, and possibly the worst skill in the game.

Congrats!

Please tell me how to counter wings spam as a destro resto magblade oh you wise one!

Congrats Thogard - you are an actual moron.

Congrats!

Resto attacks to build up mercy bow then do this number degeneration > meteor > fear (before meteor actually hits) > mercy bow either dead magdk or they are hanging on by a hair

Xvorg

DDuke wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Then don't rely on snipe as your main damage skill?

Cool.

Please share your successful bow build that doesn't rely on snipe as main damage dealing ability.

Full heavy, ambush, SA, Incap



Anyway, Imho the bigger problem is Miat's on a DK. Without Miat's you can always attack from behind

Sigtric

Thanks for the laugh OP.