It's time to talk about DK Standard

Nihility42

Waffennacht wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

@Nihility42

Are you sure you got EVERYTHING on your wish list for that one ability? In addition, maybe it could also:

- refresh the potion timer regardless what the countdown is
- Recharge itself
- Call out for dominos pizza, realize dominos sucks and call to cancel
- Kill nearest Templar instantly. Avada kadavra!
- discover unified theory of physics
- Open overcharge bar that gives DKs every ability in the game
- send rude email to Eric Wroebel on every use

Lol.

I'm not actually sure what you're getting at. I just responded to OP's ideas. These aren't my suggestions or a wishlist.

Come on, it's still pretty funny, unified theory of physics? Avada kadavra? It's funny (even if misdirected)

Fair enough. I'll give you that.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Draxys wrote: »

“It’s just outdated” basically sums up DKs. They’re the only class that didn’t get significant updates to make it appropriate for the current game.

That being said, I think one way to make banner fearsome again could be to give it a passive effect that increases damage and effects etc against players inside its radius. Gives it extra usefulness in pvp, doesn’t change pve.

Lol, DK didn’t get left behind, it’s more like every other class finally caught up to DK

I think standard is WAY to expensive compared to other ults.

Magicka steal would be cool. Increase DoT damage would be good too. I don’t think these changes would mess up PvE. Maybe increase damage for all allies as well.

Metemsycosis

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

@Nihility42

Are you sure you got EVERYTHING on your wish list for that one ability? In addition, maybe it could also:

- refresh the potion timer regardless what the countdown is
- Recharge itself
- Call out for dominos pizza, realize dominos sucks and call to cancel
- Kill nearest Templar instantly. Avada kadavra!
- discover unified theory of physics
- Open overcharge bar that gives DKs every ability in the game
- send rude email to Eric Wroebel on every use

Lol.

About fing killed me

Lol me toooo

DeadlyRecluse

Quantum_V wrote: »

In the first place I just think the issue with this ult can be summarized in a few word: it's just outdated.

As with pretty much every ground-placed ult.

Veil, Nova, Standard, even Atronach.

I'd argue the problem is the ready availability of PBAoE ults (Destro is the obvious offender, though Bats fits there too) or cheaper, more reliable ults (dawnbreaker, meteor).

It's left all the ground-placed ults more or less in the dust. Especially with Bloodroot helm set gobbling them up and negates erasing them. I don't think the answer is to buff the everloving daylight out of the ground-placed ults, but rather tone the others down a little bit and bring them up just a hair so that there is a meaningful decision between the two.

Gilliamtherogue

Quantum_V wrote: »

Hello everyone,

For the past week or two I've been playing around with Standard and it's morphs. Gave a shot at it in solo, small group and medium sized groups and I bascially just want to give my opinion about it and suggest some changes to what once was an Ult that brough sheer fear into your enemies. Before we start, I think it's essential to make a point clear: I don't PvE, I don't know how PvE works, so please keep this in mind while reading this thread. I might propose solutions that could totally unbalance this ult in PvE situations, so I'd love to get different insights and replies about it.

In the first place I just think the issue with this ult can be summarized in a few word: it's just outdated. The game has change a lot since 1.5 and it seems that Standard ult didn't evolve with it. It's stuck to the old playstyle and balances, redering it useless in todays' Cyrodiilic enviroment. So to start with, the biggest issue with Standard right now is the COST/Effectiveness ratio. Back in the day where you had dynamic ult regen and major defile was not easily accessible Standard had a proportional cost to it's effecs in PvP.

I'll start of a simple premise, standard is only 'useful' because it applies major defile, the damage it provides is basically neglectible compared to other DoTs in the game. We'll keep that in mind when proposing solutions. Fact is, major defile is just a very easy debuff to get, Wardens can literally spam that healing debuff anywhere without having to slot a 250 cost ultimate. It makes no sense to me being able to have a skill that has the same basic effect as such an expensive ultimate.

If we grab an ultimate like Resto ult, that gives you major protection, a whole ton of healing, improves crit damage etc... for 150 ult. That, imo, is just really unproportional to have in the exsistance of a ult like banner. Have a negate? Standard is useless compared to this ult. Healing thicket, god damn.

So I think most of us understands from where I'm coming from, I don't want to make this post too long, so lets get to the changes that could make this ultimate more viable.

• Decrease it's cost
• Increase damage done per second (I understand this could unbalance this ult for pve)
• Apply minor/major magicka steal to enemies inside the ult radius
• Apply minor/major protection to you (or allies) inside the ult radius
• Apply minor/major breech/fracture to enemies inside the ult radius
• Snare opponents inside the ult radius by x% (make that x a pretty big number, I'd suggest)
• Stun all opponents inside the banner drop radius
  

So what do you think? Please let me know! It'd be a pleasure if we could get ZoS to read this thread and hopefully make some changes to this badass ult!

Thanks!

Quantum

A lot of the placed class ultimates haven't been updated with the changes of game play and meta performance. Veil still remains one of the weakest PvP (and a rather meh PvE) ultimates, Nova only remains due to Gravity Crush, and Negate only remains because of it's unique ability to counteract other ultimates. Anything you can walk of rather readily (especially with the important of Snare+Immobility immunity these days) can instantly be ignored.

That being said, as for the cost efficiency of what Standard does, let's compare the "big" class Ultimates and what they enable.

Standard;
250 Ultimate
17s duration
15% increase damage to all targets + 15% reduced damage taken for caster OR ability to infinitely replace and 27s duration
AoE Fire damage, with the chance to apply Burning status
30% Snare from Warmth passive each tick, no target cap
AoE Major Defile (6 person target cap)
Synergy that snares enemies and deals damage based on Max Health (needs buffing, will discuss further on)

Veil of Blades;
200 Ultimate
16s duration
Major Protection, 30% mitigation, for 6 friendly targets inside
AoE Magic damage OR 30% bonus mitigation for caster
Synergy that heals low health allies and grants stealth (incredibly lack luster, needs rework)

Negate Magic;
225 Ultimate base -> 192 with Sorc passives
11s duration
Removal of enemy ground based DoTs
AoE Magic damage OR healing (healing has 6 ally target cap)
No synergy ((

Nova;
250 Ultimate base -> 240 with Temp passives
12s duration (listed value is 10s but ability persists after it visually ends)
AoE Magic damage
Major Maim, 30% reduced damage dealt to enemies, 6 target cap
Synergy that stuns for 2.5s and deals moderate burst damage
Morph options add; 65% snare OR double stun duration + huge damage burst of synergy (arguably best synergy in the game)


As far as cost efficiency, Standard packs the largest punch in terms of operational value. It brings the most to the table in terms of affixes/effects, and also deals the most damage per tick. If anything, this suggests that other ultimates be increased in efficiency.

Now moving onto what definitely could be done to help Standard, without making it even more broken than it is in PvE.

1) The synergy needs to be reworked. Shackle is pathetically weak and scales with Max Health, while all other damage synergies scale with your highest stats. It also has a pitiful snare, can be dodged, and often flat out doesn't even work on enemies (Misses/does nothing). If we want to leave the Health scaling mechanism, have it go off of a larger % value to help tank builds feel more impactful. Furthermore, this should TETHER all players hit (up to 6 maximum, as always) to the Standard, making them unable to leave the area for at least 3 seconds. This should not be removable via snare/immobilization immunity. The short duration gives the DK user enough time to lock enemies in place and attempt to punish them, while keeping it short enough for players to get defensive for a few seconds and have the ability to retreat.

2) Shifting Standard is not cutting it for morph diversity. It should offer Minor Heroism for the duration to help incentivize this morph option further. Losing 15% damage done and reduced is a HUGE loss comparatively. Minor Heroism isn't a huge buff, and can be made redundant by other sources of it, so this is more of a situational buff than an overall buff.

3) Leaving Standard should have the effects persist on enemies for ~2 seconds after they leave, being the Defile and Flame damage. This helps the Dragonknight retain some semblance of efficiency if their Ultimate is consumed via Negate, or simply walked out of.

3.5) Instead of doing 3, merely increasing the size of Standard by ~2m could be done as well. This still leaves it susceptible to Negate (as any Ultimate that is placed on the ground is), while remaining impactful on helping the Dragonknight get value out of it if people merely run out immediately.

OutLaw_Nynx

Vaoh wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I haven’t used the other morph in pvp but if memory serves me correctly we don’t gain ult when the standard is down correct?

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

The new Shifting Standard is very good....

Doesn’t it take a GCD to reset the standard?

and as far as I remember ,after the last changes to it, you can't get ultimate while shifting standart is up.
IF thats still the case its literally useless.

Thogard wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

The new Shifting Standard is very good....

Doesn’t it take a GCD to reset the standard?

You DO gain Ultimate while the Standard is down. Confirmed. Stop with the conspiracy theories everyone please lol.

Everyone is yelling for buffs. That’s cool and all, but the fact that the people who call it weak don’t know this massive detail goes to show they haven’t even bothered to use what they’re asking to buff a single time in *many* patches.
It was massively buffed in Clockwork City.... please go try it. It’s a very powerful Ultimate now.

It takes a GCD to move the Standard (obviously) but you can move it at will, and the extended duration is naturally added to the skill. It doesn’t take away from the skill for the player to need to move it. You can even cast your Dragon Leap before the duration of Shifting Standard ends.

Please try it first before yelling for buffs....

Where am I talking about a conspiracy theory, @Vaoh. I was just asking a question. Chill out lol

Vaoh

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I haven’t used the other morph in pvp but if memory serves me correctly we don’t gain ult when the standard is down correct?

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

The new Shifting Standard is very good....

Doesn’t it take a GCD to reset the standard?

and as far as I remember ,after the last changes to it, you can't get ultimate while shifting standart is up.
IF thats still the case its literally useless.

Thogard wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

The new Shifting Standard is very good....

Doesn’t it take a GCD to reset the standard?

You DO gain Ultimate while the Standard is down. Confirmed. Stop with the conspiracy theories everyone please lol.

Everyone is yelling for buffs. That’s cool and all, but the fact that the people who call it weak don’t know this massive detail goes to show they haven’t even bothered to use what they’re asking to buff a single time in *many* patches.
It was massively buffed in Clockwork City.... please go try it. It’s a very powerful Ultimate now.

It takes a GCD to move the Standard (obviously) but you can move it at will, and the extended duration is naturally added to the skill. It doesn’t take away from the skill for the player to need to move it. You can even cast your Dragon Leap before the duration of Shifting Standard ends.

Please try it first before yelling for buffs....

Where am I talking about a conspiracy theory, @Vaoh. I was just asking a question. Chill out lol

No not you specifically lol.

It's been a running thing of ppl saying that Shifting Standard halts Ult gen while it's active. This wasn't true last patch and it's certainly not true this patch. People keep writing about it and agreeing with comments though so the rumor spreads without any of the complainers caring to actually test it in-game a single time.

Now these same people who don't even know this crucial feature of one of their most class defining skills, and who haven't slotted the skill in like six months despite the buffs (or they would've noticed the Ult gen and Shifting Standard changes), are here.... and asking for enormous buffs.

I found it hilarious is all. Plus I even agree that it could would be okay for it to have a small buff despite already being a powerful Ult.

If you ever wondered why the Devs avoid player feedback on skill balancing so much.... well this is why. Much of the complaining is done by players that don't even bother to slot the skill for testing after changes have been made.

Ragnarock41

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Its a unique area denial skill that helps my breach holder do it's job. I love it, needs no change imo.

Great synergy for area denial, great buff to the dk who's meant too stand tall and fight.

Its DIFFERENT and situational, like negate. Also it isn't great in small scale and open field. But it's a game changer on a block tank, lock down, breach holding dk.

I disagree, it has worth to one of my characters more than any other, and the game needs more of that and less BIS DBOS type ultimates.

I didn't knew this was a role play thread.
Area denial... rofl.

''guys fall back that DK has a standart up!''

said no one ever, and no one ever will.

how can you compare a game changer ult like negate to a meme tier dk standart? It baffles me to even think about it.

You must be new in this game, please, let me be your guide.

Oh , please guide me,

When did a group with a healer ever feared standart more than negate?

Even in 1.5 bat swarm was the real deal, standart was always a meme.

paulsimonps

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Its a unique area denial skill that helps my breach holder do it's job. I love it, needs no change imo.

Great synergy for area denial, great buff to the dk who's meant too stand tall and fight.

Its DIFFERENT and situational, like negate. Also it isn't great in small scale and open field. But it's a game changer on a block tank, lock down, breach holding dk.

I disagree, it has worth to one of my characters more than any other, and the game needs more of that and less BIS DBOS type ultimates.

I didn't knew this was a role play thread.
Area denial... rofl.

''guys fall back that DK has a standart up!''

said no one ever, and no one ever will.

how can you compare a game changer ult like negate to a meme tier dk standart? It baffles me to even think about it.

You must be new in this game, please, let me be your guide.

Oh , please guide me,

When did a group with a healer ever feared standart more than negate?

Even in 1.5 bat swarm was the real deal, standart was always a meme.

They didn't say it was equal to Negate, no one did, they said it had a similar effect. People reactively move out of Ground Based Stationary Area of Effect abilities or ultimate's. Standard does have the added bonus of giving an AoE Major Defile while at the same time lowering the Damage taken by the caster and increasing their damage done, so while not the best it does have its pros. You can place it down in a gap in a wall and stick your head out far long than you would without it and also debuff anyone trying to go past it while applying a DoT. Sometimes one must look at how well ultimate's work together with one another and how it effects groups playing together, I am not saying Standard is a super amazing be all end all ultimate, but what I am saying is that the concept of Area Denial builds is a sound strategical move for objective based fights, while you said it was a joke.

Ragnarock41

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Its a unique area denial skill that helps my breach holder do it's job. I love it, needs no change imo.

Great synergy for area denial, great buff to the dk who's meant too stand tall and fight.

Its DIFFERENT and situational, like negate. Also it isn't great in small scale and open field. But it's a game changer on a block tank, lock down, breach holding dk.

I disagree, it has worth to one of my characters more than any other, and the game needs more of that and less BIS DBOS type ultimates.

I didn't knew this was a role play thread.
Area denial... rofl.

''guys fall back that DK has a standart up!''

said no one ever, and no one ever will.

how can you compare a game changer ult like negate to a meme tier dk standart? It baffles me to even think about it.

You must be new in this game, please, let me be your guide.

Oh , please guide me,

When did a group with a healer ever feared standart more than negate?

Even in 1.5 bat swarm was the real deal, standart was always a meme.

They didn't say it was equal to Negate, no one did, they said it had a similar effect. People reactively move out of Ground Based Stationary Area of Effect abilities or ultimate's. Standard does have the added bonus of giving an AoE Major Defile while at the same time lowering the Damage taken by the caster and increasing their damage done, so while not the best it does have its pros. You can place it down in a gap in a wall and stick your head out far long than you would without it and also debuff anyone trying to go past it while applying a DoT. Sometimes one must look at how well ultimate's work together with one another and how it effects groups playing together, I am not saying Standard is a super amazing be all end all ultimate, but what I am saying is that the concept of Area Denial builds is a sound strategical move for objective based fights, while you said it was a joke.

on a scale of 1 to 10, negate is sitting at 9 while standart is sitting at 2-3.
a well placed negate is an opportunit to insta-wipe even the strongest, most coordinated groups,while a standart is just gonna change their general direction for like... 2 seconds, but they will most likely just ignore it.

I speak based on my in game experience, not on concepts.
And that experience is, that standart is meme tier ult, and placing a negate instead will ALWAYS benefit you more.
And if you want defile, you can always have a warden.

paulsimonps

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Its a unique area denial skill that helps my breach holder do it's job. I love it, needs no change imo.

Great synergy for area denial, great buff to the dk who's meant too stand tall and fight.

Its DIFFERENT and situational, like negate. Also it isn't great in small scale and open field. But it's a game changer on a block tank, lock down, breach holding dk.

I disagree, it has worth to one of my characters more than any other, and the game needs more of that and less BIS DBOS type ultimates.

I didn't knew this was a role play thread.
Area denial... rofl.

''guys fall back that DK has a standart up!''

said no one ever, and no one ever will.

how can you compare a game changer ult like negate to a meme tier dk standart? It baffles me to even think about it.

You must be new in this game, please, let me be your guide.

Oh , please guide me,

When did a group with a healer ever feared standart more than negate?

Even in 1.5 bat swarm was the real deal, standart was always a meme.

They didn't say it was equal to Negate, no one did, they said it had a similar effect. People reactively move out of Ground Based Stationary Area of Effect abilities or ultimate's. Standard does have the added bonus of giving an AoE Major Defile while at the same time lowering the Damage taken by the caster and increasing their damage done, so while not the best it does have its pros. You can place it down in a gap in a wall and stick your head out far long than you would without it and also debuff anyone trying to go past it while applying a DoT. Sometimes one must look at how well ultimate's work together with one another and how it effects groups playing together, I am not saying Standard is a super amazing be all end all ultimate, but what I am saying is that the concept of Area Denial builds is a sound strategical move for objective based fights, while you said it was a joke.

on a scale of 1 to 10, negate is sitting at 9 while standart is sitting at 2-3.
a well placed negate is an opportunit to insta-wipe even the strongest, most coordinated groups,while a standart is just gonna change their general direction for like... 2 seconds, but they will most likely just ignore it.

I speak based on my in game experience, not on concepts.
And that experience is, that standart is meme tier ult, and placing a negate instead will ALWAYS benefit you more.
And if you want defile, you can always have a warden.

Elusiin

Make the standard a mini enclosed space that enemies, and yourself/allies cannot walk into or out of. That would be interesting, especially for 1vx.

Valykc

Here’s my idea for shifting standard: Shifting standard (Could be called Call to Arms or Rallying Standard). Main idea, create an ult that would work well in PvP and have some use in PvE. The Ult would be used when charging into battle situations will allies. Essentially, rallying on the person with the new standard and that person would charge and buff allies and debuff enemies as the charge progresses. Obviously this is just one scenario and it could just be used when trying to “Loot All” on a body and just dropping your ult by mistake due to misclick or lag lol.

The main idea would be to put it on your back and the effect follows you like eye of the storm, still applies major defile and gives you and an X number of allies Minor Evasion and Minor Berserk for X seconds. Drop cost to 150-185 ultimate. Might even be a decent buff in some PvE scenarios.

Or instead of Minor berserk it could give Minor Expedition and Minor Heroism with the Minor Evasion and Major Defile but maybe reduce its damage to balance it out with all the buffs/debuffs. It could be used when charging into keeps and debuffing enemies. Maybe this buff would be too over-the-top but I think any combo of the buffs/debuffs listed could be strong.

Maybe even any large AoE fracture/breach ultimate (Minor or Major) might be a decent buff.

Giving the ult a combination Minor berserk, minor Evasion, Minor Heroism, Minor expedition, major defile, fracture/breach,could create another ult that tanks could use in PvE if the fight won’t last long enough for another Warhorn to generate.

Just my thoughts.

Quantum_V

Nice discussion we've got going on.

Yeah, @Gilliamtherogue I didn't really talk about other ults simply because I don't play other classes, but it was a very good that you brought that up so we can weigh in the power of standard compared to other ults.

I just want to refresh the main point, which some people might be thinking that we're saying that Standard is a weak ult - and it's not. The buff we got with shifting standard made it a lot more viable, had tons of fun moving these around right on top of that annoying healer, haha! The point is that what is has to offer is just not proportional to it's ult cost.

Back in 1.5 major defile wasn't that easy to have, so standard was amazing, one of the only ways to AoE defile people... Well, now we have Duroks, Fassalas, CP, poisons, skills (like warden spores) that bascially make standard a less relevant ult. The changes to it should seek to fix this, maybe add a new effect, like magicka steal, or minor/major heroism for allies inside it.

Gorrest

Is it outdated, I would say so. However, since the Shifting Standard buff I think its in a better spot.

Reasons why I believe this recent buff made it viable.
1. Cant be Negated/Earthgored
2. Allows you to move it more than before
3. Moving it allows you to shackle it every singe time causing massive AOE damage
4. The time is just long enough for Ult regen to allow you to leap inside of your Standard.

The only thing I would say is reduce cost to 200 or increase the duration by around 10 seconds.

Jjitsuboy98

So u guys are saying u can have tgis up 60-80 percent of the time? Seems pretty powerful

DKsUnite

Bring back 35% dmg reduction inside SoM, keep the 15% dmg and we all good.

Subversus

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Its a unique area denial skill that helps my breach holder do it's job. I love it, needs no change imo.

Great synergy for area denial, great buff to the dk who's meant too stand tall and fight.

Its DIFFERENT and situational, like negate. Also it isn't great in small scale and open field. But it's a game changer on a block tank, lock down, breach holding dk.

I disagree, it has worth to one of my characters more than any other, and the game needs more of that and less BIS DBOS type ultimates.

I didn't knew this was a role play thread.
Area denial... rofl.

''guys fall back that DK has a standart up!''

said no one ever, and no one ever will.

how can you compare a game changer ult like negate to a meme tier dk standart? It baffles me to even think about it.

I lold

This guy has no clue what area denial actually means in a game like ESO

Casul

Well not sure how op this would be with pvp (could be a terrible idea with destro ult coordination) but why not give it the opposite effect of the hagravens garden set. Every person inside the ring gets dragged back to the center 1 time while attempting to exit.

paulsimonps

DKsUnite wrote: »

Bring back 35% dmg reduction inside SoM, keep the 15% dmg and we all good.

Could make it give Major Protection while inside it for the caster like they did with Templar's Remembrance.

Trashs1

i dont get it.

if standard is that bad, why does for example @blobsky use it in his newest mag dk footage? i asume he is a good player and also knows mag dk verry well.

Ultimate_Overlord

@Trashs1 Cause every youtuber ever always uses the most optimal build in the game.

Trashs1

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@Trashs1 Cause every youtuber ever always uses the most optimal build in the game.

true... i get the sarcasm in that comment..

Maulkin

Their problem has been balancing the standard out between PvP and PvE I guess. An ultimate that buffs 15% of your damage is very potent so 250 ult cost seems balanced for PvE.

I would change the Sifting Standard significantly. I would make it a PBAoE where a Banner pops up on your back, like the Anka Ra Flame Shapers in Hel Ra. So you don't have to keep pressing the button to move it. I would also make both morphs give the 15% damage mitigation, but leave the damage 15% damage increase to the Standard of Might exclusively. Finally, I would reduce the cost to 200. Since it's now a PBAoE, it would also lose its synergy.

So when compared to another good ult, Permafrost, it would look competitive. Same range, cost and avg damage. One slows 70%, hard CCs opponents while also offering 30% damage reduction to every friendly. The other Major Defiles every enemy and offers 15% damage mitigation to the DK only.

If anything Permafrost still seems marginally better. And that's after significant buffs to Shifting Standard.

Xvorg

Ok, I think we are getting the problem wrongly. SOM is not the problem. VoB is not the problem. Even Nova is not the problem.

The problem came on update 12... remember?

Tell me, besides some lame tactics, is there anything good that weapon ultimates has given us? For me, nothing. Since some months ago I'm trying to avoid using those skills. They had helped a lot to make this game a zerg fest with little mind on it, at the point that great skills with a very good design now are seen as crap.

And even some of those weapon ultis are crap. Lascerate is crap, same as Berserk Strike (even that is BS), or Toxic Barrage, though BS gave rise to a very interesting build (that was nerfed because the carebears complained about cloak, in the same way they cry against Blazing Shield).

So, when comparing a good ulti like standard that required a sentient being using it, with EoTS, which only requires an automaton that is able to press R once the bar reaches 250 ulti... you will immediately think that SOM, or Attro is a bad ulti. Is there any reason to slot it PvP when I can use Eye of the stupid design?

Is there any reason to run a wonderful ulti like Magma Armor when you can go for the dumb Shield ulti? Any reason to go templar healer with that Resto ulti that has a free cast of 3 of the most important skills in the resto line?

Anyway, weapon ultis are not the most important reason why the game have come to this current "zergstatus", but they have helped a lot... and I see no changes in the next future...

Xvorg

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I'd argue the problem is the ready availability of PBAoE ults (Destro is the obvious offender, though Bats fits there too) or cheaper, more reliable ults (dawnbreaker, meteor).

Though bats used to be one of the most annoying ultis pre- 1T, we have to acknowldge Bats required you to be a Vamp and at the same time be used with a set like stygan to be somewhat effective (old clouding... I miss it).

EotSD does not require anything, at the point you can swap bars while using it. There's no drawbacks on slotting it and that makes it a worse design decision compared to Bats.

There's even a set that increases its spell dmg as long as you have a destro bar slotted and that set is not even used...

Solariken

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Its a unique area denial skill that helps my breach holder do it's job. I love it, needs no change imo.

Great synergy for area denial, great buff to the dk who's meant too stand tall and fight.

Its DIFFERENT and situational, like negate. Also it isn't great in small scale and open field. But it's a game changer on a block tank, lock down, breach holding dk.

I disagree, it has worth to one of my characters more than any other, and the game needs more of that and less BIS DBOS type ultimates.

I agree here, it's already very strong situationally and very fun to use. A snare could make sense to add, but then Nova becomes even more pale in comparison (at least for any PvP purpose whatsoever). I also think DBOS needs to lose the stun to bring it in line but I bet a lot of people would flip a nut if they did this.

idk

OMG. 3 long paragraphs for OP to merely state his OPPONION on the ultimate. Tip, devs would be asleep by the time they got to the third paragraph. No offense, just making a point to help next time.

The OP seems to want Standard to be a healing Ult since he is comparing it to two different healing ults.

I stopped reading at that point since either OP wants Standard to become a healing ultimate or he lacks an understanding of how to make a point/ compare related items.

Hopefully someone else has figured out that the heck he's saying.

Quantum_V

idk wrote: »

OMG. 3 long paragraphs for OP to merely state his OPPONION on the ultimate. Tip, devs would be asleep by the time they got to the third paragraph. No offense, just making a point to help next time.

The OP seems to want Standard to be a healing Ult since he is comparing it to two different healing ults.

I stopped reading at that point since either OP wants Standard to become a healing ultimate or he lacks an understanding of how to make a point/ compare related items.

Hopefully someone else has figured out that the heck he's saying.

Are you actually complaining/thinking that 3 paragraphs is long?

3 long paragraphs... you probably don't read much.

Xvorg

idk wrote: »

OMG. 3 long paragraphs for OP to merely state his OPPONION on the ultimate. Tip, devs would be asleep by the time they got to the third paragraph. No offense, just making a point to help next time.

The OP seems to want Standard to be a healing Ult since he is comparing it to two different healing ults.

I stopped reading at that point since either OP wants Standard to become a healing ultimate or he lacks an understanding of how to make a point/ compare related items.

Hopefully someone else has figured out that the heck he's saying.

But he acknowledges something, SoM is not ok. It has lost its uniqueness and utility to "better" (and sometimes cheaper) options of it.

What's the point on being DK using SoM, when you can level any other class and use Elemental Rage, which not only does moar dmg, but also applies the other 2 status effects SoM can't?

Even moar, Ele rage with a lit staff does moar dmg for being an AoE skill AND has a chance of getting concussion, while with an ice staff can apply minor maim...

Anyway, I don't think making it a healing skills would help... Panacea will kick SOM's butt everyday of the week costing half ulti, because it's stupid design...

And I've not even talked about EotSD