Physical/Spell Penetration For PvP

Elusiin

What's the recommended/most efficient amount to have?

Kram8ion

Bra not over 9000

Skullstachio

I Recommend Talking to @paulsimonps about that as he has a detailed and complex Explanation about how penetration works which can be beneficial.

oXI_Viper_IXo

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

Waffennacht

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

paulsimonps

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options/p1

The link contains a thread explaining damage mitigation and how it is calculated, this also explains how penetration acts on resistance and how it would effect another players, or mobs damage mitigation in total.

Vapirko

I wouldn’t go crazy with it. If you’re a LA user then whatever you get from the passives is fine although if you happen to be dw run sharp on the offhand. If you use a 2H a lot of people like maul because it ignores 20% of resistances and that’s usually enough. If you’re SB then you have access to major fracture easily. From all of my playing and all of the builds I’ve watched around 4-5k base pen should be sufficient unless you’re making a specific gank build. If you focus on pen too much more than that then you suffer against shielded aponents imo. What I’ll never understand is why zos nerfed damage tanks and then made a craftable set like fortified brass which offers all the tankiness of heavy in the damage of medium.

Zordrage

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

TheDoomsdayMonster

I run with around 11k Spell Penetration, but that is by design because I have no abilities on my toolbar that debuff my opponents resistances...

Brutusmax1mus

Zoliru wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

Then people like you would be complaining about taking more damage than your sheet says bc of opponent variables.

Brutusmax1mus

Shoot for about 9k between cp, skills, gear. Anything more is fine, but then you need to start thinking about your targets. If you've got 17k pene, don't go for someone with a shield essentially. Generally, getting high penetration means you're sacrificing something to get the best source of damage only enhancement, as long as you meet the conditions (not over penetrating or fighting shields)

Zordrage

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

Then people like you would be complaining about taking more damage than your sheet says bc of opponent variables.

lol people need to be really dumb to complain about that..... everyone with a little brain knows how the Pen and res works but what we don't know is the exact % that is not shown on ANYWHERE in game....
Also Crit AND Crit resistance..... would you say the same if they would not show the % of the crit ?? lol
Crit resist ( opponent variable )

also that is NOT an excuse to troll us with the stats ( not showing or explaining anything about it basically )....
its like having 1000 Crit rating WITHOUT any % info... you know how it works but you don't know how much that crit is increasing your % chance..

you do know that the info/number the guy wrote that i quoted is like the 10th version of the numbers i saw on the internet about this ? yeah.....

how many years now ? and we still having bunch of missing informations on our character sheet.... would be about time devs Update it...

Brutusmax1mus

Zoliru wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

Then people like you would be complaining about taking more damage than your sheet says bc of opponent variables.

lol people need to be really dumb to complain about that..... everyone with a little brain knows how the Pen and res works but what we don't know is the exact % that is not shown on ANYWHERE in game....
Also Crit AND Crit resistance..... would you say the same if they would not show the % of the crit ?? lol
Crit resist ( opponent variable )

also that is NOT an excuse to troll us with the stats ( not showing or explaining anything about it basically )....
its like having 1000 Crit rating WITHOUT any % info... you know how it works but you don't know how much that crit is increasing your % chance..

you do know that the info/number the guy wrote that i quoted is like the 10th version of the numbers i saw on the internet about this ? yeah.....

how many years now ? and we still having bunch of missing informations on our character sheet.... would be about time devs Update it...

You didn't say penetrations damage increase and crit resistance damage reduction. Both of which calculates several variables from two parties, not just your own statistics.

Penetration should be shown on the character sheet, it would be nice. It still wouldn't tell you how hard you'll hit an opponent unless it assumed the opponent had certain stats, which would be dumb.

Minno

Zoliru wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

Then people like you would be complaining about taking more damage than your sheet says bc of opponent variables.

lol people need to be really dumb to complain about that..... everyone with a little brain knows how the Pen and res works but what we don't know is the exact % that is not shown on ANYWHERE in game....
Also Crit AND Crit resistance..... would you say the same if they would not show the % of the crit ?? lol
Crit resist ( opponent variable )

also that is NOT an excuse to troll us with the stats ( not showing or explaining anything about it basically )....
its like having 1000 Crit rating WITHOUT any % info... you know how it works but you don't know how much that crit is increasing your % chance..

you do know that the info/number the guy wrote that i quoted is like the 10th version of the numbers i saw on the internet about this ? yeah.....

how many years now ? and we still having bunch of missing informations on our character sheet.... would be about time devs Update it...

It's not about trolling, it's about the fact this information was back-calculated based on rigerous testing by many people. No devs would makes this information easy to find or let you have easy access to it's impact on the character sheet.

OP asked for the quick reference, and waffenact have a quick answer. Other people linked the equation thread for when OP is ready to do some reading, and that's fine.

idk

Vapirko wrote: »

I wouldn’t go crazy with it. If you’re a LA user then whatever you get from the passives is fine although if you happen to be dw run sharp on the offhand. If you use a 2H a lot of people like maul because it ignores 20% of resistances and that’s usually enough. If you’re SB then you have access to major fracture easily. From all of my playing and all of the builds I’ve watched around 4-5k base pen should be sufficient unless you’re making a specific gank build. If you focus on pen too much more than that then you suffer against shielded aponents imo. What I’ll never understand is why zos nerfed damage tanks and then made a craftable set like fortified brass which offers all the tankiness of heavy in the damage of medium.

True. Someone was trying to say yesterday that axe is better than maul since the bleed ignores armor. Maui incressss all damage giving a big uptick to both burst and keeptikg pressure on. The ace only affects one thing and has rng and is a long dot.

Brutusmax1mus

idk wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I wouldn’t go crazy with it. If you’re a LA user then whatever you get from the passives is fine although if you happen to be dw run sharp on the offhand. If you use a 2H a lot of people like maul because it ignores 20% of resistances and that’s usually enough. If you’re SB then you have access to major fracture easily. From all of my playing and all of the builds I’ve watched around 4-5k base pen should be sufficient unless you’re making a specific gank build. If you focus on pen too much more than that then you suffer against shielded aponents imo. What I’ll never understand is why zos nerfed damage tanks and then made a craftable set like fortified brass which offers all the tankiness of heavy in the damage of medium.

True. Someone was trying to say yesterday that axe is better than maul since the bleed ignores armor. Maui incressss all damage giving a big uptick to both burst and keeptikg pressure on. The ace only affects one thing and has rng and is a long dot.

But the mauls reduction is after all other mitigation is applied, so if you fully penetrate or knock the armor down to a few thousand, the maul is a waste. 4 to 5k non mitigated, non blockable damage over 6 seconds is outstanding.

Lexxypwns

Major breach/fracture + concentration + 51 in spell erosion on magika armor builds (~15k pen)

Major breach/fracture + 51 in spell erosion on stam builds(~10k pen)

Edit: don’t make significant efforts to increase penetration imo, the “base” available is enough also, @idk is wrong in this thread also

Apache_Kid

Minno wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

Then people like you would be complaining about taking more damage than your sheet says bc of opponent variables.

lol people need to be really dumb to complain about that..... everyone with a little brain knows how the Pen and res works but what we don't know is the exact % that is not shown on ANYWHERE in game....
Also Crit AND Crit resistance..... would you say the same if they would not show the % of the crit ?? lol
Crit resist ( opponent variable )

also that is NOT an excuse to troll us with the stats ( not showing or explaining anything about it basically )....
its like having 1000 Crit rating WITHOUT any % info... you know how it works but you don't know how much that crit is increasing your % chance..

you do know that the info/number the guy wrote that i quoted is like the 10th version of the numbers i saw on the internet about this ? yeah.....

how many years now ? and we still having bunch of missing informations on our character sheet.... would be about time devs Update it...

It's not about trolling, it's about the fact this information was back-calculated based on rigerous testing by many people. No devs would makes this information easy to find or let you have easy access to it's impact on the character sheet.

OP asked for the quick reference, and waffenact have a quick answer. Other people linked the equation thread for when OP is ready to do some reading, and that's fine.

Why should stats that many different items give bonuses to that have a hard or a soft cap in-game not be readily available to players at all times? We should not have to do math to figure this stuff out. It's a video game.

Minno

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

Then people like you would be complaining about taking more damage than your sheet says bc of opponent variables.

lol people need to be really dumb to complain about that..... everyone with a little brain knows how the Pen and res works but what we don't know is the exact % that is not shown on ANYWHERE in game....
Also Crit AND Crit resistance..... would you say the same if they would not show the % of the crit ?? lol
Crit resist ( opponent variable )

also that is NOT an excuse to troll us with the stats ( not showing or explaining anything about it basically )....
its like having 1000 Crit rating WITHOUT any % info... you know how it works but you don't know how much that crit is increasing your % chance..

you do know that the info/number the guy wrote that i quoted is like the 10th version of the numbers i saw on the internet about this ? yeah.....

how many years now ? and we still having bunch of missing informations on our character sheet.... would be about time devs Update it...

It's not about trolling, it's about the fact this information was back-calculated based on rigerous testing by many people. No devs would makes this information easy to find or let you have easy access to it's impact on the character sheet.

OP asked for the quick reference, and waffenact have a quick answer. Other people linked the equation thread for when OP is ready to do some reading, and that's fine.

Why should stats that many different items give bonuses to that have a hard or a soft cap in-game not be readily available to players at all times? We should not have to do math to figure this stuff out. It's a video game.

Welcome to RPGs and MMO's, sadly. At least we aren't playing dungeons and dragons lol.

Apache_Kid

Minno wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

Then people like you would be complaining about taking more damage than your sheet says bc of opponent variables.

lol people need to be really dumb to complain about that..... everyone with a little brain knows how the Pen and res works but what we don't know is the exact % that is not shown on ANYWHERE in game....
Also Crit AND Crit resistance..... would you say the same if they would not show the % of the crit ?? lol
Crit resist ( opponent variable )

also that is NOT an excuse to troll us with the stats ( not showing or explaining anything about it basically )....
its like having 1000 Crit rating WITHOUT any % info... you know how it works but you don't know how much that crit is increasing your % chance..

you do know that the info/number the guy wrote that i quoted is like the 10th version of the numbers i saw on the internet about this ? yeah.....

how many years now ? and we still having bunch of missing informations on our character sheet.... would be about time devs Update it...

It's not about trolling, it's about the fact this information was back-calculated based on rigerous testing by many people. No devs would makes this information easy to find or let you have easy access to it's impact on the character sheet.

OP asked for the quick reference, and waffenact have a quick answer. Other people linked the equation thread for when OP is ready to do some reading, and that's fine.

Why should stats that many different items give bonuses to that have a hard or a soft cap in-game not be readily available to players at all times? We should not have to do math to figure this stuff out. It's a video game.

Welcome to RPGs and MMO's, sadly. At least we aren't playing dungeons and dragons lol.

I mean, I've played many, many, many, different RPGs and never found myself busting out the abacus to do calculations just to figure out my character stats. This is the first MMO ive gotten seriously involved in and have been only a causal player in others so i can't comment on them too much. Either way my argument still stands that penetration should be visible on the character sheet. There is no good excuse in my opinion to hid this information other than to attempt to deceive the player.

Minno

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

Then people like you would be complaining about taking more damage than your sheet says bc of opponent variables.

lol people need to be really dumb to complain about that..... everyone with a little brain knows how the Pen and res works but what we don't know is the exact % that is not shown on ANYWHERE in game....
Also Crit AND Crit resistance..... would you say the same if they would not show the % of the crit ?? lol
Crit resist ( opponent variable )

also that is NOT an excuse to troll us with the stats ( not showing or explaining anything about it basically )....
its like having 1000 Crit rating WITHOUT any % info... you know how it works but you don't know how much that crit is increasing your % chance..

you do know that the info/number the guy wrote that i quoted is like the 10th version of the numbers i saw on the internet about this ? yeah.....

how many years now ? and we still having bunch of missing informations on our character sheet.... would be about time devs Update it...

It's not about trolling, it's about the fact this information was back-calculated based on rigerous testing by many people. No devs would makes this information easy to find or let you have easy access to it's impact on the character sheet.

OP asked for the quick reference, and waffenact have a quick answer. Other people linked the equation thread for when OP is ready to do some reading, and that's fine.

Why should stats that many different items give bonuses to that have a hard or a soft cap in-game not be readily available to players at all times? We should not have to do math to figure this stuff out. It's a video game.

Welcome to RPGs and MMO's, sadly. At least we aren't playing dungeons and dragons lol.

I mean, I've played many, many, many, different RPGs and never found myself busting out the abacus to do calculations just to figure out my character stats. This is the first MMO ive gotten seriously involved in and have been only a causal player in others so i can't comment on them too much. Either way my argument still stands that penetration should be visible on the character sheet. There is no good excuse in my opinion to hid this information other than to attempt to deceive the player.

penetration is the easier one to find out though. add your sources of penetration to get the amount (including 100 base).

Calculating how it impacts the enemy is a different story; you'll need to put some math work in. It's similar to why they removed access to the API that let you see your enemy's resource pool easily; its not fair to have that information easily available.

Waffennacht

Zoliru wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

Then people like you would be complaining about taking more damage than your sheet says bc of opponent variables.

lol people need to be really dumb to complain about that..... everyone with a little brain knows how the Pen and res works but what we don't know is the exact % that is not shown on ANYWHERE in game....
Also Crit AND Crit resistance..... would you say the same if they would not show the % of the crit ?? lol
Crit resist ( opponent variable )

also that is NOT an excuse to troll us with the stats ( not showing or explaining anything about it basically )....
its like having 1000 Crit rating WITHOUT any % info... you know how it works but you don't know how much that crit is increasing your % chance..

you do know that the info/number the guy wrote that i quoted is like the 10th version of the numbers i saw on the internet about this ? yeah.....

how many years now ? and we still having bunch of missing informations on our character sheet.... would be about time devs Update it...

I said it before and will say it again, ESO's tutorial = Bash, block, heavy attack and light attack, welcome to ESO, figure it out MFer"

Apache_Kid

Minno wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

okay so tell us where this info is inside the game ? oh yeah nowhere...

how HARD is it for zeni to just ADD the % dmg reduction we get from it to the character sheet ?? like really ???

Then people like you would be complaining about taking more damage than your sheet says bc of opponent variables.

lol people need to be really dumb to complain about that..... everyone with a little brain knows how the Pen and res works but what we don't know is the exact % that is not shown on ANYWHERE in game....
Also Crit AND Crit resistance..... would you say the same if they would not show the % of the crit ?? lol
Crit resist ( opponent variable )

also that is NOT an excuse to troll us with the stats ( not showing or explaining anything about it basically )....
its like having 1000 Crit rating WITHOUT any % info... you know how it works but you don't know how much that crit is increasing your % chance..

you do know that the info/number the guy wrote that i quoted is like the 10th version of the numbers i saw on the internet about this ? yeah.....

how many years now ? and we still having bunch of missing informations on our character sheet.... would be about time devs Update it...

It's not about trolling, it's about the fact this information was back-calculated based on rigerous testing by many people. No devs would makes this information easy to find or let you have easy access to it's impact on the character sheet.

OP asked for the quick reference, and waffenact have a quick answer. Other people linked the equation thread for when OP is ready to do some reading, and that's fine.

Why should stats that many different items give bonuses to that have a hard or a soft cap in-game not be readily available to players at all times? We should not have to do math to figure this stuff out. It's a video game.

Welcome to RPGs and MMO's, sadly. At least we aren't playing dungeons and dragons lol.

I mean, I've played many, many, many, different RPGs and never found myself busting out the abacus to do calculations just to figure out my character stats. This is the first MMO ive gotten seriously involved in and have been only a causal player in others so i can't comment on them too much. Either way my argument still stands that penetration should be visible on the character sheet. There is no good excuse in my opinion to hid this information other than to attempt to deceive the player.

penetration is the easier one to find out though. add your sources of penetration to get the amount (including 100 base).

Calculating how it impacts the enemy is a different story; you'll need to put some math work in. It's similar to why they removed access to the API that let you see your enemy's resource pool easily; its not fair to have that information easily available.

Yeah but what I'm saying is that I shouldn't have to go through all of my pieces and skills that increase it and add them up. My weapon/spell damage doesn't have to be added up by me. Neither does regen or max resources. Why does penetration? It doesn't make any sense. I'm not asking for any information on my enemy or anything like that. Simply the ability to see my penetration on my character sheet without having to add it all up and potentially missing something small and getting a wrong number. I don't think this is unreasonable and do not see any argument for keeping wepaon/spell penetration off the character sheet.

Vermintide

OK so. I've always wondered about this too. If I'm running something like 5 LA, sharpened staves, and a spinners set... Am I "over penetrating"?

Typically I'll run 5 seducer 5 spinner, or 5 julianos 5 spinner. Seems to work well, I have no need for mark/ele drain slotted. However it's not a combination people seem to recommend.

What's the score? What am I missing out on that would be better?

Beardimus

^ guess it depends how you rollin. Pros and cons

Organised group with Breach up and you have less need of spinners. Solo and you need bar space different story

The 'best' setup is what works for your whole setup.

Gilvoth

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

this above quote is how and why answers get ignored.
point is that this quote gives the impression and answer we are looking for from a developer, and Not from another player.
in addition to that this quote does not even give a source to the developer he/she got that information from.
leading us to a final decision to simply ignore the information and continue to seek an answer from a developer as we were when thread was started.

paulsimonps

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

No one actually knows because Zeni decided it would be a good idea to add all these attributes while providing zero description of what they mean or what they do.

33k resistance= 50% mitigation, or 660 = 1%

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Penetration is the inverse of resistance.

Mitigation from multiple sources is multiplicative

I don't know what more you would need to know

this above quote is how and why answers get ignored.
point is that this quote gives the impression and answer we are looking for from a developer, and Not from another player.
in addition to that this quote does not even give a source to the developer he/she got that information from.
leading us to a final decision to simply ignore the information and continue to seek an answer from a developer as we were when thread was started.

@dwemer_paleologist

You actually expect to get numbers like that from a developer? Like hard numbers on how things are calculated? You expect far far far too much. And here is the deal, all those numbers, player testable and you can, if done right, get the exact same numbers yourself. Saying that you immediately ignore any reverse engineered formula like that cause its not give to you by the developers is just stupid, the formulas work, and you can test it yourself to prove it. Why ignore information like this? The source for all of this is the game, and hours of testing by dedicated fans of the game, I did it for fun and to help people understand the game better, very rude of you to simply dismiss it off hand just cause I don't for for Zenimax.

As well, the bold'ed part, you are not the OP of this thread, do you know their intentions regarding this thread? Cause it seems to me they are simply asking for a recommendation for stats for their build. Many people have given great suggestion based on their experience and others of us have provided information that goes well with said suggestions so that the OP can make a wise and educated decision that will best suit their own play style and build. Don't expect answers like this from developers, their answer will be, "its player testable".

On a side note, I do agree that penetration should be a base function on our stat sheet, but do remember that it will not include debuffs on enemies such as Major/Minor Breach/Fracture or other set bonuses.

Gilvoth

when you answer as if your word is that of a developer, that is what i was have a problem with, and you know this.

paulsimonps

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

when you answer as if your word is that of a developer, that is what i was have a problem with, and you know this.

Do I? I mean we comment giving out information we know to be true, we tested it, multiple times. Why should we give our information out acting like it might be false when it isn't? When we know that is how it works.

SodanTok

So any penetration is over penetrating shields (lets assume that is 1/4 - 1/3 of cyrodiil)
Any penetration above 9k is over penetrating light armor builds (1/3 of cyrodiil)
Any penetration above 12k is over penetrating medium armor builds (still probably 1/3 of cyrodiil)
Any penetration above 15k is over penetrating heavy armor builds (1/3 of cyrodiil)

Add +5k because at least half of cyrodiil will be running some major ward/resolve .
Add 2.5k to phys penetration against heavy and spell penetration against light because of passives.

Now if I ignore the shields and the specific armor passives, because they just confuse things the average penetration to get is around 14k.
Now the too specific things mix it a little.
You need to breach shields to kill the users, penetration wont help you with that all all and most users under them will have less resistance than you have penetration (with 14k)
The value of your penetration is less effective the closer you are to targets resistance. Getting 1000 penetration is much more valuable if you have nothing than if you have 14k and fighting heavy armor build.
You usually need to survive the fight unless you are ganker and penetration does not help with that at all, but crits, damage and resources do.

Based on these things and this is just my opinion, the most efficient value for penetration moves at 50-75% of the average (so 7-10k). At that point there will be barely any over penetration (unless against shield) and you will enjoy the most impactful part of penetration (having nearly always at least half of targets resistance).

tldr; Just get 7-10k and let it be. Including any debuff you may have (minor major breach/fracture)

idk

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I wouldn’t go crazy with it. If you’re a LA user then whatever you get from the passives is fine although if you happen to be dw run sharp on the offhand. If you use a 2H a lot of people like maul because it ignores 20% of resistances and that’s usually enough. If you’re SB then you have access to major fracture easily. From all of my playing and all of the builds I’ve watched around 4-5k base pen should be sufficient unless you’re making a specific gank build. If you focus on pen too much more than that then you suffer against shielded aponents imo. What I’ll never understand is why zos nerfed damage tanks and then made a craftable set like fortified brass which offers all the tankiness of heavy in the damage of medium.

True. Someone was trying to say yesterday that axe is better than maul since the bleed ignores armor. Maui incressss all damage giving a big uptick to both burst and keeptikg pressure on. The ace only affects one thing and has rng and is a long dot.

But the mauls reduction is after all other mitigation is applied, so if you fully penetrate or knock the armor down to a few thousand, the maul is a waste. 4 to 5k non mitigated, non blockable damage over 6 seconds is outstanding.

And that would be with very specific builds getting their armor own elsewhere and somewhat specific targets. The comment I was speaking of, just like the OP here, is speaking in very general terms.

I am fully aware of armor pen and understand some lvl targets have less than 33k resist while others have uo to 50k resist. It's very basic to PvP builds.

So it's not dealing with ifs and butts.