wish we could scrap evasion and get something else...

dsalter · December 2017

ESO just doesnt need evasion chances, thats what activly dodge rolling is for. just shoving shuffle and dodge rolling every so often on can really cripple any form of damage you can deal in most cases.
why cant we replace with with a chance to reflect?
its a defensive effect, same function as dodge roll, doesnt completely nullify the attacks, doesnt make dodge builds so bloody fustrating.
its a buff since it can help them deal damage instead of taking it, but a nerf since theres no more of this broken lingering dodge every projectile in that short time frame thing.

Izaki · December 2017

I'd say that Evasion in general needs to be changed. But reflecting isn't the way to go IMO.

The snare removal should be the primary function of both Blur and Evasion and the snare immunity should last longer. As far as the "secondary effects" of both skills, they would need to be changed accordingly so as to not make the skills too strong or too weak.

idk · December 2017

No offense to your oppinion but just because Simone does not like a skill does not mean the game shouldn't have it.

Its part of the defenses available to stamina and would require changes elsewhere in the game to remove it as you would like. Heck, magicka bases shield would be one Area that would need to be significantly reduced or removed.

Further, much is not reflected based on the DK shield and it would be useless for melee skills. Hence making it significantly weaker than magicka defenses.

Adenoma · December 2017

I agree with removing rng evasion. We really need snare removal based on the current game state and it really murders some classes and build diversity. Basically, I have to pick one of three options: mistform, 2h for forward momentum, or medium armor for shuffle. That doesn't really get me going.

idk · December 2017

I agree with removing magicka based shields and making them merely snare removal. Not sure what the secondary effect should be.

It would be interesting to see the reasoning you guys have for evasion rather than it make it so hard for me to kill someone becaaue that's isn't a reason

dsalter · December 2017

idk wrote: »

No offense to your oppinion but just because Simone does not like a skill does not mean the game shouldn't have it.

Its part of the defenses available to stamina and would require changes elsewhere in the game to remove it as you would like. Heck, magicka bases shield would be one Area that would need to be significantly reduced or removed.

Further, much is not reflected based on the DK shield and it would be useless for melee skills. Hence making it significantly weaker than magicka defenses.

pretty sure evasion was designed with range in mind since the counter for strong melee is not let them get in range at all.
could just give the evasion buff the ability to reduce how long stun immunity works or some crap, anything than this irritating evasion frame, so buggy i'v seen one roll alone dodge tons of crap a zerg could throw at a guy only for the evasion follow up to keep dodging long after they'v stopped rolling.

idk · December 2017

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense to your oppinion but just because Simone does not like a skill does not mean the game shouldn't have it.

Its part of the defenses available to stamina and would require changes elsewhere in the game to remove it as you would like. Heck, magicka bases shield would be one Area that would need to be significantly reduced or removed.

Further, much is not reflected based on the DK shield and it would be useless for melee skills. Hence making it significantly weaker than magicka defenses.

pretty sure evasion was designed with range in mind since the counter for strong melee is not let them get in range at all.
could just give the evasion buff the ability to reduce how long stun immunity works or some crap, anything than this irritating evasion frame, so buggy i'v seen one roll alone dodge tons of crap a zerg could throw at a guy only for the evasion follow up to keep dodging long after they'v stopped rolling.

You'd be incorrect with that assumption. Especially since there are defensive skills in the game that are specifically stated for ranged attacks. Evasion buff and the skills they are tied to make no such statement.

Further proof is a crafted set that clearly intended more for tanking offers the evasion buff when blocking. No mention when blocking against range attacks only.

dsalter · December 2017

idk wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense to your oppinion but just because Simone does not like a skill does not mean the game shouldn't have it.

Its part of the defenses available to stamina and would require changes elsewhere in the game to remove it as you would like. Heck, magicka bases shield would be one Area that would need to be significantly reduced or removed.

Further, much is not reflected based on the DK shield and it would be useless for melee skills. Hence making it significantly weaker than magicka defenses.

pretty sure evasion was designed with range in mind since the counter for strong melee is not let them get in range at all.
could just give the evasion buff the ability to reduce how long stun immunity works or some crap, anything than this irritating evasion frame, so buggy i'v seen one roll alone dodge tons of crap a zerg could throw at a guy only for the evasion follow up to keep dodging long after they'v stopped rolling.

You'd be incorrect with that assumption. Especially since there are defensive skills in the game that are specifically stated for ranged attacks. Evasion buff and the skills they are tied to make no such statement.

Further proof is a crafted set that clearly intended more for tanking offers the evasion buff when blocking. No mention when blocking against range attacks only.

i actually have that set on an alt of mine and its more balanced than passive dodge abilities due to needing to keep block held so its ACTIVELY giving you a CHANCE, so its not a fire and forget complete damage negating button.

idk · December 2017

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense to your oppinion but just because Simone does not like a skill does not mean the game shouldn't have it.

Its part of the defenses available to stamina and would require changes elsewhere in the game to remove it as you would like. Heck, magicka bases shield would be one Area that would need to be significantly reduced or removed.

Further, much is not reflected based on the DK shield and it would be useless for melee skills. Hence making it significantly weaker than magicka defenses.

pretty sure evasion was designed with range in mind since the counter for strong melee is not let them get in range at all.
could just give the evasion buff the ability to reduce how long stun immunity works or some crap, anything than this irritating evasion frame, so buggy i'v seen one roll alone dodge tons of crap a zerg could throw at a guy only for the evasion follow up to keep dodging long after they'v stopped rolling.

You'd be incorrect with that assumption. Especially since there are defensive skills in the game that are specifically stated for ranged attacks. Evasion buff and the skills they are tied to make no such statement.

Further proof is a crafted set that clearly intended more for tanking offers the evasion buff when blocking. No mention when blocking against range attacks only.

i actually have that set on an alt of mine and its more balanced than passive dodge abilities due to needing to keep block held so its ACTIVELY giving you a CHANCE, so its not a fire and forget complete damage negating button.

It's irrelevant and does not back up your incorrect assumption. Especially since in many PvE fights I can practically permablock.

Not that I am worried. Players can kill those with evasion running so it's not OP.

dsalter · December 2017

idk wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense to your oppinion but just because Simone does not like a skill does not mean the game shouldn't have it.

Its part of the defenses available to stamina and would require changes elsewhere in the game to remove it as you would like. Heck, magicka bases shield would be one Area that would need to be significantly reduced or removed.

Further, much is not reflected based on the DK shield and it would be useless for melee skills. Hence making it significantly weaker than magicka defenses.

pretty sure evasion was designed with range in mind since the counter for strong melee is not let them get in range at all.
could just give the evasion buff the ability to reduce how long stun immunity works or some crap, anything than this irritating evasion frame, so buggy i'v seen one roll alone dodge tons of crap a zerg could throw at a guy only for the evasion follow up to keep dodging long after they'v stopped rolling.

You'd be incorrect with that assumption. Especially since there are defensive skills in the game that are specifically stated for ranged attacks. Evasion buff and the skills they are tied to make no such statement.

Further proof is a crafted set that clearly intended more for tanking offers the evasion buff when blocking. No mention when blocking against range attacks only.

i actually have that set on an alt of mine and its more balanced than passive dodge abilities due to needing to keep block held so its ACTIVELY giving you a CHANCE, so its not a fire and forget complete damage negating button.

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense to your oppinion but just because Simone does not like a skill does not mean the game shouldn't have it.

Its part of the defenses available to stamina and would require changes elsewhere in the game to remove it as you would like. Heck, magicka bases shield would be one Area that would need to be significantly reduced or removed.

Further, much is not reflected based on the DK shield and it would be useless for melee skills. Hence making it significantly weaker than magicka defenses.

pretty sure evasion was designed with range in mind since the counter for strong melee is not let them get in range at all.
could just give the evasion buff the ability to reduce how long stun immunity works or some crap, anything than this irritating evasion frame, so buggy i'v seen one roll alone dodge tons of crap a zerg could throw at a guy only for the evasion follow up to keep dodging long after they'v stopped rolling.

You'd be incorrect with that assumption. Especially since there are defensive skills in the game that are specifically stated for ranged attacks. Evasion buff and the skills they are tied to make no such statement.

Further proof is a crafted set that clearly intended more for tanking offers the evasion buff when blocking. No mention when blocking against range attacks only.

i actually have that set on an alt of mine and its more balanced than passive dodge abilities due to needing to keep block held so its ACTIVELY giving you a CHANCE, so its not a fire and forget complete damage negating button.

It's irrelevant and does not back up your incorrect assumption. Especially since in many PvE fights I can practically permablock.

Not that I am worried. Players can kill those with evasion running so it's not OP.

now your just mis-directing the topic onto perma blocking. it's not that its under or overpowered, its just mechanically broken. same as animation cancelling. no matter how often people say "git gud it feture nub" it'll still be an engine flaw that never got fixed, give a broken engine a new coat of paint, new shiny bits, a new name, it's still a broken engine.

dodge, as it stands now when triggered gives you this grace period that KEEPS dodging which on its own is pretty strong, add a bonus chance of free dodges without repercussion or actively doing the bonus dodges and it becomes absurd, especially since those dodges also have a mini grace period.

now from side other side of things, you have to abuse animation cancelling to pump out faster hits to smash into those periods where dodge ISNT in effect, even then you have to cross fingers the zeni fairy isnt blessing their RNG and triggering the free "all current hits will miss" evasion grace period, wasting every bit of effort and resource fired at that moment while senior medium user didnt put in any extra effort to trigger it besides running a buff from like 10-15seconds ago.

on the other side you have to cross fingers you'll keep hitting grace periods often enough to get low cost rolls again so you can continue to sustain a fight relying mostly on RNG to get anything done. the only counter to your cheese here is soul assault, standing in stupid, or radiant which is pretty much your dead anyways if you dropped low enough to make it viable to begin with, meaning if i wanted tonot die, i'd have to not stand in red, rub my lucky rabbits foot that i keep procing and kiss it to make sure no enemy is running beams.

see how bad that is relying on pure luck for must of your survival+fighting?

idk · December 2017

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense to your oppinion but just because Simone does not like a skill does not mean the game shouldn't have it.

Its part of the defenses available to stamina and would require changes elsewhere in the game to remove it as you would like. Heck, magicka bases shield would be one Area that would need to be significantly reduced or removed.

Further, much is not reflected based on the DK shield and it would be useless for melee skills. Hence making it significantly weaker than magicka defenses.

pretty sure evasion was designed with range in mind since the counter for strong melee is not let them get in range at all.
could just give the evasion buff the ability to reduce how long stun immunity works or some crap, anything than this irritating evasion frame, so buggy i'v seen one roll alone dodge tons of crap a zerg could throw at a guy only for the evasion follow up to keep dodging long after they'v stopped rolling.

You'd be incorrect with that assumption. Especially since there are defensive skills in the game that are specifically stated for ranged attacks. Evasion buff and the skills they are tied to make no such statement.

Further proof is a crafted set that clearly intended more for tanking offers the evasion buff when blocking. No mention when blocking against range attacks only.

i actually have that set on an alt of mine and its more balanced than passive dodge abilities due to needing to keep block held so its ACTIVELY giving you a CHANCE, so its not a fire and forget complete damage negating button.

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense to your oppinion but just because Simone does not like a skill does not mean the game shouldn't have it.

Its part of the defenses available to stamina and would require changes elsewhere in the game to remove it as you would like. Heck, magicka bases shield would be one Area that would need to be significantly reduced or removed.

Further, much is not reflected based on the DK shield and it would be useless for melee skills. Hence making it significantly weaker than magicka defenses.

pretty sure evasion was designed with range in mind since the counter for strong melee is not let them get in range at all.
could just give the evasion buff the ability to reduce how long stun immunity works or some crap, anything than this irritating evasion frame, so buggy i'v seen one roll alone dodge tons of crap a zerg could throw at a guy only for the evasion follow up to keep dodging long after they'v stopped rolling.

You'd be incorrect with that assumption. Especially since there are defensive skills in the game that are specifically stated for ranged attacks. Evasion buff and the skills they are tied to make no such statement.

Further proof is a crafted set that clearly intended more for tanking offers the evasion buff when blocking. No mention when blocking against range attacks only.

i actually have that set on an alt of mine and its more balanced than passive dodge abilities due to needing to keep block held so its ACTIVELY giving you a CHANCE, so its not a fire and forget complete damage negating button.

It's irrelevant and does not back up your incorrect assumption. Especially since in many PvE fights I can practically permablock.

Not that I am worried. Players can kill those with evasion running so it's not OP.

now your just mis-directing the topic onto perma blocking. it's not that its under or overpowered, its just mechanically broken. same as animation cancelling. no matter how often people say "git gud it feture nub" it'll still be an engine flaw that never got fixed, give a broken engine a new coat of paint, new shiny bits, a new name, it's still a broken engine.

dodge, as it stands now when triggered gives you this grace period that KEEPS dodging which on its own is pretty strong, add a bonus chance of free dodges without repercussion or actively doing the bonus dodges and it becomes absurd, especially since those dodges also have a mini grace period.

now from side other side of things, you have to abuse animation cancelling to pump out faster hits to smash into those periods where dodge ISNT in effect, even then you have to cross fingers the zeni fairy isnt blessing their RNG and triggering the free "all current hits will miss" evasion grace period, wasting every bit of effort and resource fired at that moment while senior medium user didnt put in any extra effort to trigger it besides running a buff from like 10-15seconds ago.

on the other side you have to cross fingers you'll keep hitting grace periods often enough to get low cost rolls again so you can continue to sustain a fight relying mostly on RNG to get anything done. the only counter to your cheese here is soul assault, standing in stupid, or radiant which is pretty much your dead anyways if you dropped low enough to make it viable to begin with, meaning if i wanted tonot die, i'd have to not stand in red, rub my lucky rabbits foot that i keep procing and kiss it to make sure no enemy is running beams.

see how bad that is relying on pure luck for must of your survival+fighting?

So your going to turn this into an AC thread?

AC isn't broken and it's legitiypart of the game that has been reinforced at least twice during this last year at the most basic level.

I asked someone to describe why evasion was such an issue in the game other than "it's just to hard to kill someone who uses it". Your response was based in an incorrect assumption with no bassis from the game.

So it does seem that you merely find it to challenging to deal with.

Now your going to AC. It's not an engine flaw by any means and you have nothing to back up that claim. It's merely animations do. It reflect that actual time required for the skill. Every skill has a minimum time required and no one can break that built in gcd.

Just because it's a challenge for you doesn't mean it's broken. An experienced player with a good solid build should be a challenge to kill and to survive against. It's the first rule of PvP. Skill trumps everything and choice of build is a close second.

I'm not going to say Git Gud but I would suggest you figure out how to overcome rather than ask for the game to be nerfed so it's convenient to you. You'll enjoy the game so much more.

And your saying evasion relies on pure luck (low odds of it procing yes magicka has great shields with 100% chance of procing and doesn't take the critical bonus damage.

I am not really calming for shield nerf as I am in PvP as magicka most often. Though I don't really have an issue with evasion like some seem to have. Just putting things into perspective.

kessik221 · December 2017

The argument to be made for the other 2 skill lines ability vs evasion is that you can build to counter the other 2 via penetration or oblivion damage, passive dodge has no counter. Medium armor is supposed to be about mobility so redesigning this skill with that in mind would make more sense. Perhaps granting major expedition for 8 seconds in addition to its current morphs?

React · December 2017

I'm all for removing evasion, but if you don't replace it with either A. A strong defensive passive or B. A max stam percentage or flat buff then medium armor will die completley. Sad but true.

idk · December 2017

kessik221 wrote: »

The argument to be made for the other 2 skill lines ability vs evasion is that you can build to counter the other 2 via penetration or oblivion damage, passive dodge has no counter. Medium armor is supposed to be about mobility so redesigning this skill with that in mind would make more sense. Perhaps granting major expedition for 8 seconds in addition to its current morphs?

Not really. 100% chance to negate a known amount if damage vs RNG. Huge difference.

It does appear this small group here plays magicka. Makes sense.

NyassaV · December 2017

Reflecting it is stupid... I want to hit myself with that 12k Grim proc because someone randomly dodged... But yeah can we do away with evasion

Alpheu5 · December 2017

idk wrote: »

No offense to your oppinion but just because Simone does not like a skill does not mean the game shouldn't have it.

Its part of the defenses available to stamina and would require changes elsewhere in the game to remove it as you would like. Heck, magicka bases shield would be one Area that would need to be significantly reduced or removed.

Further, much is not reflected based on the DK shield and it would be useless for melee skills. Hence making it significantly weaker than magicka defenses.

Don't you know that we're supposed to do what Simone Says?

paallterrain148 · December 2017

Remove snare, increase duration of immunity and add 2600 armor value.

kessik221 · December 2017

@idk except that shields can be countered with oblivion damage, like my post stated. Evasion cannot be countered like harness magicka or the heavy armor passive. On top of that compounding the problem, is roll dodge, giving you a much higher rate of sucessfully blocking all damage and added effects. Even if you are wearing a shield, if you are hit by a CC or snare effect, it still hits. With dodge, no such luck.

idk · December 2017

kessik221 wrote: »

@idk except that shields can be countered with oblivion damage, like my post stated. Evasion cannot be countered like harness magicka or the heavy armor passive. On top of that compounding the problem, is roll dodge, giving you a much higher rate of sucessfully blocking all damage and added effects. Even if you are wearing a shield, if you are hit by a CC or snare effect, it still hits. With dodge, no such luck.

Considering Evasion provides merely a 15% chance it has the counter built in.

It is part of the stamina equivalent of the magicka shields. It is not a problems for many experienced PvP players in ESO due to it's low proc chance.

15% chance means you have an 85% chance to do damage or CC. No especial gear or specific enchant needs to be worn to accomplish that unlick with shields.

I do not see what the problem is other than what I have already stated very clearly. Since many experienced players have figured out how to deal with it there is clearly not an issue.

paallterrain148 wrote: »

Remove snare, increase duration of immunity and add 2600 armor value.

There are already solid counters to snares. Use them if you do not want to deal with snares. It is great.

Kanar · December 2017

This thread...."medium armor is op." Coming from a bunch of sorcs.

Do you even read what you write?

idk · December 2017

Kanar wrote: »

This thread...."medium armor is op." Coming from a bunch of sorcs.

Do you even read what you write?

I had figured the same thing.

Solariken · December 2017

Replace passive dodge chance with passive parry chance.

Instead of a chance completely avoid damage, it would be a chance to reduce incoming direct damage by X%.

lazerlaz · December 2017

They can remove it the day they take away undodgeable attacks such as dawn breaker.

Then I would be game for the change.

The rng reflect would be way better, I agree! I would love to not only reflect an attack instead of dodge it but also hurt the attacker? Lol clearly you didn't think this through. Sign me up!

lazerlaz · December 2017

Also, you know what's frustrating to a stam build with shuffle and rolling as their only defense? People who hold block yet continue to cast abilities while seemingly have endless resources and then mist form away when things get hairy.

So exhausting seeing y'all cry babies post nonsense all day.

Tonturri · December 2017

lazerlaz wrote: »

Also, you know what's frustrating to a stam build with shuffle and rolling as their only defense? People who hold block yet continue to cast abilities while seemingly have endless resources and then mist form away when things get hairy.

So exhausting seeing y'all cry babies post nonsense all day.

Oh boy oh boy, have I got some nice news for you! There's this ability called 'Vigor' in the Alliance War skill tree, and something called 'Rally' in the 2h tree.

Stam sorcs got Streak, NBs have fear, wardens have Sub Assault, DK has fossilize, and...tbh I've never played a stamplar, so I have no idea what they do. Anywho, last I checked, all of these things either break or go through block. DoTs are also great as well.

lazerlaz · December 2017

Tonturri wrote: »

lazerlaz wrote: »

Also, you know what's frustrating to a stam build with shuffle and rolling as their only defense? People who hold block yet continue to cast abilities while seemingly have endless resources and then mist form away when things get hairy.

So exhausting seeing y'all cry babies post nonsense all day.

Oh boy oh boy, have I got some nice news for you! There's this ability called 'Vigor' in the Alliance War skill tree, and something called 'Rally' in the 2h tree.

Stam sorcs got Streak, NBs have fear, wardens have Sub Assault, DK has fossilize, and...tbh I've never played a stamplar, so I have no idea what they do. Anywho, last I checked, all of these things either break or go through block. DoTs are also great as well.

I'm not talking about heals for defense numbnuts. Nor am I talking about CCs. Im talking about undodgable dps when ppl complain the game is too hard for them with people rolling or having shuffle. Where is the high burst DPS that can't be blocked? Right, nowhere.

Clearly y'all weren't around when you could roll forever. Compared to those days, dodging is a non-issue for skilled players...

Guess y'all ain't one of them huh?

dsalter · December 2017

lazerlaz wrote: »

They can remove it the day they take away undodgeable attacks such as dawn breaker.

Then I would be game for the change.

The rng reflect would be way better, I agree! I would love to not only reflect an attack instead of dodge it but also hurt the attacker? Lol clearly you didn't think this through. Sign me up!

reflect was a bad choice, more like mirror it

TheYKcid · December 2017

No counter to evasion?

-Beam skills
-Skills that actively ignore it (birds, fossilize, rune cage, etc.)
-All DoTs
-All AoEs

There's a reason medium armor sucks so bad—because its main defensive mechanic is utterly *** on by a large proportion of the damage in this game.

Wouldn't be surprised if the anti-evasion camp in this thread are all mag players (OP is a magsorc, whaddya know).

dsalter · December 2017

TheYKcid wrote: »

No counter to evasion?

-Beam skills
-Skills that actively ignore it (birds, fossilize, rune cage, etc.)
-All DoTs
-All AoEs

There's a reason medium armor sucks so bad—because its main defensive mechanic is utterly *** on by a large proportion of the damage in this game.

Wouldn't be surprised if the anti-evasion camp in this thread are all mag players (OP is a magsorc, whaddya know).

you can take dots out of that list due to most dots requiring skills to land in the first place.

the point isnt that evasion is good or bad, its the fact its able to passivly do the work for you by fire and forgetting.
hell bump it up to 100% and only a 3 second evasion time and i'd be all for it.
its the MOBA theme of 15_ seconds of passivly doing the dodging for you in a fast paced game like ESO it just doesnt belong.
wanna keep the long term dodge chance? fine gimmie my landmines that can be placed everywhere, skills that infinitly get stronger the more i spam them, etc.
see how broken they'd be in this environment?
evasion is currently a cheesy function, the hist set that adds evasion to blocking because it requires ACTIVELY BLOCKING.

and FYI i run a stam sorc in pvp. nice try aiming for bias tho.

idk · December 2017

Solariken wrote: »

Replace passive dodge chance with passive parry chance.

Instead of a chance completely avoid damage, it would be a chance to reduce incoming direct damage by X%.

@Solariken

And change magicka based shields to a parry chance as well.

I like how these mostly magicka players ignore this. Nerf stam but lets not touch our shields. It is convenient to ignore that.

I also like how most in here ignore that there are skills that ignore the dodge and that it is a mere 15% chance to dodge.

and again, considering a great many players do not have issues going against players using evasion it is clearly not an issue for the player that takes the time to hone his skill and build.

Evasion is not going away. Oh, and I mostly play magicka builds in PvP.

SodanTok · December 2017

Evasion should be scraped, but not because it is strong (or OP), but because it is bad and unreliable. Medium armor both in PVE and PVP struggles very hard against undodgeable damage, evasion does not help with it at all, making it very weak defensive mechanism.