Please nerf redguard racial passives or buff other races the same amount.

karrie7

Redguard are stupidly strong compared to Bosmers or Nords that have some irrelevant weak passives.Replace falling damage Bosmer's passive to a Bow percentage damage bonus so we can have a viable main hand Bow build.Seriously *** Redguards its flat out unfair and racist

Sixty5

Wat

Mureel

Tasear

I don't that passive is hardly worth mentioning these days. Also nords make better tanks. Lastly bosmer should have pet bonsus as attended from beta

getemshauna

Lmao. In terms of PvP redguard isn't even half as good as bosmer.

ToRelax

Actually Redguard stam sustain is still very good if you proc the passive on cd...

Qbiken

This thread has to be ironic or I´m so done.....

Turelus

karrie7 wrote: »

Redguard are stupidly strong compared to Bosmers or Nords that have some irrelevant weak passives.Replace falling damage Bosmer's passive to a Bow percentage damage bonus so we can have a viable main hand Bow build.Seriously *** Redguards its flat out unfair and racist

You want to change the "fluff bonus" to a combat bonus.

Your entire argument feel apart at that point. Maybe go and learn about each of the passives and what each bonus is and where it falls before you start making demands on the forums.

SodanTok

He is not wrong tho. You pick redguard and you have the best race for both damage and sustain in PVE and arguably even in PVP. You pick bosmer and you have one of the worst stamina races in PVE, best stamblade race in PVP and ok-ish race for other PVP stuff.

His point is failing at suggestion, but not at the idea and complaint (that redguard is too good and other races should get treatment to improve them).

Turelus

SodanTok wrote: »

He is not wrong tho. You pick redguard and you have the best race for both damage and sustain in PVE and arguably even in PVP. You pick bosmer and you have one of the worst stamina races in PVE, best stamblade race in PVP and ok-ish race for other PVP stuff.

However none of that matters unless you're trying for leaderboards or world firsts, in which case you'll be making a lot more concessions to the way you play than just your race.

People get way too hung up on the passives, a good player will be good regardless of their passives. They also build around the passives they have.

The only way to ever make passives fair and balanced is to remove them, personally I would find that rather boring.

SodanTok

Turelus wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

He is not wrong tho. You pick redguard and you have the best race for both damage and sustain in PVE and arguably even in PVP. You pick bosmer and you have one of the worst stamina races in PVE, best stamblade race in PVP and ok-ish race for other PVP stuff.

However none of that matters unless you're trying for leaderboards or world firsts, in which case you'll be making a lot more concessions to the way you play than just your race.

People get way too hung up on the passives, a good player will be good regardless of their passives. They also build around the passives they have.

The only way to ever make passives fair and balanced is to remove them, personally I would find that rather boring.

I would argue losing 1-2k DPS matters at any point of the game (my average loss between khajiit and bosmer on bow/bow setup). But thats not the point. One thing is when race has passives better oriented to reach better DPS and second when race has simply everything worse.

Like khajiit vs redguard. Before one was clear winner at damage, but redguard was still very viable choice for the sustain (and only small damage loss). Now redguard is better at both things. Bosmer vs redguard is not even discussion. If you hit your opponent with melee attack at least once in 10sec you are literally better than bosmer in every content in this game (thats why stamblade are the only good bosmer class)

Redguards are literally better race than bosmer in PVE even if you dont have any melee attacks

Bosmer do not have some crazy regen people assume. The difference between bosmer and redguard regen (so no adrenaline rush) is literally just 12%. That is barely better than vampire passive. It is 150 more regen in PVP at best (with dubious and 3 regen pieces, usually the maximum people go for)


And yes, removing passives would be the only way to make them absolutely balance and it would also be boring, but there is no excuses why they cant at least look like viable choice. If you can practically remove one whole passive from redguard (the 9% regen) and they would still be the best race, there is no denying that there could be done more to push them on the same level. If bosmer had 21% more regen than redguard (instead of 12) it would at least feel like good choice (tho math would still support redguard in sustain)

Or make racials multiplicative, so if you go for high regen race it means you will have high regen, not slightly more than other low regen races because 12% more regen is almost nothing in a world where most people are running with 70-90% regen buffs (in PVP, but it is still very high in PVE - stamblades usually have like 60%), but 4% more to max stamina suddenly means something else when average player has just 6% more to max stamina (on 5/1/1)

TheNorthernDragon

karrie7 wrote: »

Redguard are stupidly strong compared to Bosmers or Nords that have some irrelevant weak passives.Replace falling damage Bosmer's passive to a Bow percentage damage bonus so we can have a viable main hand Bow build.Seriously *** Redguards its flat out unfair and racist

"Racist?" Lol How about a MAGA hat for your Bosmer, instead?

karrie7

Turelus wrote: »

karrie7 wrote: »

Redguard are stupidly strong compared to Bosmers or Nords that have some irrelevant weak passives.Replace falling damage Bosmer's passive to a Bow percentage damage bonus so we can have a viable main hand Bow build.Seriously *** Redguards its flat out unfair and racist

You want to change the "fluff bonus" to a combat bonus.

Your entire argument feel apart at that point. Maybe go and learn about each of the passives and what each bonus is and where it falls before you start making demands on the forums.

Redguards got no fluff bonus u moron stfu

Danksta

karrie7 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

karrie7 wrote: »

Redguard are stupidly strong compared to Bosmers or Nords that have some irrelevant weak passives.Replace falling damage Bosmer's passive to a Bow percentage damage bonus so we can have a viable main hand Bow build.Seriously *** Redguards its flat out unfair and racist

You want to change the "fluff bonus" to a combat bonus.

Your entire argument feel apart at that point. Maybe go and learn about each of the passives and what each bonus is and where it falls before you start making demands on the forums.

Redguards got no fluff bonus u moron stfu

I'd call an extra 15 minutes on your food a fluff bonus.

Xsorus

Bosmer have immunity to disease and poison status effects

VaranisArano

Is this the moment when I point out that I have a Breton stamina sorcerer who does just fine with the level of content I run her in? It is.

Its also the moment when I remind you that racial passives matter somewhat in PVP and only matter at the top-tier level in PVE. For the vast majority of players, racial passives won't make a big difference. Matching racial passives to your class will make your life a little easier, but short of top tier stuff, it's not going to be the difference between viable and unviable.

(Also, taking less falling damage is pretty sweet when your PVP raid lead takes your raid charging over a cliff...)

Joy_Division

Turelus wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

He is not wrong tho. You pick redguard and you have the best race for both damage and sustain in PVE and arguably even in PVP. You pick bosmer and you have one of the worst stamina races in PVE, best stamblade race in PVP and ok-ish race for other PVP stuff.

However none of that matters unless you're trying for leaderboards or world firsts, in which case you'll be making a lot more concessions to the way you play than just your race.

People get way too hung up on the passives, a good player will be good regardless of their passives. They also build around the passives they have.

The only way to ever make passives fair and balanced is to remove them, personally I would find that rather boring.

I disagree.

You are right in that most of us are not trying for leaderboards or squeeze every drop of performance possible from our characters.

That being said, we are playing a game here and one of the fundamental principals of playing a game is that the opponents both stand a reasonable chance at honest competition and winning.

I can live with some imbalances. I can live with asymmetry. I can even live with being something of an underdog, obviously within reason.

What I can't accept is feeling that my racial choice let me down or is a handicap such that the rules and mechanics are stacked against me.

I have no desire to see Redgaurds, Argonians, Alter, or Dunmer - what are the consensus stronger races - get nerfed. 8 divines knows far too much nerfing to the game's mechanics to buff the bland champion System has happened already.

But don't tell me I get hung up when the race that I chose to play is so terrible that my choices are quit playing or pay to have a race change to have a shot at fair competition. I chose being a Nord for a reason - I care about the characters I play. I have memories of them, when I quested I did so "in character," and I have spent 3+ years with this Nord; I shouldn't have to discard all those memories and chase the meta because the game's mechanics have changed such that my signature passive is now worthless in the environment I care most about, PvP.

I understand my Nord is ill-suited to play a magplar, but I tried to make it work. It frustrates me to load up the combat metrics of a fight I lost and see that even though I'm the wrong race, I still put out more damage than my opponent, overcoming those disadvantages, and still lost. Lost because my passive is useless. Lost because my opponents' potion passives, resource recovery passives, defile immunity, and other such advantages are not diluted to nothingness because of things like Battlespirit and the Champion System.

That's not even pay to win. It's pay to not lose. And it sucks.

phontom78kiss

...I understand life can’t be equal but in this virtual reality, why can’t it be? Great philosophical discussion.....jokes aside, It sucks I do agree so in my case, i got a race change token.

SydneyGrey

I have two stam sorcs, one is Redguard and one is Bosmer.
I was playing both of them in dungeons over the past week because of the event. My Bosmer had better stamina regen, at least by a little bit, but it was enough to be noticeable to me ... and they both seem to be doing about equal amounts of damage.
Now, I haven't tested them out on any training dummies to see exactly what the difference is. Just mentioning what I noticed doing dungeons with them. Should also mention that their armor was not 100% identical, so that also makes a difference, although both used Spriggan's.
Redguards DO NOT need to be nerfed, in my opinion.

Zbigb4life

karrie7 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

karrie7 wrote: »

Redguard are stupidly strong compared to Bosmers or Nords that have some irrelevant weak passives.Replace falling damage Bosmer's passive to a Bow percentage damage bonus so we can have a viable main hand Bow build.Seriously *** Redguards its flat out unfair and racist

You want to change the "fluff bonus" to a combat bonus.

Your entire argument feel apart at that point. Maybe go and learn about each of the passives and what each bonus is and where it falls before you start making demands on the forums.

Redguards got no fluff bonus u moron stfu

Why calling names??? No one gets better from that...

Turelus

karrie7 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

karrie7 wrote: »

Redguard are stupidly strong compared to Bosmers or Nords that have some irrelevant weak passives.Replace falling damage Bosmer's passive to a Bow percentage damage bonus so we can have a viable main hand Bow build.Seriously *** Redguards its flat out unfair and racist

You want to change the "fluff bonus" to a combat bonus.

Your entire argument feel apart at that point. Maybe go and learn about each of the passives and what each bonus is and where it falls before you start making demands on the forums.

Redguards got no fluff bonus u moron stfu

Wayfarer
(Passive Skill)
Increases experience gain with One-Handed and Shield Skill line by 15%
Increases the duration of eaten food by 15 minutes.

@Joy_Division I do agree with you, but I still personally feel a lot of people get way too hung up on passives. People are never going to be happy because not everyone can approach it with a rational thought process like yourself.
I don't mind future balance passes but I do somewhat expect people who ask for it to at least understand what they're ranting about and consider wider balance than "me".

Mazbt

nvm was thinking about something probably a lot more specific then discussed.

Jawasa

Argonian Is prob the race that stands out the most. That potion passiv is just so strong. Only thing They dont excell at is pve dps.

Zer0oo

For PVE Redguards is at the moment just too good to not choose it, especial after morrowind. (unless you play a full heavy attack build with no sustain issues)

For me it was after some testing on pts the best race for damage and sustain for almost every stam build.

Anrose

This game needs LESS nerfs, not more. This games need LESS class/race homogenization, not more.

That being said, there are good options for all stamina aligned races. Let’s take a look.

If you want the most damage, pick an Orc. Your damage will be better than Redguard, but your sustain will suffer.

If you want the best sustain, go with Bosmer. Your damage will be slightly lacking in conparison, but your sustain will be great.

Best of both worlds? Redguard is where it’s at. But your damage will not be as good as an Orc, and your sustain will not be as good as a Bosmer.


Both stamina and magicka these variants, and that leaves the game relatively balanced. You need to decide what it is that you want and make a concession somewhere else.

And if you want to play a Khajiit Magblade, then go for it. They’re still able to clear in most content.

EDIT: Wording.

ToRelax

Anrose wrote: »

This game needs LESS nerfs, not more. This games need LESS class/race homogenization, not more.

That being said, there are good options for all stamina aligned races. Let’s take a look.

If you want the most damage, pick an Orc. Your damage will be better than Redguard, but your sustain will suffer.

If you want the best sustain, go with Bosmer. Your damage will be slightly lacking in conparison, but your sustain will be great.

Best of both worlds? Redguard is where it’s at. But your damage will not be as good as an Orc, and your sustain will not be as good as a Bosmer.


Both stamina and magicka these variants, and that leaves the game relatively balanced. You need to decide what it is that you want and make a concession somewhere else.

And if you want to play a Khajiit Magblade, then go for it. They’re still able to clear in most content.

EDIT: Wording.

Wrong. Redguard has the best stam sustain, followed by Argonian or Bosmer depending on your base regen.

Anrose

ToRelax wrote: »

Anrose wrote: »

This game needs LESS nerfs, not more. This games need LESS class/race homogenization, not more.

That being said, there are good options for all stamina aligned races. Let’s take a look.

If you want the most damage, pick an Orc. Your damage will be better than Redguard, but your sustain will suffer.

If you want the best sustain, go with Bosmer. Your damage will be slightly lacking in conparison, but your sustain will be great.

Best of both worlds? Redguard is where it’s at. But your damage will not be as good as an Orc, and your sustain will not be as good as a Bosmer.


Both stamina and magicka these variants, and that leaves the game relatively balanced. You need to decide what it is that you want and make a concession somewhere else.

And if you want to play a Khajiit Magblade, then go for it. They’re still able to clear in most content.

EDIT: Wording.

Wrong. Redguard has the best stam sustain, followed by Argonian or Bosmer depending on your base regen.

Bosmer passives give 21% stamina regen.
Redguard passives give 9% stamina regen AND 792 stamina once every 5 seconds, but only on a melee attack. Which is ~316 regen.

I’m not great at the maths, but Bosmer has a great chance to outpace a Redguard in the regen, but there are so many other variables that, in some circumstances, a Redguard could be better. Which the basis of my statement. Bosmer is viable. Redguard is viable. Others are viable. But it depends what you’re doing with them.

If you try to make a rolly-polly Orc Stamblade, you’re gonna have a bad time. If you’re making a stay-at-home Stamplar or DK on a Bosmer, you’re gonna have a bad time.

Ladislao

Anrose wrote: »

And if you want to play a Khajiit Magblade, then go for it. They’re still able to clear in most content.

This is the main thing.

People do not realize that the ideal balance will never be if they are engaged in minmax. If redguards are nerfed, minmaxer will be "forced" to change race to, say, khajiit. And they will write that "please nerf khajiit racial passives or buff other races the same amount". And blame ZOS that they do everything wrong.

Some kind of perpetual motion.

SodanTok

Anrose wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Anrose wrote: »

This game needs LESS nerfs, not more. This games need LESS class/race homogenization, not more.

That being said, there are good options for all stamina aligned races. Let’s take a look.

If you want the most damage, pick an Orc. Your damage will be better than Redguard, but your sustain will suffer.

If you want the best sustain, go with Bosmer. Your damage will be slightly lacking in conparison, but your sustain will be great.

Best of both worlds? Redguard is where it’s at. But your damage will not be as good as an Orc, and your sustain will not be as good as a Bosmer.


Both stamina and magicka these variants, and that leaves the game relatively balanced. You need to decide what it is that you want and make a concession somewhere else.

And if you want to play a Khajiit Magblade, then go for it. They’re still able to clear in most content.

EDIT: Wording.

Wrong. Redguard has the best stam sustain, followed by Argonian or Bosmer depending on your base regen.

Bosmer passives give 21% stamina regen.
Redguard passives give 9% stamina regen AND 792 stamina once every 5 seconds, but only on a melee attack. Which is ~316 regen.

I’m not great at the maths, but Bosmer has a great chance to outpace a Redguard in the regen, but there are so many other variables that, in some circumstances, a Redguard could be better. Which the basis of my statement. Bosmer is viable. Redguard is viable. Others are viable. But it depends what you’re doing with them.

If you try to make a rolly-polly Orc Stamblade, you’re gonna have a bad time. If you’re making a stay-at-home Stamplar or DK on a Bosmer, you’re gonna have a bad time.

Thats the problem. If you arent great in math some thing look better than others. Bosmer have terrible chance to outpace redguard in regen unless your build is literally not doing any melee damage or is nightblade in pvp that spends most time out of combat. 21% - 9% is 12%. To achieve 319 regen out of this 12% (to match redguard in sustained fight) you would need 2658 unbuffed regen. That is 514 of base regen, 319 of dubious drink and 14 regen bonuses (129) from your gear . Yes your gear would literally have to be all regen to match this.

The thing is there are some advantages of having regen than stamina return on melee attack. But the difference would have to be much smaller to care about this. On pretty high regen build in PVP (base + dubious + 3x gear bonus) you could hit someone with melee attack as redguard just once every 10sec to match this.

Banana

Maura_Neysa

Personally more than which is the best stam race, I’d like to see the passive change to include advantages across resources. For example,

Altmer tank which I main, sounds terrible? Well actually that max magicka, magicka regen means I have way more resource for my spamable. I have to work harder to get my health and stamina up though. Plus I’m a Warden tank, so boosting the damage to Frost is nice. especially in PvP where my whole role is constant pressure, constant CC, speed to stay on top of you and health/stam/resistance to keep you from turning the tied without getting a few more friends.

But an Altmer stam DK DPS, an Orc Healer? Not sure I can come up with anything viable out of that, something DLC Vet 4-man worthy?