Do you like the level scaling?

Elsonso

Yes.

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

a Simple No for me, that change was probably one of the worst things that happend with the game.

it's just a "now you can kill everything" mentality.

If you compare it with skyrim for example, you weren't able to kill a giant on lvl1 (unless you were good af^^)
here you can kill trolls, giants, deadras on lvl 1, thats kinda unlogic, you have "no skills" and are a bad fighter without then and you beat them by headrolling your keyboard? seems strange to me ^^

The TES games have been trying to scale the character and world for a long time, unsuccessfully. Oblivion also had the "level 1 can rule the world" feature, but they swapped out monsters and loot as the character leveled, which (looking back) was silly. Skyrim was better than Oblivion, but mainly because Skyrim got rid of the "den full of Goblin Warchiefs" syndrome and forced characters to level up. The forced leveling makes it impossible for a Level 1 to rule the world, but that is probably the only reason it is not possible.

I feel that ZOS got it right where BGS has been struggling, and am wondering what BGS will do when they finally get back to TES in a decade, or so. ZOS did not level the world to the character. The demands of an MMO forced them to do it from the other direction and level the character to the world. This also eliminates "den full of Gobin Warchiefs" syndrome, but a side effect is that level becomes less important and decisions about character power become more important. This is what ZOS got right.

As Turelus has said, the system could use some tuning to lift up some overworld monsters and specialty creatures (trolls, giants, etc). The need for that really depends on how many people routinely die to them, and how that compares with the design goals.

Defilted

Yes.

I do and I don't...

I like when a friend starts playing for the first time and I do not have to create a new characters to group and have some questing or whatever.

The world feels the same becasue the level of difficulty never changes.

Great for running normal dailies on my 2 low level characters though.

I do not know.. yes and no.

Axoinus

Yes.

Vhozek wrote: »

I personally don't like being able to kill a troll at level 1.
Would be cool if large HP enemies had a set level.
I find late game to be lackluster because everything I could do with a level 50 I can do with a level 1.

There should be been an option for "Neutral". I do no hate it, but I also don't love it. I' m not sure what the point of level 1-50 is now. Progression Is more about gear attainment, skill points, skill leveling and champion points. They basically took character level out of the equation so that character level means nothing except that you can use rubedite.

Progression is still there, so its fine I guess. For those of us that lived through the change, it was understandable. But for new players that play the traditional MMO model, I could see them getting confused since character level being tied to zones will be their assumption.

OmniDo

No.

Definitely a fan of "Choose your own adventure", but not a fan of "gear means nothing coz participation trophy generation."
I leveled an alt from 1-50 using level 4 crafted set gear.
It was a joke.
It wasnt even a funny joke.
It was boring, swift, and meaningless, just like all the "Rewards" during the process.
Nothing had any value and no decisions mattered.
Its a race to 50, or CP160 for first-timers, so that they can actually "enjoy" the challenges of the game, if any remain by then.

DieAlteHexe

Yes.

Vhozek wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Unfortunately landscape content will never be challenging again because of it. You can't balance a level 10, 0 CP, all green gear character with a CP 690, gold gear, all passives character.

I understand some of the benefits with it, but the world feels like this now:

I guess we live in a new age now where being a winner in video games doesn't require much hard work.
Seems more like people are looking to do anything in a game instead of earning their chance at beating anything.

I agree actually. This is meant to be entertainment for me. I specifically chose a game that didn't require me to have to work at it. I have enough challenges in RL, I don't want or need them in my entertainment. I game to relax, have fun, explore, socialise, be silly...escapism.

There are other games that DO require an effort and that's great, there should be something for all kinds of preferences. I just made sure to chose one that suited mine.

ADarklore

Yes.

I like being able to go hunt for skyshards in ANY zone with a new character... I remember pre-One Tamriel and being stressed out in higher level zones because of having to try and sneak past enemies in order to reach the skyshard... and if I wasn't lucky, I'd end up dead or spending 10 minutes fighting a single regular enemy... not to mention how mudcrabs in one zone are suddenly terrifying killers in another, which didn't make any logical sense at all.

Vhozek

I just really believe it makes the most sense for a large HP enemy like a troll, giant, bull netch, and so on to be one of those enemies you need to group with at least 1 more person or wait a few levels to defeat. I'm talking about at least level 10-15 to be able to solo it.
Everything feels the same at all levels and it's one of the reasons 80% of my gameplay consists of running dungeons over and over again.
You have no idea how excited I feel when I see someone else fighting a large HP enemy because it's my time to finally tank for somebody outside of dungeons.

tplink3r1

I do when it comes to doing low level content with a high level character, but not the opposite.

Knootewoot

Yes.

Yes.........

BUT the overland should be a bit harder. In fact I think level scaling works perfectly, but the amount of CP's ruin it a bit. They make the game for alt's overall to easy.

I started a noob alt and he had some difficulties with mobs until I put all CP's in the tree's.

So one solution could be for alts.... don't have access to CP-tree until hit lvl 50. But also for lvl 50's the overland should be harder. Quests have totally no challenge. I remember Doshia and people crying at the trapdoor they needed a group but could not enter with others in same instance.

Those were the days (or was she really not that difficult and all people were just noobs using wrong skills the first days)

iiYuki

No.

no it ruins all sense of power progression. you can kill a gigantic dwarven contraptions, demons from oblivion and monsters but a random mobs still provide the chance of killing you.

DieAlteHexe

Yes.

Knootewoot wrote: »

Yes.........

BUT the overland should be a bit harder. In fact I think level scaling works perfectly, but the amount of CP's ruin it a bit. They make the game for alt's overall to easy.

I started a noob alt and he had some difficulties with mobs until I put all CP's in the tree's.

So one solution could be for alts.... don't have access to CP-tree until hit lvl 50. But also for lvl 50's the overland should be harder. Quests have totally no challenge. I remember Doshia and people crying at the trapdoor they needed a group but could not enter with others in same instance.

Those were the days (or was she really not that difficult and all people were just noobs using wrong skills the first days)

When I returned and found out that CP earned by one character can be used on each character I was honestly surprised. Not complaining, mind you but it surprised me. I would've expected something along the lines of what you said (starting at 50).

idk

Yes.

Vhozek wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

I love the concept of level scaling and what 1T did for the game. Especially combined with set collecting across the zones and such--I think it was a very smart move.

That being said, I dislike the current difficulty level. Whether or not any CP is allocated, I wish I had more incentive to pay attention to combat outside of a few key boss fights.

idk wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP's opening statement does not make sense. If there was a troll in a starting area it would be expected one could kill it at lvl 1.

The biggest change is a zone like Bankorai is not inaccessible to that level one and when a player is lvl 40 going back to Glenumbra is not a complete, and worthless, joke.

Then a river trolls just outside of the towns in Morrowind shouldn't have big HP bars. It even tells you those are difficult enemies.

Your point?

My point is the one I already made which is that an enemy with large HP bars are not difficult.

For an experienced player with a good amount of CP they weren't difficulty before the leveling unless you skipped ahead to higher level zones which is not what your bringing up.

In discussions like this players so often ignore that not everyone has been playing this game for years and has access to set bonus gear and enough CP to in resss their damage significantly. Makes for a biased conversation.

DocFrost72

Yes.

idk wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

I love the concept of level scaling and what 1T did for the game. Especially combined with set collecting across the zones and such--I think it was a very smart move.

That being said, I dislike the current difficulty level. Whether or not any CP is allocated, I wish I had more incentive to pay attention to combat outside of a few key boss fights.

idk wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP's opening statement does not make sense. If there was a troll in a starting area it would be expected one could kill it at lvl 1.

The biggest change is a zone like Bankorai is not inaccessible to that level one and when a player is lvl 40 going back to Glenumbra is not a complete, and worthless, joke.

Then a river trolls just outside of the towns in Morrowind shouldn't have big HP bars. It even tells you those are difficult enemies.

Your point?

My point is the one I already made which is that an enemy with large HP bars are not difficult.

For an experienced player with a good amount of CP they weren't difficulty before the leveling unless you skipped ahead to higher level zones which is not what your bringing up.

In discussions like this players so often ignore that not everyone has been playing this game for years and has access to set bonus gear and enough CP to in resss their damage significantly. Makes for a biased conversation.

^

If one thinks the game is easy, I welcome them to try a brand new toon with no cp and drop gear only. Most encounters remain fine, but there are quite a few that offer a real challenge.

Blackbird_V

No.

Simple no for me. Everything dies way too easily.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Giff pre-1T monsters back ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Bax

Yes.

Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »

Simple no for me. Everything dies way too easily.

Everything died even easier in pre-1T, all you had to do was being few levels above your zone which was easy enough just by casual progressing through questing. Problem of everything dying too easily is the problem involving tuning of power level of mobs. You might actually have way more challenging content through scaling (see first sentence). Few adjustments would have to be done for that tho.

Shawn_PT

Yes.

I'd like to say that no, it's a bad thing. But honestly I don't think it's that bad. When I started playing ESO Wrothgar was rather new and I remember trying to avoid it because my characters were not strong enough to wander casually out there. I hated spending 2 minutes fighting a small group of Durzogs on my tank just to give two steps and run into a giant. Also not being able to go to certain places because our level 10 character would get destroyed by any lvl45 mob would severely limit players now that so many dailies require you to go to random provinces for a delve or a few dolmens.

At least we can go anywhere without actively avoiding every possible fight. I am aware this is a L2P issue but we cannot say that the game is too easy when we see new players backpedaling away from every encounter and dying when they run into 3 mobs at the same time. Mostly because ESO does not explain that bow light attacks and crystal frags in sequence are not the most effective way of combat.

Juju_beans

Yes.

I like it because it opens the world to me. And I can go back to a previous zone and it still challenges me.
Plus zones don't feel that empty with all levels of toons running around.

Go play wow which is linear progress through zones and you'll see the huge imbalance of player population disbursement.

idk

Yes.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

I love the concept of level scaling and what 1T did for the game. Especially combined with set collecting across the zones and such--I think it was a very smart move.

That being said, I dislike the current difficulty level. Whether or not any CP is allocated, I wish I had more incentive to pay attention to combat outside of a few key boss fights.

idk wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP's opening statement does not make sense. If there was a troll in a starting area it would be expected one could kill it at lvl 1.

The biggest change is a zone like Bankorai is not inaccessible to that level one and when a player is lvl 40 going back to Glenumbra is not a complete, and worthless, joke.

Then a river trolls just outside of the towns in Morrowind shouldn't have big HP bars. It even tells you those are difficult enemies.

Your point?

My point is the one I already made which is that an enemy with large HP bars are not difficult.

For an experienced player with a good amount of CP they weren't difficulty before the leveling unless you skipped ahead to higher level zones which is not what your bringing up.

In discussions like this players so often ignore that not everyone has been playing this game for years and has access to set bonus gear and enough CP to in resss their damage significantly. Makes for a biased conversation.

^

If one thinks the game is easy, I welcome them to try a brand new toon with no cp and drop gear only. Most encounters remain fine, but there are quite a few that offer a real challenge.

Yep. Those trolls in public dungeons are not as easy. One thing that still separates the experienced player vs new in this case is experience and it still makes a big difference.

FakeFox

Yes.

I really liked leveling my first character without levelscaling, so I think for a new players experience it could be better to not have scaling. However from my current perspective I like it as it makes grinding of any kind far easier.

Alchemical

Yes.

I think it's funny that WoW's next gimmick is ripping off ESO's level scaling model.

I love it. I like being able to invite friends to try the game out and being able to do stuff with them without having to throttle myself or confine myself to newbie areas. I enjoy feeling like I'm not gimping myself by playing my non-level cap characters sometimes. I like that even if I'm level cap I can go back and do quests I missed, just because I like the story, and not feel like the effort is pointless.

Leveling is the most boring and frankly redundant part of MMORPGs because 'everything starts at level cap'. When your MMO actually starts when you start playing the game it opens up a whole new world of possibilities. And that's what The Elder Scrolls is about, it's about a journey, not the end, and they've translated that philosophy well into MMO format.

"abloo bloo bloo some content should be hard tho!"
Overland content is not hard in any MMO on the market, shut up. I leveled through FF14 naked. If you want hard, make it hard. Stop demanding game design cater to your 'special need' to feel tough while crying about the most basic level of content being accessible to most players, jesus christ what is wrong with some of you.

Miraslova

Yes.

There was already thread on this, walk it off, don't spam.

krachall

No.

Hate it.

It removes the biggest aspirations in MMOs: leveling in order to experience new content.

Scaling has eliminated the critical “I can’t wait to be level XX so I can run that awesome ABC dungeon I’ve heard about!”

With scaling, you grab your level 10 character in level 5 gear, step in and BAM you’re a hero.

Hate it

Even worse is that many of my stats are actually lower at 50 then they were at 10.

I remember my first weeks in EQ trying to level high enough to make the run from Qeynos to Freeport and, after several attempts, how pumped I was when I saw the Freeport Gates.

That element is almost non-existent in ESO

Danikat

Yes.

I like it.

Mostly because I like the freedom it gives. On my main characters I am still playing everything in order, because I want to follow the story but I like that it's my choice to do that. On my other characters I can focus on whatever content I want to do on them. My level 20 crafter can go to Craglorn to do crafting surveys. My evil psychopath can do just the quests where I want to see what happens if you pick the evil option/s. My sorcerer can do all 3 starting islands before going anywhere else because I seem to be incapable of learning to play one and need more time with the easy content.

I also think it's made me a better player. I'm a completionist - I like to do all the quests in an area before moving on, which means before level scaling I was always above the recommend level for the content I was doing. Sometimes I'd drop down to close to the right level because I wasn't getting any XP, but as soon as I was "just" 5 levels above it I'd get XP and go back up.

Which means the game was always very easy for me. Going into a fight I'd pick which skills I wanted to use mostly based on what animation I wanted to see because I knew it didn't matter what I used and I'd only have time for a couple of hits so if I wanted to see a particular skill I had to open with it. The update actually made the game harder for me because everything is at my level, which not only means fights are more challenging but also if I meet something I can't easily kill I can't just ignore it and come back later when I will out-level it. I have to actually figure out how to beat it, whether that means better tactics, using food/potions, getting some other people to help or whatever. Now I'm using more than 2 skills per fight I also need to worry about managing my stamina/magicka which I never thought about before.

Not having the sense of progression doesn't bother me any more than not getting XP bothered me before. I play content because I want to play it, not because I want to see bigger numbers on my character sheet. I've never really understood the idea of playing a game to level up (or to get better equipment), to me it's the other way around. Levelling up was something I was forced to do in order to be able to play - like having to train before going mountain climbing or motorbike racing or whatever in real life. Now I can just focus on what I want to do, what I'll have fun doing. (And I still get levels, skill points etc. as I'm doing it, so it's a win/win.)

idk

Yes.

krachall wrote: »

Hate it.

It removes the biggest aspirations in MMOs: leveling in order to experience new content.

Scaling has eliminated the critical “I can’t wait to be level XX so I can run that awesome ABC dungeon I’ve heard about!”

With scaling, you grab your level 10 character in level 5 gear, step in and BAM you’re a hero.

Hate it

Even worse is that many of my stats are actually lower at 50 then they were at 10.

I remember my first weeks in EQ trying to level high enough to make the run from Qeynos to Freeport and, after several attempts, how pumped I was when I saw the Freeport Gates.

That element is almost non-existent in ESO

Again, it really doesn't work that way. Love how max CP players make comments like this thinking they speak to the experience of all yet they completely ignore the future of any MMO, the new player and can care less about their experience since they think it doesn't affect them.

krachall

No.

idk wrote: »

krachall wrote: »

Hate it.

It removes the biggest aspirations in MMOs: leveling in order to experience new content.

Scaling has eliminated the critical “I can’t wait to be level XX so I can run that awesome ABC dungeon I’ve heard about!”

With scaling, you grab your level 10 character in level 5 gear, step in and BAM you’re a hero.

Hate it

Even worse is that many of my stats are actually lower at 50 then they were at 10.

I remember my first weeks in EQ trying to level high enough to make the run from Qeynos to Freeport and, after several attempts, how pumped I was when I saw the Freeport Gates.

That element is almost non-existent in ESO

Again, it really doesn't work that way. Love how max CP players make comments like this thinking they speak to the experience of all yet they completely ignore the future of any MMO, the new player and can care less about their experience since they think it doesn't affect them.

I re-read the subject line and, yup, it says do “you” like the scaling? Since I’m providing MY opinion, why on earth would I try to inject your (or another players) opinion? Lol

Post of the day.

What’s your favorite color? Blue? Bah. You need to consider that my favorite color is green! Lololol

idk

Yes.

krachall wrote: »

idk wrote: »

krachall wrote: »

Hate it.

It removes the biggest aspirations in MMOs: leveling in order to experience new content.

Scaling has eliminated the critical “I can’t wait to be level XX so I can run that awesome ABC dungeon I’ve heard about!”

With scaling, you grab your level 10 character in level 5 gear, step in and BAM you’re a hero.

Hate it

Even worse is that many of my stats are actually lower at 50 then they were at 10.

I remember my first weeks in EQ trying to level high enough to make the run from Qeynos to Freeport and, after several attempts, how pumped I was when I saw the Freeport Gates.

That element is almost non-existent in ESO

Again, it really doesn't work that way. Love how max CP players make comments like this thinking they speak to the experience of all yet they completely ignore the future of any MMO, the new player and can care less about their experience since they think it doesn't affect them.

I re-read the subject line and, yup, it says do “you” like the scaling? Since I’m providing MY opinion, why on earth would I try to inject your (or another players) opinion? Lol

Post of the day.

What’s your favorite color? Blue? Bah. You need to consider that my favorite color is green! Lololol

And I merely provided my oppinion on how your oppinion is. It beneficial for the overall game.

Have a good day.

Danikat

Yes.

Juju_beans wrote: »

I like it because it opens the world to me. And I can go back to a previous zone and it still challenges me.
Plus zones don't feel that empty with all levels of toons running around.

Go play wow which is linear progress through zones and you'll see the huge imbalance of player population disbursement.

I think these are both good points.

The most common reaction I heard from max CP players when this was announced was "my characters can finally go home!". Before that there was a weird disconnect where if you wanted your character to 'live' in the EP zones you had to start them off in DC so that at the end of Cadwell's Gold they'd be in EP...but then they had to fight for DC in PvP...

Also as someone who spends 99.99% of her time in (formerly) low level maps I definitely notice far more people around since this change. Before One Tamriel I could easily spend hours going through a zone and maybe meet 1-2 other people, if I was in a public dungeon I could finish the whole thing, taking my time, without a single other person in there. That would never happen now.

And funny enough that's one of (several) things that put me off WoW. Years ago, before they introduced F2P up to level 40 or whatever it is I did a 48 hour free trial. I was an hour in before I finally found another person, and then all they'd say to me was "pls leave" which I later found out was because they were grinding mobs and if I killed one or it attacked me first I'd "steal" their XP. When I got to the first town there was one other person there who told me not to "spam chat" by saying hi (once) because I shouldn't talk unless I had something to sell and I was obviously too new to have anything worth selling. (Not that there was anyone there to sell to. Except me and I was too new to worry about buying things from other players.)

Across the whole 48 hours it was the loneliest I've ever been in an MMO. I tried 3 or 4 different races and all the starting zones were the same. If I didn't know better I'd think the game was dead or well on it's way. Even in a long-running game without level scaling I'd expect to see existing players levelling alts, the odd new or returning player...someone in the starting zones for some reason.

ESO never got quite that bad (especially since the first city in each Alliance remained popular trading/crafting/afk spots) but One Tamriel has definitely helped make the game as a whole seem more populated.

srfrogg23

Yes.

I like not being tied to a small handful of zones that are intended for max level characters. It’s really nice to be able to find relevant content everywhere in the game, especially when I have completed a zone or just need that change in scenery.

Tandor

Yes.

Vhozek wrote: »

I find late game to be lackluster because everything I could do with a level 50 I can do with a level 1.

I must have missed the video of your level 1 character completing veteran trials etc, can you repost it please?

idk

Yes.

Tandor wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I find late game to be lackluster because everything I could do with a level 50 I can do with a level 1.

I must have missed the video of your level 1 character completing veteran trials etc, can you repost it please?

Considering if one does the tutorial or skips it they come out lvl 3 at the minimum ,iirc, it's not possible. I think they're using level 1 in an attempt to make a point.