Two-hander instead of DW

tinythinker

I know end game meta is Bow+DW for stam builds, but how big of a loss is swapping to a two-hander? It sometimes feels more fun to me, using Carve on a group until one is weak then getting splash from Reverse Slice and of course heavy attacks.

Liofa

Just Deadly Cloak is enough to be better than Two-Hander . It isn't about DPS . Screw DPS . Dat AOE damage reduction ...

Kanar

2h is great and a lot of fun. I use it for all vet dungeons, vMA, normal trials. Don't have a lot of experience with vet trials; the ones I've done, I used dw but if I had more experience in them I'd probably be comfortable using 2h but blade cloak is nice in them so you don't die from aoes.

It's best on packs of enemies where brawler makes you very tough and reverse slice just cuts through them. Also on high hp bosses where the execute phase is longer because that's where 2h starts to pull ahead with reverse slice and the asylum weapon lets you drop ult after ult. This is helpful because tough boss fights get most difficult during last 20% hp and 2h does huge damage at that point.

I play stamDK which has great synergy with the asylum 2 hander, but templar and sorc would also benefit from having an execute.

TheUndeadAmulet

Liofa wrote: »

Just Deadly Cloak is enough to be better than Two-Hander . It isn't about DPS . Screw DPS . Dat AOE damage reduction ...

What he said. 25% AoE damage reduction is the only thing that makes stam DPS in trials and vet dungeons.

Illurian

Another thing about swapping from Dual Wield to Two Hander is the loss of a set piece.

You'd have to give up either a 5 piece or a Monster set.

Izaki

Liofa wrote: »

Just Deadly Cloak is enough to be better than Two-Hander . It isn't about DPS . Screw DPS . Dat AOE damage reduction ...

^ This right here.

Strider__Roshin

DW has better Survivability, better ST damage, and you get an extra set piece. You're shooting yourself in the foot by using a 2H over DW.

tinythinker

Daus wrote: »

DW has better Survivability, better ST damage, and you get an extra set piece. You're shooting yourself in the foot by using a 2H over DW.

Then it sounds like a design issue if it's that much worse than DW.

What could 2H get to make-up for the gap?

Minno

tinythinker wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DW has better Survivability, better ST damage, and you get an extra set piece. You're shooting yourself in the foot by using a 2H over DW.

Then it sounds like a design issue if it's that much worse than DW.

What could 2H get to make-up for the gap?

By being a strong weapon in PvP with:
- a spamable melee version of dark flare,
- AC friendly execute,
- resist ignoring ultimate,
- heavy attack empower buff,
- best gap closer in the game that always crits,
- strong burst heal that gives major brutality,
- and gives you major Endurance on kills for having the weapon slotted.

You can still ignore the set piece issue if you can find a set you can backbar the 5th piece, letting you run 2monster, 5,5. At least that's been the meta for PvP for some time now.

tinythinker

Minno wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DW has better Survivability, better ST damage, and you get an extra set piece. You're shooting yourself in the foot by using a 2H over DW.

Then it sounds like a design issue if it's that much worse than DW.

What could 2H get to make-up for the gap?

By being a strong weapon in PvP...

...doesn't help for PvE.

Minno wrote: »

You can still ignore the set piece issue if you can find a set you can backbar the 5th piece, letting you run 2monster, 5,5.

Yeah

SodanTok

Its like with bow. I dont get why ZoS builds the whole endgame difficulty around one skill on one ability of one weapon. If stamina DD is literally required to have blade cloak to play trials, someone did bad job.
5 classes with 3 skill trees, 4 stamina weapon skill trees, plenty of other skill trees including undaunted or fighters guild and in all of this there is just one instance of aoe damage reduction buff.

Its not like people would stop using the best PVE weapon in the game because they could get the buff from those trees that are filled with useless abilities (like FG with 2 good abilities out of 6) and It is not like medium armor in PVP literally needs something akin to this buff to live through all the undodgeable attacks (of which 90% is aoe)

tunepunk

@SodanTok

There are more ways to counter heavy AOE damage than just one skill. Damage shields can do a pretty decent job a well. Vampire mist has a 75% reduction, you can just pop that one second, and pop out of it by blocking when the danger is over. Takes better timing to be effective but there are other ways than only that skill.

SodanTok

tunepunk wrote: »

@SodanTok

There are more ways to counter heavy AOE damage than just one skill. Damage shields can do a pretty decent job a well. Vampire mist has a 75% reduction, you can just pop that one second, and pop out of it by blocking when the danger is over. Takes better timing to be effective but there are other ways than only that skill.

I obviously spoke about stamina And AoE is often something constantly affecting you, more so if you are in melee (hence 2H problem) and less so in range where you can just shield up when something big is coming (hence bow problem). In both cases if reliable and strong shield or AoE reduction was avaiable to 2H or bow builds, they could actually operate in veteran trial content. They have the DPS to do it (maybe not the best, but still good enough for no tryhard veteran run)

Asardes

2H is perfectly viable especially for solo and 4 man content but for trials 2W will always be better, unless running a very specific build relying on fast ultimate buildup using Carve and group buff trough War Machine set. If running the former it could save you weapon power potions if you're on a class that lacks access to major brutality or forgoes that for a morph that gives unique buffs, specifically DK. Also DK Molten Armaments and Sorcerer Bound Armor bonuses to heavy attack synergize pretty well with Forceful and Follow Up 2H passives and Reverse Slice skill to buff AoE damage.

Strider__Roshin

Minno wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DW has better Survivability, better ST damage, and you get an extra set piece. You're shooting yourself in the foot by using a 2H over DW.

Then it sounds like a design issue if it's that much worse than DW.

What could 2H get to make-up for the gap?

By being a strong weapon in PvP with:
- a spamable melee version of dark flare,
- AC friendly execute,
- resist ignoring ultimate,
- heavy attack empower buff,
- best gap closer in the game that always crits,
- strong burst heal that gives major brutality,
- and gives you major Endurance on kills for having the weapon slotted.

You can still ignore the set piece issue if you can find a set you can backbar the 5th piece, letting you run 2monster, 5,5. At least that's been the meta for PvP for some time now.

The gap closer is excellent, but not necessary, the spammable is probably the worst spammable in the game, the execute is very strong, and honestly Rally is the primary reason why this weapon exists in PvP. I really wish Rally was a fighters guild ability that way I wouldn't be handicapped by using it.

ak_pvp

Asylum 2h is good for long fights. Cleave is useful for a dot, one morph gives ultigen. As for defense something like the brawler morph, maybe even forward momentum to give a hot, and get around snare mechanics.

For my sdk, I'm planning to run asylum 2h, vma bow, 3x war machine/ophidian. 5x tfs/nmg depending and veli.

SoLooney

2h is not viable simply cause of lack of survivability. dual wield has deadly cloak which is a must in vet trials, 25 perc damage mitigation is a ton. dual wield provides more dps as you already stated. also, with dual wield, you can wear 2 5 piece sets and a monster set, 2h u cannot do that.

2h is best left in pvp. it is just way too underwhelming compared to dw in pve

Strider__Roshin

SoLooney wrote: »

2h is not viable simply cause of lack of survivability. dual wield has deadly cloak which is a must in vet trials, 25 perc damage mitigation is a ton. dual wield provides more dps as you already stated. also, with dual wield, you can wear 2 5 piece sets and a monster set, 2h u cannot do that.

2h is best left in pvp. it is just way too underwhelming compared to dw in pve

Even in PvP it's primarily a buff bar.

GreenhaloX

Illurian wrote: »

Another thing about swapping from Dual Wield to Two Hander is the loss of a set piece.

You'd have to give up either a 5 piece or a Monster set.

Yeah.. this is the disappointing aspect. My 2H toons; yeah, they have 1 monster helm and 2x 5-pieces set. It's still fine. My other DW and MagSorcs are sporting the 2-pieces monster helm.

Daus wrote: »

DW has better Survivability, better ST damage, and you get an extra set piece. You're shooting yourself in the foot by using a 2H over DW.

Not necessarily.. Sure, the Deadly Cloak is good for a DW, but with a DW stam, you would need to get Vigor; particularly for a DW StamPlar. Healing skill for a StamPlar in itself or that BoL really sucks. For a 2H stam toon, having Vigor is still good, but if you don't, the Rally works just fine. On one my 2H/bow StamDK and StamPlar, which I haven't taken either into PvP to get the Vigor, I am good with both using Rally for the healing. Plus, you get the Major Brutality with Rally; so, it's dual effect with a single skillset. Also, I don't need to slot Executioner with these two stam toons. Instead, with the limited slot spots, I slot Brawler. You get damage shield with the Brawler, and the more adds you swat, the bigger the shield. Also, I like that 9k or so extra bleeding DoT from the Brawler. The Brawler also helps a lot; particularly damage shield in itself, currently, for a stam toon is quite crap, compared to pre-Morrowind.

I slotted Executioner before, but, I find AC with Brawler and AC with Wrecking Blow, or AC with Biting Jabs of the StamPlar, I am taking out any adds/mobs of any hp range quite easily and faster; actually seems faster than with Executioner. Still does good with bosses. Plus, you have other dpsing skillsets on your arsenal. You do get very good survivability with Rally and Brawler for the 2H. I have a DW (a StamBlade with the Rapid Strikes, Deadly Cloak on, Mirage and Relenting Focus, and other goodies); but I find, with a 2H, I'm seemingly taking out targets faster, whether it be the StamDK or the StamPlar. I also hav a DW StamPlar, but yet to get Vigor for it, and did had a DW StamDK. Also with DW stams, you definitely want to have Vigor, aside from the Deadly Cloak for better survivability. With 2H, it's nice to have, but not really a need. The need or should is the Rally and Brawler for a 2H. Even using Coagulating Blood for the 2H StamDK is still good, since you have the Brawler. Hey, to each their own, though.

Kanar

ak_pvp wrote: »

Asylum 2h is good for long fights. Cleave is useful for a dot, one morph gives ultigen. As for defense something like the brawler morph, maybe even forward momentum to give a hot, and get around snare mechanics.

For my sdk, I'm planning to run asylum 2h, vma bow, 3x war machine/ophidian. 5x tfs/nmg depending and veli.

I run 5pc VO and TFS, no monster. VO allows to slot all WD jewelry glyphs with no sustain issues. It gives the best results in vet dungeons in my experience.

Jrk

Daus wrote: »

DW has better Survivability, better ST damage, and you get an extra set piece. You're shooting yourself in the foot by using a 2H over DW.

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Not necessarily.. Sure, the Deadly Cloak is good for a DW, but with a DW stam, you would need to get Vigor; particularly for a DW StamPlar.

I have been messing around with the 2H stamblade....and went back to DW last week. Why you may ask? (and this is relevant at the end to vigor)

- With a 2H equipped, more often in just running dungeons I get booted before we even pull trash. You will be stereotyped as being a scrub, even if you're a golden goose.
- The 2H execute is nifty when done right on trash, but the NB execute is a flat +300% bonus at 25% HP, where the 2H execute doesn't reach 300% until the add is about 1% HP; +60% at 40% HP, 150% at 25% HP. Plus the NB execute gives crit for just being on the bar.
- The bubbles from Carve are nice, but scales to density; awesome on trash, but on the single target boss...no so much., especially one throwing out a $hitload of AoE, which Cloak reduces.
- Weaving. The window to weave (to me) is easier on a 2H, but quicker on DW. Faster weaving, more damage.
- The additional weapon slot makes a world of a difference. Aside from the 2 5-piece & monter setup, you have glyphs & traits. With a 2H you're going either infused or nirnhoned, or maybe even precise if your crit is that lacking. If you don't pick infused, your glyph uptime will diminish to being 40-50% uptime max. If you don't pick Nirnhoned, you're missing out on a lot of damage. With 2 weapons, it's an easy choice with Crit coming from daggers: Nirnhoned on the mainhand, infused on the offhand. Both enchants get reduced cooldowns & with proper weaving, the offhand is proccing often.
- Crit. 10% from holding 2 daggers (whose base damage is the same as maces & swords) is huge. Making that up in your gear means you're sacrificing other stats, IE weapon damage, penetration, stam, crit damage. Combine that with losing a weapon/trait/glyph slot and you're really screwing yourself over.
- Heals & resource management. I have vigor on my bar for running vet dungeons. With DW, it's easier to be able to spam my spammable, heal in o-$hit moments (with pug healers) and not deplete my resources. Not so much with a 2H; trying to spam and heal I find I run out faster. Now when we are on trials, where the group is one big clump, whether you're DW or 2H, vigor is a moot point when you have competent healers. However, with weaving you can find a good return on health & stamina from Leeching Strikes. With an LA in between each Surprise Attack (or a regular rotation) out of 5, you come out to (these are more than likely outdated numbers) 530 Stamina returned & 7500 HP healed in 5 seconds. If NB's had other stamina based heals, that would be most beneficial, but with Killer's Blade & Leeching Strikes golly we'll just have to make do.
__________________________
It would be nice if Path of Darkness had a stamina morph w/ self heals instead of a larger cone with more damage; even take out the expedition mechanic.

Currently:
Refreshing Path - 10 seconds - ~3500 Magicka - Create a corridor of shadows, dealing [X] Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second. While on the path and for up to 2 seconds after leaving it you and your allies are healed for [X] Health every 1 second. You also gain Major Expedition, increasing your movement speed by 30%.

Twisting Path - same - same - Create a corridor of shadows, dealing [X+more] Magic Damage to enemies in the target area [larger cone area] every 1 second. While on the path and for up to 2 seconds after leaving it you gain Major Expedition, increasing your movement speed by 30%.

Proposed:
Remove Twisting Path

Add Hallowed Grave - 10 Seconds - Converts to Stamina ~3200 - Create a corridor of shadows, dealing [X] Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second. While you are on the path and for up to 2 seconds after leaving it you heal for [20/25/30/35]% of the damage done.

Reason for change:
Assassination has 3 out of 6 abilities that convert (an execute, a gap closer & a buff; Relentless Focus).
Siphoning 2 out of 6 (An AoE Direct Damager [which makes no stamina-PVE sense with steel tornado, brawler & weapon damage pots] and a resource refunder associated with LA's.)
Shadow has one ability that converts to Stamina. (the Spammable Surprise Attack single target direct damager)

NB's have 6 magicka based DoT's (Soul Tether, Strife, Cripple, Consuming Darkness, Path of Darkness, Summon Shade) but not a single stamina based DoT; whether single target, AoE or Ground based AoE. Having merely 1 that would scale with weapon damage & stamina would be swell.

If you have to trade one converter from Assassination to balance it, I'd choose keeping Relentless Focus magicka based & have the bow shot still do disease damage & guarantee proccing the disease status effect. The bow shot wouldn't scale to stamina, but that's not (mainly) why you have it on your bar. The bottom line is NB's have no stamina based heals except for Leeching Strikes; if you stop weaving (such as to charge a heavy), you stop healing. You can use magicka based heals, but being stamina based, they will crit less, overall heal for less (with the skill not scaling with gear,) & at a greater cost; very non-synergistic. The Path change gives you heals based still on damage (with density scaling), its return is not dependent on your weaving ability, but it can be combined with Leeching for more survivability. If your counter-argument is that being a NB, your class is subject to heal less in the rock/paper/scissor formula, then explain all the heals available on the magicka side.. In the words of Cochran if it doesn't make sense then Zos must acquit.

Kanar

Yeah I think NB benefits least from 2h because you already have a good execute. The other classes though can make up a lot of damage from having reverse slice.

I've never been kicked from a dungeon while using 2h, might be because I have a lot of cp (not even at cap though) and wear my flawless conqueror title.

I've never had issues surviving with 2h in vet dungeons. In some of the dlc ones I use vigor. But then I don't stand in boss aoe expecting to survive. Also I might be running with more hp than most, usually 18-19k in dlc dungeons.

Drakkdjinn

2h is fine And vet endgame ready but at a dps loss, not a big enough loss to change the outcome of a trial but PvElitists won't give it a fair look solely for that reason. Also, if you think DW wins on survivability alone you either don't know how to capitalize on 2's brawler - the best stam dmg shield in the game - or the Stam element of your raid doesn't know how to manage mechanics and stands in red b/c it thinks parsing their epeens are more important than playing the instance as it lies.

Slightly related note: 2h is way more fun to pilot imo

Kanar

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Slightly related note: 2h is way more fun to pilot imo

Agreed. I play stamDK and the DW rotation is mind-numbingly boring, just applying dots, light/heavy attack. 2h on the other hand has a basic rotation on full health targets but at execute range it becomes a frenzy of reverse slicing; you keep up the important dots but let the weaker dots fall off since they're not worth the gcd. Add that with an asylum weapon so you are spamming ults and it is quite a frenetic battle.

GreenhaloX

My first or main toon is a 2H/bow StamDK, and prior to the Morrowind's changes and nerfing patch, I was practically soloing any PvE contents allowable, from world bosses to vet dungeons. I have since 14 maxed out toons that are mag and stam sorcs, as well as 2H and DW StamPlars and even a DW Stamblade and DK. I'm quite versed on each toon's skillsets and abilities, from the staffs to S&B and DW. Sure, along the way, there were definitely peeps that pushed back on me using my 2H in a trials or vet dungeons, but there are plenty of other times I didn't get any pushback. I, my 2H and/or whoever else had 2H, we cleared those trials and vet dungeons just fine, and even those no-death speedruns. I really don't care much about those or elitists, or whoever has it in for a 2H build. To me, 2H is great and very feasible for any ESO content. I think those peeps just underestimate what a 2H is capable of, or, perhaps, they had a toon/player that wasn't so efficient with a 2H during a run and may have left a bad taste; whatever the reason, it doesn't matter to me. Those bashing 2H and 2H users are just ignorant and buffoons.

I'm not saying 2H is any better than a DW, or vice versa. It's how you use it, and both has its advantages and disadvantages over the other. I use both types quite well, and I even have hybrid tanks, which, one is a 2H/S&B, and the other is a DW/S&B. Both tanks style works quite well as tanking and supplementing dps/dd. I even seen a few peeps rolling around with a 2H/Staff build; now that's interesting. Hey, if it works for them, it's cool. A 2H StamDK or a 2H StamPlar has its DoTs and AoEs and the main brutal damage dealing Wrecking Blows. As a StamDK, You put that into the rotations with the Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Noxious Breath, Brawler, Venomous Claws, Lightweight Beast Trap, Choking Talons and even Executioner.. that is some brutal dps. You also have very good survivability with Vigor, Rally, Hardened Armor and the Brawler. You can even supplement the Brawler with Igneous Shield and add some juices to your protection.

So, I don't know what the hell those that bash 2H are talking about that 2H is less dd/dps, and I don't really care. I know actually what my 2H and DW toons are both capable of, and I run both in any contents; vet, hard-mode, solo, group, whatever. Even StamPlar, StamBlade and StamSorc are awesome with a 2H, or with a DW. However, I do fair a bit better and like it just a bit better with the 2H, because of the Brawler and Wrecking Blow. It is easier for me to AC the Brawler and WB with light attack, versus with Rapid Strikes or Biting Jabs. This is my advantages with the 2H; however, both 2H and DW are equally brutal with ACing heavy attack to those. Again, to each their own. Whatever makes you comfortable and enables you to play well and enjoy the game.

AverageJo3Gam3r

The folks that have run 2H in vet trials, what kind of parses have you gotten?

Locriana

GreenhaloX wrote: »

My first or main toon is a 2H/bow StamDK, and prior to the Morrowind's changes and nerfing patch, I was practically soloing any PvE contents allowable, from world bosses to vet dungeons. I have since 14 maxed out toons that are mag and stam sorcs, as well as 2H and DW StamPlars and even a DW Stamblade and DK. I'm quite versed on each toon's skillsets and abilities, from the staffs to S&B and DW. Sure, along the way, there were definitely peeps that pushed back on me using my 2H in a trials or vet dungeons, but there are plenty of other times I didn't get any pushback. I, my 2H and/or whoever else had 2H, we cleared those trials and vet dungeons just fine, and even those no-death speedruns. I really don't care much about those or elitists, or whoever has it in for a 2H build. To me, 2H is great and very feasible for any ESO content. I think those peeps just underestimate what a 2H is capable of, or, perhaps, they had a toon/player that wasn't so efficient with a 2H during a run and may have left a bad taste; whatever the reason, it doesn't matter to me. Those bashing 2H and 2H users are just ignorant and buffoons.

I'm not saying 2H is any better than a DW, or vice versa. It's how you use it, and both has its advantages and disadvantages over the other. I use both types quite well, and I even have hybrid tanks, which, one is a 2H/S&B, and the other is a DW/S&B. Both tanks style works quite well as tanking and supplementing dps/dd. I even seen a few peeps rolling around with a 2H/Staff build; now that's interesting. Hey, if it works for them, it's cool. A 2H StamDK or a 2H StamPlar has its DoTs and AoEs and the main brutal damage dealing Wrecking Blows. As a StamDK, You put that into the rotations with the Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Noxious Breath, Brawler, Venomous Claws, Lightweight Beast Trap, Choking Talons and even Executioner.. that is some brutal dps. You also have very good survivability with Vigor, Rally, Hardened Armor and the Brawler. You can even supplement the Brawler with Igneous Shield and add some juices to your protection.

So, I don't know what the hell those that bash 2H are talking about that 2H is less dd/dps, and I don't really care. I know actually what my 2H and DW toons are both capable of, and I run both in any contents; vet, hard-mode, solo, group, whatever. Even StamPlar, StamBlade and StamSorc are awesome with a 2H, or with a DW. However, I do fair a bit better and like it just a bit better with the 2H, because of the Brawler and Wrecking Blow. It is easier for me to AC the Brawler and WB with light attack, versus with Rapid Strikes or Biting Jabs. This is my advantages with the 2H; however, both 2H and DW are equally brutal with ACing heavy attack to those. Again, to each their own. Whatever makes you comfortable and enables you to play well and enjoy the game.

@GreenhaloX Very interested in what you say here, as I'm rebuilding my Redguard Templar into a 2h/bow stamplar. My khajit nightblade is using DW/bow, so I don't want to repeat myself!.Plus,...well...Sai Sahan....Lore... My Redgard has aspirations.

Wondering if you could give some skillbar/rotation advice for my stamplar? I've tried various things and can't come up with a rotation that tests well on the skeleton, at least. I have a number of options from pvp on this toon, though I want to use him in pve now, and find the prospect of razor caltrops layered with the bow aoe to be promising. Having Dawnbrealer is good. As for the 2H, I'm wondering if you have or can point me to some skillbar/rotation advice that will work well with TH/bow. I'm thinking taking brawler into the aoe this provided could be pretty good.... Experimenting isn't getting me decent results, dps-wise, so I could use some advice.

Oh, and he has VO (My sorc just got him a gold necklace, nice...) and nightmothers gaze, molag kena shoulders. I have both NM and VO bows I could use, and both in two handed options (though the Redguard NM sword is way cooler looking than that VO TH axe..and a lot more convincing with brawler.) Also just got an asylum 2h, but that will take away from one of the sets. Also have asylum bow, which boosts snipe quite a bit...though I'm finding most ppl don't use arrow spray or snipe...which I always enjoy doing, but there must be a reason ppl don't...probably dps related, so...

Any advice?

GreenhaloX

Locriana wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

My first or main toon is a 2H/bow StamDK, and prior to the Morrowind's changes and nerfing patch, I was practically soloing any PvE contents allowable, from world bosses to vet dungeons. I have since 14 maxed out toons that are mag and stam sorcs, as well as 2H and DW StamPlars and even a DW Stamblade and DK. I'm quite versed on each toon's skillsets and abilities, from the staffs to S&B and DW. Sure, along the way, there were definitely peeps that pushed back on me using my 2H in a trials or vet dungeons, but there are plenty of other times I didn't get any pushback. I, my 2H and/or whoever else had 2H, we cleared those trials and vet dungeons just fine, and even those no-death speedruns. I really don't care much about those or elitists, or whoever has it in for a 2H build. To me, 2H is great and very feasible for any ESO content. I think those peeps just underestimate what a 2H is capable of, or, perhaps, they had a toon/player that wasn't so efficient with a 2H during a run and may have left a bad taste; whatever the reason, it doesn't matter to me. Those bashing 2H and 2H users are just ignorant and buffoons.

I'm not saying 2H is any better than a DW, or vice versa. It's how you use it, and both has its advantages and disadvantages over the other. I use both types quite well, and I even have hybrid tanks, which, one is a 2H/S&B, and the other is a DW/S&B. Both tanks style works quite well as tanking and supplementing dps/dd. I even seen a few peeps rolling around with a 2H/Staff build; now that's interesting. Hey, if it works for them, it's cool. A 2H StamDK or a 2H StamPlar has its DoTs and AoEs and the main brutal damage dealing Wrecking Blows. As a StamDK, You put that into the rotations with the Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Noxious Breath, Brawler, Venomous Claws, Lightweight Beast Trap, Choking Talons and even Executioner.. that is some brutal dps. You also have very good survivability with Vigor, Rally, Hardened Armor and the Brawler. You can even supplement the Brawler with Igneous Shield and add some juices to your protection.

So, I don't know what the hell those that bash 2H are talking about that 2H is less dd/dps, and I don't really care. I know actually what my 2H and DW toons are both capable of, and I run both in any contents; vet, hard-mode, solo, group, whatever. Even StamPlar, StamBlade and StamSorc are awesome with a 2H, or with a DW. However, I do fair a bit better and like it just a bit better with the 2H, because of the Brawler and Wrecking Blow. It is easier for me to AC the Brawler and WB with light attack, versus with Rapid Strikes or Biting Jabs. This is my advantages with the 2H; however, both 2H and DW are equally brutal with ACing heavy attack to those. Again, to each their own. Whatever makes you comfortable and enables you to play well and enjoy the game.

@GreenhaloX Very interested in what you say here, as I'm rebuilding my Redguard Templar into a 2h/bow stamplar. My khajit nightblade is using DW/bow, so I don't want to repeat myself!.Plus,...well...Sai Sahan....Lore... My Redgard has aspirations.

Wondering if you could give some skillbar/rotation advice for my stamplar? I've tried various things and can't come up with a rotation that tests well on the skeleton, at least. I have a number of options from pvp on this toon, though I want to use him in pve now, and find the prospect of razor caltrops layered with the bow aoe to be promising. Having Dawnbrealer is good. As for the 2H, I'm wondering if you have or can point me to some skillbar/rotation advice that will work well with TH/bow. I'm thinking taking brawler into the aoe this provided could be pretty good.... Experimenting isn't getting me decent results, dps-wise, so I could use some advice.

Oh, and he has VO (My sorc just got him a gold necklace, nice...) and nightmothers gaze, molag kena shoulders. I have both NM and VO bows I could use, and both in two handed options (though the Redguard NM sword is way cooler looking than that VO TH axe..and a lot more convincing with brawler.) Also just got an asylum 2h, but that will take away from one of the sets. Also have asylum bow, which boosts snipe quite a bit...though I'm finding most ppl don't use arrow spray or snipe...which I always enjoy doing, but there must be a reason ppl don't...probably dps related, so...

Any advice?

@Locriana, sure. Keeping in mind that this is just for PvE, and a Redguard 2H/bow StamPlar should do well. I don't have any Redguard toon, but it wouldn't be too much of a difference than with my Imperial or Nord StamPlar. I like the Imperial because of the extra health and stamina racial passives as well as similar racial passives for the Nord; plus you get the extra damage reduction with the Nord. Your setup seems pretty good, but, ok, here's my StamPlar rotation, if it would help give you some ideas:

For the 2H front bar:

Biting Jabs / Rally / Brawler / Blazing Spear / Blazing Shield / Ult: Flawless Dawnbreaker

Back Bow bar:

Poison Injection / Restoring Focus / Power of the Light / Endless Hail / Repentance or Ritual of Retribution / Ult: Ice Comet or Toxic Barrage

Of course, the Restoring Focus is for defense and buff resistance and only use when needed. I think Repentance or Ritual of Retribution is a preference. I'm more on the fence side with the Ritual because you can always pop it and its effect will take place; whereas, with Repentance, you're not going to get anything if there are no new deads laying aound, or if someone is your group has it slotted as well. The Flawless Dawnbreaker is almost a must for any stam toon because of its extra 5% weapon damage passive. I hardly ever use the Flawless. It's just there for the extra 5%. I either use the Ice Meteor or Toxic Barrage; which again, is preference. The meteor is more effective for a grouped adds and boss, but the Toxic Barrage is more effective on the boss itself. Also, I'm sure the Caltrops should be good too, in place of the Endless Hail. It's seemingly also preference. I don't have the Catrops, but with Endless Hail that rains down DoTs every 0.5 seconds for 10 sec.. that is a lot of raining damages. Ha ha.

As for the attack mode/rotation:

I usually hit up the Rally for the Major Brutality and/or the Restoring Focus for the Spell/Phys resistance buff first, to get things started (plus you get Minor Vitality and Protection.) As for the actual attack mode, I'll initially lay down the Endless Hail and Blazing Spear to stack DoTs and AoE, then Poison Injection and Power of the Light for additional DoTs and debuff. Then hit them with the Brawler for more DoTs, AoE and direct damage as well as the good damage shield you get from it. Follow up with light attack/Biting Jabs (this is the AC or animation cancelling. I will also AC heavy attack/Biting Jabs in between to restore stamina, as needed) for brutal direct damages. A couple of these ACing, and then restart your rotation with the Rally (and/or Restoring Focus, if needed), Endless Hail/Blazing Spears and so on. Of course, applying the Ritual of Retribution and Ice Comet or Toxic Barrage in between the rotation or as needed. That Blazing shield and Rally saved my ass quite a few times. Also, it is preference.. You can slot in Vigor if you have it. However, for me, Rally is just fine. I would have to get rid of Repentance or the Ritual of Retribution so the Vigor can be slotted. Since I have Rally, I slot the Ritual for extra healing and DoTs. For my DW, the Vigor is a must, though.

Well, 2H build does have a disadvantage from the DW in that you can't have 2 monster pieces and 2 x 5-piece sets. Currently, I have 5x Ravaging and 5x Spriggans and a Molag Kena helm with my 2H StamPlar. I've been too lazy to farm for the VO. However, the Ravaging, for me, is a must for my stam toons. That 5-piece perk from Ravaging combo with Rally, so nice; brutal weapon damage buffs. I can still do trials with Spriggans, but Ravaging and VO would be nicer. Well, Ravaging and Spriggans are just fine for any other PvE land contents. Also, you want the Molag Kena helm, versus the shoulder piece. You get much more stam enchantment with the helm.

Additionally, you don't see Executioner in my rotation. For one, I would have to lose Brawler in order to slot Executioner. Although, Executioner is a must-have for PvP, but, you can get away with not slotting it in PvE. The stacked DoTs from the Endless Hail, Blazing Spears, Poison Injection and Brawler are good enough not to warrant the Executioner. Plus, the bang from the Power of the Light is pretty much the Executioner, per say. Ha ha.

Other than that, try it out and see how your dps would be, and have fun with your Redguard StamPlar. It seems to be formidable.

LittlePinkDot

Im in the process of making a DW/2H Stamblade. Why stick with bow? Go full melee.

Asardes

Why blazing spear on a stamina character? That skill does magic damage and scales off your maximum magicka and spell damage, so the damage will be very low. Also blazing shield scales off your health and doesn't amount to much on a DD character with 16-17K health. Brawler shield is much stronger, especially if you hit multiple enemies.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Im in the process of making a DW/2H Stamblade. Why stick with bow? Go full melee.

Because endless hail is 8-10k dps that you can't replace. Not to mention poison injection.

Asardes wrote: »

Why blazing spear on a stamina character? That skill does magic damage and scales off your maximum magicka and spell damage, so the damage will be very low. Also blazing shield scales off your health and doesn't amount to much on a DD character with 16-17K health. Brawler shield is much stronger, especially if you hit multiple enemies.

Because of this, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4578623/#Comment_4578623


If I was going to set up a 2handed temp the bars would look like this,

Trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless

Repentance, caltrops, power of the light, endless, poison injection, Crescent sweep.

To me, temps are the only class that could benefit from using executioner over reverse slice, because jabs is your AOE.

Crescent is only there for the passive 10% crit hit damage or if you had war machine.