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Mag Dk Skill changes

Nelson_Rebel
Nelson_Rebel
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I have some suggestions for this particular playstyle and the class that would benefit the most underperforming class spec while leaving tanking aspects and BG tanks unbuffed.

Due to the continuing changes after Morrowind that nuked sustainability, and even more uneeded nerfs to the Dk’s Battle Roar and even to their Helping hands, the Dk spec and specifically the Mag Dk has almost zero sustainable options with no passives to help other than the now-near useless battle roar.

~<Here are 3 simple changes that would help the struggling DK non-tanks without buffing the PvE meta/PvP troll tanks


1. •Reduce the Highest magicka costs ingame
of the Magic Skills in all the Dk skill lines by 5-10%. Why does the class with the worst sustainability have the highest costing skills in the first place?

2. •Allow Talons and Fossilize to be unpurgable/uncleansable **HERE IS WHY** Players inside talons can still; Cast skills, block, heal, even CLOAK inside talons and still attack within talons as well.
This skill is the only option Dk’s have to reliably proc Power Lash, which since Dk’s have NO sustainability, this was our only option to help offset our resource drain. Now since Forward Momentum (2H skill) and all purges (like templars) can simply cast this off Dk’s have no sustainable damage skills for our Magic Spec without being pulverized. And fossilize ALREADY breaks on any damage done AND with Clockwork city was ADDITIONALLY nerfed to a measly 8 meters now while sorcs have a 40 meter rune cage that does the same damn thing. lol wut?

3. •Add an actual recovery passive in some fashion to the DK’s passive skill lines. Battle roar is WAY to weak. I don’t care if it’s a weaker form of it. Just something to help us out besides waiting for an ultimate to get back a pitiful amount of resources that get burned in less than 10 seconds because our skills are the highest costing in the game.

~~Please do something to help the DK’s who don’t want to be PvE tanks or PvP troll tank builds. I understand stam dk is doing well, but none of my suggestions buff the Stam by any means. Seriously what’s the point of having an entire flame skill line if the Magick Dk is relatively dead? It’s almost impossible to open world PvP as one. In duels I can still somewhat manage to kill people but not NEARLY as effectively as any other class spec is able to duel. Let alone Battlegrounds, Trials, or Open World PvP.

~~ I know there are threads upon threads of this, and entire page but come on. Help this class out, and the magicka spec.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Edited by Nelson_Rebel on November 22, 2017 11:24PM
  • Nelson_Rebel
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    Please @ZOS_GinaBruno At least try to pass some word along to consider some changes.
  • VaranisArano
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    Part of the problem is that for all you want to buff MagDKs for PVP, ZOS has to balance DKs around the fact that they do make up a large portion of PVE tanks.

    I mean, I main a MagDK tank and I'll be delighted to get better sustainability and better talons. But consider what happens when you give DKs, a class that already as some of the best crowd control, group buffs, and defensive skills in the game, better sustainability again. DKs for tanks forever. Wardens make for decent tanks now, but even then, better sustain would certainly make DKs the better choice, all the time.

    I also PVP on my MagDK, so I'm not opposed to ZOS buffing DKs for PVP. But I do understand that ZOS has to balance MagDKs against the predominance of DKs as PVE tanks.
  • ak_pvp
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    MagDK needs an alternative method of defense from blocking, and better sustain.

    Damage isn't half bad in light, but the loss of the tank playstyle gives no other defense because let's face it. Wings is expensive, takes some projectiles because reasons, goes down in 2s vs 2 ranged opponents light attacks, and the player still receives status effects. Also ping-pong is dead. :(

    Dk is crap against ranged now, chains is useless, stonefist is crap, mobility is low, Foss is 8m, wings is crap. Sad times since Dk used to be ranged worst nightmare. (only good vs mnb and bow builds 1v1)

    Wings needs to be per target 3/4 projectiles. So it's useful 1vx, but can be broken. And reflective plate should be a snare remover/immunity. Useful for stam too.

    Sustain can be via reverting battle roar so builds are more creative than stack tri glyphs like tank.

    I would remove chains and add a stam ability, maybe gap closer and make stonefist a chains copy that works. Stun/root for 1.5s, if broken nothing, if not broken, it pulls and doesn't grant immunity allowing for multi pulls and balancing out pve time increase. Also needs to pull from height differences so cheesers have something to fear and DK has unique utility.

    (obviously has counter of break free)
    Edited by ak_pvp on November 22, 2017 10:18PM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Waffennacht
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    Disagree with the unpurgeable idea
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

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  • ak_pvp
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    Disagree with the unpurgeable idea

    2nd'd. I would say they shouldn't be cloakable In, they should be like a gb dot.
    Part of the problem is that for all you want to buff MagDKs for PVP, ZOS has to balance DKs around the fact that they do make up a large portion of PVE tanks.

    I mean, I main a MagDK tank and I'll be delighted to get better sustainability and better talons. But consider what happens when you give DKs, a class that already as some of the best crowd control, group buffs, and defensive skills in the game, better sustainability again. DKs for tanks forever. Wardens make for decent tanks now, but even then, better sustain would certainly make DKs the better choice, all the time.

    I also PVP on my MagDK, so I'm not opposed to ZOS buffing DKs for PVP. But I do understand that ZOS has to balance MagDKs against the predominance of DKs as PVE tanks.

    They have decent sustain, decent ultigen and decent cc. But other classes compare on each of these marks.

    They don't even have great group buffs. Igneous? 6 people and unpredictable/reliable. Engulfing is a maybe depending on group. 10% blocking isn't that good since good tanks don't die anyway.

    What DK has is chains. They are DKs only clutch and makes them a necessity for most trials and dungeons.

    What can be done to open tanking is make the spider ability in undaunted a synergy pull and fix synergies. One casts Web, other one synergies it to pull.

    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • VaranisArano
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    On my tank, I tend not to use Igneous Shields. Igneous Weapons though? That one I use.

    There was a rather large discussion sometime back about why (or why not) DKs dominate end-game tanking. I'm of the opinion that all classes can tank effectively and that tanking could be made more open to other classes, but I do think that ZOS balances DKs based on their dominance (perceived or real) of end-game tanking. Which does create problems for non-tank MagDK builds. in PVP.
  • Sixty5
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    •Allow Talons and Fossile to be unpurgable/uncleansable

    No... Just no.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • Nelson_Rebel
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    Disagree with the unpurgeable idea

    Why do you disagree with the unpurgable Idea? You can still block, heal, cast, buff, gap close and even cloak inside of talons and you can streak (if a sorc) or simply roll dodge out of it. And it even has a global cooldown on in now.


    Why are we the only class that can’t have an effective means of doing damage? We can’t have any mobility, we can’t have any escape, and now we can’t even lock players down to do our only means of doing effective damage. Becaue even if we get someone pressured we cannot even execute without an ultimate which is just NOT feasible since we have to USE ultimates just to try to keep resources up.

    It’s a complete catch 22
    Edited by Nelson_Rebel on November 22, 2017 11:14PM
  • Nelson_Rebel
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    Sixty5 wrote: »
    •Allow Talons and Fossile to be unpurgable/uncleansable

    No... Just no.


    Give me a reason why then.

    Read this

    Disagree with the unpurgeable idea

    Why do you disagree with the unpurgable Idea? You can still block, heal, cast, buff, gap close and even cloak inside of talons and you can streak (if a sorc) or simply roll dodge out of it. And it even has a global cooldown on in now.


    Why are we the only class that can’t have an effective means of doing damage? We can’t have any mobility, we can have any escape, and now we can’t even lock players down to do our only means of doing effective damage. Becaue even if we get someone pressured we cannot even execute without an ultimate which is just not feasible since we have to USE ultimates just to try to keep resources up

  • Nelson_Rebel
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    Part of the problem is that for all you want to buff MagDKs for PVP, ZOS has to balance DKs around the fact that they do make up a large portion of PVE tanks.

    I mean, I main a MagDK tank and I'll be delighted to get better sustainability and better talons. But consider what happens when you give DKs, a class that already as some of the best crowd control, group buffs, and defensive skills in the game, better sustainability again. DKs for tanks forever. Wardens make for decent tanks now, but even then, better sustain would certainly make DKs the better choice, all the time.

    I also PVP on my MagDK, so I'm not opposed to ZOS buffing DKs for PVP. But I do understand that ZOS has to balance MagDKs against the predominance of DKs as PVE tanks.

    Because nothing I suggested here buffs the Tank playstyle besides having cheaper magic skills. And all that does is lessen the need to spam skills. It does nothing in the way of buffing tanking, sure igneous shields is used but helping hands is still giving pitiful amounts of any decent stam return. Maxed out its like 900 stamina for a 4000 magic cost
    Edited by Nelson_Rebel on November 22, 2017 11:19PM
  • Nelson_Rebel
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    @Wrobel as well


    I don’t know if you read anything here but perhaps you’ll see it in passing
  • Waffennacht
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    So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?

    Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.

    Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)

    Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi

    Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
    Edited by Waffennacht on November 23, 2017 1:27AM
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
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  • Nelson_Rebel
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    So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?

    Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.

    Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)

    Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi


    As I mentioned earlier in some postings, there already exist multiple counterplays to the DK’s roots. You can cast all skills, shields, block, heal, STEALTH inside talons, and any gap closer will also break you out of talons. Having them unremovable NOW makes sense because we have a global cooldown in addition to all these other options of counter play. Not including the incredibly short duration of the skill, the 4000k Magicka high cost to cast it, and the roll dodge option as well.

    I would like to mention specifically Wardens Cliff racer skill as a comparable skill ability with which it has an exception to ingame rules regarding projectiles. As it IS a projectile. However because of the way the skill works, it ignores all forms of dodge. Similarly talons should be unremovable because of the unique circumstances regarding how it works with global cooldowns, short range, high cost and the players casted on are still 100% able to do counterplay.

    Dk’s do not have this luxury and do not have any options with which to use mobility. So we are the stand our ground class. But how can we do that when we can’t actually do anything?

    It’s a complete catch 22 here

    *Edit-

    I would also like to add that due to our classes worst sustainability and not having access to any executions or mobility options, having this fairly gives us a way to have out resources maintained through power lash (this is proced by the 2nd flame lash on an oppenent set off balance hence talons)

    Otherwise our skills are incredibly weak, ineffective and won’t do anything since we also have purged and removalble dots which is a dk’s main damage. Which we cannot maintain because we will be out of resources due to our high skill costs and no reliable resources sustainability xD
    Edited by Nelson_Rebel on November 23, 2017 1:45AM
  • Waffennacht
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    Again you're punishing very specific classes and specs.

    Talons is not a defensive weapon, it is offensive, because I can still cast etc does not reduce the effectiveness of Talons' purpose. That's like saying because you can still cast; EoTs needs to be buffed. Especially in group play, lack of motion is a death sentence - you practically say it yourself. Why would I be against giving Talon's unpurgeable? Because you're extremely pigeonholing builds, especially in group play - for a reason I don't believe you made a good enough point for. I do not agree talons and the DK toolkit is comparable to birds and the fact they are not dodgeable.

    But I digress.

    You are not 100% able to counter play, it's more like 0% because mobility>abilities

    Edit: punctuation

    Edit to your edit lol: again I will agree about sustaining etc, I'll argue here and now for that, and then I'll argue if you address the sustain issues you won't Need unpurgeable talons
    Edited by Waffennacht on November 23, 2017 1:45AM
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
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  • Sixty5
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    Sixty5 wrote: »
    •Allow Talons and Fossile to be unpurgable/uncleansable

    No... Just no.


    Give me a reason why then.

    Read this

    Disagree with the unpurgeable idea

    Why do you disagree with the unpurgable Idea? You can still block, heal, cast, buff, gap close and even cloak inside of talons and you can streak (if a sorc) or simply roll dodge out of it. And it even has a global cooldown on in now.


    Why are we the only class that can’t have an effective means of doing damage? We can’t have any mobility, we can have any escape, and now we can’t even lock players down to do our only means of doing effective damage. Becaue even if we get someone pressured we cannot even execute without an ultimate which is just not feasible since we have to USE ultimates just to try to keep resources up

    Purges and such are not free skills. At best you can get 2 seconds of immunity to talons via dodgeroll, but after that you are fair game for another immobilize.
    Dragonknight is a class built around controlling the area immediately around them, and forcing people into drawn out fights, punishing enemies by forcing them to constantly drain their own resources in order to deal with their damage over time and crowd control.

    You list things that you can do from inside talons, but you need to remember that while you are immobilised you cannot turn your character, which is a huge disadvantage vs anyone with a brain. Talons force you to dodge out, and the immobilise immunity on dodge lasts a lot less time than the debuff from dodging.

    As far as sustain goes, just build it into your gear like literally everyone else has to.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • Waffennacht
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    Sixty5 wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    •Allow Talons and Fossile to be unpurgable/uncleansable

    No... Just no.


    Give me a reason why then.

    Read this

    Disagree with the unpurgeable idea

    Why do you disagree with the unpurgable Idea? You can still block, heal, cast, buff, gap close and even cloak inside of talons and you can streak (if a sorc) or simply roll dodge out of it. And it even has a global cooldown on in now.


    Why are we the only class that can’t have an effective means of doing damage? We can’t have any mobility, we can have any escape, and now we can’t even lock players down to do our only means of doing effective damage. Becaue even if we get someone pressured we cannot even execute without an ultimate which is just not feasible since we have to USE ultimates just to try to keep resources up

    Purges and such are not free skills. At best you can get 2 seconds of immunity to talons via dodgeroll, but after that you are fair game for another immobilize.
    Dragonknight is a class built around controlling the area immediately around them, and forcing people into drawn out fights, punishing enemies by forcing them to constantly drain their own resources in order to deal with their damage over time and crowd control.

    You list things that you can do from inside talons, but you need to remember that while you are immobilised you cannot turn your character, which is a huge disadvantage vs anyone with a brain. Talons force you to dodge out, and the immobilise immunity on dodge lasts a lot less time than the debuff from dodging.

    As far as sustain goes, just build it into your gear like literally everyone else has to.

    You turn your character by charging a heavy attack fyi
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
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  • Nelson_Rebel
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    Sixty5 wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    •Allow Talons and Fossile to be unpurgable/uncleansable

    No... Just no.


    Give me a reason why then.

    Read this

    Disagree with the unpurgeable idea

    Why do you disagree with the unpurgable Idea? You can still block, heal, cast, buff, gap close and even cloak inside of talons and you can streak (if a sorc) or simply roll dodge out of it. And it even has a global cooldown on in now.


    Why are we the only class that can’t have an effective means of doing damage? We can’t have any mobility, we can have any escape, and now we can’t even lock players down to do our only means of doing effective damage. Becaue even if we get someone pressured we cannot even execute without an ultimate which is just not feasible since we have to USE ultimates just to try to keep resources up

    Purges and such are not free skills. At best you can get 2 seconds of immunity to talons via dodgeroll, but after that you are fair game for another immobilize.
    Dragonknight is a class built around controlling the area immediately around them, and forcing people into drawn out fights, punishing enemies by forcing them to constantly drain their own resources in order to deal with their damage over time and crowd control.

    You list things that you can do from inside talons, but you need to remember that while you are immobilised you cannot turn your character, which is a huge disadvantage vs anyone with a brain. Talons force you to dodge out, and the immobilise immunity on dodge lasts a lot less time than the debuff from dodging.

    As far as sustain goes, just build it into your gear like literally everyone else has to.

    You have immunity to roots due to a global cooldown in addition to a roll dodge. This was made in Clockwork city


    Also you turn your character with any form
    of heavy attack or directional skill attack. Including gap closers which will break you free of talons


    There are tons of different ways to leave talons without removing through purges and cleanses.


    And that is not a feasible solution for our DK playstyle. Why do you think Mag Dk’s
    were phased out of trials by stam dk’s? or any other melee range DD? Because not only is their Damage 5 -10k less on parses it’s because even with full builds around sustainability we have the worst sustainability and even worse dps.


    This is not acceptable
  • Nelson_Rebel
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    Again you're punishing very specific classes and specs.

    Talons is not a defensive weapon, it is offensive, because I can still cast etc does not reduce the effectiveness of Talons' purpose. That's like saying because you can still cast; EoTs needs to be buffed. Especially in group play, lack of motion is a death sentence - you practically say it yourself. Why would I be against giving Talon's unpurgeable? Because you're extremely pigeonholing builds, especially in group play - for a reason I don't believe you made a good enough point for. I do not agree talons and the DK toolkit is comparable to birds and the fact they are not dodgeable.

    But I digress.

    You are not 100% able to counter play, it's more like 0% because mobility>abilities

    Edit: punctuation

    Edit to your edit lol: again I will agree about sustaining etc, I'll argue here and now for that, and then I'll argue if you address the sustain issues you won't Need unpurgeable talons

    Talons can be used in multiple ways,
    I.E as our escape to keep players down. However any gap closer also breaks that and ruins that idea. And trying to use it offensively for power lash is completely negated by all of the other means of counterplay I listed in addition to the purges from 2h and cleanses. While you do not Agree with the wardens bird skill I mentioned I still stand by it and will agree to disagree with you on that.


    I disagree here because countetplay is still 100% because while you are in talons, your mobility is not locked down. Again any heavy attack changes your direction, you can use multiple different skills such as shields, heals, stealth, block. And even then, any gap closer will also break you free of talons. The 4 sec duration on takons plus the Global immunity on roots is plent of counterplay in addition to all the other items I’ve mentioned.

    Dk’s are not like other classes that we would hugely benefit from this from a damage perspective, power lash still can only be proced once every 6 seconds due to internal cooldowns for that. The point of this is the proc allowing Dk’s to have an ability to help sustainability since we have none in addition to the highest costing skills in the game


    But I can certainly agree and compromise that if we got this. That letting go of my other suggestions would be a fair trade, or vice versa
    Edited by Nelson_Rebel on November 23, 2017 2:04AM
  • Waffennacht
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    I mean you can't avoid Dawnbreaker, EotS, Jabs, Sub Assault or any other ability that will wreck you because you can't LoS, or Flee because you just got rooted by the DK in the group.

    I've heard MANY players say you cannot balance for 1v1 but rather small scale. And in small-scale this would be abused

    Edit: I gotta word my #$&@ very carefully as to make sure I don't inadvertently advocate for the nerfing of pigeons lmao
    Edited by Waffennacht on November 23, 2017 2:11AM
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
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  • Nelson_Rebel
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    I mean you can't avoid Dawnbreaker, EotS, Jabs, Sub Assault or any other ability that will wreck you because you can't LoS, or Flee because you just got rooted by the DK in the group.

    I've heard MANY players say you cannot balance for 1v1 but rather small scale. And in small-scale this would be abused

    In small scale this still wouldn’t be an issue. The effects of roots is still limited to a very small amount of people, in an incredibly short range.

    The dk’s cannot abuse this ability because any idiot trying to spam this will be out of magic in less than 10 seconds because he will still be charged the magic even if he cannot cast it on people withh immunity to roots at the time or if anyone is out of range the cost for the 5meter ability is still charged. This skill is literally not abusable anymore with global cooldowns in addition to all that.

    I’m not doing this to balance for 1v1’s but for Open world and small scale. Because THAT is where the DK is hurting the most
    Edited by Nelson_Rebel on November 23, 2017 2:16AM
  • VaranisArano
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    In small groups, buffing my magDK's sustainability is going to make me able to chain people in who try to mist form/streak away/stealth away from my group even more than I already do. In PVE, buffing sustainability will make my tanking even easier. So please, do buff my sustainability!

    Which is to say that for the content I do, I'm not really feeling the lack and when I do, I'm pretty sure its me failing, not my class. But I'll benefit from buffing a MagDK, so I'm not really going to complain even if I don't think its necessary for what I do.
  • Waffennacht
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    I mean you can't avoid Dawnbreaker, EotS, Jabs, Sub Assault or any other ability that will wreck you because you can't LoS, or Flee because you just got rooted by the DK in the group.

    I've heard MANY players say you cannot balance for 1v1 but rather small scale. And in small-scale this would be abused

    In small scale this still wouldn’t be an issue. The effects of roots is still limited to a very small amount of people, in an incredibly short range.

    The dk’s cannot abuse this ability because any idiot trying to spam this will be out of magic in less than 10 seconds because he will still be charged the magic even if he cannot cast it on people withh immunity to roots at the time or if anyone is out of range the cost for the 5meter ability is still charged. This skill is literally not abusable anymore with global cooldowns in addition to all that.

    I’m not doing this to balance for 1v1’s but for Open world and small scale. Because THAT is where the DK is hurting the most

    In the high end PvP BGs I run, there is no "spam like an idiot" because it only takes a few seconds of roots before you die. I do believe you made a good argument for sustain and mobility, I believe those can be addressed without the unnecessary buff of unpurgeable to talons.
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
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  • Killset
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    So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?

    Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.

    Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)

    Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi

    Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
    I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.

    Edited by Killset on November 23, 2017 8:05PM
  • Nelson_Rebel
    Nelson_Rebel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Killset wrote: »
    So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?

    Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.

    Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)

    Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi

    Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
    I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.

    I just rolled a mag sorc.

    Idc anymore, the class is dead, useless, and uneeded or wanted in any form or fashion.

    F it. Why bother anymore, Just gonna make
    it a troll tank Like everyone else is doing because the class damage is wothless, and has a worthless skill set with no mobililty or exexution or sustainability.


    Mag sorc and pvp troll tank just like every fn1 else. Congrats you all win
    Edited by Nelson_Rebel on November 23, 2017 8:11PM
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Killset wrote: »
    So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?

    Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.

    Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)

    Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi

    Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
    I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.

    Maybe not the class, but the zergers yes.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Nelson_Rebel
    Nelson_Rebel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Killset wrote: »
    So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?

    Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.

    Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)

    Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi

    Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
    I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.

    Maybe not the class, but the zergers yes.

    No need to respond, I already rolled a mag sorc and made my Useless dk into a troll pvp tank
    because thats all everyone wants a dk to do. Troll, tank and block
    Edited by Nelson_Rebel on November 23, 2017 8:25PM
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Killset wrote: »
    So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?

    Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.

    Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)

    Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi

    Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
    I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.

    Maybe not the class, but the zergers yes.

    No need to respond, I already rolled a mag sorc and made my Useless dk into a troll pvp tank
    because thats all everyone wants a dk to do. Troll, tank and block

    Nah, your ideas are *** and you respond like a child. Are MDKs underpowered, yes. Does that mean break something else, no?
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Nelson_Rebel
    Nelson_Rebel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Killset wrote: »
    So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?

    Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.

    Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)

    Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi

    Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
    I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.

    Maybe not the class, but the zergers yes.

    No need to respond, I already rolled a mag sorc and made my Useless dk into a troll pvp tank
    because thats all everyone wants a dk to do. Troll, tank and block

    Nah, your ideas are *** and you respond like a child. Are MDKs underpowered, yes. Does that mean break something else, no?

    Someone's riled.


    Mag dk's are useless dude. The skills are useless and there is no damage, sustainability, execution, pointless in trials.


    Dk = Only useful as a block troll tank and PvE.

    That's all. And the thread is over. So goodbye
    Edited by Nelson_Rebel on November 23, 2017 8:46PM
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I...

    My MagDK isn't useless! I provide plenty of utility to my group in PVP, with chains, and slows, and high defense + heals, and standards and dragon leaps, and...

    Oh, wait, you're using the definition of useless that says your DPS and other skills are slightly less optimal than some other classes' so its useless and forget playing them ever.

    Honestly, play what you like. I have people telling me that my MagDK Healer is playing on hard mode in PVP and I'm like whatever, I like playing her. Play what you want, have fun doing it, and you'll be fine. Screw the flavor of the month. I've stuck with my MagDK through thick and thin, PVE and PVP, and I still love playing her.

    If you don't love playing MagDK, find something that you do love. ESO is a game, find something you love and spend your time playing that.
  • Killset
    Killset
    ✭✭✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Killset wrote: »
    So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?

    Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.

    Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)

    Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi

    Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
    I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.

    Maybe not the class, but the zergers yes.

    No need to respond, I already rolled a mag sorc and made my Useless dk into a troll pvp tank
    because thats all everyone wants a dk to do. Troll, tank and block

    Nah, your ideas are *** and you respond like a child. Are MDKs underpowered, yes. Does that mean break something else, no?

    Someone's riled.


    Mag dk's are useless dude. The skills are useless and there is no damage, sustainability, execution, pointless in trials.


    Dk = Only useful as a block troll tank and PvE.

    That's all. And the thread is over. So goodbye

    What platform you on?... my MagDK is a monster.

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