Waffennacht wrote: »Disagree with the unpurgeable idea
VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the problem is that for all you want to buff MagDKs for PVP, ZOS has to balance DKs around the fact that they do make up a large portion of PVE tanks.
I mean, I main a MagDK tank and I'll be delighted to get better sustainability and better talons. But consider what happens when you give DKs, a class that already as some of the best crowd control, group buffs, and defensive skills in the game, better sustainability again. DKs for tanks forever. Wardens make for decent tanks now, but even then, better sustain would certainly make DKs the better choice, all the time.
I also PVP on my MagDK, so I'm not opposed to ZOS buffing DKs for PVP. But I do understand that ZOS has to balance MagDKs against the predominance of DKs as PVE tanks.
•Allow Talons and Fossile to be unpurgable/uncleansable
Waffennacht wrote: »Disagree with the unpurgeable idea
•Allow Talons and Fossile to be unpurgable/uncleansable
No... Just no.
Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Disagree with the unpurgeable idea
Why do you disagree with the unpurgable Idea? You can still block, heal, cast, buff, gap close and even cloak inside of talons and you can streak (if a sorc) or simply roll dodge out of it. And it even has a global cooldown on in now.
Why are we the only class that can’t have an effective means of doing damage? We can’t have any mobility, we can have any escape, and now we can’t even lock players down to do our only means of doing effective damage. Becaue even if we get someone pressured we cannot even execute without an ultimate which is just not feasible since we have to USE ultimates just to try to keep resources up
VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the problem is that for all you want to buff MagDKs for PVP, ZOS has to balance DKs around the fact that they do make up a large portion of PVE tanks.
I mean, I main a MagDK tank and I'll be delighted to get better sustainability and better talons. But consider what happens when you give DKs, a class that already as some of the best crowd control, group buffs, and defensive skills in the game, better sustainability again. DKs for tanks forever. Wardens make for decent tanks now, but even then, better sustain would certainly make DKs the better choice, all the time.
I also PVP on my MagDK, so I'm not opposed to ZOS buffing DKs for PVP. But I do understand that ZOS has to balance MagDKs against the predominance of DKs as PVE tanks.
Waffennacht wrote: »So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?
Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.
Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)
Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi
Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Allow Talons and Fossile to be unpurgable/uncleansable
No... Just no.
Give me a reason why then.
Read thisNelson_Rebel wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Disagree with the unpurgeable idea
Why do you disagree with the unpurgable Idea? You can still block, heal, cast, buff, gap close and even cloak inside of talons and you can streak (if a sorc) or simply roll dodge out of it. And it even has a global cooldown on in now.
Why are we the only class that can’t have an effective means of doing damage? We can’t have any mobility, we can have any escape, and now we can’t even lock players down to do our only means of doing effective damage. Becaue even if we get someone pressured we cannot even execute without an ultimate which is just not feasible since we have to USE ultimates just to try to keep resources up
Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Allow Talons and Fossile to be unpurgable/uncleansable
No... Just no.
Give me a reason why then.
Read thisNelson_Rebel wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Disagree with the unpurgeable idea
Why do you disagree with the unpurgable Idea? You can still block, heal, cast, buff, gap close and even cloak inside of talons and you can streak (if a sorc) or simply roll dodge out of it. And it even has a global cooldown on in now.
Why are we the only class that can’t have an effective means of doing damage? We can’t have any mobility, we can have any escape, and now we can’t even lock players down to do our only means of doing effective damage. Becaue even if we get someone pressured we cannot even execute without an ultimate which is just not feasible since we have to USE ultimates just to try to keep resources up
Purges and such are not free skills. At best you can get 2 seconds of immunity to talons via dodgeroll, but after that you are fair game for another immobilize.
Dragonknight is a class built around controlling the area immediately around them, and forcing people into drawn out fights, punishing enemies by forcing them to constantly drain their own resources in order to deal with their damage over time and crowd control.
You list things that you can do from inside talons, but you need to remember that while you are immobilised you cannot turn your character, which is a huge disadvantage vs anyone with a brain. Talons force you to dodge out, and the immobilise immunity on dodge lasts a lot less time than the debuff from dodging.
As far as sustain goes, just build it into your gear like literally everyone else has to.
Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Allow Talons and Fossile to be unpurgable/uncleansable
No... Just no.
Give me a reason why then.
Read thisNelson_Rebel wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Disagree with the unpurgeable idea
Why do you disagree with the unpurgable Idea? You can still block, heal, cast, buff, gap close and even cloak inside of talons and you can streak (if a sorc) or simply roll dodge out of it. And it even has a global cooldown on in now.
Why are we the only class that can’t have an effective means of doing damage? We can’t have any mobility, we can have any escape, and now we can’t even lock players down to do our only means of doing effective damage. Becaue even if we get someone pressured we cannot even execute without an ultimate which is just not feasible since we have to USE ultimates just to try to keep resources up
Purges and such are not free skills. At best you can get 2 seconds of immunity to talons via dodgeroll, but after that you are fair game for another immobilize.
Dragonknight is a class built around controlling the area immediately around them, and forcing people into drawn out fights, punishing enemies by forcing them to constantly drain their own resources in order to deal with their damage over time and crowd control.
You list things that you can do from inside talons, but you need to remember that while you are immobilised you cannot turn your character, which is a huge disadvantage vs anyone with a brain. Talons force you to dodge out, and the immobilise immunity on dodge lasts a lot less time than the debuff from dodging.
As far as sustain goes, just build it into your gear like literally everyone else has to.
Waffennacht wrote: »Again you're punishing very specific classes and specs.
Talons is not a defensive weapon, it is offensive, because I can still cast etc does not reduce the effectiveness of Talons' purpose. That's like saying because you can still cast; EoTs needs to be buffed. Especially in group play, lack of motion is a death sentence - you practically say it yourself. Why would I be against giving Talon's unpurgeable? Because you're extremely pigeonholing builds, especially in group play - for a reason I don't believe you made a good enough point for. I do not agree talons and the DK toolkit is comparable to birds and the fact they are not dodgeable.
But I digress.
You are not 100% able to counter play, it's more like 0% because mobility>abilities
Edit: punctuation
Edit to your edit lol: again I will agree about sustaining etc, I'll argue here and now for that, and then I'll argue if you address the sustain issues you won't Need unpurgeable talons
Waffennacht wrote: »I mean you can't avoid Dawnbreaker, EotS, Jabs, Sub Assault or any other ability that will wreck you because you can't LoS, or Flee because you just got rooted by the DK in the group.
I've heard MANY players say you cannot balance for 1v1 but rather small scale. And in small-scale this would be abused
Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I mean you can't avoid Dawnbreaker, EotS, Jabs, Sub Assault or any other ability that will wreck you because you can't LoS, or Flee because you just got rooted by the DK in the group.
I've heard MANY players say you cannot balance for 1v1 but rather small scale. And in small-scale this would be abused
In small scale this still wouldn’t be an issue. The effects of roots is still limited to a very small amount of people, in an incredibly short range.
The dk’s cannot abuse this ability because any idiot trying to spam this will be out of magic in less than 10 seconds because he will still be charged the magic even if he cannot cast it on people withh immunity to roots at the time or if anyone is out of range the cost for the 5meter ability is still charged. This skill is literally not abusable anymore with global cooldowns in addition to all that.
I’m not doing this to balance for 1v1’s but for Open world and small scale. Because THAT is where the DK is hurting the most
I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.Waffennacht wrote: »So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?
Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.
Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)
Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi
Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.Waffennacht wrote: »So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?
Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.
Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)
Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi
Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.Waffennacht wrote: »So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?
Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.
Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)
Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi
Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.Waffennacht wrote: »So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?
Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.
Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)
Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi
Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
Maybe not the class, but the zergers yes.
Nelson_Rebel wrote: »I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.Waffennacht wrote: »So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?
Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.
Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)
Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi
Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
Maybe not the class, but the zergers yes.
No need to respond, I already rolled a mag sorc and made my Useless dk into a troll pvp tank
because thats all everyone wants a dk to do. Troll, tank and block
Nelson_Rebel wrote: »I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.Waffennacht wrote: »So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?
Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.
Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)
Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi
Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
Maybe not the class, but the zergers yes.
No need to respond, I already rolled a mag sorc and made my Useless dk into a troll pvp tank
because thats all everyone wants a dk to do. Troll, tank and block
Nah, your ideas are *** and you respond like a child. Are MDKs underpowered, yes. Does that mean break something else, no?
Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »I have to agree here. I am against anything that further restricts movement. Snares, roots , and stuns have already spun too far out of control. And this is from someone that half mains a MagDK. You need to come at this from the other way... Maybe increase movement or something. But making talon spam uncounterable would push this class far over the top.Waffennacht wrote: »So you want to punish (specifically) counter play because you feel a mobile opponent is too much for a mag DK to handle?
Because it would specifically target out mag Templar (force to dodge roll) rather cast purge - which is the whole reason it exists.
Forward Momentum solely exists to counter roots such as talons, the reason being (especially before 2 sec I was introduced) perma roots is OP. Especially, again, in group settings - where a mDK doesn't need to deal damage to be effective (your unpurgeable talons)
Edit: the rest of the post I did not disagree with fyi
Edit again: even with 2 sec root immunity (because of dodge roll cost increase per roll) you cannot rely on dodge roll alone to counter roots. Even in medium, I run Purge, Shuffle, and roll dodge to escape. I must rotate between all three to maintain resources. I think that's fair enough.
Maybe not the class, but the zergers yes.
No need to respond, I already rolled a mag sorc and made my Useless dk into a troll pvp tank
because thats all everyone wants a dk to do. Troll, tank and block
Nah, your ideas are *** and you respond like a child. Are MDKs underpowered, yes. Does that mean break something else, no?
Someone's riled.
Mag dk's are useless dude. The skills are useless and there is no damage, sustainability, execution, pointless in trials.
Dk = Only useful as a block troll tank and PvE.
That's all. And the thread is over. So goodbye