Magplar fix eta?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Asardes wrote: »

The scaling of some skills like puncturing sweeps and radiant oppression became additive with CP and other bonuses instead of multiplicative, but the % bonuses were not adjusted to compensate for that.

Surely that assumes Zeni intended to "adjust to compensate".

And given in Sept they said they would ask for more info it if it was needed, and haven't yet asked, and had two months to "compensate" if they intended to do so, and haven't so compensated, then the assumption must be that as far as Zeni are concerned those two skills are WAI.

Absent an admission from Zeni that those skills broken we have no choice but to assume they are not.

And that, I am afraid, makes it very much a L2P issue - that is learn to play without relying on those two skills.

All The Best

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Fodore wrote: »

Yes but you need to be aware that getting those numbers and getting bis gear is fun for some people, fun is subjective. I find it very fun to ride horses but you may not.

Was a nice try at covering your tracks though I'll give you that.

Oh sure, different people derive fun from the game in many different ways.

I would suggest that someone coming here and saying "fix X, Y and Z please, I am not doing enough DPS using them" is indicative of them no longer having fun using X, Y and Z though.

Way back when I stated playing ESO my main was a Sorc, the moment I stopped having fun with it I started another toon, I didn't come here and ask for Sorc to be changed.

All The Best

Asardes

Well when a skill that is an execute does less damage on low health targets than non execute skills that cost less to cast and can be cast within the same time window it means that skill doesn't fulfill the role it has been deigned for anymore.

People have indeed adapted removing those skills from their rotation. Templar now plays almost exactly like non-pet Sorcerer and parses about the same. That means the class individuality has been lost.

As for things staying broken for long periods it doesn't mean they are working as intended. For example Willow's Path set stayed broken for 2 years until they fixed the recovery formula. And they only fixed it after it had been brought up dozens of times on the forums.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Asardes wrote: »

Well when a skill that is an execute does less damage on low health targets than non execute skills that cost less to cast and can be cast within the same time window it means that skill doesn't fulfill the role it has been deigned for anymore.

People have indeed adapted removing those skills from their rotation. Templar now plays almost exactly like non-pet Sorcerer and parses about the same. That means the class individuality has been lost.

As for things staying broken for long periods it doesn't mean they are working as intended. For example Willow's Path set stayed broken for 2 years until they fixed the recovery formula. And they only fixed it after it had been brought up dozens of times on the forums.

1) Zeni could argue they no longer see RO as an execute, and that would get around that point, it might be considered disingenuous if they did so, but they could.
2) I agree 100% with you about Class Individuality - but that goes for all classes - Morrowind, for all its good points, also included a massive homogenisation process that did no favours to the game at all IMO.
3) Fair point.


All The Best

Asardes

Execute = skill damage scales inversely with % target health. Not to mention that, compared with other magicka execute skills like Mage's Wrath and Impale, Radiant Oppression/Glory is a channel and therefore can be neither weaved with LA nor block cast so it puts the caster at a disadvantage.

NiclasFridholm

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

The scaling of some skills like puncturing sweeps and radiant oppression became additive with CP and other bonuses instead of multiplicative, but the % bonuses were not adjusted to compensate for that.

Surely that assumes Zeni intended to "adjust to compensate".

And given in Sept they said they would ask for more info it if it was needed, and haven't yet asked, and had two months to "compensate" if they intended to do so, and haven't so compensated, then the assumption must be that as far as Zeni are concerned those two skills are WAI.

Absent an admission from Zeni that those skills broken we have no choice but to assume they are not.

And that, I am afraid, makes it very much a L2P issue - that is learn to play without relying on those two skills.

All The Best

You really sound like you think Zeni knows how their game/math works. Its 2 classdefining skills that are completly broken and you call it L2P. Why would you even bother commenting if you clearly have No idea Whats going on!?

Reverb

Staff heavy attacks do more damage than sweeps now, and using RO in the execute phase is lower DPS than a "normal" rotation with staff skills and light-heavy attacks. Any Templar using these skills for competitive content is gimping themself. The numbers have been crunched and posted over and over again.

That seems plenty broken to me, but not to Zeni. They are content for Templar to have no stun, no class roots, inferior healing ultimate (to Warden), and low class dps.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

You really sound like you think Zeni knows how their game/math works. Its 2 classdefining skills that are completly broken and you call it L2P. Why would you even bother commenting if you clearly have No idea Whats going on!?

For all the concerns I have about Class and overall Game Balance (and believe me I have a lot) I am 100% certain that Zeni know more about the math-behind-the-scenes than we do - because they have direct access to it, and we don't.

Whether or not they can take that knowledge and use it to fix the game is debatable - the one thing I have most concerns about in this game is the ability of the Dev in charge of game balance to deliver that, the evidence so far is pretty damning on that score.

You may think those two class defining skills are broken (I do too, but not because of the math, but because of the visual effect of them).

As long as anyone considers those Skills broken and continues to use them it is very much a L2P issue.

If you know its broken and continue to use it, knowing it gimps your DPS, the problem is with you, not Zeni; because no one at all is forcing you to use those skills.

All The Best

Urza1234

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

This below in “ “ was taken from @ZOS_Wrobel from PTS 16 thread for templars at least shows they are looking into it but as norm no further updates 26th Sept.

Both skills have been impacted by the damage modifiers over several patches. Impale for NBs was the same but got a fix/buff in HOTR and now outperforms Jesus Beam significantly.

“Lastly, we’ve seen some of you mention that the damage from Radiant Destruction and Biting Jabs appears to be incorrect. We’re digging into this, and will let you all if we need additional information.”

Well, as they apparently haven't for "additional information" the ONLY logical conclusion is that they don't think its broken.

All The Best

This is what I believe is known as an argument from ignorance. You assume that because your conclusion has not yet been proven false it therefore must be true.

Fang_of_Lorkhaj

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Fang_of_Lorkhaj wrote: »

And if my grandmother had a moustache, she would be my grandfather. Radiant Oppression is an execute. Has been and always will be. Stop trolling my thread and leave please.

You'll note I pointed out they could argue it was no longer an execute AND I stated it would be disingenuous of them to do so.

You don't get to make the decision on what is or is not an Execute.
Zeni do.
It really is that simple.

BTW: Not sure if you know this, but just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn't make them a Troll.

All The Best

Zanimax has labelled radiant oppression an execute from the beginning you ***. Get out of my thread. Stop trying to troll everyone.

Fang_of_Lorkhaj

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Fang_of_Lorkhaj wrote: »

And if my grandmother had a moustache, she would be my grandfather. Radiant Oppression is an execute. Has been and always will be. Stop trolling my thread and leave please.

You'll note I pointed out they could argue it was no longer an execute AND I stated it would be disingenuous of them to do so.

You don't get to make the decision on what is or is not an Execute.
Zeni do.
It really is that simple.

BTW: Not sure if you know this, but just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn't make them a Troll.

All The Best

Radiant Oppression

Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing 10 Magic Damage over 2.5 seconds. Deals up to additional damage in proportion to your current Magicka.
Low health targets take up to additional damage.

That is referred to as an Execute Ability. L2P dude. "ALL THE BEST"

SammyFable

Soon

Ariades_swe

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Can you give a bit of detail why instead of just saying it’s “broken”?

Puncture is a sword & board skill ... not a Templar skill.

...

Sneaky-Snurr

Don't worry. This is just a misunderstanding.
Even though it is an unintended feature, it is there to stay and incorporated just like Animation Cancelling!

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove a few posts for some flaming, which is against the Forum Rules. For further posts please be sure to remain on topic and civil with one another regardless of where they stand on the matter.

Thank you for understanding.

Ch4mpTW

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Puncturing Sweeps and Radiant Oppression broken?

Yeah, right, still two of the most powerful abilities in the game.

As a Magplar who has NEVER used Puncturing Sweeps or Radiant Oppression this sounds very much like a L2P issue to me.

All The Best

How exactly does 1 call something a “L2P Issue”, when they have supposedly never used something to begin with? C’mon now, chill out with that. That’s legit ignorance right there. Literally by definition.

tinythinker

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

I enjoy completing difficult content too, but I won't allow myself to be forced to rely on one or two allegedly broken skill to do that.

If I can't do it with those skills, I'll work damned hard to find a workaround.

I've never liked how PS or RO look - their animations are some of the worst in the game, so I decided I'd just not use them - because "liking how I look" is also part of my "fun". So I work out ways to make my build viable, admittedly for "my play style, without them.

As DPS/Healer on my Magplar I have never once had complaints about my performance - except when first doing content new to me and I was still in the "learning phase", once I learn how a fight works I am good.

All The Best

That's awesome!

For you!

But unless you are presuming to tell other players what they should prefer or how to enjoy the game, whether and when the damage scaling issue is fixed won't matter to you anyway since you claim you don't use those abilities. Those who are aware of the issue and want it fixed will keep asking about the status of situation. This thread and the issue involved doesn't appear to affect you at all so thanks for your input but many people want to get an answer all the same.

Have a great day

O_LYKOS

So much attitude towards other peoples comments and views I hope they don't fix it

Fodore

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Fodore wrote: »

Yes but you need to be aware that getting those numbers and getting bis gear is fun for some people, fun is subjective. I find it very fun to ride horses but you may not.

Was a nice try at covering your tracks though I'll give you that.

Oh sure, different people derive fun from the game in many different ways.

I would suggest that someone coming here and saying "fix X, Y and Z please, I am not doing enough DPS using them" is indicative of them no longer having fun using X, Y and Z though.

Way back when I stated playing ESO my main was a Sorc, the moment I stopped having fun with it I started another toon, I didn't come here and ask for Sorc to be changed.

All The Best

I see completely where you are coming from and for the most part agree, however, this case is different. Yes this post would usually be indicative of someone not having fun with x, y and z and whilst this still may be true the root cause of it is different. Typically it may be because of a nerf or something and people are whining that the gear they farmed cannot perform as it used to in which case I would say suck it up. However, op suggests that there is a long standing bug causing this which is stopping them having fun. In other words, because I feel like I explained my point poorly, they should not be stopped having fun in their own way because if a bug but instead only because of changes that are meant to happen, and the so called 'victim' of theee changes should get over it.

I still most likely explained poorly but hopefully you see my point

Ch4mpTW

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove a few posts for some flaming, which is against the Forum Rules. For further posts please be sure to remain on topic and civil with one another regardless of where they stand on the matter.

Thank you for understanding.

@ZOS_AntonioP Ay man, I didn’t know you were still modding these forums. That’s what’s up. Keep doing a good job in cleaning up the forums, b. Bless you, bruh.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

You really sound like you think Zeni knows how their game/math works. Its 2 classdefining skills that are completly broken and you call it L2P. Why would you even bother commenting if you clearly have No idea Whats going on!?

For all the concerns I have about Class and overall Game Balance (and believe me I have a lot) I am 100% certain that Zeni know more about the math-behind-the-scenes than we do - because they have direct access to it, and we don't.

Whether or not they can take that knowledge and use it to fix the game is debatable - the one thing I have most concerns about in this game is the ability of the Dev in charge of game balance to deliver that, the evidence so far is pretty damning on that score.

You may think those two class defining skills are broken (I do too, but not because of the math, but because of the visual effect of them).

As long as anyone considers those Skills broken and continues to use them it is very much a L2P issue.

If you know its broken and continue to use it, knowing it gimps your DPS, the problem is with you, not Zeni; because no one at all is forcing you to use those skills.

All The Best

Both skills scaled one way pre homestead patch and the another way post homestead. The devs made no mention to this in the patch notes. They acknowledged posts made early on and said they'd look into. The issue most of us have is there lack of follow through it's been 6+months with no word if it is or isn't working as intended. You can play wich ever way you so choose, but you consistently imposing your will apon us is far from a solution. The idea that all we have to do is what you think is best and we'll be happy is ignorant.

JDC1985

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

You really sound like you think Zeni knows how their game/math works. Its 2 classdefining skills that are completly broken and you call it L2P. Why would you even bother commenting if you clearly have No idea Whats going on!?

For all the concerns I have about Class and overall Game Balance (and believe me I have a lot) I am 100% certain that Zeni know more about the math-behind-the-scenes than we do - because they have direct access to it, and we don't.

Whether or not they can take that knowledge and use it to fix the game is debatable - the one thing I have most concerns about in this game is the ability of the Dev in charge of game balance to deliver that, the evidence so far is pretty damning on that score.

You may think those two class defining skills are broken (I do too, but not because of the math, but because of the visual effect of them).

As long as anyone considers those Skills broken and continues to use them it is very much a L2P issue.

If you know its broken and continue to use it, knowing it gimps your DPS, the problem is with you, not Zeni; because no one at all is forcing you to use those skills.

All The Best

Both skills scaled one way pre homestead patch and the another way post homestead. The devs made no mention to this in the patch notes. They acknowledged posts made early on and said they'd look into. The issue most of us have is there lack of follow through it's been 6+months with no word if it is or isn't working as intended. You can play wich ever way you so choose, but you consistently imposing your will apon us is far from a solution. "The idea that all we have to do is what you think is best and we'll be happy is ignorant." THIS STATEMENT RIGHT HERE SO SO SO TRUE

ADarklore

Our only hope is the upcoming 'class balance' will see them finally fix this problem!! Although, my concern is that Wrobel stated in his comment, “... Biting Jabs appears to be incorrect" he didn't say anything about 'Sweep' or "Puncturing Strikes", hopefully he just misspoke.

rustic_potato

The fix will happen. ZOS has already acknowledged that the way executes were scaling was borked. Just give it one more year. Till then Stamplar is the way to satisfy my templar needs.

Still a bit salty that I lost about 20% dps on my main DD. 45k single target is still way over the capacity of 99.99% of the casual player base so not too worried.

tinythinker

O_LYKOS wrote: »

So much attitude towards other peoples comments and views I hope they don't fix it

So you don't like how some people, now edited by a mod, replied in this thread, so thousands of players shouldn't benefit from a bug fix? Really? I don't think you mean that.

the_man_of_steal

I don't even bother with RO anymore in single player PVE since it's useless up until 10% or below for bosses... I don't really care about them fixing an execute as much as they need to fix sweeps. This is not a L2P issue at all templars are the weakest class and its not close.

Alexandrious

Hmm, this really does seem like a l2p issue. First ive heard of this and I frequent these boards.

All the Kek

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

[
Both skills scaled one way pre homestead patch and the another way post homestead. The devs made no mention to this in the patch notes. They acknowledged posts made early on and said they'd look into. The issue most of us have is there lack of follow through it's been 6+months with no word if it is or isn't working as intended. You can play wich ever way you so choose, but you consistently imposing your will apon us is far from a solution. The idea that all we have to do is what you think is best and we'll be happy is ignorant.

I get it, I really do.

But if those Skills have been broken for six months why are you still using them?!?!?

I don't care how you play, it bothers me not one bit, go at it and do whatever makes you happy.

But to claim Zenimax are to blame because you insist on using a "broken skill" and one they have shown no inclination to fix is simply wrong.

You know it is broken, stop using it - simples.

All The Best

Apache_Kid

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

You really sound like you think Zeni knows how their game/math works. Its 2 classdefining skills that are completly broken and you call it L2P. Why would you even bother commenting if you clearly have No idea Whats going on!?

For all the concerns I have about Class and overall Game Balance (and believe me I have a lot) I am 100% certain that Zeni know more about the math-behind-the-scenes than we do - because they have direct access to it, and we don't.

Whether or not they can take that knowledge and use it to fix the game is debatable - the one thing I have most concerns about in this game is the ability of the Dev in charge of game balance to deliver that, the evidence so far is pretty damning on that score.

You may think those two class defining skills are broken (I do too, but not because of the math, but because of the visual effect of them).

As long as anyone considers those Skills broken and continues to use them it is very much a L2P issue.

If you know its broken and continue to use it, knowing it gimps your DPS, the problem is with you, not Zeni; because no one at all is forcing you to use those skills.

All The Best

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

[
Both skills scaled one way pre homestead patch and the another way post homestead. The devs made no mention to this in the patch notes. They acknowledged posts made early on and said they'd look into. The issue most of us have is there lack of follow through it's been 6+months with no word if it is or isn't working as intended. You can play wich ever way you so choose, but you consistently imposing your will apon us is far from a solution. The idea that all we have to do is what you think is best and we'll be happy is ignorant.

I get it, I really do.

But if those Skills have been broken for six months why are you still using them?!?!?

I don't care how you play, it bothers me not one bit, go at it and do whatever makes you happy.

But to claim Zenimax are to blame because you insist on using a "broken skill" and one they have shown no inclination to fix is simply wrong.

You know it is broken, stop using it - simples.

All The Best

This is some of the strangest logic I've ever heard. Victim blaming at its finest. You're the type of person who says someone who gets mugged deserved it because they were walking alone at night.

The only party that is to blame is the one that broke the skill and refuses to fix it.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Apache_Kid wrote: »

This is some of the strangest logic I've ever heard. Victim blaming at its finest. You're the type of person who says someone who gets mugged deserved it because they were walking alone at night.

I refuse to engage in intelligent debate with someone who equates "not being forced to use a broken skill in a game, but using it anyway" with "getting mugged", and then tries to claim it is "victim blaming" to point out the former is a problem with a very simple solution.

People using skills THEY KNOW are broken are not "victims", they are fools.

There's a difference.

All The Best