"Sniper" Stamina Nightblade PvP Build [Clockwork City Patch]

DDuke · February 2018

krachall wrote: »

I'm having trouble getting the Acid Arrow/Lethal Arrow combo to hit correctly. Even when I'm just on the edge of the Acid Arrow range, it looks like my Lethal Arrow isn't getting the damage bump from Asylum if I fire Lethal first.

If I do it in reverse order (Acid arrow then Lethal), it works perfectly. But firing Lethal (and queuing acid during the draw phase) isn't giving me the damage bonus.

Tested & still works for me on PTS & Live - it's just kinda hard to be at the exact right distance at times & land the Acid Spray against a moving target.

If you've got Combat Metrics addon (or a similar one), check your combat log next time you try the combo. If Acid Spray registers first, the 50% damage taken debuff will be applied to target before Lethal Arrow lands.

exiars10 · February 2018

I still run in Cyrodiil with my PvE gear in PvP (Kra‘gh + 5x Hunding + 5x Spriggan)

and it‘s actually pretty effective against NPCs when attacking resources. Of course I easily die if I get caught by enemy players (armor is divine) but it‘s always my bad positioning plus lag.

Anyway, I played with ESO Build Editor to see what is the most effective combo.

Testing setup
Kra‘gh Monster Helmet (heavy / divine) is always used as I have it (except in one combo).
Bows are always sharpened except Hunding‘s is nirnhoned (as I have it). I am completely aware it‘s not the fairest comparision, but if you would transmutate bow traits, then situation would change.
Max stamina enchants in armor and weapon damage in jewelry.
Used food is for max health + max stamina.

Here are the set combos:
Kra‘gh + 5x Hunding‘s Rage + 5x Marksman‘s Crest
Kra‘gh + 5x Night‘s Silence + 5x Night Mother‘s Embrance
Kra‘gh + 5x Morag Tong + 5x Marksman‘s Crest
Kra‘gh + 5x Morag Tong + 5x Sheer Venom
Kra‘gh + 5x Hunding‘s Rage + 5x Sheer Venom
Kra‘gh + 5x Hawk‘s Eye + 5x Marksman‘s Crest
5x Marksman‘s Crest + 3x Agility + 3x Unfathomable Darkness
5x Hunding‘s Rage + 3x Agility + 3x Unfathomable Darkness

Findings
1) Difference of effective weapon power between highest and lowest combo is ~7%.
2) Weapon damage difference goes up to 7%, too.
3) All combos (except with Sheer Venom) have almost the same stamina recovery.
3) Kra‘gh + 5x Morag Tong / Hunding‘s Rage + 5x Sheer Venom is the strongest combo against players and it‘s beyond disgusting! Poison Injection hits really really hard. But it has it‘s own problems – good luck grinding Sheer Venom and this combo has stamina sustain problem (~33% less than all other combos). Of course you can use stamina recovery glyphs in jewelry, you lose (effective) weapon power but I still think it‘s worth. My main problem is terrible grinding so it‘s off for me.
4) NS + NME combo is the best for IC, skyshard hunting, delves, dolmens, PvE quests and for various PvP stealth actions in open field. The best utility combo and hits NPCs strong as the most other combos. EDIT If you are not Bosmer or Khajit, avoid this combo.
5) 5x Hunding‘s Rage + 3x Agility + 3x Unfathomable Darkness is the strongest combo against NPCs even if you probably need to use stamina recovery glyph on one jewelry.
6) Kra‘gh + 5x Hunding‘s Rage + 5x Marksman‘s Crest is overall the most balanced combo: against players, NPCs, for healing and sustain.
7) Kra‘gh + 5x Hawk‘s Eye + 5x Marksman‘s Crest is the weakest combo and should be avoided no matter how do you play.
8) Hawk‘s Eye is IMO not good set and Vicecanon of Venom's 5th bonus is bad joke.
9) If you are rich or have time to harvest plants, Assassin's Guile set can be set up for really nasty combo.

TL; DR
Use what suits you (play style, price, obtainability and etc). It's a very good thing that there are so many good sets' combos for PvP.

Hope it helps somebody

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exiars10 · March 2018

I like to experiment and to try to improve other people's great builds. So here is the another one.

How to solo take over resources with snipe

This is good ol' combo, but it's worth mentioning with one improvement.

Gear
Use whatever best suit you as explained above. Hawk's Eye can be used, too and Eagle Eye is overkill.

Skills
1) Lethal Arrow – Poison Injection – Radiant Magelight – Reaper‘s Mark – Propelling Shield / ...
2) Relentless Focus – ...

Having passives in Mages Guild and Support would help a lot for magicka sustain.

Lethal Arrow has as you know 35 m range + 8 m (Battle Spirit). When Propeling Shield is active and you inside it, it goes up to 50 m! Guess which ability has 50 m range, too

? Reaper‘s Mark. Not only it applies Major Fracture/Breach, you get 60% healed after kill and gain Major Berserk.

Rotation is obvious: Mark NPC, activate Relentless Focus then Propelling Shield and Magelight and hit Lethal Arrow from the sneak. You should kill on average 4-5 NPCs in 20 sec time. With just one friend with the same setup you can quickly overatake resource.

Bonus
This also works exceptionally well when you are defending keep.
Hint: badly positioned enemy players who operate siege weapons. Mark them just before LA hits

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exiars10 · March 2018

EDIT
Ignore message.

@thedude33 is completely right.

thedude33 · March 2018

Magelight counts as magic damage? Have you tested this or is it theorycraft ?

exiars10 · March 2018

You are absolutely right.

Somehow I completely omitted you need to do damage with magicka ability... I parallelly read some else set and just copy/paste without noticing flaw.

My bad

. I edited message.

So, Swamp Rider + Sheer Venom to work, you first need to hit enemy player or NPC with some long range Siphoning ability - Cripple and its morphs are the best bet. Then you have 10 sec to execute combo. This can be easily done when attacking enemy resouces and keeps as there are NPCs.

So yea, it works but it needs additional step. With it, it hits hardest then any other combo.

DDuke · March 2018

exiars10 wrote: »

You are absolutely right.

Somehow I completely omitted you need to do damage with magicka ability... I parallelly read some else set and just copy/paste without noticing flaw.

My bad . I edited message.

So, Swamp Rider + Sheer Venom to work, you first need to hit enemy player or NPC with some long range Siphoning ability - Cripple and its morphs are the best bet. Then you have 10 sec to execute combo. This can be easily done when attacking enemy resouces and keeps as there are NPCs.

So yea, it works but it needs additional step. With it, it hits hardest then any other combo.

Nope, still deals less damage than 3x Agi+1x Kena+1x Kra'gh (even if you were able to get the buff up before burst) and also less damage than 5x Morag Tong.

Sets in order of damage (I've tested all of them):

3x Agi+1x Kena+1x Kra'gh (assuming you also use those monster sets also to go 5/1/1 which would otherwise be impossible with most other bow set combinations)
5x Morag Tong
5x Archer's Mind (stealth burst only)
5x Swamp Raider
5x Spriggan
5x Automaton
5x Hawk's Eye
5x Marksman
5x Hunding's Rage

Also keep in mind that just like Morag Tong (which nets you more damage) Swamp Raider only buffs your poison/disease damage (PI, Lethal Arrow, Acid Spray & Relentless), meaning weaker heals & light attacks.

thedude33 · March 2018

DD, I've watched your videos and believe your testing results. I still find it hard to believe it applies to all play styles though.

I haven't done formal testing like you have. I have used many sets out in Vivec. After every fight I check the damage. For me, nothing has beaten Hundings + Spriggans. with a gold Nirn spriggans and Kragh shoulders. The stats are higher, the tool tips are higher, and the damage is higher. I imagine BGs with tight spaces and in your face fighting is an entirely different game with different needs.

Each and every fight for me is 3 arrows max. 2 snipes and a PI. Opponent is either dead, or is still alive and I have left the fight.

DDuke · March 2018

thedude33 wrote: »

DD, I've watched your videos and believe your testing results. I still find it hard to believe it applies to all play styles though.

I haven't done formal testing like you have. I have used many sets out in Vivec. After every fight I check the damage. For me, nothing has beaten Hundings + Spriggans. with a gold Nirn spriggans and Kragh shoulders. The stats are higher, the tool tips are higher, and the damage is higher. I imagine BGs with tight spaces and in your face fighting is an entirely different game with different needs.

Each and every fight for me is 3 arrows max. 2 snipes and a PI. Opponent is either dead, or is still alive and I have left the fight.

Well, just double checked my numbers on PTS - Spriggan is a bit better than I remembered (but I'd still go for 3x Agi 1x Kena 1x Kra'gh for better heals/dmg on shields).

Lethal Arrow damage on dummy (with all self buffs apart from 5x Hawk Eye stacks):

5x Marksman 5x Hunding's Asylum Bow (5/1/1) - 36 083
5x Marksman 5x Morag Tong Asylum Bow (7 Medium) - 37 557
5x Marksman 3x Agi 1x Kena 1x Kra'gh Asylum Bow (5/1/1) - 38 020
5x Marksman 5x Spriggan Asylum Bow (7 Medium) - 38 347
5x Spriggan 3x Agi 1x Kena 1x Kra'gh Asylum Bow (5/1/1) - 43 729

With Piercing Mark on target:

5x Marksman 5x Hunding's Asylum Bow - 41 514
5x Marksman 5x Morag Tong Asylum Bow - 43 209
5x Marksman 3x Agi 1x Kena 1x Kra'gh Asylum Bow - 43 509
5x Marksman 5x Spriggan Asylum Bow Asylum Bow - 43 601
5x Spriggan 3x Agi 1x Kena 1x Kra'gh Asylum Bow - 49 498

Some easy conclusions:

Hunding's is garbage.
Replacing Marksman with a damage set adds a lot of damage. But it's worth noting that the +8% damage on players from Marksman isn't reflected on the numbers, as dummies don't count as players. In reality Marksman is a very small sacrifice in dmg for an enormous boost in sustain (which is a big, big problem for bow builds).

thedude33 · March 2018

You have me baffled

5x Marksman 5x Spriggan Asylum Bow Asylum Bow - 43 601
5x Spriggan 3x Agi 1x Kena 1x Kra'gh Asylum Bow - 49 498

What shoulders do you have with the marksmen + spriggans ?

1. Agility + Kena = 1451 stamina + 322 weapon damage

2. Hunding = 1096 stamina + 1666 crit + 299 weapon damage

I can see agility + kena would have more base damage but the extra crit rating has to count for something?

I'm not married to hunding. You have me rethinking Archers mind instead. Basically the same stats except lose 299 weapon damage for 15% crit from stealth damage.

Sustain is absolutely not an issue. Those 2 stam recovery attributes are of zero use for me. so marksman gives me 129 wd + 8% damage to players ( which I have been told isn't actually 8%, but that's another topic)

I will try and find a player tonight that will let me shoot him with different combos !

Thanks for the food for thought.

rfennell_ESO · March 2018

exiars10 wrote: »

You are absolutely right.

Somehow I completely omitted you need to do damage with magicka ability... I parallelly read some else set and just copy/paste without noticing flaw.

My bad . I edited message.

So, Swamp Rider + Sheer Venom to work, you first need to hit enemy player or NPC with some long range Siphoning ability - Cripple and its morphs are the best bet. Then you have 10 sec to execute combo. This can be easily done when attacking enemy resouces and keeps as there are NPCs.

So yea, it works but it needs additional step. With it, it hits hardest then any other combo.

You would have to test it, but i recall that it would proc off monster sets and Night Mother's gaze and a host of other things.

DDuke · March 2018

thedude33 wrote: »

You have me baffled

5x Marksman 5x Spriggan Asylum Bow Asylum Bow - 43 601
5x Spriggan 3x Agi 1x Kena 1x Kra'gh Asylum Bow - 49 498

What shoulders do you have with the marksmen + spriggans ?

You can't use any monster set if you run Asylum Bow & two 5p sets

thedude33 wrote: »

1. Agility + Kena + Kra'gh = 1451 stamina + 322 weapon damage + 1487 Penetration

2. Hunding = 1096 stamina + 1666 crit + 299 weapon damage

Fixed that :P

thedude33 wrote: »

I can see agility + kena would have more base damage but the extra crit rating has to count for something?

Not really; that might make the burst more consistent but your maximum burst takes too big of a hit (over 1k dmg less).

Also keep in mind that you're already guaranteed a crit from sneak (especially important for classic snipe builds that don't use Acid Spray to consume that guaranteed crit), how impen affects the value of crit & how you can't crit dmg shields at all.

thedude33 wrote: »

I'm not married to hunding. You have me rethinking Archers mind instead. Basically the same stats except lose 299 weapon damage for 15% crit from stealth damage.

Archer's Mind is probably your best bet for classic snipe builds. I'd use it on my Asylum build if the +15% crit damage from sneak wasn't consumed by the Acid Spray :P

thedude33 wrote: »

Sustain is absolutely not an issue. Those 2 stam recovery attributes are of zero use for me. so marksman gives me 129 wd + 8% damage to players ( which I have been told isn't actually 8%, but that's another topic)

I will try and find a player tonight that will let me shoot him with different combos !

Thanks for the food for thought.

Yeah, it's not 8% since it's bundled up with all other +dmg modifiers - closer to 5% (which is still worth slightly more than Hunding's).

I don't know, maybe classic snipe builds don't have as much sustain issues (Acid Spray/Bombard drain a lot of stamina), but atleast on Asylum build you run out really fast even with 2k unbuffed Bosmer stam regen & Marksman cost reductions.

It's not a problem when just ganking some loners, but 1vX & fighting tankier people becomes problematic.

thedude33 · March 2018

The penetration for krag is already part of my build since I don't have asylum. So I,m guessing that would close the damage gap quite a bit with marks/spriggs as compared to your agility/kena combo with asylum.

Agree that acid spray is very expensive to use.

The majority of my fights are trying to gank loners plus anti gank patrol. I don't participate in 1v X .Sustain is never an issue.

That's why I commented. We are talking apples to oranges. What you do in BGs with asylum and spray couldn't be more different than what I do.

Now i'm going to hunt through my bank looking for all the gear combos.

thedude33 · March 2018

Quick mob testing. with a kragh Shoulder for all combos

Spriggan/Hunding empowered/stealth Snipe

Giant 50,438
Mammoth 50,438

Spriggan/Archers Mind - 345 less weapon damage
Giant 50,788
Mammoth 50,223

The difference not worth worrying about

Needs a couple of pieces of marksmen to test the 3 combos vs a player.

Edit:

Marksman/Spriggan

Giant 42,653
Mammoth 46,986

thedude33 · March 2018

Vs medium armor player in a duel setting. Empowered Snipe from stealth

Spriggan/Hunding - 13,661

Spriggan/Archer Mind - 14,000

Spriggan/Marksman - 13,589