Crown store greed.

Raideen

I played Guild Wars 2 on launch. LOVED the game. LOVED my Asura. I quit after 4 months due to the cash shop draining my wallet.

I played SWTOR at launch. Game was fun, but quit because of bugs/balance. Went back 2 years later and loved the game. Loved their housing, loved the character customizations with armor (being able to transmog slots individually). I subscribed with a monthly sub. I quit after 3 months because of the crown shop draining my wallet.

I played WOW since 2004. When I did not play wow I was playing the above mentioned games (or Warhammer RIP). Of course I subbed to wow and did so for the vast majority of the 12 years I played. I stopped playing a couple months ago, although the last two expansions have been a love hate affair. I never felt they were abusing my wallet, so I gave them tons of money.

I started ESO about 5-6 weeks ago. I am LOVING the game. Housing could use more utility. Mounts and non combat pets could have offerings in game but overall I am enjoying ESO....for now.

I am fully willing to pay for a a game, even monthly as I have done for 12 years in another game, but the crown store greed not only turns me off completely but it has always resulted in me quitting a game.

I went to school for design. So, my perspective might be a bit different than the general player. When I study crown offerings, limited time items, and their overall cost It is obvious to me the psychological component in your design or approach to offering this content. It is designed to force the players hand into expensive purchases on a relatively short timer.

Bean counters have on MANY occasions destroyed games. I see that your European servers are dying down. It cant be due to content, this game has tons of content. Europeans are often more skeptical than Americans, I have to wonder if the crown store greed is a result of you losing customers. I know that why I often quit games like this with cash shops.

Value or a "good deal" is the secret into keeping people around. If I feel like I am getting my moneys worth I will never have buyers remorse but your crown offerings are extremely expensive for digital content and I am starting to regret playing this game. My GF and I intend on getting Morrowind for Christmas, but if I keep down this path of observation on how greedy you are with crown content it will surely end in a fight with my GF who loves this game as well and has no intention of quitting.

Depending on the crown package one buys determines their value, but I average it to 1 USD per 100 crowns. So a 2500 crown horse is $25.00 USD. a 500 crown item is $5.00 USD etc.

I purchased the adept pack. THAT was a good value and completely worth the money. The Clockwork house...is a joke of a price, as are most of the homes and mounts (ESP mounts).

I would not have as much of an issue if you offered this content in game, but its only accessible through the crown store. Which is starting to feel like if I want to customize a game that is traditionally popular with role playing, I have to empty my wallet at the rate of about 75 dollars a month.


I guess my question is. Is it your intent to limit your income by charging stupid prices for digital content that are a terrible value in and of tehmselves? It would seem to me that eliminating scam crates (which of yours are the worst in regards to drop %) and offering the content you make to be accessable full time, or maybe seasona (winter, spring, summer, fall) I know your design behind this is to force the customers hand with "limited time" offerings so you get their cash fast, but is this not shortsighted due to the fact that for the other 95% of the year you are missing out on selling this stuff to new players?

Look I get it. A company needs to make a profit. But what is more important to you. Gouging your current customers until they say they have had enough and quit which results in you preying on new blood, or maintaining a healthy relationship with your customer base which grows your customer base organically because of happy clientele?

Frankly I don't know why I am posting this. I know it will fall on deaf ears. I have to imagine you are completely aware of what you are doing and that its all done by design with intent. I guess for me this is some kind of catharisis that I may reflect on for when the crown store takes its toll and I once again leave a game due to greed.

(Take note of the mistakes made by EA recently and learn from it).

Stewart1874

Totally agree. I think the backlash against EA recently with the star wars game should highlight the growing anger against micro transactions. I'm very happy to accept MMO's are not cheap games to run or produce and micro transactions provide a funding mechanism to support the game and give us all content we want.

However.

To my mind, the crown store should be there to supplement the game not wall off the majority of content to those with big enough wallets. You can currently only unlock very few outfits, pets and mounts within the game itself. The rest is locked behind transactions. Which is very frustrating. But, I'm not an arsehole, heres some constructive criticism. Why not have treasure hunts? Make it a very rare drop that leads you on a bit of a chase round the map picking up various clues (maybe a 5 step process) and at the end you collect a crown store outfit? It maintains the rarity and also the value of the crown store, whilst also giving lucky players the chance to obtain content for free (totally free advertising no?).

Alternatively just include more stuff we can earn in game. Its pretty low which is kinda annoying. The amount of mounts we can unlock is utterly horrific also. like 4 horses? Nah.

I think there is also an ethical question regarding the blatant price gouging of crown store items on limited time release. I've used the example of the midnight stag before and i'll do it again. 4000 crowns is the equivalent of $28, or £21.22 (approximately 3 hours wages for a retail job). Its immoral and predatory. Please stop.

I just want to clarify, I see a value to microtransactions as a concept. They help support a game we all love. However, you need to adhere to the definition of micro, otherwise its predatory. You already hide the true cost behind a make-believe currency so at least have the decency to maintain the definition of the word. Anything over a £10 isn't consumer friendly or micro.

Just as a wee side note: As a result of EA taking the utter *** with Star wars its prompted both the Belgian and Dutch gambling commissions to look into loot boxes as games of chance. So hopefully we might start to see some regulation in the micro transaction/ loot box world.

LadyAstrum

The feeling I get with games at the moment, because of cash shop/microtransaction systems, is that eventually prices will be so expensive that only the rich will be able to afford to play them in any meaningful way. I hope this won't be the case, but many face wage growth suppression for one reason or another, but prices for microtransactions go up and up, it's not too far-fetched.

On mounts in particular, I went to CWC yesterday for the first time, and visited the stables. I saw a nice shiny clockwork type mount standing near the stablemaster and wondered if he sold them. I looked, and no, he had the same old horses. Why can't stablemasters in different zones sell at least one mount that is reflective of that zone? I have nothing against cash shop items, on the contrary I frequently look for things to buy, but there could also be some goodies in-game too.

Is it the case that old WoW type structures are no longer profitable, or are companies like ZoS simply riding on a trend that takes advantage of customers desires for the latest shiny?

I can see a lot of work goes into various design elements in ESO, in particular the houses, but it seems to me a house shouldn't cost more than the game it resides in. Like Raideen, I believe we're probably trying to push against a huge wave, the trend in high prices for virtual goods is concerning, especially if it means the game itself slips below an acceptable standard.

If I'm going to put hard-earned cash on a house, at least give me storage, and please don't say "it's because people don't buy bag upgrades" because those bag upgrades are ridiculously high, so it's no surprise. Any reasonable minded person will look at the upgrade prices and think: "How much gold for 10 slots? Heck no!"

Anyway, I am loving the game too, but I won't buy crown crates either. Might as well throw a wad of money down a random drain. I prefer direct purchases of reasonable amount, that is, like Raideen said, good value for money.

Turelus

When ESO went B2P it was a pretty fair compromise to have a cash shop added.

I'm still fine with it being there as the game is a B2P model and ZOS/Zenimax want to make money.

However it has since its launch gone towards models and behaviours which are not consumer friendly and more based around the kind of avarice you see from big publishers in AAA gaming these days.

My grumble points are:

• The steady increase of pricing and always pushing the bar a little higher.
• The overwhelming number of limited edition items.
• Crown Crates (a business model which is never about the consumer)
• The addition of non-gem items into crates.

Outside of those I have very little issues with the Crown Store being within the game and selling items.

I also don't really believe it's the fault of ZOS as a whole but more likely pressure from their publisher (Zenimax Media) as we've also seen a negative turn from Bethesda this year more focused on money than consumer happiness.

Asardes

[Snip].
I personally don't buy almost any of the fluff in crown store, let alone crown crates. I've only bought DLCs, character slots, and one crown store exclusive motif. I will probably buy some houses of the subscription allowance when I get enough crowns.

[Edited to remove bait]

WillhelmBlack

What essential things are in the Crown Store you need to play the game? We all managed for years without it.

I'm glad it exists tbh, all these Skrillex haircuts and fancy mounts are funding Zenimax and ESO, hopefully for a couple more years.

Wish they'd use the money to fix the servers though.

Defilted

There is not one item in the crown store that you need to be competitive in this game. ESO allows you to play the game with out ever visiting the crown store.

If ZOS forced you to use the crown store to play this game that would be a very different conversation.

Sigtric

There's not a single item found in the crown store you absolutely have to have excepting maybe the DLCs and if you want those you're going to pay for them one way or another. That said you're complaining about greed over non essential items. You don't have to buy them.


If you don't like the price of something don't buy it. It's pretty simple.

DocFrost72

I'm on the fence here. On the one hand, I totally feel some of these frustrations.

Stables should sell regional mounts. Betnihk (sp?) should offer a 50k gold bear, mournhold could offer a 50k gold guar, Rawl could offer a 50k gold senche, Sentinel a camel, etc etc.

A pet merchant could offer simple pets like dogs, cats, and little baby guars.

In general, there could be way more in game drops. This also should include gold purchasable costumes, and if we wanted to be really interesting, we could have rune box drops like those in IC from world vendors that give rare costume runeboxes.

The part I don't agree on is feeling you need to shell out a lot of money. I've played since late August 2014. I have two houses I bought with in game gold, one of which I actually use. Gold buys my gear (or the temper to improve drops), gold repairs my gear and gold helps me stay afloat with furnishing my house/theory crafting.

The only thing I've ever spent money on is fluff. How many hairstyles have I worn just once? How many mounts do I never ride? How many pets have I never shown off? How many tattoos have I since stopped using?

So, to your credit OP, there should be more in game drops! Spending money is not needed to play the game though, let alone meaningfully.

idk

Nvm. OP is entitled to his opinion even though Zos and the other companies he's upset with merely charge what others are willing to pay. Normal business practices.

Forsakiin

I don't understand the disagreement with having a crown store filled with nothing but cosmetic items. This is a non-mandatory subscription MMO with little to no p2w aspects. Not to mention that if you do choose to subscribe you get the benefits + crowns to buy the various cosmetic items. Do people really get so worked up over not being given more free stuff in-game? If you feel something in the store is unappealing or too expensive then just ignore it, at the end of the day your gameplay ability is not being affected. In the past I've wanted some of the houses and apex mounts, but at the time I couldn't set aside the money to get them. I don't dwell on it - I've gotten plenty of other things from the store that I really like.

Nestor

There are quite a few items and costumes that are unlocked by doing game activities. Although beyond the final awards for some DLC content, most of the new costume offerings are Crown Store items. But, no matter what, no costume gives a player an advantage it the game.

You can buy horses in the game, one is only 10,000 gold, about 30 minutes of Legerdemain activity to get that one. If you want a fancy skin, then you have to pay for it.

Are there some greedy practices in the Crown Store? Yes, but as long as the items are cosmetic or their utilitarian function is less that what you can get in the game, then so be it. No one has to buy the things. Now, they do have Trait Research scrolls that are smack dab on the line with Pay to Win, but they are more, Pay to Win Faster.

Crown Crates? Don't even get me started on the Crown Crates.

LadyAstrum

idk wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

What essential things are in the Crown Store you need to play the game? We all managed for years without it.

I'm glad it exists tbh, all these Skrillex haircuts and fancy mounts are funding Zenimax and ESO, hopefully for a couple more years.

Wish they'd use the money to fix the servers though.

Exactly. What's hilarious is OP seems to spend money in the cash shop then quits the game because he spent the money. Essentially wasting the money.

Makes sense to me.

I think it's more the case that players play the cash shop game to begin with out of goodwill, but then awareness that some companies don't actually care that much about customer satisfaction, but care more about customer cash instead. He did mention 'value for money', a sense that what's being paid is a fair exchange for the effort of the product.

I do wonder though, on mounts that are 3500 crowns and up, do they in fact make more money with time-limited, expensive items, or are they losing would-be buyers?

Raideen

.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

So, to your credit OP, there should be more in game drops! Spending money is not needed to play the game though, let alone meaningfully.

I agree with your comment with the exception of this part. People play games for different reasons. I personally like to collect. In ESO collecting comes at a real world price. I would have less of an issue with the crown store if items were offered in game, but there are few offerings in regards to outfits, mounts, and non combat pets. Crown store prices are ridiculous, an item should NEVER cost more than the game itself, or even a monthly sub.

What I find interesting about most of the hateful commentary towards me in this thread (not accusing you of this) is that in every case these people expect me to play how THEY play which is only one small aspect of the offerings in how the game CAN be played. I had over 170 mounts in wow, I bought ONE of the cash shop.

The idea that everyone should be happy with 4 horse mounts and a few non combat pets and a few outfits is ridiculous. This entire franchise revolves around style, art and immersion. I guess some people are just happy with grey. I personally like to experience more than that, life is short.

LadyAstrum

idk wrote: »

[Snip].

I think the point of the OP's post went over your head to be honest. EA is an example of the uproar that can ensue from blatant greed. There is a difference between offering shiny goodies on the side for extra earnings and trying fleece buyers by charging silly prices for something that is pixels.

I've looked over the old threads. I saw how people reacted to the old Elk/Deer mount, and then the cat. Many said "hell, no! I'm not buying that." So it's clear there is a rumble of discontent at the direction of prices. Sitting on your throne of "lolz u've got no self-control" doesn't erase the fact cash shops are getting bolder and pricier, at the expense of the opportunity to earn a decent cosmetic in-game. Otherwise we might as well play virtual barbie, and forget questing etc, just pay thousands for virtual furniture, outfits, mounts and houses. I'm going OTT here, but the point is, at what point does the price of a mount etc become too high that it's no longer tolerable and one leaves the game out of exasperation for the company?

[Edited for quote]

Storymaster

I am an ESO Plus member and I was originally a fan of the Crown Store, but some of the observed practices are disappointing and concerning, especially after I spent so much time originally defending ZOS' position. Not even opening up the can of worms that is Crown Crates, seeing an expensive costume, mount, or home be suddenly available for a limited time only really does rub me, the loyal customer, the wrong way. And we're not talking about once every blue moon--we're talking about a never-ending enslaught of this type of thing coming at us every week. "Buy it, or it's gone!"

I think it's easy for folks that don't care about cosmetics, mounts, or housing to say it's no big deal--yes, because you don't care about those items and you don't even have the presence of mind to put yourself in the shoes your gaming fellows. But for those of us that do, or those of us that like to collect--it very much is unfortunate.

It makes me wonder if anyone has ever ran a metric on how much money it would cost to "unlock" everything that has ever been available in the Crown Store, including those "limited time" offers--not counting Crown Crates (crime crates?) , since the gambling lotto chance to "win" items cannot be quantified.

Rohamad_Ali

I stopped buying things awhile ago . We knew this would continue to get out of hand from the start . Just a couple of years ago non of this existed and the game seemed to have less issues to me . Now that it's the norm so are are regular issues occurring and taking longer to find a fix . Just as I said would be happening back on day one . Everything that I love most in ESO took a bench to the side for more cash shop items . PVP does not get the attention it constantly needs because they can not find a way to involve the cash shop with PVP . It's not profitable portion of the game as others . At least that is my opinion of the reason it is neglected so often . If PVP players spent more money on micro transactions there would be PVP DLC's all the time . It was all inevitable to happen this way .

idk

Nvm. OP is entitled to his opinion even though Zos and the other companies he's upset with merely charge what others are willing to pay. Normal business practices.

ZOS_KatP

Hi all,

We have edited/removed a few comments because they violated our policies on flaming/baiting. Debating specific matters is fine, but please be sure to keep all conversation constructive, civil, and on-topic to the discussion at hand.

Thank you.

PrayingSeraph

I feel a bit in the middle. On one hand I love the fluffy stuff in the store and love supporting the game that I really enjoy and put many hours into, on the other hand I think about how much $$$ I've put into it since I started playing(in July) and I feel guilty...it really hit me the past month between crates and limited time store items.

Beardimus

I don't feel the same. They need to make money, and people pay a premium for shiny things.

EVERY price on the store 50% off as far as I'm concerned as I only ever buy Crowns in the regular sales. And normally then only buy items on sale for double dip.

So if you half the price for everything today how do you feel? @Raideen adept pack cost me 250 & Orsinium 350

If you look at it that way, and let the impulse people fund your game, its fine.

playerkiller247

^i know how you feel! It didn't seem like so much at first but it sucks how much I ended up spending on this last crown crates season.

TelvanniWizard

Raideen wrote: »

I played Guild Wars 2 on launch. LOVED the game. LOVED my Asura. I quit after 4 months due to the cash shop draining my wallet.

I played SWTOR at launch. Game was fun, but quit because of bugs/balance. Went back 2 years later and loved the game. Loved their housing, loved the character customizations with armor (being able to transmog slots individually). I subscribed with a monthly sub. I quit after 3 months because of the crown shop draining my wallet.

I played WOW since 2004. When I did not play wow I was playing the above mentioned games (or Warhammer RIP). Of course I subbed to wow and did so for the vast majority of the 12 years I played. I stopped playing a couple months ago, although the last two expansions have been a love hate affair. I never felt they were abusing my wallet, so I gave them tons of money.

I started ESO about 5-6 weeks ago. I am LOVING the game. Housing could use more utility. Mounts and non combat pets could have offerings in game but overall I am enjoying ESO....for now.

I am fully willing to pay for a a game, even monthly as I have done for 12 years in another game, but the crown store greed not only turns me off completely but it has always resulted in me quitting a game.

I went to school for design. So, my perspective might be a bit different than the general player. When I study crown offerings, limited time items, and their overall cost It is obvious to me the psychological component in your design or approach to offering this content. It is designed to force the players hand into expensive purchases on a relatively short timer.

Bean counters have on MANY occasions destroyed games. I see that your European servers are dying down. It cant be due to content, this game has tons of content. Europeans are often more skeptical than Americans, I have to wonder if the crown store greed is a result of you losing customers. I know that why I often quit games like this with cash shops.

Value or a "good deal" is the secret into keeping people around. If I feel like I am getting my moneys worth I will never have buyers remorse but your crown offerings are extremely expensive for digital content and I am starting to regret playing this game. My GF and I intend on getting Morrowind for Christmas, but if I keep down this path of observation on how greedy you are with crown content it will surely end in a fight with my GF who loves this game as well and has no intention of quitting.

Depending on the crown package one buys determines their value, but I average it to 1 USD per 100 crowns. So a 2500 crown horse is $25.00 USD. a 500 crown item is $5.00 USD etc.

I purchased the adept pack. THAT was a good value and completely worth the money. The Clockwork house...is a joke of a price, as are most of the homes and mounts (ESP mounts).

I would not have as much of an issue if you offered this content in game, but its only accessible through the crown store. Which is starting to feel like if I want to customize a game that is traditionally popular with role playing, I have to empty my wallet at the rate of about 75 dollars a month.


I guess my question is. Is it your intent to limit your income by charging stupid prices for digital content that are a terrible value in and of tehmselves? It would seem to me that eliminating scam crates (which of yours are the worst in regards to drop %) and offering the content you make to be accessable full time, or maybe seasona (winter, spring, summer, fall) I know your design behind this is to force the customers hand with "limited time" offerings so you get their cash fast, but is this not shortsighted due to the fact that for the other 95% of the year you are missing out on selling this stuff to new players?

Look I get it. A company needs to make a profit. But what is more important to you. Gouging your current customers until they say they have had enough and quit which results in you preying on new blood, or maintaining a healthy relationship with your customer base which grows your customer base organically because of happy clientele?

Frankly I don't know why I am posting this. I know it will fall on deaf ears. I have to imagine you are completely aware of what you are doing and that its all done by design with intent. I guess for me this is some kind of catharisis that I may reflect on for when the crown store takes its toll and I once again leave a game due to greed.

(Take note of the mistakes made by EA recently and learn from it).

Dear ser, you have said the truth. I shake your hand as friend.

WuffyCerulei

The only good thing about the crown store is that it's not pay-to-win. You don't unlock characters. You don't get special OP gear. It's almost all cosmetic. Purely vain items. The only non-cosmetic things are upgrades like the assistants, mount lessons, and race/appearance changes, but they're not cheap.

Mancombe_Nosehair

As someone who plays with numbers for a living, I find it very hard to justify some of the costs in the Crown store. Things like race and name change strike me as being outrageous in price. I will say that the banker, bought with crowns from the sale was worth every penny, or crown though, which says a lot;)
I am not into the housing, pets and clothing items in the store, although I can understand why others are.
They appear to have trouble striking a balance between price and number of sales. I would suggest that zos takes advice from their own numbers guys, as they seem to have ignored them when doing their pricing.
I would imagine that sales would increase quite substantially with lower pricing. Perhaps, as player numbers drop in future years, you might see a better pricing format to encourage people to stay.

Streega

luton0watford4 wrote: »

As someone who plays with numbers for a living, I find it very hard to justify some of the costs in the Crown store. Things like race and name change strike me as being outrageous in price. I will say that the banker, bought with crowns from the sale was worth every penny, or crown though, which says a lot;)
I am not into the housing, pets and clothing items in the store, although I can understand why others are.
They appear to have trouble striking a balance between price and number of sales. I would suggest that zos takes advice from their own numbers guys, as they seem to have ignored them when doing their pricing.
I would imagine that sales would increase quite substantially with lower pricing. Perhaps, as player numbers drop in future years, you might see a better pricing format to encourage people to stay.

Exactly. One day I counted all the things I was ready to buy but DIDN'T, after the price turned out to be so ridiculous. The amount of crowns I was prepared to spend was around 20k, for all those things (about 50% of the price from the Crown Store). This is the money ZOS didn't get from me. I'm not even counting the items from the Crown Crates - what would probably double that amount. Oh wait, I forgot the houses and the furniture - double that double. Maybe 80-100k Crowns isn't much, but I'm not the only one who thinks reducing the prices by half would double the profits for ZOS.
IMHO the biggest problem with the micro-transactions in ESO is there is nothing "micro" about them. There is so few items really worth the price...

P.S. So far I've bought 20k Crowns besides the ones I get from ESO+. Soo... 20k vs 100k more.

khele23eb17_ESO

Yes, the prices are high but Im much more annoyed with lootboxes. If I want to spend 4k on a mount, Ill spend 4k on a mount. Having RNG decide what I get for my money is a f... con. Imagine going to a store to buy a new TV and getting a 6pack of beer, a fan, a wooly hat and some toilet paper for the money.

duendology

Someone mentioned here that a house shouldn't be more expensive than the game it resides it.
I agree..
then again...I see blueprints etc. in guild stores that cost more than houses! People complain about ZOS insane prices for cosmetics...yet, I'd bet the same people put insane prices on their items in guild stores...

Mureel

I cannot stand when people blame others for their own actions. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy vanity or convenience items.

The World doesn't owe you anything. Nothing about this game is P2W. No one is 'draining your wallet' but you.

Get a spine and be responsible for yourself.

Stonyfoot

Mureel wrote: »

I cannot stand when people blame others for their own actions. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy vanity or convenience items.

The World doesn't owe you anything. Nothing about this game is P2W. No one is 'draining your wallet' but you.

Get a spine and be responsible for yourself.

Yup, a lesson in life: You can't always get what you want.

Octopuss

ZOS_KatP wrote: »

Hi all,

We have edited/removed a few comments because they violated our policies on flaming/baiting. Debating specific matters is fine, but please be sure to keep all conversation constructive, civil, and on-topic to the discussion at hand.
Thank you.

Yes, that's all ZOS has to say on the matter