Crown store greed.

LadyAstrum

Mureel wrote: »

I cannot stand when people blame others for their own actions. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy vanity or convenience items.

The World doesn't owe you anything. Nothing about this game is P2W. No one is 'draining your wallet' but you.

Get a spine and be responsible for yourself.

It's very easy to dismiss, but at what point does pricing become unpalatable? Are these prices value for money? At what point would it make you think "hey, this is getting silly now." It's not about "responsibility" as OP said (if you'd bothered to read properly) that he stops playing when it becomes too much and items don't feel like value for money. We all want value for our money, and not feel ripped off.

As one who purchased that 4k crown black elk/deer, I'm not against certain price ranges, but even I question, at what point does something become too high? Will we one day see the day when only the very wealthy can afford to buy megatransactions for games like ESO? (They're not microtransactions if they cost more than the game).

If I were to take a step further, I'd suggest the future of cash shops will hurt poor players who would like to play the game to get nice things, but won't be able to because everything will be locked behind 100k crown price tags.

And of course personal choice comes into play, but sensible people will recognise when something is trending towards not only ridiculous, but also unjustifiable. In my case, I am speaking in what-if's. There is a certain amount of psychology involved too. A degree of manipulation of the consumer. The cash to crown conversion is one such avenue. Crowns helps make a purchase more "palatable".

SisterGoat

This game is not very P2W. I could understand frustration with a game if it was P2W, but I agree that nobody is forcing you to buy cosmetics, even if they are expensive. I really did want that black elk but it was not in my price range so I just bought the pony instead. I can live without a cool elk mount.

ADarklore

I'm sorry... I feel no negativity towards ZOS for trying to make money, keep people employed, and pay their rent, utilities, etc in order to keep the game going. What I think we have here is a lack of personal responsibility and a lack of willpower to resist temptation, if you don't have the money, then don't spend it... but OP saying they leave games because they cannot personally resist temptation is not a game issue, it's a personal psychological issue.

Most companies will try to market based on psychology, trying to persuade or tempt people to buy their product... whether it be in their visual presentation, commercial (eg. As Seen on TV), etc. ZOS uses the 'limited time offer' and 'Crown Crates' to utilize this temptation... why is it wrong for ZOS to do this when it's, again, a personal responsibility issue? I realize we're changing into a world of 'nothing is ever my fault', but honestly, if you have these type of psychological weaknesses, perhaps professional counseling could help... but blaming a company for using certain tactics in order to make money is not something I agree with.

idk

Mureel wrote: »

I cannot stand when people blame others for their own actions. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy vanity or convenience items.

The World doesn't owe you anything. Nothing about this game is P2W. No one is 'draining your wallet' but you.

Get a spine and be responsible for yourself.

Fairly good point. No one is forcing anyone to purchase a thing from the crown store. However, the complaints do not surprise me.

From before this game launched on 2014 people were complaining of costs already. There weee some that balked at having to buy the game saying Zos would get know players that way. Others complained about the subscription rate even though it's in par with other major MMORPGs.

Anyhow. Have fun all.

Elsonso

Raideen wrote: »

I am fully willing to pay for a a game, even monthly as I have done for 12 years in another game, but the crown store greed not only turns me off completely but it has always resulted in me quitting a game.

Value or a "good deal" is the secret into keeping people around. If I feel like I am getting my moneys worth I will never have buyers remorse but your crown offerings are extremely expensive for digital content and I am starting to regret playing this game. My GF and I intend on getting Morrowind for Christmas, but if I keep down this path of observation on how greedy you are with crown content it will surely end in a fight with my GF who loves this game as well and has no intention of quitting.

I purchased the adept pack. THAT was a good value and completely worth the money. The Clockwork house...is a joke of a price, as are most of the homes and mounts (ESP mounts).

I would not have as much of an issue if you offered this content in game, but its only accessible through the crown store. Which is starting to feel like if I want to customize a game that is traditionally popular with role playing, I have to empty my wallet at the rate of about 75 dollars a month.

I guess my question is. Is it your intent to limit your income by charging stupid prices for digital content that are a terrible value in and of tehmselves? It would seem to me that eliminating scam crates (which of yours are the worst in regards to drop %) and offering the content you make to be accessable full time, or maybe seasona (winter, spring, summer, fall) I know your design behind this is to force the customers hand with "limited time" offerings so you get their cash fast, but is this not shortsighted due to the fact that for the other 95% of the year you are missing out on selling this stuff to new players?

Frankly I don't know why I am posting this. I know it will fall on deaf ears. I have to imagine you are completely aware of what you are doing and that its all done by design with intent. I guess for me this is some kind of catharisis that I may reflect on for when the crown store takes its toll and I once again leave a game due to greed.

A couple of things, but the most important is that, even though they hear you, they don't hear you. They are not going to change the Crown Store. As much as I would like it, they are not going to do away with Crown Crates. I think that the part of the company that does this (probably ZOS under the leadership of Bethesda) is not really in touch with the average to low end player. They probably think they are, though. Instead, they are in touch with numbers that business analytics gives them, which they enshrine on spread sheets and write fancy formulas to worship them. Most players probably don't contribute much to those numbers.

The second thing is that I think that people misunderstand their goals. I am pretty convinced that they are not going for mass purchases and maximized sales. I hear many cries in here of "too expensive", and yet, they have only marginally adjusted prices. They don't expect that everyone will buy everything, and so the prices they set are at the top end of the curve. I would imagine they meet their sales goals, or things would be different. Note that this applies to the Crown Store, not Crown Crates.

Crown Crates show all the signs of an enterprise that is not meeting business expectations. I expect that they have some "good ideas" on how to improve them that they will be sharing with us. Sort of like how Crown Crates solved that pesky industry-wide conundrum of how to re-introduce old stuff into a cash store.

• The Crown Store, especially Crown Crates, are here to stay.
• Crown Crates will be "improved" over the next 12 months.
• They are not going to change their prices so that everyone buys the stuff.
• They don't expect that everyone is going to buy Crown Store stuff
• They will be working to drive more people to buy Crown Crates

Therefore, it is OK to be picky. I certainly am. I buy stuff because I see a use. Even limited time stuff gets passed over if I cannot see a use for it. I don't buy everything. I don't buy Crown Crates (I just collect the free ones they give me, unopened). Except for the latter, I suspect ZOS is Ok with this.

Cously

The problem with cash shop is the exclusivity. Everything should be available to be earned in game even if a small % or requiring x hours of efforts. Those who wish to speed up the experience can buy it straight from the store. What a missed opportunity to make costumes, mounts and others be rewards for hard achievements, a long quest line or events, etc.

Elsonso

Cously wrote: »

The problem with cash shop is the exclusivity. Everything should be available to be earned in game even if a small % or requiring x hours of efforts. Those who wish to speed up the experience can buy it straight from the store. What a missed opportunity to make costumes, mounts and others be rewards for hard achievements, a long quest line or events, etc.

This sounds great, when people say it. Then the developers get it into their head that something that is too easy to get in the game will cut down on Crown sales. Soon after that, we end up with Mythic Ambrosia component drop rates. Getting the Cipher or Dust in the game is like winning the Powerball, but without the reward.

JWKe

I've been saying this **** ever clown crates were dropped for this game. It's good to see EA take their greedy practices to another level and revealing this cancer called loot-boxes for the world to see.

Yes, regulations stifle businesses. But, when businesses are employing gambling tactics that might inadvertently target minors for games that have a Mature 17+ ratings ( 17 yo are considered minors in most if not all states) then we have a problem.

But, don't get me wrong. I'm mostly alright with the clown crate randomized dropped system. I myself fortunately exercise strong restraint when it comes to randomized boxes so it's not an issue for me.

What would satisfy me is to either:

1. Change the game's ESRB ratings to 21+ and leave everything as it is.

or

2. Keep the ESRB 17+ M rating, but remove the randomize boxes but still keep cosmetic micro-transactions.

davey1107

I understand where a lot of @Raideen s frustrations are coming from, but we should be fair and look at it from both points of view. Originally, ZOS wanted to charge $15/month to play at all. They eventually wanted to open the game up to more players, so they designed a system where subscription is options, and for subscribing you get some nice temporary perks then a crown stipend to spend on cosmetic items. The ESO+ members are where a lot of the offers are aimed at, although for sure ZOS is happy to sell even more crowns to those willing to pay for more.

In general, I’d overall give them a B+ for fair business practices. There are a few skeezy practices, but for the most part they do really consider the players.

Pros for current practices

- crown store items purely cosmetic. Nobody is more powerful because they paid (but my senche mounts make me FEEL more powerful. And I don’t get headaches from the clopping.)
- Most items have in-game gold counterparts. You can buy mounts, houses, earn costumes and pets in the game.
- Nothing in the ZOS system requires future “rent,” ie buying a home with in-game gold costs a monthly gold fee. Some games have tried this.
- A massive amount of content is opened with the initial purchase.
- DLCs are open to try before you buy via a month subscription...which sort of refunds itself with crowns.
- Players can have a very similar experience whether they pay a lot or relatively little for the game. I have tons of guildies who come in and have a blast for months without ever spending on any cosmetics at all.

Cons

- the chapter system is relatively high-priced for the amount of content delivered.
- Crown crates are a type of micro transaction that generally alienate and annoy customer base, and frankly are a bad value for customers. And there are no controls...ZOS has several ways to cheat us with them.
- In my opinion, MTs are too flipping costly.


In my opinion, ZOS could make more money if they adjusted their practices just a bit. A good start would be to dramatically reduce the crown cost on some items...like the utilities. Allow name changes for like 100 crowns. Race change for 500. Make furnishing items 10-200 crowns instead of the ridiculously priced items there now. These are things that customers would buy more of if they felt they were getting a good value.

Then they could revamp some of the higher end items. Like consider Apex mounts. If we dug into the ZOS customer data, I’m betting we discover that an average customer who goes for an Apex mount spends $X then stops. I mean...most no one earns the storm atronach bear then keeps going for a senche, right? So why not take that price and offer customers the FULL SLATE of special mounts? If the average person spends 12,000 crowns to get an apex, just offer a package where you get all of the storm atronach mounts for that amount. If the player is going to ride around on a storm camel, who cares if their alt gets a storm wolf instead?

My point is that it’s a basic principle in economics (and if you’re ever unfortunate enough to go for a degree in it,,there will be MANY case studies of this you will be asked to mathematically proof, trust me) that companies want to raise prices, but many times they’re more profitable when they LOWER prices. When I consider the cost of a brand new game, etc, I think ZOS passes up on some serious money by overpricing. MMOs are too elastic...players will bail for minor reasons. ZOS could establish themselves as the most reasonably priced option, allowing super cheap cosmetics and utilities, amd I think they’d do better.

mirta000b16_ESO

davey1107 wrote: »

My point is that it’s a basic principle in economics (and if you’re ever unfortunate enough to go for a degree in it,,there will be MANY case studies of this you will be asked to mathematically proof, trust me) that companies want to raise prices, but many times they’re more profitable when they LOWER prices. When I consider the cost of a brand new game, etc, I think ZOS passes up on some serious money by overpricing. MMOs are too elastic...players will bail for minor reasons. ZOS could establish themselves as the most reasonably priced option, allowing super cheap cosmetics and utilities, amd I think they’d do better.

This. And I hope that they're listening.

- I would have already gotten the clockwork city house if it was 20$. Even if it required me to own the DLC in order to buy it (I would have purchased the DLC despite being on ESO plus). Good 60-80$? Not a chance will I ever spend that much on a single item in a game.
- the upcomming flaming skin in the loot-crate? Well I'm not about to gamble for it. I can't afford to gamble for it. Shame because my SO was going to purchase it for me and him up-front as we did not expect to see it in a crown crate. Another sale lost.

In fact the current crown crate system makes it so that the available costumes for purchase directly right now are fairly limited. I've won one costume off a free crown crate, but that did not make me want to gamble for more, because the chances that I would get something that I like the look off is fairly low. Honestly I think that a single crown crate should be lowered to the price of 50 crowns and every single regular item in it should be put up on sale for about 1000 crowns (except special mounts, feel free to overprice those). That way you are gambling to win something for cheaper, or you can buy the item outright up front. From current on sale costumes there was only one that I actually liked and bought. From previous crown season, there were maybe 5 costumes I would have bought up front, but alas as it was in a gambling box that costs a lot per attempt, I did not want to attempt to gamble for them.

StackonClown

lordrichter wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

I am fully willing to pay for a a game, even monthly as I have done for 12 years in another game, but the crown store greed not only turns me off completely but it has always resulted in me quitting a game.

Value or a "good deal" is the secret into keeping people around. If I feel like I am getting my moneys worth I will never have buyers remorse but your crown offerings are extremely expensive for digital content and I am starting to regret playing this game. My GF and I intend on getting Morrowind for Christmas, but if I keep down this path of observation on how greedy you are with crown content it will surely end in a fight with my GF who loves this game as well and has no intention of quitting.

I purchased the adept pack. THAT was a good value and completely worth the money. The Clockwork house...is a joke of a price, as are most of the homes and mounts (ESP mounts).

I would not have as much of an issue if you offered this content in game, but its only accessible through the crown store. Which is starting to feel like if I want to customize a game that is traditionally popular with role playing, I have to empty my wallet at the rate of about 75 dollars a month.

I guess my question is. Is it your intent to limit your income by charging stupid prices for digital content that are a terrible value in and of tehmselves? It would seem to me that eliminating scam crates (which of yours are the worst in regards to drop %) and offering the content you make to be accessable full time, or maybe seasona (winter, spring, summer, fall) I know your design behind this is to force the customers hand with "limited time" offerings so you get their cash fast, but is this not shortsighted due to the fact that for the other 95% of the year you are missing out on selling this stuff to new players?

Frankly I don't know why I am posting this. I know it will fall on deaf ears. I have to imagine you are completely aware of what you are doing and that its all done by design with intent. I guess for me this is some kind of catharisis that I may reflect on for when the crown store takes its toll and I once again leave a game due to greed.

A couple of things, but the most important is that, even though they hear you, they don't hear you. They are not going to change the Crown Store. As much as I would like it, they are not going to do away with Crown Crates. I think that the part of the company that does this (probably ZOS under the leadership of Bethesda) is not really in touch with the average to low end player. They probably think they are, though. Instead, they are in touch with numbers that business analytics gives them, which they enshrine on spread sheets and write fancy formulas to worship them. Most players probably don't contribute much to those numbers.

The second thing is that I think that people misunderstand their goals. I am pretty convinced that they are not going for mass purchases and maximized sales. I hear many cries in here of "too expensive", and yet, they have only marginally adjusted prices. They don't expect that everyone will buy everything, and so the prices they set are at the top end of the curve. I would imagine they meet their sales goals, or things would be different. Note that this applies to the Crown Store, not Crown Crates.

Crown Crates show all the signs of an enterprise that is not meeting business expectations. I expect that they have some "good ideas" on how to improve them that they will be sharing with us. Sort of like how Crown Crates solved that pesky industry-wide conundrum of how to re-introduce old stuff into a cash store.

• The Crown Store, especially Crown Crates, are here to stay.
• Crown Crates will be "improved" over the next 12 months.
• They are not going to change their prices so that everyone buys the stuff.
• They don't expect that everyone is going to buy Crown Store stuff
• They will be working to drive more people to buy Crown Crates

Therefore, it is OK to be picky. I certainly am. I buy stuff because I see a use. Even limited time stuff gets passed over if I cannot see a use for it. I don't buy everything. I don't buy Crown Crates (I just collect the free ones they give me, unopened). Except for the latter, I suspect ZOS is Ok with this.

^This - they will NEVER drop clown clates! but im done buying them.

btw - at full price 1 crown = 1 aud cent..
100 crowns = $1 AUD. When I look at the prices - say 12000 for some house, immediately $120 AUD springs to mind.
dubwa tee eff!

forget that jack!

Gaming compaines have spent way too much effort studying gambling and casino psychology - they know this is a winner!

*The HOUSE ALWAYS WINS*

- best - lol

Azurya

Raideen wrote: »

I purchased the adept pack. THAT was a good value and completely worth the money. The Clockwork house...is a joke of a price, as are most of the homes and mounts (ESP mounts).


Frankly I don't know why I am posting this. I know it will fall on deaf ears. I have to imagine you are completely aware of what you are doing and that its all done by design with intent. I guess for me this is some kind of catharisis that I may reflect on for when the crown store takes its toll and I once again leave a game due to greed.

About the CS, I don´t get the hype around it. It is really nothing there that could improve your game-experience or solve any problem you are facing. It is expensive, in most ways.
As the OP wrote sometimes there is good bargain, but that was it for me.

Buying clothes for my chars, no need...
Buying a house for crowns so can get some weird title, no need for it.
having another mount the ride, no need for it.

as a ESO+ member I go for convenience and nothing more.
The CS is something I don´t need for enjoying this game, and yeah I do enjoy it.

mainly cause I stopped grinding gear, running numerous times through dungeons and trials and do my own thing, sometimes with guildgroups and somtimes alone.

TaintedKurse

Agreed, the level of limited items and the price of these mounts has gotten out of hand. I would really like to see a shift to add some of this stuff into the actual game as unlockables. Via ultra rare final boss drops, and through vendors in different zones. Possibly, even through the achievement vendors for doing certain tasks. They could be another useful cash sink. Encourage players to unlock this stuff by playing your game. You have plenty of stuff to sell us. The free pet, and crown crates are nice but, I really would like to see more unlockables in game. Specifically mounts, personalities, and more appealing costumes.

xbobx

i have no doubt if they dropped the crown prices or the items by 2/3rds they would actually make more money than what they are priced at now.

There is a lot of stupidity in the business world especially people that make the decisions. They are out of touch with reality and seem to think pricing something higher will mean more money which in many cases is false.

they have to find the sweet spot in pricing. $25 for a mount is not the sweet spot. It should be around the $7 mark.

the new mounts in the crates should not be locked to the creates and a stack of 5 crates should be 500 crowns not 1500. Or better yet, get rid of them and just sell the new stuff for reasonable prices.

I am all for the market to get free content but there is a limit.

also, i want skins for my bear.

xbobx

One other thing. The free crates for logging in for three days. So freaking disgusting. They act like they are doing you a favour but its no different than dangling a bottle of whisky in front of an alcoholic.

Madamova

Do you realise you don't HAVE to buy anything from the Crown Store?
I have been completely ignoring Crown Store for years and still having good time in game.
When I accumulate crowns from my subscription I treat myself to something nice (like a merchant or a banker) but never spend extra money other then for a sub.

Elsonso

xbobx wrote: »

i have no doubt if they dropped the crown prices or the items by 2/3rds they would actually make more money than what they are priced at now.

There is a lot of stupidity in the business world especially people that make the decisions. They are out of touch with reality and seem to think pricing something higher will mean more money which in many cases is false.

I, for one, have never considered them to be stupid. They know what you just said. They have known it for a long long time. They can see how their pricing decisions change revenue. All we can do is guess. The prices they charge in the Crown Store are deliberate and calculated, based on actual sales data, sales goals, feedback from the forums, and whatever else they want to toss into the decision making pot.

At this point, we can assume that the prices for mounts, costumes/appearance, and pets are pretty much dialed in. They are probably going to be pretty close to meeting whatever goals they have.

xbobx wrote: »

One other thing. The free crates for logging in for three days. So freaking disgusting. They act like they are doing you a favour but its no different than dangling a bottle of whisky in front of an alcoholic.

They are doing me a favor. This is one of a very small number of ways that I can get new Crown Crates to add to my collection.

Lady_Scorp72

Pricing models are complex, so it's impossible to know how much/little ZOS depends on the Crown Store for their overall revenue. However, price increases combined with bundling decisions that don't allow people to just buy that one thing they really want, are what I think is causing a lot of the upset in the forums.

On one hand, I can't blame ZOS for charging what the market will bear, i.e., if people are willing to pay 4k for a mount, why wouldn't they charge it? Let's face it, status symbols sell big time, and lots of people love the idea of having something expensive and limited. Is there an argument that lower prices, to 2k for example, would encourage more people to buy? Yes, but then the people who are willing to pay a high premium for something elite likely wouldn't. Keeping an air of rarity and exclusivity in the Crown Store must be far more profitable than trying to keep everything available and affordable. If it wasn't, they'd change it.

On the other hand, I totally understand some of the player backlash. Retailers and service companies get publicly roasted and sometimes boycotted for raising prices arbitrarily. Consumers understand companies need to make a healthy profit, but they also expect price increases be proportionally related to increasing costs. Since it's hard to believe that it costs more to create a skin than it did say a year ago, and ZOS hasn't tried to justify their pricing model despite people complaining, it feels to many like corporate greed. I'm guessing though, that the majority of the player base doesn't care, and it just feels like a bigger issue because it's talked about often here in the forums.

TL/DR: If people will pay it, they're going to charge it. Is it greed? Probably. Will it change? Probably not, or not until complaints about it translates into lower sales.

JasonSilverSpring

It is simple economics. Supply and demand. Supply is unlimited here so it is all about demand. I am sure they have plenty of data by now. If they half the price of something they need to sell twice as many to break even. Maybe they would, maybe not.

Why is it greed to charge what people are willing to pay for something? ZOS is a for profit company, not a charity.

For the amount of time I have put into the game my initial purchase price and even ESO+ are a bargain. These cosmetic and convenience items help fund the game and keep the entry cost low.

Raideen

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm sorry... I feel no negativity towards ZOS for trying to make money, keep people employed, and pay their rent, utilities, etc in order to keep the game going.

And if you had actually read my OP you could easily see that I do not either. I believe I actually said companies need to make a healthy profit. I am a designer/artist. I am glad that there are some amazing artists employed that are actually getting paid when we live in a world where so many feel that art (for some ignorant reason or another) should be free (this is not something you are likely to understand unless you are immersed in this field). I believe I expressed that subscribing to a game is worthwhile to me as I had shown with a 12 year example in playing wow. How anyone can determine from this information that I do not feel that people need to be employed is beyond me.

What I think we have here is a lack of personal responsibility and a lack of willpower to resist temptation, if you don't have the money, then don't spend it... but OP saying they leave games because they cannot personally resist temptation is not a game issue, it's a personal psychological issue.

I think you and everyone else misunderstands, even though it was clearly pointed out in my OP. This has nothing to do with me running out of money or even will power and has everything to do with being a terrible value (again, this was pointed out), and unethical business practices.

Digital items are only good in this game. They can not be taken with you, they can not be used anywhere else, they can not be materialized in the real world. When a "microtransaction" sells more than the game itself, ON TOP of a subscription, its no longer a microtransaction. This is compounded when the game company uses psychology to abuse the unsuspecting customer. Its simply unethical. Products that are good do not need to be "sold", which is what ZOS is doing when they put a mount up for $25.00 USD for 4 days. Its designed to drive or force the customer into a purchase they might not be ready to make. You can market ethically to customers, or you can market unethically and their practices scream a lack of ethics.

People play the game for different reasons. I see a lot of ignorant commentary here saying stuff like "you don't need the CS to play the game". Excuse me? What do they mean by "playing the game" because there are different ways to play the game. Some people collect, some people role play, some people don't want to see a world filled with 4 boring mounts. Why are these groups of people penalized by insane price gouging when everyone else can play the game for nothing more than the buy in price?!?

Its actually amazing and astonishing that so many people fail to understand this when they present their ill-informed arguments. But that aside

Most companies will try to market based on psychology, trying to persuade or tempt people to buy their product... whether it be in their visual presentation, commercial (eg. As Seen on TV), etc. ZOS uses the 'limited time offer' and 'Crown Crates' to utilize this temptation... why is it wrong for ZOS to do this when it's, again, a personal responsibility issue? I realize we're changing into a world of 'nothing is ever my fault', but honestly, if you have these type of psychological weaknesses, perhaps professional counseling could help... but blaming a company for using certain tactics in order to make money is not something I agree with.

Persuasion is one thing. Limited time offers is another. Last I checked Dr. Pepper was not selling their soda for 4 days only. Same with BMW, Charmin, Snickers, or any other product in existence. Temporary price reductions are used to drive sales (like they did with morrowind this weekend), there are plenty of ways to drive sales ethically and unethically. Short duration, limited time only offers of digital content inside of a game that cost more than the purchase of the game itself on top of a monthy subscription is simply unethical (lets me honest, you can not fully play the game without a monthly sub, ESP if you do any crafting). The You keep yammering on about personal responsibility but my argument is that there is a fine line between personal responsibility and forcing the customers hand into a purchase because ZOS dangles the "YOU WILL NEVER SEE THIS AGAIN" in front of their face with a ridiculous price tag attached.

I like this game, I want to see this game have a healthy customer base and a healthy revenue. I like to play MMOs for the long haul, so yes I have some personal, selfish vested interest into this game. When I see the community dying down, people leaving the game and one of the often cited reasons is due to the insane prices of the cash shop. it makes me come to the forums to express my dissatisfaction with the cash shop prices as well, with some stories and backgrounds to hopefully get a lightbulb to go off in the developers head that you simply do not GROW your client base by RAISING PRICES (this goes double for digital content that has no existence in the world outside of this game).

Raideen

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

These cosmetic and convenience items help fund the game and keep the entry cost low.

Except for those who intend on purchasing cosmetic items because those cosmetic items can not be had in game, sub or no sub. For them the cost of the game is not so low.

Orticia

SisterGoat wrote: »

This game is not very P2W. I could understand frustration with a game if it was P2W, but I agree that nobody is forcing you to buy cosmetics, even if they are expensive. I really did want that black elk but it was not in my price range so I just bought the pony instead. I can live without a cool elk mount.

I agree it's not P2W. But a big part of fun in a game for me IS hunting for nice cosmetics, fun pointless things, little pets, dye colors, mementos, motifs, furniture and such. I don't care for top gear, top stats, raiding or even pvp much. So I guess P2W would not effect me much either. I am against P2W though. So while they might not force me to buy those cosmetics I want in the store. It does mean they are putting them behind a paywall more and more and giving out less and less through gameplay to put them in the store instead to monetize. Making the game itself have less and less goals for me and as a result less fun then it could be.

Gathering that stuff is my endgame. And buying them for real money isn't much of a game. That way of obtaining can make a thing i would really want and would be hyped about to work for in game go completely into meh nevermind category. There has to be something very special I really want for me to shell out money for and be reasonably priced (like the crow that flies to your arm memento from the last crates. I bought 2 crates as it was a reasonable well-obtainable 16 gems). And when the pricing goes over the top and I do the conversion into real money my response is way to often... really, that much?! And then just pretend the thing isn't even there. To bad value for money for me, so might as well not exist for me. I do compare it with what that money would have bought me in real life. I don't mind spending money on games at all... but I do need to feel that I got value for money. Many ESO store things definitely do not fall in that category for me. So far the DLC, base game, occasional ESO+ is a good value for money for me and so I feel no buyers remorse at all for that.

The conversion before buying is something I always do if the currency can ONLY be gotten for real money. As real money replacing currency tends to disconnect you from the actual amount of money you are spending. An actual huge reason it even exists, it makes people spend more/easier, also why people paying with plastic and pin-cards spend easier then if they had to do it in cash. Also why the amounts you buy often are, just short, or just a bit to much... so you are left with leftovers that you feel are going to waste, so you buy something you didn't really want or buy more to do get something you want but otherwise would not have gotten.

JasonSilverSpring

Raideen wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

These cosmetic and convenience items help fund the game and keep the entry cost low.

Except for those who intend on purchasing cosmetic items because those cosmetic items can not be had in game, sub or no sub. For them the cost of the game is not so low.

Note I said the entry cost is low. Get in cheap and then you see the shiny things you want to buy.

Raideen

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

These cosmetic and convenience items help fund the game and keep the entry cost low.

Except for those who intend on purchasing cosmetic items because those cosmetic items can not be had in game, sub or no sub. For them the cost of the game is not so low.

Note I said the entry cost is low. Get in cheap and then you see the shiny things you want to buy.

I would argue (based on industry standards and pricing) that the initial purchase and the monthly sub are not low and in fact are on par with the average price for a game purchase, and lets be honest here. To take full advantage of what the game offers, one must sub. Crafting alone demands a player sub. I have no issues with subbing at all, in fact I prefer it. I don't consider the initial purchase and subscription to be cheap, or cheap enough to gate content behind a cash shop.

PunkAben

I thinks thecrown store is cool.
You can't buy anything who affect the game so you can buy you self to a better charater !
It is for outfit, house, mount, pet and so.
If people like the game and like the stuff the support the game or else the dont buy.
I look forward for a elf christmas outfit, it will be the next i buy from crown store, so i hope we will have the outfit this years else it will take some time before i buy from crown store.

Floppyjo

One thing that really is pointless ... why bother buying DLC outright, when its attached to a sub and the crafting bag is only a sub item. I'd rather pay the sub to get ALL the DLC and the crafting bag. Ever try to play this game without the crafting bag? it's an organizational nightmare!

Trying to get people to buy DLC seperately is just greedy cheek ... and I really don't care if you don't see it that way either. It is what it is.

Beardimus

Another one of 'these' threads. Horror that a Company wants to make money.

The bottom line is that everything in the Crown store is priced considering a 50% discount. When you realise that, you understand that prices are not that bad.

ZOS has around 4 Crown sales a year, around 50% off. And those that are both frugal and patient stockpile Crowns in that time. The most frugal then wait for items to also go on sale for a double dip.

ZOS makes a premium from the Impatient, and that's great. As it supports the game financially for the more frugal of us who spend very little. This also applies to the Crown Crates.

Lastly, the key thing is there's nothing in the Crown store you actually NEED. It's stuff you want.

No one I know is leaving the game due to the Crown store, on the lost of reasons people leave it doesn't factor.

Elsonso

Beardimus wrote: »

Another one of 'these' threads.

You could have simply not replied. The thread has not been touched since Nov 26. That's over a week. It was safely asleep, almost ready to be carried out with the rest of the dead.

But, since you didn't...

Beardimus wrote: »

Lastly, the key thing is there's nothing in the Crown store you actually NEED. It's stuff you want.
No one I know is leaving the game due to the Crown store, on the lost of reasons people leave it doesn't factor.

I am sure that there were some people who left the game due to the Crown Store. I am sure that there are some people who have not picked up the game because they prefer subscription games over a B2P/F2P game. The B2P/F2P games have sort of a sullied reputation with some people, which ESO cannot avoid sharing.

I would not be here today if ESO had started as a B2P/F2P game with a cash shop. The monthly subscription at launch was a major reason why I am here. That is how I know the above statements are not false. I am really not interested in a cash shop game that utilizes the latest in behavioral sciences to separate the sheep from the wool. This is what Bethesda seems to be interested in, and I am souring considerably on the titles that they release.

The momentum from the old ESO is still there, and my ESO Plus renews this week, so I will be around for another 6 months. When I leave ESO, it will most likely be due to the cash shop and the effect that it has had on the game. The term "crown store greed" is as good as any to describe that.

Edit: I will try to remember to let you know when I leave, so you know someone. If you are still around. I tend to outlive people here on the forum.

Hokiewa

ajdawson18ub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_KatP wrote: »

Hi all,

We have edited/removed a few comments because they violated our policies on flaming/baiting. Debating specific matters is fine, but please be sure to keep all conversation constructive, civil, and on-topic to the discussion at hand.

Thank you.

I interpret this to be a threat aimed to silence and disarm into cooperative submission. Paying customers have a right to voice dissatisfaction. There is no rational defense of implementing a PREDATORY GAMBLING system into a community of people who play games for hours on end, clearly displaying addictive behavior. This is very concerning and upsetting.

You interpret incorrectly.

Pops_ND_Irish

Gambling ??

Crown store is only a problem to some people, if they buy !

Don't buy, problem solved.