I need a refund on mats...

SquareSausage

Entirely ZoS fault, ignore the guys here blaming you OP, they are obv just idiots and/or fanboys. Dont get why so many people are quick to put down their fellow gamer and take the side of 'the man', when 'the man' clearly has been lazy and not updated tooltips.

The game misled you with inadequate information.

Merlin13KAGL

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

#SnipIt.

You can keep your opinions...or maybe go look through your own threads when something affected you and then get back to me...

• Thinks about the bonfire made with 6+ full sets of BSW, quite recently.
• Tries to recall if thread was made crying about it or simply accepted it as a fact of the game...

I was actually trying to be somewhat courteous in my explanation. Let me be a bit more direct.

1. You made the mistake of checking the wrong source of information before proceeding.
2. Nothing in this game is guaranteed to remain static;unchanging.
3. They owe you nothing. They never have, and they never will.

SquareSausage

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

#SnipIt.

You can keep your opinions...or maybe go look through your own threads when something affected you and then get back to me...

• Thinks about the bonfire made with 6+ full sets of BSW, quite recently.
• Tries to recall if thread was made crying about it or simply accepted it as a fact of the game...

I was actually trying to be somewhat courteous in my explanation. Let me be a bit more direct.

1. You made the mistake of checking the wrong source of information before proceeding.
2. Nothing in this game is guaranteed to remain static;unchanging.
3. They owe you nothing. They never have, and they never will.

You are full of it, the only information any gamer should have to read is the information laid before them on screen.

Its ridiculous to suggest someone should have to trawl few patch notes to find an update for an item set that the item set itself doesn't state is the case. I know the set was just recently changed there, but the same holds for any set were ZoS have not updated their descriptions.

Drummerx04

There are actually quite a few sets that work in similar partially hidden ways, so you ALWAYS try the set out before dropping gold mats to upgrade it.

Two examples that come to mind are combat physician and gossamer. Both sets simply say they activate their effects "when you heal a target," which to me means, "when you cast a healing spell on a target or a hot ticks on them." However, the triggering condition is actually, "when you heal a target currently below 100% health"

Bottom line though, CA still works but isn't for stealth ganking any more.

Merlin13KAGL

SquareSausage wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

#SnipIt.

You can keep your opinions...or maybe go look through your own threads when something affected you and then get back to me...

• Thinks about the bonfire made with 6+ full sets of BSW, quite recently.
• Tries to recall if thread was made crying about it or simply accepted it as a fact of the game...

I was actually trying to be somewhat courteous in my explanation. Let me be a bit more direct.

1. You made the mistake of checking the wrong source of information before proceeding.
2. Nothing in this game is guaranteed to remain static;unchanging.
3. They owe you nothing. They never have, and they never will.

You are full of it, the only information any gamer should have to read is the information laid before them on screen.

Its ridiculous to suggest someone should have to trawl few patch notes to find an update for an item set that the item set itself doesn't state is the case. I know the set was just recently changed there, but the same holds for any set were ZoS have not updated their descriptions.

No, it's ridiculous to expect a bug free game that never requires updates, even on things as simple as tooltips.

Feel free to link video of the set not doing exactly what it states while in combat. I'll wait.

If you wish to be informed about things that affect you in the game, then feel free to be informed about things that affect you in the game. Goes for sets, skills, classes...pretty much everything out there.

Nestor

I never improve Gear to Gold until I have tested it and make sure it works like I expect it to or want it to.

Feanor

Nestor wrote: »

I never improve Gear to Gold until I have tested it and make sure it works like I expect it to or want it to.

I never gold gear other than weapons. The difference is minuscule. Weapons and glyphs, these are the things where golding out absolutely makes sense.

IcyDeadPeople

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.



.

Eddyble

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

...you didn't change the description on clever alchemist, it does not work as described.

Agree. One should not be expected to do research outside of the game to play the game as described. it's like turning on the game and the tutorial saying "A" is to jump...then after an update its been changed to "B" but for those now starting, the tutorial was never changed. the instruction manual was never changed. If there was a change, supporting documentation IN GAME should accompany it. That being said, we do know this is ESO, where nothing works the way it's supposed to...

pieratsos

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.



.

Speak for urself. Many people use it mid-combat and they clearly stated that this is the way they want the set to be used.

Merlin13KAGL

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.

They wanted it to perform in an intuitive fashion. Intuitively, there is little purpose behind increasing your SD/WD if not in combat. The pre-use from stealth was the broken aspect. It's why it got changed - was never the original intent.

Eddyble wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

...you didn't change the description on clever alchemist, it does not work as described.

Agree. One should not be expected to do research outside of the game to play the game as described. it's like turning on the game and the tutorial saying "A" is to jump...then after an update its been changed to "B" but for those now starting, the tutorial was never changed. the instruction manual was never changed. If there was a change, supporting documentation IN GAME should accompany it. That being said, we do know this is ESO, where nothing works the way it's supposed to...

Sometimes manuals even have typos - sometimes those things are noted elsewhere (i.e. patch notes)

Should the tooltip specify? Yes. That part is a bug. /bug or /feedback the necessary 'manual revision' and all is well.

In the meantime, feel free to use "B" to jump and the game will operate just fine.

The notes are there to show you what changes and also usually lists known issues. If you're informed enough to choose a set, you can be informed enough to know what has been common knowledge for some time now.

It's not as if it's been some hidden, unknown bug or set function. As has been stated several times, should you have any doubt as to a sets true function, there is ample opportunity to test it or inquire a number of different places.

After it's been made Legendary, is not that time.

EDIT: Had they stealth nerfed/changed it without documenting it anywhere, then you'd have cause to complain. Such is not the case.

IcyDeadPeople

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.



.

Speak for urself. Many people use it mid-combat and they clearly stated that this is the way they want the set to be used.

If they didn't want people ganking with Clever they should have changed it two years ago.

At any rate, ganking has been a fun way to play this game ever since beta, with glass cannon builds that sacrifice survivability and sustain for high burst damage. Never been particularly easy considering all the people with shields or heavy armor, and if you've committed to squishy gank build, if you don't manage to kill somebody right away, you either have to try to escape or die.

Now there are some serious hurdles to this gameplay that many people love after heavy attack nerf, stealth crit nerf, lots of people using miat's add on and finally the clever alchemist nerf.

badmojo

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.



.

Speak for urself. Many people use it mid-combat and they clearly stated that this is the way they want the set to be used.

If they didn't want people ganking with Clever they should have changed it two years ago.

If you think no changes should be made to this game.... you're gonna have a bad time.

KingMagaw

Another lack of quality on ZOS part,


Your due a refund and will get one, submit a ticket, hopefully you dont get CHET lol

IcyDeadPeople

badmojo wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.



.

Speak for urself. Many people use it mid-combat and they clearly stated that this is the way they want the set to be used.

If they didn't want people ganking with Clever they should have changed it two years ago.

If you think no changes should be made to this game.... you're gonna have a bad time.

I'm glad for a lot of changes to this game over the years. But the reason for this change is not because of ganking. It's because people were using add on to switch sets after proccing. To claim it is to prevent ganking doesn't quite make sense as people began ganking with this set 2 years ago.

Perhaps it would be better to prevent changing equipment via add on, or cause drinking a potion to start combat.

Huyen

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Wait...you want a refund because they didnt change the description in-game while you did read the patch-notes? Good luck with that seeing you are aware of the changes.

You assume to much...

To elaborate: you could have read the patch-notes when the patch was released like all of us do. And besides that the discussion was ongoing for several days before on the forums about the change, so dont complain afterwards for making a poor choice. We all make them, and we all have to deal with it.

Katahdin

Can't blame ZoS for outdated info on a 3rd party website they have no control over.

If they didn't update the description, you probably have a point but I doubt you'll see any thing back from it.

Wreuntzylla

Knootewoot wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Also, seriously research the sets you're going to use before upgrading them to gold. I'd honestly recommend starting with purple in most cases, and only upgrading after you've committed to that build. The price hike for that last bit should be enough to make you pause.

LOL, how are you going to put the onus on ME...I did research it...







...its only AFTER something is BROKEN or CHANGED that you search with those terms.

So, PLEASE, enlighten me on how this is CLEARLY my fault now that I've SHOWN my work...

It's not your fault. Those websites didn't update yet after the "nerf". But the craftet set still shows the old information "when you drink .....".
@Zos should have updated it after the change with something like: "When in combat when you drink......".

Yes, it was in the patch notes, but all players who did not read them fully (it could be players who just joined the game like yesterday) and read the sets description will read: "when you drink ....", and not "When in combat when you drink......".

So ticket it and I hope you get a refund.

There are a couple of websites that are comprehensive and yet woefully out of date. I have no idea why ZoS permits them to exist. ESOHEAD is a good example.

Wreuntzylla

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.



.

Speak for urself. Many people use it mid-combat and they clearly stated that this is the way they want the set to be used.

If they didn't want people ganking with Clever they should have changed it two years ago.

If you think no changes should be made to this game.... you're gonna have a bad time.

I'm glad for a lot of changes to this game over the years. But the reason for this change is not because of ganking. It's because people were using add on to switch sets after proccing. To claim it is to prevent ganking doesn't quite make sense as people began ganking with this set 2 years ago.

Perhaps it would be better to prevent changing equipment via add on, or cause drinking a potion to start combat.

Or simply drop the effect if the gear is removed? Seems like that would take less computational overhead than checking each time you drink a potion to see whether in-combat or not.

badmojo

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.



.

Speak for urself. Many people use it mid-combat and they clearly stated that this is the way they want the set to be used.

If they didn't want people ganking with Clever they should have changed it two years ago.

If you think no changes should be made to this game.... you're gonna have a bad time.

I'm glad for a lot of changes to this game over the years. But the reason for this change is not because of ganking. It's because people were using add on to switch sets after proccing. To claim it is to prevent ganking doesn't quite make sense as people began ganking with this set 2 years ago.

Perhaps it would be better to prevent changing equipment via add on, or cause drinking a potion to start combat.

From the patch notes...

This solves the issue where some players would activate their potion with this item set, then completely switch their gear to a new item set while retaining the bonus. We want this item set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat, rather than it only being used to one-shot players from stealth.

They specifically mention not wanting it to be a ganking set. The fact that you could switch sets and keep the buff was just making the ganking problem even worse.

IcyDeadPeople

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.



.

Speak for urself. Many people use it mid-combat and they clearly stated that this is the way they want the set to be used.

If they didn't want people ganking with Clever they should have changed it two years ago.

If you think no changes should be made to this game.... you're gonna have a bad time.

I'm glad for a lot of changes to this game over the years. But the reason for this change is not because of ganking. It's because people were using add on to switch sets after proccing. To claim it is to prevent ganking doesn't quite make sense as people began ganking with this set 2 years ago.

Perhaps it would be better to prevent changing equipment via add on, or cause drinking a potion to start combat.

Or simply drop the effect if the gear is removed? Seems like that would take less computational overhead than checking each time you drink a potion to see whether in-combat or not.

I imagine the reason they didn't do this is because there are many sets with effect that applies when you proc on back bar (for example, dual wield or s&b), then switch to front bar bow, 2hander, fire staff etc.

badmojo wrote: »

From the patch notes...

This solves the issue where some players would activate their potion with this item set, then completely switch their gear to a new item set while retaining the bonus. We want this item set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat, rather than it only being used to one-shot players from stealth.

They specifically mention not wanting it to be a ganking set. The fact that you could switch sets and keep the buff was just making the ganking problem even worse.

Yes, we know the patch notes, I thought that's what we were discussing above. This change is about preventing people exploiting with add on to change sets. It doesn't make sense to claim this is to suddenly prevent ganking, since people have been ganking with Clever Alchemist (the BiS set for ganking) since it was introduced 2 years ago.

Not to mention people still gank very easily if they are magicka NB (go invis again), or drink invis pot, or join those horrible big gank groups hiding somewhere, because group member can put you into combat without breaking stealth. And people will continue to gank with other sets. Devs are not going to stop people from ganking simply by changing clever alchemist. All it does is penalize solo players and stam NB.

Qbiken

To be fair, ZOS should consider changing the description of the set.

Acrolas

Unless stated otherwise, combat proc effects should only occur in combat. That's the guideline we should be operating on. Just like we don't need it spelled out dozens of times that proc sets don't crit.

And you can't show me a screenshot with gold Hunding's gear and tell me you weren't trying to max-min your gank damage. You can't wear two crafted sets. You're the reason the change was made and complaining about it only justifies the change.

But I'm certain you'll still go with the 'incomplete text' argument with customer service, rather than the 'ZOS nerfed my creepy stalker back alley play style' one.

IcyDeadPeople

Acrolas wrote: »

And you can't show me a screenshot with gold Hunding's gear and tell me you weren't trying to max-min your gank damage. You can't wear two crafted sets. You're the reason the change was made and complaining about it only justifies the change.

Yes, you can wear two crafted sets plus monster helm or 3 x agility/willpower for example, and you still can do it just fine even after this change. Clever Alchemist back bar with dual wield or S&B, drink potion, switch to front bar with Hunding's Rage.

Acrolas wrote: »

You're the reason the change was made and complaining about it only justifies the change.

The reason for the change was not to prevent people wearing two crafted sets on back bar and front bar. It was to prevent people using add on to switch to completely different gear.

badmojo

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.



.

Speak for urself. Many people use it mid-combat and they clearly stated that this is the way they want the set to be used.

If they didn't want people ganking with Clever they should have changed it two years ago.

If you think no changes should be made to this game.... you're gonna have a bad time.

I'm glad for a lot of changes to this game over the years. But the reason for this change is not because of ganking. It's because people were using add on to switch sets after proccing. To claim it is to prevent ganking doesn't quite make sense as people began ganking with this set 2 years ago.

Perhaps it would be better to prevent changing equipment via add on, or cause drinking a potion to start combat.

Or simply drop the effect if the gear is removed? Seems like that would take less computational overhead than checking each time you drink a potion to see whether in-combat or not.

I imagine the reason they didn't do this is because there are many sets with effect that applies when you proc on back bar (for example, dual wield or s&b), then switch to front bar bow, 2hander, fire staff etc.

badmojo wrote: »

From the patch notes...

This solves the issue where some players would activate their potion with this item set, then completely switch their gear to a new item set while retaining the bonus. We want this item set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat, rather than it only being used to one-shot players from stealth.

They specifically mention not wanting it to be a ganking set. The fact that you could switch sets and keep the buff was just making the ganking problem even worse.

Yes, we know the patch notes, I thought that's what we were discussing above. This change is about preventing people exploiting with add on to change sets. It doesn't make sense to claim this is to suddenly prevent ganking, since people have been ganking with Clever Alchemist (the BiS set for ganking) since it was introduced 2 years ago.

Not to mention people still gank very easily if they are magicka NB (go invis again), or drink invis pot, or join those horrible big gank groups hiding somewhere, because group member can put you into combat without breaking stealth. And people will continue to gank with other sets. Devs are not going to stop people from ganking simply by changing clever alchemist. All it does is penalize solo players and stam builds.

Who said they wanted to stop people from ganking? A set was only being used in a way they did not want or intend, so they changed it.

You said it has nothing to do with ganking, the patch notes specifically mention killing players from stealth was the only way this set was being used. They wanted this set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat, so they changed it.

I'm not defending this change or supporting ZOS's wishes for the set. You were saying things I did not believe to be true, or at least not the whole truth, so I spoke up.

IcyDeadPeople

badmojo wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I wish they would revert this change - the set from the beginning has been for ganking and now it is a bit silly, have to hit somebody first, then go back into stealth to proc clever.

Instead of solo players now it favors those people who gank in big groups, because someone else can put you into combat without breaking your stealth.



.

Speak for urself. Many people use it mid-combat and they clearly stated that this is the way they want the set to be used.

If they didn't want people ganking with Clever they should have changed it two years ago.

If you think no changes should be made to this game.... you're gonna have a bad time.

I'm glad for a lot of changes to this game over the years. But the reason for this change is not because of ganking. It's because people were using add on to switch sets after proccing. To claim it is to prevent ganking doesn't quite make sense as people began ganking with this set 2 years ago.

Perhaps it would be better to prevent changing equipment via add on, or cause drinking a potion to start combat.

Or simply drop the effect if the gear is removed? Seems like that would take less computational overhead than checking each time you drink a potion to see whether in-combat or not.

I imagine the reason they didn't do this is because there are many sets with effect that applies when you proc on back bar (for example, dual wield or s&b), then switch to front bar bow, 2hander, fire staff etc.

badmojo wrote: »

From the patch notes...

This solves the issue where some players would activate their potion with this item set, then completely switch their gear to a new item set while retaining the bonus. We want this item set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat, rather than it only being used to one-shot players from stealth.

They specifically mention not wanting it to be a ganking set. The fact that you could switch sets and keep the buff was just making the ganking problem even worse.

Yes, we know the patch notes, I thought that's what we were discussing above. This change is about preventing people exploiting with add on to change sets. It doesn't make sense to claim this is to suddenly prevent ganking, since people have been ganking with Clever Alchemist (the BiS set for ganking) since it was introduced 2 years ago.

Not to mention people still gank very easily if they are magicka NB (go invis again), or drink invis pot, or join those horrible big gank groups hiding somewhere, because group member can put you into combat without breaking stealth. And people will continue to gank with other sets. Devs are not going to stop people from ganking simply by changing clever alchemist. All it does is penalize solo players and stam builds.

Who said they wanted to stop people from ganking? A set was only being used in a way they did not want or intend, so they changed it.

You said it has nothing to do with ganking, the patch notes specifically mention killing players from stealth was the only way this set was being used. They wanted this set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat, so they changed it.

I'm not defending this change or supporting ZOS's wishes for the set. You were saying things I did not believe to be true, or at least not the whole truth, so I spoke up.

It was already BiS for ganking since nearly two years ago. And the change doesn't even stop ganking with this set. Magicka NB just goes invisible again, or hide while group member starts combat, or drink invis pot and you are doing exactly the same thing, ganking from stealth. Only makes it harder for solo players or specific gank builds that use weapon power pots.

The reason for this change was not to stop gankers. It was to stop people getting Clever Alchemist buff then using add on to swap gear.

THWIP71

LOL at improving your gear before testing it.

T4T2FR34K

You know what...I don't have the energy to argue with the willfully ignorant self righteous worms of the world...enjoy your perspective, it wont last for ever.

Acrolas

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Yes, you can wear two crafted sets plus monster helm or 3 x agility/willpower for example, and you still can do it just fine even after this change. Clever Alchemist back bar with dual wield or S&B, drink potion, switch to front bar with Hunding's Rage.

Two crafted sets and a monster helm would be 11 slots. You only have 9 possible crafted gear slots so you can only do 5x of one crafted set and 4x of another. OP is using 2-handed weapons so he only has 8 crafted gear slots. The point is you can't wear Alchemist and Hunding's simultaneously.

The reason for the change was not to prevent people wearing two crafted sets on back bar and front bar. It was to prevent people using add on to switch to completely different gear.

Right. He's intending to switch from an active Alchemist (weapon damage) to an active Hunding's and Night Mother combo (more weapon damage plus crit armor reduction), as indicated by the yellow gear macro commands on the bottom of his screen shot. It's all right there in the picture.

So it's not really a 'wasted mats' issue. It's a 'give back mats so I can go find another set to abuse to the point where it's ruined for everybody' issue. Which is why I have no sympathy.

T4T2FR34K

Wow...the paranoid conspiracy theorist is supposed to be me...I wear hundings and sword-singer...I WAS going to wear CA/SS...when I'm riding around or sneaking around I wear nights mother/terror and cyrodiils ward and yes...im using an add on...if you think I'm cheating then go back to every post defending Miats and change it...

I've never even considered wearing CA on one bar and hundings on another (I don't think that would work in combat...would it?) but noble attempt to throw this back on me except for where it lies...