Thanks ZoS for banning the cheaters...

jlboozer

Title. Thanks for banning the cheaters, it really made my day. Maybe this will be a deterrent for the next scrub trying to cheat their way to greatness. I have no sympathy for them...and if you cheated and got banned then all I have to say is...haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha lol!

coop500

I agree, but now the flood of whiners will come and turn this into a another 'Exploit ban was too harsh' 4.0

TequilaFire

Yes, but don't we have enough of these threads?

jlboozer

TequilaFire wrote: »

Yes, but don't we have enough of these threads?

I wouldn't know, I personally just found out about it...

coop500

There's now 4 with this one OP, just letting ya know

jlboozer

coop500 wrote: »

There's now 4 with this one OP, just letting ya know

Good, it should be screamed from the top of a mountain....it's such a wonderful occasion. They went from wearing their sweet new ill gotten skin to Ban Hammer recipient. ZoS deserves some props for this!

Cadbury

Wow. I leave for the weekend and miss some drama

coop500

jlboozer wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

There's now 4 with this one OP, just letting ya know

Good, it should be screamed from the top of a mountain....it's such a wonderful occasion. They went from wearing their sweet new ill gotten skin to Ban Hammer recipient. ZoS deserves some props for this!

I know and normally I'd agree, but I have seen wayyyy too many people defending them and saying ZOS was being too harsh. People don't want to not praise ZOS for this, they're just tired of the people defending the cheaters.

Buffler

They'll be back next week, skin and all

Alexandrious

jlboozer wrote: »

Title. Thanks for banning the cheaters, it really made my day. Maybe this will be a deterrent for the next scrub trying to cheat their way to greatness. I have no sympathy for them...and if you cheated and got banned then all I have to say is...haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha lol!

Meanwhile in cyrodiil........

Kek

Apache_Kid

I just don't understand why this issue was reacted to immediately with such harsh punishment, meanwhile, Every 30 days a new Empreror comes in for each alliance in Vivec and they all work with other alliances to boost to #1 and not a peep.

I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)

These cheaters actually affect my gameplay unlike those who just got a harsh permanent ban. Why can't we get some consistency?

Edited for typo

Voxicity

Apache_Kid wrote: »

I just don't understand why this issue was reacted to immediately with such harsh punishment, meanwhile, Every 30 days a new Empreror comes in for each alliance in Vivec and they all work with other alliances to boost to #1 and not a peep.

I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)

These cheaters actually affect my gameplay unlike those who just got a harsh permanent ban. Why can't we get some consistency?

Edited for typo

This

altemriel

jlboozer wrote: »

Title. Thanks for banning the cheaters, it really made my day. Maybe this will be a deterrent for the next scrub trying to cheat their way to greatness. I have no sympathy for them...and if you cheated and got banned then all I have to say is...haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha lol!

yes!!

Samadhi

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

makreth

So....what about the PVP exploit with the transmutation crystals? I'm sure if it was intented people wouldn't have to switch to alts but rather open containers with the same toon. That is also a bannable action.

Apache_Kid

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Shadow-Fighter

Gina's Banhammer

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This has been "B" taken "A" care "N" of.

Malic

Lets see if this parlays into consistent application.

Its one thing to ban a group of people and make a big show of it, its another thing entirely to investigate reports of cheating, take the time to verify and ban people consistently. Cheaters should be banned, IMHO but all of them.

ZOS has a bad habit of selective application of punishment and forgiveness.

Samadhi

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
the nature of botting is such that server-side records of it are difficult to distinguish -- server-side records show a characters location in space, timing of button presses, etc.
unfortunately, due to the nature of internet latency specifically timed button presses performed by a computer do not show up with the same predetermined rhythm when viewed in logs
GMs typically have the capacity to appear invisible to all players, so you would be unable to tell if they spend several days monitoring the bots you report before banning them
while the likelihood of continually employing GMs to camp places and try to discern whether or not people are bots is low
(spent a few years doing mod work for a f2p company; had to communicate frequently with GMs and the Community Manager and admins,
they were generous in terms of answering questions for me, but it could have all been lies )

have personally been accused of botting in ESO while grinding at keyboard -- idiot player following me around pestering me
then started Zone chatting about how I was clearly a bot because I was grinding the same route (was doing so due to respawn rate)
and not responding to his or her messages (was not doing so because he or she was annoying and there is no obligation to respond)
at that point, blocked the player and sent in a ticket about harassment, including reference that steps had already been taken to block the player but he or she was attempting to publicly disparage me in Zone

do not know if he or she was punished for harassment,
but personally never had any action or warning against my account for botting

Cadbury

Malic wrote: »

Lets see if this parlays into consistent application.

Its one thing to ban a group of people and make a big show of it, its another thing entirely to investigate reports of cheating, take the time to verify and ban people consistently. Cheaters should be banned, IMHO but all of them.

ZOS has a bad habit of selective application of punishment and forgiveness.

If this opens the floodgates for them to make a stand and stick to it, then more power to them.

Malic

Cadbury wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Lets see if this parlays into consistent application.

Its one thing to ban a group of people and make a big show of it, its another thing entirely to investigate reports of cheating, take the time to verify and ban people consistently. Cheaters should be banned, IMHO but all of them.

ZOS has a bad habit of selective application of punishment and forgiveness.

If this opens the floodgates for them to make a stand and stick to it, then more power to them.

agreed

Apache_Kid

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
the nature of botting is such that server-side records of it are difficult to distinguish -- server-side records show a characters location in space, timing of button presses, etc.
unfortunately, due to the nature of internet latency specifically timed button presses performed by a computer do not show up with the same predetermined rhythm when viewed in logs
GMs typically have the capacity to appear invisible to all players, so you would be unable to tell if they spend several days monitoring the bots you report before banning them
while the likelihood of continually employing GMs to camp places and try to discern whether or not people are bots is low
(spent a few years doing mod work for a f2p company; had to communicate frequently with GMs and the Community Manager and admins,
they were generous in terms of answering questions for me, but it could have all been lies )

have personally been accused of botting in ESO while grinding at keyboard -- idiot player following me around pestering me
then started Zone chatting about how I was clearly a bot because I was grinding the same route (was doing so due to respawn rate)
and not responding to his or her messages (was not doing so because he or she was annoying and there is no obligation to respond)
at that point, blocked the player and sent in a ticket about harassment, including reference that steps had already been taken to block the player but he or she was attempting to publicly disparage me in Zone

do not know if he or she was punished for harassment,
but personally never had any action or warning against my account for botting

I think I know how to differentiate between bots and other players in this game.... multiple characters standing in the same area, all with inferno staff, all under level 20 in beginners rags, all doing ONLY fully charged heavy attacks with each one pointing at a different enemy spawn, all with the same pet out. If it takes me 10 seconds to spot a group of bots it would take a GM the same amount of time, invisible or not.

Samadhi

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
...

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
the nature of botting is such that server-side records of it are difficult to distinguish -- server-side records show a characters location in space, timing of button presses, etc.
unfortunately, due to the nature of internet latency specifically timed button presses performed by a computer do not show up with the same predetermined rhythm when viewed in logs
GMs typically have the capacity to appear invisible to all players, so you would be unable to tell if they spend several days monitoring the bots you report before banning them
while the likelihood of continually employing GMs to camp places and try to discern whether or not people are bots is low
(spent a few years doing mod work for a f2p company; had to communicate frequently with GMs and the Community Manager and admins,
they were generous in terms of answering questions for me, but it could have all been lies )

have personally been accused of botting in ESO while grinding at keyboard -- idiot player following me around pestering me
then started Zone chatting about how I was clearly a bot because I was grinding the same route (was doing so due to respawn rate)
and not responding to his or her messages (was not doing so because he or she was annoying and there is no obligation to respond)
at that point, blocked the player and sent in a ticket about harassment, including reference that steps had already been taken to block the player but he or she was attempting to publicly disparage me in Zone

do not know if he or she was punished for harassment,
but personally never had any action or warning against my account for botting

I think I know how to differentiate between bots and other players in this game.... multiple characters standing in the same area, all with inferno staff, all under level 20 in beginners rags, all doing ONLY fully charged heavy attacks with each one pointing at a different enemy spawn, all with the same pet out. If it takes me 10 seconds to spot a group of bots it would take a GM the same amount of time, invisible or not.

Thanks for taking the time to read my reply
however, already predicted and responded to this point
ZOS, as a company, typically has to check and verify the truth of the matter before enacting a ban

if ZOS took 10 seconds to assess and assign bans in every scenario, would have to seriously question the legitimacy of bans

Kozato

I haven't heard anything about this. Can someone link me to someething where ZoS said they banned this apparent bunch of people? Just curious to see.

Apache_Kid

Samadhi wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
...

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
the nature of botting is such that server-side records of it are difficult to distinguish -- server-side records show a characters location in space, timing of button presses, etc.
unfortunately, due to the nature of internet latency specifically timed button presses performed by a computer do not show up with the same predetermined rhythm when viewed in logs
GMs typically have the capacity to appear invisible to all players, so you would be unable to tell if they spend several days monitoring the bots you report before banning them
while the likelihood of continually employing GMs to camp places and try to discern whether or not people are bots is low
(spent a few years doing mod work for a f2p company; had to communicate frequently with GMs and the Community Manager and admins,
they were generous in terms of answering questions for me, but it could have all been lies )

have personally been accused of botting in ESO while grinding at keyboard -- idiot player following me around pestering me
then started Zone chatting about how I was clearly a bot because I was grinding the same route (was doing so due to respawn rate)
and not responding to his or her messages (was not doing so because he or she was annoying and there is no obligation to respond)
at that point, blocked the player and sent in a ticket about harassment, including reference that steps had already been taken to block the player but he or she was attempting to publicly disparage me in Zone

do not know if he or she was punished for harassment,
but personally never had any action or warning against my account for botting

I think I know how to differentiate between bots and other players in this game.... multiple characters standing in the same area, all with inferno staff, all under level 20 in beginners rags, all doing ONLY fully charged heavy attacks with each one pointing at a different enemy spawn, all with the same pet out. If it takes me 10 seconds to spot a group of bots it would take a GM the same amount of time, invisible or not.

Thanks for taking the time to read my reply
however, already predicted and responded to this point
ZOS, as a company, typically has to check and verify the truth of the matter before enacting a ban

if ZOS took 10 seconds to assess and assign bans in every scenario, would have to seriously question the legitimacy of bans

Ok so what does Zos do when they come up and see the exact scenario I described? Conduct tests? Take samples for research? There is nothing you can do other than showing up and assessing the situation. If you're trying to say that it's not easy to tell the difference between a group of players farming hide scraps and a group of bots doing it then you are dead wrong. I know you said you had a player accuse you of being a bot once before but they were either trolling you or a total ***. It's ridiculously easy to tell the difference. Doesn't take a genius and it doesn't take more than a minute of observation.

Rohamad_Ali

We need consistency from now on . ZOS would be wise to just enforce a zero tolerance policy for everything involving cheating . No more slaps on the wrist for cheat engine users and a permaban for glitching NPCs . Make it all equal and discourage all dishonest players from trying to cheat . Don't call them clever kids or encourage that behavior anymore . It just sends mixed messages to the community . If you're going to permaban cheating then do it to everyone the same . No special treatment .

Samadhi

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
...

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
the nature of botting is such that server-side records of it are difficult to distinguish -- server-side records show a characters location in space, timing of button presses, etc.
unfortunately, due to the nature of internet latency specifically timed button presses performed by a computer do not show up with the same predetermined rhythm when viewed in logs
GMs typically have the capacity to appear invisible to all players, so you would be unable to tell if they spend several days monitoring the bots you report before banning them
while the likelihood of continually employing GMs to camp places and try to discern whether or not people are bots is low
(spent a few years doing mod work for a f2p company; had to communicate frequently with GMs and the Community Manager and admins,
they were generous in terms of answering questions for me, but it could have all been lies )

have personally been accused of botting in ESO while grinding at keyboard -- idiot player following me around pestering me
then started Zone chatting about how I was clearly a bot because I was grinding the same route (was doing so due to respawn rate)
and not responding to his or her messages (was not doing so because he or she was annoying and there is no obligation to respond)
at that point, blocked the player and sent in a ticket about harassment, including reference that steps had already been taken to block the player but he or she was attempting to publicly disparage me in Zone

do not know if he or she was punished for harassment,
but personally never had any action or warning against my account for botting

I think I know how to differentiate between bots and other players in this game.... multiple characters standing in the same area, all with inferno staff, all under level 20 in beginners rags, all doing ONLY fully charged heavy attacks with each one pointing at a different enemy spawn, all with the same pet out. If it takes me 10 seconds to spot a group of bots it would take a GM the same amount of time, invisible or not.

Thanks for taking the time to read my reply
however, already predicted and responded to this point
ZOS, as a company, typically has to check and verify the truth of the matter before enacting a ban

if ZOS took 10 seconds to assess and assign bans in every scenario, would have to seriously question the legitimacy of bans

Ok so what does Zos do when they come up and see the exact scenario I described? Conduct tests? Take samples for research? There is nothing you can do other than showing up and assessing the situation. ...

Check server logs, see how long and consistently they have been farming,
check server logs for communication between the players/bots
contact the individuals (multiple times to make sure) via the in-game GM tag to see if they are responsive
force log and move the account then see if it resumes the actions in a new location, paths back to the area, or responds differently (this would more be used to distinguish between a basic key-pressing macro, a more complex program, and player presence)

in the event of a macro, they have to verify player presence/responsiveness
and if the player is at keyboard using a macro they may pursue information regarding potential health issues that would validate macro use as an assistance device

that is just a handful off the top of my head, as stated my position was moderator, did not have to directly deal with that portion of enforcement

contrast that with the trial exploit
where all they have to do is check the logs
which would show where the players were standing, what skill (Snipe spam) they were using, that the boss was not attacking and no player was taking damage from the boss
then whether it was a single run or multiple repeat runs, how many players/who participated in each given run
and that is just with regards to the lines of data pertaining to the act of exploiting itself
they would also have access to things like chat logs discussing how to do the exploit and advertising runs at a gold cost

it is actually easier to show that players intentionally broke the functionality of something in game,
and can be done even while the individuals are not actively performing the exploit

jlboozer

Kozato wrote: »

I haven't heard anything about this. Can someone link me to someething where ZoS said they banned this apparent bunch of people? Just curious to see.

They said it on ESO live Friday

Apache_Kid

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
...

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
the nature of botting is such that server-side records of it are difficult to distinguish -- server-side records show a characters location in space, timing of button presses, etc.
unfortunately, due to the nature of internet latency specifically timed button presses performed by a computer do not show up with the same predetermined rhythm when viewed in logs
GMs typically have the capacity to appear invisible to all players, so you would be unable to tell if they spend several days monitoring the bots you report before banning them
while the likelihood of continually employing GMs to camp places and try to discern whether or not people are bots is low
(spent a few years doing mod work for a f2p company; had to communicate frequently with GMs and the Community Manager and admins,
they were generous in terms of answering questions for me, but it could have all been lies )

have personally been accused of botting in ESO while grinding at keyboard -- idiot player following me around pestering me
then started Zone chatting about how I was clearly a bot because I was grinding the same route (was doing so due to respawn rate)
and not responding to his or her messages (was not doing so because he or she was annoying and there is no obligation to respond)
at that point, blocked the player and sent in a ticket about harassment, including reference that steps had already been taken to block the player but he or she was attempting to publicly disparage me in Zone

do not know if he or she was punished for harassment,
but personally never had any action or warning against my account for botting

I think I know how to differentiate between bots and other players in this game.... multiple characters standing in the same area, all with inferno staff, all under level 20 in beginners rags, all doing ONLY fully charged heavy attacks with each one pointing at a different enemy spawn, all with the same pet out. If it takes me 10 seconds to spot a group of bots it would take a GM the same amount of time, invisible or not.

Thanks for taking the time to read my reply
however, already predicted and responded to this point
ZOS, as a company, typically has to check and verify the truth of the matter before enacting a ban

if ZOS took 10 seconds to assess and assign bans in every scenario, would have to seriously question the legitimacy of bans

Ok so what does Zos do when they come up and see the exact scenario I described? Conduct tests? Take samples for research? There is nothing you can do other than showing up and assessing the situation. ...

Check server logs, see how long and consistently they have been farming,
check server logs for communication between the players/bots
contact the individuals (multiple times to make sure) via the in-game GM tag to see if they are responsive
force log and move the account then see if it resumes the actions in a new location, paths back to the area, or responds differently (this would more be used to distinguish between a basic key-pressing macro, a more complex program, and player presence)

in the event of a macro, they have to verify player presence/responsiveness
and if the player is at keyboard using a macro they may pursue information regarding potential health issues that would validate macro use as an assistance device

that is just a handful off the top of my head, as stated my position was moderator, did not have to directly deal with that portion of enforcement

contrast that with the trial exploit
where all they have to do is check the logs
which would show where the players were standing, what skill (Snipe spam) they were using, that the boss was not attacking and no player was taking damage from the boss
then whether it was a single run or multiple repeat runs, how many players/who participated in each given run
and that is just with regards to the lines of data pertaining to the act of exploiting itself
they would also have access to things like chat logs discussing how to do the exploit and advertising runs at a gold cost

it is actually easier to show that players intentionally broke the functionality of something in game,
and can be done even while the individuals are not actively performing the exploit

Other than the process of traveling to where the bots are and dealing with loading screens sounds like what you described above is about 15-30 minutes worth of work. About how long it took them to deal with the Asylum glitch. And even if you are right that it takes significantly less time than it does to deal with bots then you are proving my point that they only go after the low-hanging fruit and then make a big deal about it on here so it looks like they are doing something. My overall point of my original post was they they need MORE GMs policing bots AND boosters in Cyrodiil.

Samadhi

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
...

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
the nature of botting is such that server-side records of it are difficult to distinguish -- server-side records show a characters location in space, timing of button presses, etc.
unfortunately, due to the nature of internet latency specifically timed button presses performed by a computer do not show up with the same predetermined rhythm when viewed in logs
GMs typically have the capacity to appear invisible to all players, so you would be unable to tell if they spend several days monitoring the bots you report before banning them
while the likelihood of continually employing GMs to camp places and try to discern whether or not people are bots is low
(spent a few years doing mod work for a f2p company; had to communicate frequently with GMs and the Community Manager and admins,
they were generous in terms of answering questions for me, but it could have all been lies )

have personally been accused of botting in ESO while grinding at keyboard -- idiot player following me around pestering me
then started Zone chatting about how I was clearly a bot because I was grinding the same route (was doing so due to respawn rate)
and not responding to his or her messages (was not doing so because he or she was annoying and there is no obligation to respond)
at that point, blocked the player and sent in a ticket about harassment, including reference that steps had already been taken to block the player but he or she was attempting to publicly disparage me in Zone

do not know if he or she was punished for harassment,
but personally never had any action or warning against my account for botting

I think I know how to differentiate between bots and other players in this game.... multiple characters standing in the same area, all with inferno staff, all under level 20 in beginners rags, all doing ONLY fully charged heavy attacks with each one pointing at a different enemy spawn, all with the same pet out. If it takes me 10 seconds to spot a group of bots it would take a GM the same amount of time, invisible or not.

Thanks for taking the time to read my reply
however, already predicted and responded to this point
ZOS, as a company, typically has to check and verify the truth of the matter before enacting a ban

if ZOS took 10 seconds to assess and assign bans in every scenario, would have to seriously question the legitimacy of bans

Ok so what does Zos do when they come up and see the exact scenario I described? Conduct tests? Take samples for research? There is nothing you can do other than showing up and assessing the situation. ...

Check server logs, see how long and consistently they have been farming,
check server logs for communication between the players/bots
contact the individuals (multiple times to make sure) via the in-game GM tag to see if they are responsive
force log and move the account then see if it resumes the actions in a new location, paths back to the area, or responds differently (this would more be used to distinguish between a basic key-pressing macro, a more complex program, and player presence)

in the event of a macro, they have to verify player presence/responsiveness
and if the player is at keyboard using a macro they may pursue information regarding potential health issues that would validate macro use as an assistance device

that is just a handful off the top of my head, as stated my position was moderator, did not have to directly deal with that portion of enforcement

contrast that with the trial exploit
where all they have to do is check the logs
which would show where the players were standing, what skill (Snipe spam) they were using, that the boss was not attacking and no player was taking damage from the boss
then whether it was a single run or multiple repeat runs, how many players/who participated in each given run
and that is just with regards to the lines of data pertaining to the act of exploiting itself
they would also have access to things like chat logs discussing how to do the exploit and advertising runs at a gold cost

it is actually easier to show that players intentionally broke the functionality of something in game,
and can be done even while the individuals are not actively performing the exploit

Other than the process of traveling to where the bots are and dealing with loading screens sounds like what you deceived above is about 15-30 minutes worth of work. ...

You can already expect at least a minimum of 30 minutes waiting between messages to the players/bots, with 3 messages being the likely threshold for response
You can expect each character to be handled individually, and annoyingly probably sequentially rather than simultaneously

and that will be put into the schedule aside from performing other tasks like getting accounts unstuck, reviewing reports of people using naughty words in zone
with checking bots being at low priority -- as the longer they are in a location the more data is available with regards to consistency and potential patterns or interruptions

Apache_Kid wrote: »

... And even if you are right that it takes significantly less time than it does to deal with bots then you are proving my point that they only go after the low-hanging fruit and then make a big deal about it on here so it looks like they are doing something. My overall point of my original post was they they need MORE GMs policing bots AND boosters in Cyrodiil.

My response was only to the portion of your post that stated they do not deal with bots,
despite the fact that you expressed that bots apparently get banned

Do you want them to make a big deal about bots?
Do you feel that them doing so will provide an adequate example and message to the community that bots will cease?
Do you suspect that after they publicly announced the bans people are still using the trial exploit until ZOS fixes it?

Totally comprehend the point you are trying to make, have no objections to the sentiment that the game would benefit from more GMs

not here defending ZOS, was simply elucidating the variation in terms of having to deal with exploits and bots in a customer-based environment

Voxicity

Removed cause idk if it would be bannable for me to say or not. Nobody saw anything