Thanks ZoS for banning the cheaters...

Apache_Kid

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

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I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
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Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

...
I don't understand why I have reported bot trains in the same exact areas in Aliki'r and Rivenspire, yet they are still there everytime I go to look. (Yes it's different bots but you can tell by the bots behavior that it's most likely the same bot-master.)
...

If it is different bots each time but you can tell it is most likely the same bot-master,
would that not imply that they are banning the bots but the person responsible exercises persistence?

Sometimes It's the same bots for multiple days before they get replaced with new ones. My overall point being that I shouldn't have to be going to these spots multiple times a week to check for this. There should be game-masters checking these known spots periodically and doing it themselves. ZoS showed with this permaban that they want to be tough on crime but only when it is easy for them. They announce perma ban for Asylum glitchers because it was not only easy while also making them look good on here. But any cheating that actually requires game-masters to go in and see for themselves, gets no attention. Even though these boosters and bots affect our gameplay (not allowing anyone else to get Emp, bots hurt economy) while Asylum glitchers just got a video game achievement before someone else (doesn't affect gameplay).

Things worth noting:
Despite how easy you feel it is to identify botters, the company has to take it much more seriously and examine each instance,
the nature of botting is such that server-side records of it are difficult to distinguish -- server-side records show a characters location in space, timing of button presses, etc.
unfortunately, due to the nature of internet latency specifically timed button presses performed by a computer do not show up with the same predetermined rhythm when viewed in logs
GMs typically have the capacity to appear invisible to all players, so you would be unable to tell if they spend several days monitoring the bots you report before banning them
while the likelihood of continually employing GMs to camp places and try to discern whether or not people are bots is low
(spent a few years doing mod work for a f2p company; had to communicate frequently with GMs and the Community Manager and admins,
they were generous in terms of answering questions for me, but it could have all been lies )

have personally been accused of botting in ESO while grinding at keyboard -- idiot player following me around pestering me
then started Zone chatting about how I was clearly a bot because I was grinding the same route (was doing so due to respawn rate)
and not responding to his or her messages (was not doing so because he or she was annoying and there is no obligation to respond)
at that point, blocked the player and sent in a ticket about harassment, including reference that steps had already been taken to block the player but he or she was attempting to publicly disparage me in Zone

do not know if he or she was punished for harassment,
but personally never had any action or warning against my account for botting

I think I know how to differentiate between bots and other players in this game.... multiple characters standing in the same area, all with inferno staff, all under level 20 in beginners rags, all doing ONLY fully charged heavy attacks with each one pointing at a different enemy spawn, all with the same pet out. If it takes me 10 seconds to spot a group of bots it would take a GM the same amount of time, invisible or not.

Thanks for taking the time to read my reply
however, already predicted and responded to this point
ZOS, as a company, typically has to check and verify the truth of the matter before enacting a ban

if ZOS took 10 seconds to assess and assign bans in every scenario, would have to seriously question the legitimacy of bans

Ok so what does Zos do when they come up and see the exact scenario I described? Conduct tests? Take samples for research? There is nothing you can do other than showing up and assessing the situation. ...

Check server logs, see how long and consistently they have been farming,
check server logs for communication between the players/bots
contact the individuals (multiple times to make sure) via the in-game GM tag to see if they are responsive
force log and move the account then see if it resumes the actions in a new location, paths back to the area, or responds differently (this would more be used to distinguish between a basic key-pressing macro, a more complex program, and player presence)

in the event of a macro, they have to verify player presence/responsiveness
and if the player is at keyboard using a macro they may pursue information regarding potential health issues that would validate macro use as an assistance device

that is just a handful off the top of my head, as stated my position was moderator, did not have to directly deal with that portion of enforcement

contrast that with the trial exploit
where all they have to do is check the logs
which would show where the players were standing, what skill (Snipe spam) they were using, that the boss was not attacking and no player was taking damage from the boss
then whether it was a single run or multiple repeat runs, how many players/who participated in each given run
and that is just with regards to the lines of data pertaining to the act of exploiting itself
they would also have access to things like chat logs discussing how to do the exploit and advertising runs at a gold cost

it is actually easier to show that players intentionally broke the functionality of something in game,
and can be done even while the individuals are not actively performing the exploit

Other than the process of traveling to where the bots are and dealing with loading screens sounds like what you deceived above is about 15-30 minutes worth of work. ...

You can already expect at least a minimum of 30 minutes waiting between messages to the players/bots, with 3 messages being the likely threshold for response
You can expect each character to be handled individually, and annoyingly probably sequentially rather than simultaneously

and that will be put into the schedule aside from performing other tasks like getting accounts unstuck, reviewing reports of people using naughty words in zone
with checking bots being at low priority -- as the longer they are in a location the more data is available with regards to consistency and potential patterns or interruptions

Apache_Kid wrote: »

... And even if you are right that it takes significantly less time than it does to deal with bots then you are proving my point that they only go after the low-hanging fruit and then make a big deal about it on here so it looks like they are doing something. My overall point of my original post was they they need MORE GMs policing bots AND boosters in Cyrodiil.

My response was only to the portion of your post that stated they do not deal with bots,
despite the fact that you expressed that bots apparently get banned

Do you want them to make a big deal about bots?
Do you feel that them doing so will provide an adequate example and message to the community that bots will cease?
Do you suspect that after they publicly announced the bans people are still using the trial exploit until ZOS fixes it?

Totally comprehend the point you are trying to make, have no objections to the sentiment that the game would benefit from more GMs

not here defending ZOS, was simply elucidating the variation in terms of having to deal with exploits and bots in a customer-based environment

Ok fair enough. And for the record, yes I would like them to make a bigger deal about it in terms of remdining players of the consequences it can bring. It might not do much but it will do some. Also if the process of how to deal with bots is how you describe, it sounds extremely clunky and inefficient. I'm willing to accept that it's possible there isn't a way to streamline it but I feel like there has to be. I understand the need to 100% prove without a doubt that it's a bot group, but like I said, you can know in 10 seconds. Maybe there is somewhere inbetween that is a better place to sit on the "Bot-Or-Not" scale.