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We need alliance/class change token
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.3 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
Edit: I see what you are trying to say but don't see how making alts is more beneficial to ZoS than us spending a large fee on a race change token every time we want a different class. There is money being left on the table here.Edited by Apache_Kid on November 27, 2017 2:54PM0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Actually_Goku wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
Everyone would just change to the meta class, constantly.
If it was once per created character, then locked, sure, I can't see why it can't happen. However, the potential for people to abuse unlimited class change tokens would literally break the game.
It does not have to be unlimited. I also fail to see how even if it was unlimited everyone will break the game. Most classes other than a couple are relatively close to one another in terms of PvE balance and PvP everyone on here will claim every class is OP so what is even the "Meta class" everyone will be changing to? I do not see what you describe happening especially if the class-change token would be as expensive as i expect it to be.Edited by Apache_Kid on November 27, 2017 2:51PM0 -
red_emu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am mostly against an alliance change token but I would accept it if it cost loads of AP and reset your alliance war rank. Why? This kind of token would affect pvp only.
This... I totally agree! I have a couple of characters that I have created and levelled before I really got into PvP.
And please stop with the whole "Just create a new character! Buy training gear for every 10 lvls, buy ridiculously expensive XP pots and it will take a day or two". Well... Between 7 characters I have maybe 5k gold most of the time, so for me it's a 30-40 day grind (and I don't get to play every day). An alliance change token that resets your PvP rank would be great since I PvP for fun, not for the leaderboard.PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
Playtime, my dear Watson. Hours of Playtime. ZOS values your hours as much as they do the money direct from crowns. Players buying stuff in the Cash Shop is direct money. Players playing the game is the lifeblood of a game. Why do you think ZOS kept the RNG grind for as long as they could and then made the Transmutation grind require you to play so much of the game's content? You leveling an alt and never once buying something from the Crown Store is still a greater profit to ZOS than you changing an already leveled character to a new class.
ZOS has their eye on long term profit. Whether you profit them by leveling alts and adding hours of playtime to the game or you profit them by playing + buying shortcuts in the cash shop, it still benefits them with long-term, potentially repeatable gains. A short-term high cost purchase of a class change cuts them out of all that long term profit.
Its direct profit vs indirect profit, and when that indirect profit from leveling alts means more people spend more time playing the game, ZOS will always pick the indirect profit. Because more playtime by more players = more $$$.1 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.0 -
randomkeyhits✭✭✭✭✭I would be totally for an alliance change token ( not class)
IF.....
alliance was an account level choice.
It wouldn't stop all the flippers or meta abusers but it would certainly put a significant dent in the practices.
EU PS40 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.
You’re not dismantling anything with “I would” statements. Which all you’ve been making.
“I would do this, I would do that...”
The playerbase isn’t just you.
It’s a widely known fact of marketing that keeping a customer’s time invested makes the spend more. That’s how a merchant builds loyalty.
0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.
You’re not dismantling anything with “I would” statements. Which all you’ve been making.
“I would do this, I would do that...”
The playerbase isn’t just you.
It’s a widely known fact of marketing that keeping a customer’s time invested makes the spend more. That’s how a merchant builds loyalty.
I used myself as an example for a type of player that the token would appeal to. You are not providing a good argument by saying that the token would discourage people from purchasing other crown store items. You are claiming that the token would deter people from creating alts which I disagree with and have stated reasons as to why. You are also completely ignoring the money that a token like this would bring in. Having a player who only wants to have 1 character and buy a class change token every time they want to experience a new class (or even change their class back because they didnt like they one they switched to) could very well easily be a larger source of income for ZoS than someone who has 7 alts and a main. Not even considering the race change token a player has to buy in conjunction with the class change if they are switching from stamina to magic build or from a DPS to a Tank build etc. Your argument that adding this as a crown store item would cause a drop in sales of other times is too large of a leap for me. I do not see it causing a drop in crown store revenue.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You are still ignoring the playtime factor. Its not just about the crown store. Its the fact that ZOS values your playtime. Hours playing the game = $$$$ even if you don't subscribe.
Buying inventory space with gold? You have to play in order to make that gold (unless you hand over sensitive information to shady gold dealers, not recommended).
Training mounts with gold? You have to log in every day for 180 days to get a maxed mount.
Want achievement points? Heh, now you have to play the entire game again to get those points on the new character! We've hit the gold mine of playtime!
On the other hand, imagine that for some reason I desire to change my max level, max CP MagDK to a Warden. I buy this hypothetical Class change token, lose my progress on Dragonknight and gain the Warden class lines and then:
Race Change Token - I'm already a Dunmer, but lets say I want to be Altmer. $$$$$ ZOS is
Some hours of Playtime to level my skills and get the proper gear $$$$ ZOS is
Maxed Skyshards already, no need to explore - less playtime so less $, ZOS is
Already maxed Guild skill lines, no need to repeat - less playtime so less $, ZOS is
Already maxed Alliance War skills, no need to repeat - less playtime so less $, ZOS is
Plenty of Achievements, including Undaunted, high Alliance War Rank, festivals, Exploration, Questing, all stuff that doesn't need to be repeated - less playtime so less $, ZOS is
Already Maxed Horse = no $ or playtime for ZOS
Already maxed bag & bank = no $ or playtime for ZOS
Already max level so no Exp scrolls or pots = no $ or playtime for ZOS
Class Change would be great for me in that situation! I got a pretty darned effective new warden for the low, low price of a bunch of crowns and losing my Dragonknight. I got to keep all the progress I made with that character, and now get to enjoy my new skills after just a few hours of exp farming, probably dolmen running.
Class Change sucks for ZOS. Look at that list again. When I have to create a Warden alt and level it up, all those frowny faces turn to smiles, because ZOS benefits from every bit of playtime or crowns I put into that new character. The only thing they lost was a possible race change.
Now sure, you can hem and haw and limit a class change token to eliminate some of the factors I pointed out above, but the crux of the issue is still the same. ZOS benefits from playtime. Class change diminishes the amount of time you spend playing the game resulting in less money for ZOS. The one-time cost of an expensive class change token does not compensate ZOS for losing all that playtime plus the opportunity for further, smaller crown store purchases.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the biggest argument against class change is that you worry about FOTM builds becoming to popular. I think that argument made a lot of sense 2 years ago, when most people only had a few characters. Now that most serious players have 10-14 toons, it loses a little bit of persuasiveness.
The argument for alliance change is similar, in that you dont want people all jumping ship to the same alliance to roll the other two. I think guilds generally act as a good anchor for alliance loyalty, and if you added some limits, like changing alliances would lock you out of the campaign for a set amount of time, I think you could make it work.
Ultimately, I dont really care that much at this point. I am mostly EP, but I have a maxed out AD Sorc, and lowbie (all crafts and horses maxed) DC DK. I made them back when it made sense to have a toon in each faction for trading purposes. Since one tamriel, it no longer has any benefit. If I had the option, I would probably change them both to EP, and probably change the class of my low level DK. I would hate to delete him as he has maxed bags and crafting, but I currently have no intentions to ever level him.0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »You are still ignoring the playtime factor. Its not just about the crown store. Its the fact that ZOS values your playtime. Hours playing the game = $$$$ even if you don't subscribe.
Buying inventory space with gold? You have to play in order to make that gold (unless you hand over sensitive information to shady gold dealers, not recommended).
Training mounts with gold? You have to log in every day for 180 days to get a maxed mount.
Want achievement points? Heh, now you have to play the entire game again to get those points on the new character! We've hit the gold mine of playtime!
On the other hand, imagine that for some reason I desire to change my max level, max CP MagDK to a Warden. I buy this hypothetical Class change token, lose my progress on Dragonknight and gain the Warden class lines and then:
Race Change Token - I'm already a Dunmer, but lets say I want to be Altmer. $$$$$ ZOS is
Some hours of Playtime to level my skills and get the proper gear $$$$ ZOS is
Maxed Skyshards already, no need to explore - less playtime so less $, ZOS is
Already maxed Guild skill lines, no need to repeat - less playtime so less $, ZOS is
Already maxed Alliance War skills, no need to repeat - less playtime so less $, ZOS is
Plenty of Achievements, including Undaunted, high Alliance War Rank, festivals, Exploration, Questing, all stuff that doesn't need to be repeated - less playtime so less $, ZOS is
Already Maxed Horse = no $ or playtime for ZOS
Already maxed bag & bank = no $ or playtime for ZOS
Already max level so no Exp scrolls or pots = no $ or playtime for ZOS
Class Change would be great for me in that situation! I got a pretty darned effective new warden for the low, low price of a bunch of crowns and losing my Dragonknight. I got to keep all the progress I made with that character, and now get to enjoy my new skills after just a few hours of exp farming, probably dolmen running.
Class Change sucks for ZOS. Look at that list again. When I have to create a Warden alt and level it up, all those frowny faces turn to smiles, because ZOS benefits from every bit of playtime or crowns I put into that new character. The only thing they lost was a possible race change.
Now sure, you can hem and haw and limit a class change token to eliminate some of the factors I pointed out above, but the crux of the issue is still the same. ZOS benefits from playtime. Class change diminishes the amount of time you spend playing the game resulting in less money for ZOS. The one-time cost of an expensive class change token does not compensate ZOS for losing all that playtime plus the opportunity for further, smaller crown store purchases.
No one is going to re-grind achievement points unless they enjoy it as an activity because it is repeating content, much of which, are quests which are not very rewarding. If you enjoy doing the same stuff over again then you will make an alt and a class change token will never stop you from doing that. I would like to have all my achievements on a different character but getting 20k again is too much time. Logging in to do mount training? Not actually playing but just sitting in load-screens while switching characters All of these things that you are listing such as skyshards and getting to 50 are not even that time-consuming when done right. Also the crown store alternatives are way overpriced for their value especially when you can get the the same results with gold which is easy to obtian in -game with an endless supply. As far as alliance rank goes I would not be opposed to having one feature of using the token being having your rank reset. Furthermore, you are making the argument that the class change token would require ZoS to lose out on revenue which is simply not the case because increased play-time does not directly correlate to money spent. Every player is different. I as a company would rather take the road of guaranteed money in my pocket as a one time lump-sum than spaced out over lots of time in an amount that may even be less. Even if you are right and the reason that ZoS has not implemented the token is because of this dubious value on play-time, then in my opinion they are missing out on revenue and are in the wrong in the value placed on play-time. I know many guild-mates who are max-cp and don't buy things from crown store or sub, or only sub and don't buy things from the crown store. The token would improve the game play experience of myself and many others while also bringing in revenue from purchases of the token and accompanying race change tokens. If the class change token is priced at 5000 crowns as i suggested that's an 8000 crown swing right there in one purchase.Edited by Apache_Kid on November 27, 2017 4:56PM0 -
Bax✭✭✭Alliance swapping to put yourself on the side that wins more often than not DEFINITELY affects others in some way. And you know PvPlayers are not above abusing the Hell out of that.
You are not thinking out of the box.
There is plenty of ways how to avoid this. All alliance war progress including ranks, achievements and skill progress could be reset after a change. Or it could be available only at certain stages (after your home campaign ends or once per X months). Or plenty of other options.
Being forced to stay in one alliance, especially when there is possibility that your friends might quit the game and new friends you make are in different alliance, seems a bit harsh to me.0 -
majulook✭✭✭✭✭
✭IMHO...
Alliance change = Not a big deal for me, I have max amount of characters, and they are all in various Alliances.
Class change = Sure, would make it simpler to be come one of "new" class released with the newest "Chapter"
Doing all the the quests (even just the skill point quest), collecting skyshards, lore books, etc... after you level a a couple of character, is boring.
Si vis pacem, para bellum0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.
You’re not dismantling anything with “I would” statements. Which all you’ve been making.
“I would do this, I would do that...”
The playerbase isn’t just you.
It’s a widely known fact of marketing that keeping a customer’s time invested makes the spend more. That’s how a merchant builds loyalty.
I used myself as an example for a type of player that the token would appeal to. You are not providing a good argument by saying that the token would discourage people from purchasing other crown store items. You are claiming that the token would deter people from creating alts which I disagree with and have stated reasons as to why. You are also completely ignoring the money that a token like this would bring in. Having a player who only wants to have 1 character and buy a class change token every time they want to experience a new class (or even change their class back because they didnt like they one they switched to) could very well easily be a larger source of income for ZoS than someone who has 7 alts and a main. Not even considering the race change token a player has to buy in conjunction with the class change if they are switching from stamina to magic build or from a DPS to a Tank build etc. Your argument that adding this as a crown store item would cause a drop in sales of other times is too large of a leap for me. I do not see it causing a drop in crown store revenue.
I haven’t said any of what feign I have. Strawman is Strawman.
Potential profits are great, but consistent profits grease the wheels of business. The model for ESO is built on milking content and continued player engagement. Not having a class change token compliments that. It gives players something to do, which keeps them playing. Which feeds more opportunities to purchase crown items, and justifies the purchase of plus as well as expansions.
A class change circumvents the process. Thus the potential gains this token would need to be weighed against the loss of other potential gains. It’s variables against variables and speculative marketing is risky. Gambling isn’t exactly a great business model.
The “drop” as you put it. Is to player engagement. The time a player spends playing. If a person doesn’t get enough time out of an entertain investment, they have a strong tendency to invest elsewhere.0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.
You’re not dismantling anything with “I would” statements. Which all you’ve been making.
“I would do this, I would do that...”
The playerbase isn’t just you.
It’s a widely known fact of marketing that keeping a customer’s time invested makes the spend more. That’s how a merchant builds loyalty.
I used myself as an example for a type of player that the token would appeal to. You are not providing a good argument by saying that the token would discourage people from purchasing other crown store items. You are claiming that the token would deter people from creating alts which I disagree with and have stated reasons as to why. You are also completely ignoring the money that a token like this would bring in. Having a player who only wants to have 1 character and buy a class change token every time they want to experience a new class (or even change their class back because they didnt like they one they switched to) could very well easily be a larger source of income for ZoS than someone who has 7 alts and a main. Not even considering the race change token a player has to buy in conjunction with the class change if they are switching from stamina to magic build or from a DPS to a Tank build etc. Your argument that adding this as a crown store item would cause a drop in sales of other times is too large of a leap for me. I do not see it causing a drop in crown store revenue.
I haven’t said any of what feign I have. Strawman is Strawman.
Potential profits are great, but consistent profits grease the wheels of business. The model for ESO is built on milking content and continued player engagement. Not having a class change token compliments that. It gives players something to do, which keeps them playing. Which feeds more opportunities to purchase crown items, and justifies the purchase of plus as well as expansions.
A class change circumvents the process. Thus the potential gains this token would need to be weighed against the loss of other potential gains. It’s variables against variables and speculative marketing is risky. Gambling isn’t exactly a great business model.
The “drop” as you put it. Is to player engagement. The time a player spends playing. If a person doesn’t get enough time out of an entertain investment, they have a strong tendency to invest elsewhere.
Yeah but the activities you are suggesting are not entertaining. Doing the same things on alts over and over and over is not fun and this token will be a pricey work-around to not have to re-grind achievement points or what mount speed etc. The current crown store alternatives are too pricey for what they give (riding lessons and space) to be hot-sellers. Give someone the option to keep achievement points and the potential to have to buy a race change token on top of it, now that's real money. If a person has to invest time doing the same content and menial chores over and over they will invest their time elsewhere.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.
You’re not dismantling anything with “I would” statements. Which all you’ve been making.
“I would do this, I would do that...”
The playerbase isn’t just you.
It’s a widely known fact of marketing that keeping a customer’s time invested makes the spend more. That’s how a merchant builds loyalty.
I used myself as an example for a type of player that the token would appeal to. You are not providing a good argument by saying that the token would discourage people from purchasing other crown store items. You are claiming that the token would deter people from creating alts which I disagree with and have stated reasons as to why. You are also completely ignoring the money that a token like this would bring in. Having a player who only wants to have 1 character and buy a class change token every time they want to experience a new class (or even change their class back because they didnt like they one they switched to) could very well easily be a larger source of income for ZoS than someone who has 7 alts and a main. Not even considering the race change token a player has to buy in conjunction with the class change if they are switching from stamina to magic build or from a DPS to a Tank build etc. Your argument that adding this as a crown store item would cause a drop in sales of other times is too large of a leap for me. I do not see it causing a drop in crown store revenue.
I haven’t said any of what feign I have. Strawman is Strawman.
Potential profits are great, but consistent profits grease the wheels of business. The model for ESO is built on milking content and continued player engagement. Not having a class change token compliments that. It gives players something to do, which keeps them playing. Which feeds more opportunities to purchase crown items, and justifies the purchase of plus as well as expansions.
A class change circumvents the process. Thus the potential gains this token would need to be weighed against the loss of other potential gains. It’s variables against variables and speculative marketing is risky. Gambling isn’t exactly a great business model.
The “drop” as you put it. Is to player engagement. The time a player spends playing. If a person doesn’t get enough time out of an entertain investment, they have a strong tendency to invest elsewhere.
Yeah but the activities you are suggesting are not entertaining. Doing the same things on alts over and over and over is not fun and this token will be a pricey work-around to not have to re-grind achievement points or what mount speed etc. The current crown store alternatives are too pricey for what they give (riding lessons and space) to be hot-sellers. Give someone the option to keep achievement points and the potential to have to buy a race change token on top of it, now that's real money. If a person has to invest time doing the same content and menial chores over and over they will invest their time elsewhere.
Well if leveling alts is no longer fun for you then maybe you have just burnt out on the game.
To me the most fun I have in the game is creating a new alt from scratch and leveling it.
There are many leveling paths in this game and you don't always have to take the same one.0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.
You’re not dismantling anything with “I would” statements. Which all you’ve been making.
“I would do this, I would do that...”
The playerbase isn’t just you.
It’s a widely known fact of marketing that keeping a customer’s time invested makes the spend more. That’s how a merchant builds loyalty.
I used myself as an example for a type of player that the token would appeal to. You are not providing a good argument by saying that the token would discourage people from purchasing other crown store items. You are claiming that the token would deter people from creating alts which I disagree with and have stated reasons as to why. You are also completely ignoring the money that a token like this would bring in. Having a player who only wants to have 1 character and buy a class change token every time they want to experience a new class (or even change their class back because they didnt like they one they switched to) could very well easily be a larger source of income for ZoS than someone who has 7 alts and a main. Not even considering the race change token a player has to buy in conjunction with the class change if they are switching from stamina to magic build or from a DPS to a Tank build etc. Your argument that adding this as a crown store item would cause a drop in sales of other times is too large of a leap for me. I do not see it causing a drop in crown store revenue.
I haven’t said any of what feign I have. Strawman is Strawman.
Potential profits are great, but consistent profits grease the wheels of business. The model for ESO is built on milking content and continued player engagement. Not having a class change token compliments that. It gives players something to do, which keeps them playing. Which feeds more opportunities to purchase crown items, and justifies the purchase of plus as well as expansions.
A class change circumvents the process. Thus the potential gains this token would need to be weighed against the loss of other potential gains. It’s variables against variables and speculative marketing is risky. Gambling isn’t exactly a great business model.
The “drop” as you put it. Is to player engagement. The time a player spends playing. If a person doesn’t get enough time out of an entertain investment, they have a strong tendency to invest elsewhere.
Yeah but the activities you are suggesting are not entertaining. Doing the same things on alts over and over and over is not fun and this token will be a pricey work-around to not have to re-grind achievement points or what mount speed etc. The current crown store alternatives are too pricey for what they give (riding lessons and space) to be hot-sellers. Give someone the option to keep achievement points and the potential to have to buy a race change token on top of it, now that's real money. If a person has to invest time doing the same content and menial chores over and over they will invest their time elsewhere.
Well if leveling alts is no longer fun for you then maybe you have just burnt out on the game.
To me the most fun I have in the game is creating a new alt from scratch and leveling it.
There are many leveling paths in this game and you don't always have to take the same one.
Doing quests I've done multiple times already isn't fun. Killing mobs isn't fun. Grinding anchors isn't fun. Doing 1 random normal per day is better but I've done all of those too many times for normal to be fun. Now I just pay for Skyreach runs or have friend run me through.
Did I miss anything? Always down to try something new.
1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.
You’re not dismantling anything with “I would” statements. Which all you’ve been making.
“I would do this, I would do that...”
The playerbase isn’t just you.
It’s a widely known fact of marketing that keeping a customer’s time invested makes the spend more. That’s how a merchant builds loyalty.
I used myself as an example for a type of player that the token would appeal to. You are not providing a good argument by saying that the token would discourage people from purchasing other crown store items. You are claiming that the token would deter people from creating alts which I disagree with and have stated reasons as to why. You are also completely ignoring the money that a token like this would bring in. Having a player who only wants to have 1 character and buy a class change token every time they want to experience a new class (or even change their class back because they didnt like they one they switched to) could very well easily be a larger source of income for ZoS than someone who has 7 alts and a main. Not even considering the race change token a player has to buy in conjunction with the class change if they are switching from stamina to magic build or from a DPS to a Tank build etc. Your argument that adding this as a crown store item would cause a drop in sales of other times is too large of a leap for me. I do not see it causing a drop in crown store revenue.
I haven’t said any of what feign I have. Strawman is Strawman.
Potential profits are great, but consistent profits grease the wheels of business. The model for ESO is built on milking content and continued player engagement. Not having a class change token compliments that. It gives players something to do, which keeps them playing. Which feeds more opportunities to purchase crown items, and justifies the purchase of plus as well as expansions.
A class change circumvents the process. Thus the potential gains this token would need to be weighed against the loss of other potential gains. It’s variables against variables and speculative marketing is risky. Gambling isn’t exactly a great business model.
The “drop” as you put it. Is to player engagement. The time a player spends playing. If a person doesn’t get enough time out of an entertain investment, they have a strong tendency to invest elsewhere.
Yeah but the activities you are suggesting are not entertaining. Doing the same things on alts over and over and over is not fun and this token will be a pricey work-around to not have to re-grind achievement points or what mount speed etc. The current crown store alternatives are too pricey for what they give (riding lessons and space) to be hot-sellers. Give someone the option to keep achievement points and the potential to have to buy a race change token on top of it, now that's real money. If a person has to invest time doing the same content and menial chores over and over they will invest their time elsewhere.
Well if leveling alts is no longer fun for you then maybe you have just burnt out on the game.
To me the most fun I have in the game is creating a new alt from scratch and leveling it.
There are many leveling paths in this game and you don't always have to take the same one.
Doing quests I've done multiple times already isn't fun. Killing mobs isn't fun. Grinding anchors isn't fun. Doing 1 random normal per day is better but I've done all of those too many times for normal to be fun. Now I just pay for Skyreach runs or have friend run me through.
Did I miss anything? Always down to try something new.
With all the DLC in the game most of which contain dailies makes them an option as you can get some good rewards from them as well.
I have alts that after level 10 never did anything but PvP as well other than gathering a few shards and books.
0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.
You’re not dismantling anything with “I would” statements. Which all you’ve been making.
“I would do this, I would do that...”
The playerbase isn’t just you.
It’s a widely known fact of marketing that keeping a customer’s time invested makes the spend more. That’s how a merchant builds loyalty.
I used myself as an example for a type of player that the token would appeal to. You are not providing a good argument by saying that the token would discourage people from purchasing other crown store items. You are claiming that the token would deter people from creating alts which I disagree with and have stated reasons as to why. You are also completely ignoring the money that a token like this would bring in. Having a player who only wants to have 1 character and buy a class change token every time they want to experience a new class (or even change their class back because they didnt like they one they switched to) could very well easily be a larger source of income for ZoS than someone who has 7 alts and a main. Not even considering the race change token a player has to buy in conjunction with the class change if they are switching from stamina to magic build or from a DPS to a Tank build etc. Your argument that adding this as a crown store item would cause a drop in sales of other times is too large of a leap for me. I do not see it causing a drop in crown store revenue.
I haven’t said any of what feign I have. Strawman is Strawman.
Potential profits are great, but consistent profits grease the wheels of business. The model for ESO is built on milking content and continued player engagement. Not having a class change token compliments that. It gives players something to do, which keeps them playing. Which feeds more opportunities to purchase crown items, and justifies the purchase of plus as well as expansions.
A class change circumvents the process. Thus the potential gains this token would need to be weighed against the loss of other potential gains. It’s variables against variables and speculative marketing is risky. Gambling isn’t exactly a great business model.
The “drop” as you put it. Is to player engagement. The time a player spends playing. If a person doesn’t get enough time out of an entertain investment, they have a strong tendency to invest elsewhere.
Yeah but the activities you are suggesting are not entertaining. Doing the same things on alts over and over and over is not fun and this token will be a pricey work-around to not have to re-grind achievement points or what mount speed etc. The current crown store alternatives are too pricey for what they give (riding lessons and space) to be hot-sellers. Give someone the option to keep achievement points and the potential to have to buy a race change token on top of it, now that's real money. If a person has to invest time doing the same content and menial chores over and over they will invest their time elsewhere.
Well if leveling alts is no longer fun for you then maybe you have just burnt out on the game.
To me the most fun I have in the game is creating a new alt from scratch and leveling it.
There are many leveling paths in this game and you don't always have to take the same one.
Doing quests I've done multiple times already isn't fun. Killing mobs isn't fun. Grinding anchors isn't fun. Doing 1 random normal per day is better but I've done all of those too many times for normal to be fun. Now I just pay for Skyreach runs or have friend run me through.
Did I miss anything? Always down to try something new.
With all the DLC in the game most of which contain dailies makes them an option as you can get some good rewards from them as well.
I have alts that after level 10 never did anything but PvP as well other than gathering a few shards and books.
I guess I could go level in Kyne. Would probably be slow but it's gotta be more fun. Will try that for my next character.0 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭No.
The game is already easy enough and players get nearly everything they want.
While I’m against class changes. As content like vMA and Trials are most harder for some classes so titles earned mean more. Alliance changes could be allowed. It only matters for PvP anyways.
I don’t believe you should lose AP or ranks experience fighting is not lose just cause you change teams. A general is a general the same time and AP is needed for all three Alliances.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.
You’re not dismantling anything with “I would” statements. Which all you’ve been making.
“I would do this, I would do that...”
The playerbase isn’t just you.
It’s a widely known fact of marketing that keeping a customer’s time invested makes the spend more. That’s how a merchant builds loyalty.
I used myself as an example for a type of player that the token would appeal to. You are not providing a good argument by saying that the token would discourage people from purchasing other crown store items. You are claiming that the token would deter people from creating alts which I disagree with and have stated reasons as to why. You are also completely ignoring the money that a token like this would bring in. Having a player who only wants to have 1 character and buy a class change token every time they want to experience a new class (or even change their class back because they didnt like they one they switched to) could very well easily be a larger source of income for ZoS than someone who has 7 alts and a main. Not even considering the race change token a player has to buy in conjunction with the class change if they are switching from stamina to magic build or from a DPS to a Tank build etc. Your argument that adding this as a crown store item would cause a drop in sales of other times is too large of a leap for me. I do not see it causing a drop in crown store revenue.
I haven’t said any of what feign I have. Strawman is Strawman.
Potential profits are great, but consistent profits grease the wheels of business. The model for ESO is built on milking content and continued player engagement. Not having a class change token compliments that. It gives players something to do, which keeps them playing. Which feeds more opportunities to purchase crown items, and justifies the purchase of plus as well as expansions.
A class change circumvents the process. Thus the potential gains this token would need to be weighed against the loss of other potential gains. It’s variables against variables and speculative marketing is risky. Gambling isn’t exactly a great business model.
The “drop” as you put it. Is to player engagement. The time a player spends playing. If a person doesn’t get enough time out of an entertain investment, they have a strong tendency to invest elsewhere.
Yeah but the activities you are suggesting are not entertaining. Doing the same things on alts over and over and over is not fun and this token will be a pricey work-around to not have to re-grind achievement points or what mount speed etc. The current crown store alternatives are too pricey for what they give (riding lessons and space) to be hot-sellers. Give someone the option to keep achievement points and the potential to have to buy a race change token on top of it, now that's real money. If a person has to invest time doing the same content and menial chores over and over they will invest their time elsewhere.
Well if leveling alts is no longer fun for you then maybe you have just burnt out on the game.
To me the most fun I have in the game is creating a new alt from scratch and leveling it.
There are many leveling paths in this game and you don't always have to take the same one.
Doing quests I've done multiple times already isn't fun. Killing mobs isn't fun. Grinding anchors isn't fun. Doing 1 random normal per day is better but I've done all of those too many times for normal to be fun. Now I just pay for Skyreach runs or have friend run me through.
Did I miss anything? Always down to try something new.
With all the DLC in the game most of which contain dailies makes them an option as you can get some good rewards from them as well.
I have alts that after level 10 never did anything but PvP as well other than gathering a few shards and books.
I guess I could go level in Kyne. Would probably be slow but it's gotta be more fun. Will try that for my next character.
Goes faster than you think as you get a lot of XP in Cyrodiil now, so much so the guys in Kyne complain about leveling too fast.0 -
jkolb2030✭✭✭This came up before...
The reason many people say "no" is because the "Any Race, Any Alliance" was an additional pack that you had to pay for when the game released. So the original idea was that "I paid for this content exclusively, it shouldn't be offered with the race change token!" .
And I honestly agree. An Alliance change token should NOT be part of the Race Change token; but if they want to make an Alliance change token a totally separate thing for a greater cost of crowns, then I say I wouldn't mind. It has to be balanced tho, because you cannot have everyone flip flopping Alliances at the end of every campaign to get the rewards/Emperor flips and such.
If they can't balance it, then it shouldn't be done - it would pretty much kill their basis of competitive PvP.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Still waiting on 1 person to come up with a good argument for not allowing a class-change token.
ZOS wanted you to have to spend the time regrinding your character to level 50, the time or crowns to get your new character's mount maxed out, and the money/crowns to max out bag and bank space, and the time/gold to max your crafting skills. Every time you level a new character, you add hours of playtime to the game.
That's why there isn't a class change token. Because not having one benefits ZOS in every way.
Why? If we know ZoS, the class change token would be very expensive. Im thinking around 5000 crowns. At this price, most people will want to role an alt if they want to play another class. You get the benefit of having another character with free slots and only the experience of having a different race without having to buy multiple tokens. Because of it's price I would imagine it would only be used for those who want to change their main character to keep their achievement points.
5000 crowns for a one shot change compared with the hours of playtime that you need to level an alt and the amount of time/gold/crowns they could gain from people doing mount training and bag and bank space? No, ZOS knows exactly where their long term profit is. Class Change tokens are short term profit for ZOS. Grinding Alts is long term profit.
Grinding alts is not long term profit because I could grind out 7 alts and never spend a single dime in the crown store or sub a single time. Me spending 5000 crowns for a class-change puts money directly into their pocket and that's where your argument falls apart.
But it you pay for plus? Was plus justified because you had something to do in game?
Cash shop revenue for non-F2P games is windfall profits. One time, sporadic purchases aren’t guaranteed revenue streams. Hard to plan a business around a bottom line with such fluctuations. Giving players something to do, even if it’s create alts, tends to justify more consistent purchases in the future. Each of those 7 alts presents new opportunities to spend for horse trains or the cosmetics and mounts of the crown store. It’s more room needed for store too. Plus bag or back inventory upgrades look good with a glut of alts. It stretches the ‘length’ of content, keeping players in game. Keeping them engaged. Keeping spending by giving them more opportunities.
You’ve been given good arguments. You simply want what you want, and don’t want to be told no.
No i have not. I have been given arguments that I have dismantled at every turn. Someone could buy a class-change token and still choose to buy the things you listed above in the crown store. I'd argue that making alts give you less of a need for storage as You can buy inventory space with gold and those new characters can now hold things you can't fit into your bank. I have many alts and still want to buy a class-change token. A token like this, expensive as it would surely be if implemented, would mainly appeal to players like myself who have grinded many achievement points on their main character and just want a different experience on that specific character. Being able to change the class of my main WOULD NOT discourage me from making more alts as this way I can play multiple different classes without having to pay for a token. This would not cannibalize anything else in the crown store. I cannont see someone who wants to play multiple different builds buying a class and race change token every single time they want a new class as the cost would simply be too high. And even if a player chose to do this it would give ZoS more money in the long -run than someone not buying these tokens and occasionally buying a costume or what have you.
You’re not dismantling anything with “I would” statements. Which all you’ve been making.
“I would do this, I would do that...”
The playerbase isn’t just you.
It’s a widely known fact of marketing that keeping a customer’s time invested makes the spend more. That’s how a merchant builds loyalty.
I used myself as an example for a type of player that the token would appeal to. You are not providing a good argument by saying that the token would discourage people from purchasing other crown store items. You are claiming that the token would deter people from creating alts which I disagree with and have stated reasons as to why. You are also completely ignoring the money that a token like this would bring in. Having a player who only wants to have 1 character and buy a class change token every time they want to experience a new class (or even change their class back because they didnt like they one they switched to) could very well easily be a larger source of income for ZoS than someone who has 7 alts and a main. Not even considering the race change token a player has to buy in conjunction with the class change if they are switching from stamina to magic build or from a DPS to a Tank build etc. Your argument that adding this as a crown store item would cause a drop in sales of other times is too large of a leap for me. I do not see it causing a drop in crown store revenue.
I haven’t said any of what feign I have. Strawman is Strawman.
Potential profits are great, but consistent profits grease the wheels of business. The model for ESO is built on milking content and continued player engagement. Not having a class change token compliments that. It gives players something to do, which keeps them playing. Which feeds more opportunities to purchase crown items, and justifies the purchase of plus as well as expansions.
A class change circumvents the process. Thus the potential gains this token would need to be weighed against the loss of other potential gains. It’s variables against variables and speculative marketing is risky. Gambling isn’t exactly a great business model.
The “drop” as you put it. Is to player engagement. The time a player spends playing. If a person doesn’t get enough time out of an entertain investment, they have a strong tendency to invest elsewhere.
Yeah but the activities you are suggesting are not entertaining. Doing the same things on alts over and over and over is not fun and this token will be a pricey work-around to not have to re-grind achievement points or what mount speed etc. The current crown store alternatives are too pricey for what they give (riding lessons and space) to be hot-sellers. Give someone the option to keep achievement points and the potential to have to buy a race change token on top of it, now that's real money. If a person has to invest time doing the same content and menial chores over and over they will invest their time elsewhere.
RPG...
Rolling and building new characters is a big part of the experience for much of the audience ESO have cultivated. Why do you think people keep buying Skyrim over and over.
Again the playerbase isn’t just you. They do not all think as you do.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Needing ans wanting are two different things. I understand OP wants alliance and class change but I don't think Zos sees a need for it.
Well, at the very least Zos feels it's not sufficient offset of other revenue lost.0
