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PVP is not easy

  • zaria
    zaria
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.
    If this was true then every BiS newbie would be storming Cyrodiil as a 1vX hero.

    Gear is one thing, knowing how to use that gear and your skills to their best whilst using LoS to control fights is a lot of what PvP is about, all of which is player skill.
    This, the idea that an PvP noob even if an decent player will win against an good PvP player is just out there.
    Talking as an PvP scrub and zergling here.
    Gear is not as important as long as its relevant.
    In PvP you obviously have an PvP bar, ignoring that it might not be fully leveled on noob.
    That next is using the skills correctly. Here the pro will run trough noobs like trash mob.

    Same is true in PvE but in an far less degree as low dps mostly result in you use longer time and has higher chance of errors.

    Now if we talk an very good against an decent pvp player this changes so the decent will beat the good if the good has crappy gear, but how relevant is this?
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • TazESO
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    Lol.... because it is hard to be "good". I still play, usually support roles with my guildies. Without them, not really fun most times, because I am terrible solo.
  • Lieblingsjunge
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    Warden is a beast in PvP. MagWarden especially, as stamwarden lacks a tiny bit of... stuff.

    MagWarden is just.. OP. In PvP. But it requires timing, skill and knowledge about the class to play it. The amount of different combos, dots, healing, when to do what etc. But it's really, really strong.

    Although, I'll just repeat what I always say: In Cyrodiil - unless you run in a voice-chat/organised group: Healers shouldn't exist. In Cyrodiil you should learn to kill and survive on your own.
    Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
    PC - EU.
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    Officer/Sandwitch of Zerg Squad
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  • Kay1
    Kay1
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    zaria wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.
    If this was true then every BiS newbie would be storming Cyrodiil as a 1vX hero.

    Gear is one thing, knowing how to use that gear and your skills to their best whilst using LoS to control fights is a lot of what PvP is about, all of which is player skill.
    This, the idea that an PvP noob even if an decent player will win against an good PvP player is just out there.
    Talking as an PvP scrub and zergling here.
    Gear is not as important as long as its relevant.
    In PvP you obviously have an PvP bar, ignoring that it might not be fully leveled on noob.
    That next is using the skills correctly. Here the pro will run trough noobs like trash mob.

    Same is true in PvE but in an far less degree as low dps mostly result in you use longer time and has higher chance of errors.

    Now if we talk an very good against an decent pvp player this changes so the decent will beat the good if the good has crappy gear, but how relevant is this?

    Don't feed them, they just don't wanna admit the fact that animation cancelling, positioning, skill knowledge, perma buff knowledge, map knowledge, sustain skill (hello I sustain with 1.2k regen :) my gear I guess :)) and of course timing.

    They can't understand that in a zerg stomping casuals while wearing proc sets you know.

    Like the mighty ProcSypherPK said "proc sets don't make a bad player better" nooooo, who would dare to say that :)?
    K1 The Big Monkey
  • Kahina
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    Turelus wrote: »
    I have no doubt it helps people, but your claim was that gear and skill don't have as much to do with victories as ping.

    You've done nothing to counter that claim. Mostly because you can't. There are no counter claims that stand up to scrutiny. I've been watching these same debates occur since the days of Quake Team Fortress.

    It does more than just help people. The average human reaction time is a little over 200ms. The best are around 100ms. That right there is the skill level difference. 100ms, best to average. Let's leave below average out of it.

    With 100ms - 300ms difference (latency) between players before we allow reaction times to influence things, there is no skill difference that can be shown to be the major influence on outcomes. People are playing from all over the world on two servers. This is what latency equalization in an online game works around.

    Anyone can match the best gear sets given the time to farm them. Anyone can rote practice until near perfect. Latency however, especially in a game without equalization, you are stuck with.

    You've done nothing to counter my claim.
    Edited by Kahina on October 25, 2017 2:42PM
  • Autumnhart
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    Nahtal wrote: »
    Like to play PVP but always as healer (not good with tank and DPS) trying to play with it, but suck at it. Main story now playing with Warden class (also as healer) still think this class can be improved. Seems also in dungeons with warden class healing feels like buggy (any experience that?)

    They tell warden class is not good when want play PVP with it. Any thoughts on that?

    The Warden was made for PVP. You're going to have problems if you try to play as a pure healer unless you run with a guild.
    Shadow hide you.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    Community Ambassador
    Kahina wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    I have no doubt it helps people, but your claim was that gear and skill don't have as much to do with victories as ping.

    You've done nothing to counter that claim. Mostly because you can't. There are no counter claims that stand up to scrutiny. I've been watching these same debates occur since the days of Quake Team Fortress.

    It does more than just help people. The average human reaction time is a little over 200ms. The best are around 100ms. That right there is the skill level difference. 100ms, best to average. Let's leave below average out of it.

    With 100ms - 300ms difference (latency) between players before we allow reaction times to influence things, there is no skill difference that can be shown to be the major influence on outcomes. People are playing from all over the world on two servers. This is what latency equalization in an online game works around.

    Anyone can match the best gear sets given the time to farm them. Anyone can rote practice until near perfect. Latency however, especially in a game without equalization, you are stuck with.

    You've done nothing to counter my claim.
    Right, but I am not debating that. I am debating your claim that skill doesn't matter and latency is the only thing which does.

    So if we all had 30ms ping, the same gear and the same time in game then there would be no players who are clearly better than the others?
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
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  • Girl_Number8
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    The lag, random loading screens, ui glitches won pvp, lol. :*

    The warden is fun in PvP. Just learn your playstyle in PvP it takes time. Get in with a coordinated group that works together. They will help you with your build too. Set your character up just for PvP. Unlock both PvP skill lines fully, the passives will help you a lot.

    Have fun it's a game. :)
  • zaria
    zaria
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    TazESO wrote: »
    Lol.... because it is hard to be "good". I still play, usually support roles with my guildies. Without them, not really fun most times, because I am terrible solo.
    This, the fraction of player killing blows to deaths is exactly 1:1, have fun changing this :)
    Edited by zaria on October 25, 2017 4:32PM
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • DeHei
    DeHei
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    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.

    is not true... its more like this:
    Biro123 wrote: »
    PVP is hard, and has a very steep learning curve.

    First you need to learn how to make damage with animationcancelling! This is nearly the most important thing in this game, but also difficult to learn. So best you can do to learn how to make a good DPS at a dummie first. Look some tuturials from experienced players and try it.
    After learning it or while learning it you should also have an idea how you want to play. I needed 2 years to create a successful non-META build just for Templar. So its not just join the game and playing successful... you really need to learn much before...

    Beyond Infinity - PC/EU
    DeHei - AD Magicka Templar Allrounder
    Psycotronix - DC Stamina Dragonknight
    De Freez - DC Magicka Warden
    De Hei(Youtube)
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    DeHei wrote: »

    First you need to learn how to make damage with animationcancelling! This is nearly the most important thing in this game, but also difficult to learn. So best you can do to learn how to make a good DPS at a dummie first. Look some tuturials from experienced players and try it.
    After learning it or while learning it you should also have an idea how you want to play. I needed 2 years to create a successful non-META build just for Templar. So its not just join the game and playing successful... you really need to learn much before...

    man that would be super useful if it weren't for...
    Kahina wrote: »
    Have you ever played a game with latency equalization? Not a lot of games have it. It's rather rare. It changes much, as one would expect it to. If it was all skill (or gear), it would change nothing.

    Now excuse my while I go back to my 350ms ping ESO gaming.

    350 ping, no animation cancelling for me, I will always suck.

    ZoS killed my ability to even use my PVP set up this patch, as such I am not playing PVP atm.
  • DeHei
    DeHei
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    DeHei wrote: »

    First you need to learn how to make damage with animationcancelling! This is nearly the most important thing in this game, but also difficult to learn. So best you can do to learn how to make a good DPS at a dummie first. Look some tuturials from experienced players and try it.
    After learning it or while learning it you should also have an idea how you want to play. I needed 2 years to create a successful non-META build just for Templar. So its not just join the game and playing successful... you really need to learn much before...

    man that would be super useful if it weren't for...
    Kahina wrote: »
    Have you ever played a game with latency equalization? Not a lot of games have it. It's rather rare. It changes much, as one would expect it to. If it was all skill (or gear), it would change nothing.

    Now excuse my while I go back to my 350ms ping ESO gaming.

    350 ping, no animation cancelling for me, I will always suck.

    ZoS killed my ability to even use my PVP set up this patch, as such I am not playing PVP atm.

    yeah a high ping sux for this gameplay.. i started to work on my PC performance to fix that 1 year ago. I allways have a really good ping now... but i remember for days i played WoW with ISDN (48k modem) :D
    Beyond Infinity - PC/EU
    DeHei - AD Magicka Templar Allrounder
    Psycotronix - DC Stamina Dragonknight
    De Freez - DC Magicka Warden
    De Hei(Youtube)
  • Colecovision
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    Is pvp that part of the game where I'm fighting Daedra or a delve boss, then my screen fills with the word "cliff racer" and then I am back at a wayshrine? Or is it the part where I follow a large group when they go by, spam poison injection and get stuff in the mail? I have no idea what's happening when taking a castle and if I stray from the group, my screen again fills with the word "cliff racer" and I'm spawning off in the distance. Then somehow, I still get stuff in the mail. Last time 19.5k showed up almost a week later. I liked that, but didn't earn it. I got credit for killing 12 people but I have no idea which ones or how that was measured. Zero skill was involved in those killings. FWIW, I do help with the guards, aka the pve part.

    I'm not trying to derail the real topic here, I'm just pointing out that there is a huge variable here that might make people think they are better than they are. If you want pvp with skill, a starting point would be to stop filling cyrodil with lambs for the slaughter who don't actually pvp. It's not fun for us and how are you guys/gals going to measure and develop skills when the player you're killing isn't actually playing the same game?
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
    deepseamk20b14_ESO
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    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.

    Defeatist mentality. I’ll at least agree gear matters more in this game than most others I have played but you could put some in BIS gear that has no skill and a really good player in crap gear and the better player will still win. The day everyone starts blaming gear sets on why they die is the day they should maybe reassess their own skills. Not saying you’re bad as I don’t know you and won’t judge, but I see others wit this mentality too and there is a common theme.
    PvP sucks! I have never liked PvP and hate the fact that game developers cater to them that do.

    I know right? All this PvP content over the last three years is just way too much! I wish there would be PvE oriented DLC for once! *end sarcasm*
    Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!
  • Wreuntzylla
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    Skoomah wrote: »
    Good builds are a major factor to winning in pvp. That includes a lot of time theorycrafting to get the right mix of class, skills mix, skill rotation, gear, traits, glyphs, mundus stone, food/drink, team composition. And all these different choices are optimal based on different situations. There are hundreds of way to build a character. The combinations are nearly endless. It takes a lot of skill and knowledge of the game to make a strong build and many times you're rewarded by it on the battlefield. You're also rewarded by lifting builds off YouTube streamers for all the lazy people out there.

    Yes. It also turns out that the reason we have a narrow meta in ESO is that particular builds completely outclass any other build. It's not just an advantage, it's a chasm.
    Kahina wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    I have no doubt it helps people, but your claim was that gear and skill don't have as much to do with victories as ping.

    You've done nothing to counter that claim. Mostly because you can't. There are no counter claims that stand up to scrutiny. I've been watching these same debates occur since the days of Quake Team Fortress.

    It does more than just help people. The average human reaction time is a little over 200ms. The best are around 100ms. That right there is the skill level difference. 100ms, best to average. Let's leave below average out of it.

    With 100ms - 300ms difference (latency) between players before we allow reaction times to influence things, there is no skill difference that can be shown to be the major influence on outcomes. People are playing from all over the world on two servers. This is what latency equalization in an online game works around.

    Anyone can match the best gear sets given the time to farm them. Anyone can rote practice until near perfect. Latency however, especially in a game without equalization, you are stuck with.

    You've done nothing to counter my claim.

    I have that rare knowledge that comes from being on different networks at different times.

    ZoS does a good job covering up latency by smoothing what we see on the client side. However, if you truly want to see how big a difference it is, try lock picking on a low latency connection and then induce an additional 100ms of latency and try it again. Master locks are easy peasy without significant latency, simple locks become a pain even with only 100ms added.

    PvP is no different. It's difficult to tell that you are suffering from latency due to the client side smoothing, but the difference in performance is huge.

    As an aside, folks that want to be competitive should spend a couple hundred dollars and get a decent monitor. I was having issues that I couldn't fix by switching to fiber or upgrading every single competent of my rig, to the point of buying commercial M.2 drives. By pure luck I came across a forum post that said certain revs of the gaming monitor I was using had a firmware issue. My KB:death ration shot through the roof simply by getting a new monitor... Man, the money I could have saved.
    DeHei wrote: »
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.

    is not true... its more like this:
    Biro123 wrote: »
    PVP is hard, and has a very steep learning curve.

    First you need to learn how to make damage with animationcancelling! This is nearly the most important thing in this game, but also difficult to learn. So best you can do to learn how to make a good DPS at a dummie first. Look some tuturials from experienced players and try it.
    After learning it or while learning it you should also have an idea how you want to play. I needed 2 years to create a successful non-META build just for Templar. So its not just join the game and playing successful... you really need to learn much before...

    Thanks for the laugh. Animation cancelling is not hard, it does take muscle memorization so that you can perform it reflexively (without thinking about it), but that is conditioning and not an aspect of skill. Most serious PvE'rs can animation cancel in their sleep. The only aspect that PvErs have to adjust to is the fact that animation canceling in PvP is not about dps. In PvE, 40k sustained dps is good, in PvP less than 10k dps can be fine. The primary reason for animation canceling in PvP is to prevent skill from being a factor.

    And of course, if you search around on the forums, you can find out how to macro so that not only are you able to perform canceling without needing any conditioning, but so that you can also become largely immune to lag induced failures... If you ever run across someone jumping rock to rock while targeting you over their shoulder and landing perfect burst rotations, yeah, it's not possible without a macro or being a mutant with an extra arm.

  • Doctordarkspawn
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    mb10 wrote: »
    L2p issues. PVP is the best thing about the game

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • zaria
    zaria
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    Kahina wrote: »
    Have you ever played a game with latency equalization? Not a lot of games have it. It's rather rare. It changes much, as one would expect it to. If it was all skill (or gear), it would change nothing.

    Now excuse my while I go back to my 350ms ping ESO gaming.
    How does that work? adding an delay on players with fast connection?
    ESO is very sensitive to ping / delays. Far more like an twitch shooter than an traditional MMO like WOW.
    Part of the reason why it work as it did was to make it less sensitive to lag.

    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Judas Helviaryn
    Judas Helviaryn
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.

    Theorycrafting/picking the right gear for a decent build that synergies well with mechanics (aka the right gear for the right job) is a part of this thing you call skill......And who da hell plays the game to show of their "skills" (which is a subjective thing btw) anyway???

    Pretty much this.. Cookie cutters and copy cats will always underperform. Making your own build is part of the process.
  • Cadbury
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    Where does Miats add-on factor into this?
    "If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."
  • Tasear
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    Sixty5 wrote: »
    Warden class is godly in PVP.

    Wardens lack in PVE because they are a jack of all trades. They have interesting buffs and passives, but mostly they end up being redundant in a group. However in PVP you don't have a healer giving you combat prayer or someone spamming heals at you. This means that the Wardens kit starts to really shine, given how many different buffs and skills they have access to.

    Also undodgeable Bird spam, major heroism and non-ult reliant burst on a 3 second cooldown.


    As far as skill in PVP goes, there is definitely a skill floor, where if you don't have a minimum level of knowledge you will just get dumpstered over and over again, regardless of your build. On the other hand after that things become a bit less defined. I can tell if someone is better or worse than me a lot of the time, but there are plenty of cases where one build will counter another to the point of the less skilled player easily winning.

    Vhof or vAS that free Purge...Idk a full party of Wardens you might get your millions if gold polymorph easier or shinny skins
    Famous Healer, Loving Guild Master, Support Theory Crater
    Former Class Representative, & Former Community Ambassador
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  • thedude33
    thedude33
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    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.

    Other way around imo. There is always BIS gear, but that usually isn't that much better than others gear. When I see posts that say X gear produces 1.1 % more damage than Y gear then I know the spread isn't terrible.

    I could have BIS and fight someone with starter gear. They would win.

    This game is more about skill than gear. Not even close.

    Pretty common though when someone loses a fight to blame it on anything but themselves. Human nature. Embrace your inner potato lifestyle like I do.
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • thedude33
    thedude33
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Kahina wrote: »
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    Gear is one thing, knowing how to use that gear and your skills to their best whilst using LoS to control fights is a lot of what PvP is about, all of which is player skill.

    It's about having the better ping. It's rarely about anything more. Be a real community ambassador and campaign for latency equalization to be built into the server and client. Then let's talk.
    So what you're saying is people in Germany and Texas always win regardless of anything else?

    Don't mess with Texas....and women wearing a Dirndl in Germany are a big win also
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • Smasherx74
    Smasherx74
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.
    If this was true then every BiS newbie would be storming Cyrodiil as a 1vX hero.

    Gear is one thing, knowing how to use that gear and your skills to their best whilst using LoS to control fights is a lot of what PvP is about, all of which is player skill.

    I didn't know running around a tree spamming vigor was considered skill.

    I guess the standards in ESO are just extremely low.
    Master Debater
  • Smasherx74
    Smasherx74
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    Daus wrote: »
    @Smasherx74 I'm not disagreeing that gear is way too influential in PvP, but it's not to the degree you're suggesting. I've killed a lot of 660s fully spec'd while being naked before. Were these players trash? Oh most definitely, the skill difference was astronomical. But that's the point I'm trying to drive home. There is a lot of skill involved with PvP, but gear is extremely influential on your success.

    With that said, there are abilities that take away skill from PvP, and those are ones that remove counterplay. In those specific instances the success of that skill is 100% gear dependant.

    Ever thought maybe those players were just lagging so much they couldn't do anything?
    Master Debater
  • Drakkdjinn
    Drakkdjinn
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    Tru, PvP is not PvEasy

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  • Turelus
    Turelus
    Community Ambassador
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.
    If this was true then every BiS newbie would be storming Cyrodiil as a 1vX hero.

    Gear is one thing, knowing how to use that gear and your skills to their best whilst using LoS to control fights is a lot of what PvP is about, all of which is player skill.

    I didn't know running around a tree spamming vigor was considered skill.

    I guess the standards in ESO are just extremely low.
    More skill than running headfirst into 20 people, dying then screaming on the forums that ZOS doesn't nerf zergs.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
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  • Daus
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    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    @Smasherx74 I'm not disagreeing that gear is way too influential in PvP, but it's not to the degree you're suggesting. I've killed a lot of 660s fully spec'd while being naked before. Were these players trash? Oh most definitely, the skill difference was astronomical. But that's the point I'm trying to drive home. There is a lot of skill involved with PvP, but gear is extremely influential on your success.

    With that said, there are abilities that take away skill from PvP, and those are ones that remove counterplay. In those specific instances the success of that skill is 100% gear dependant.

    Ever thought maybe those players were just lagging so much they couldn't do anything?

    Nope. On console everyone has the same hardware, and dueling isn't as laggy as Cyrodiil a lot of the times.
  • Rainraven
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.
    If this was true then every BiS newbie would be storming Cyrodiil as a 1vX hero.

    Gear is one thing, knowing how to use that gear and your skills to their best whilst using LoS to control fights is a lot of what PvP is about, all of which is player skill.

    I didn't know running around a tree spamming vigor was considered skill.

    I guess the standards in ESO are just extremely low.
    More skill than running headfirst into 20 people, dying then screaming on the forums that ZOS doesn't nerf zergs.

    That's... a really low bar. :D
  • Smasherx74
    Smasherx74
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    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.

    Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.

    Defeatist mentality. I’ll at least agree gear matters more in this game than most others I have played but you could put some in BIS gear that has no skill and a really good player in crap gear and the better player will still win. The day everyone starts blaming gear sets on why they die is the day they should maybe reassess their own skills. Not saying you’re bad as I don’t know you and won’t judge, but I see others wit this mentality too and there is a common theme.
    PvP sucks! I have never liked PvP and hate the fact that game developers cater to them that do.

    I know right? All this PvP content over the last three years is just way too much! I wish there would be PvE oriented DLC for once! *end sarcasm*

    If you wear *** gear in PVP, even a noob can destroy you if they got really good gear. A noob in 5fps spamming biting jabs and jesus beam will absolutely murder you every time. Why? Because you literally can't kill them. That noob could be the worst player in the game, and all he has to do is spam 2 abilities. One damage and one heals. If you're really playing in *** gear and he realy has good gear, he's just going to destroy you every time no matter how much you run or how good your movement is.

    This si why I compared this game to Archeage. In that game the people with best gear have played / grinded for years or paid thousands of dollars for the character. Starting off as a noob in AA you will never get even close to top GS. You'll literally be grinding every single day just to get a little bit better GS, and then after about 3-5 years you might have a high GS relative to the top. Now you can get 3k gs (about the minimum required for end game) and play absolutely *** PERFECT but if your enemy has 8k gs, they will literally 2 shot you or just stand there while you do tons of damage and they haven't even lost a % of health.

    You know what other game is like that? ESO.... I can go duel someone right now and even if they're a GOOD if their gear isn't good enough I can just stand there typing in chat about how they suck, while I just throw some buffs and vigor myself every once in a while. That player can be a former emp and still get his ass handed to him without me having to play skillful at all. As long as I got better gear for the situation (like dueling) I will always win.
    Master Debater
  • zyk
    zyk
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    Nahtal wrote: »
    Like to play PVP but always as healer (not good with tank and DPS) trying to play with it, but suck at it. Main story now playing with Warden class (also as healer) still think this class can be improved. Seems also in dungeons with warden class healing feels like buggy (any experience that?)

    They tell warden class is not good when want play PVP with it. Any thoughts on that?

    Warden is a very strong PVP class. Many credible players would call it OP.

    The problem is that ESO has no mechanisms to right-size competition like many other online games and all organized sports do. No one would start playing basketball, for example, if they were getting destroyed by NBA players every time they played.

    In ESO PVP, new/inexperienced/casual players rarely have an opportunity to consistently find and fight each other.

    Furthermore, the scoring system in ESO AvA encourages the best and most organized players to seek out the easiest kills for the best rewards.

    Edited by zyk on October 25, 2017 7:19PM
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