Some healing sets need some TLC - Opinion

ToRelax

heystreethawk wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

SiliconShadow wrote: »

Notworthy mentions:
Dreamers mantle - Nice in PvP but low proc chance, could also become overpowered if buffed, has no use in PVE

This set is not nice in PvP. It gives you, what, a free breath of life every half minute, on the condition that someone gets you into execute range? I would equip this on someone else's character, while they were in the bathroom, as a prank.

It's one of several lifesaver sets. This one is one has one of the weaker effects, though still a CC, unlike what you said. It competes due to it's comparatively low cooldown.

(5 items) When you take damage while you are under 35% Health, you knockdown all enemies within 4 meters of you for 2 seconds and heal for 7000 Health. This effect can occur once every 20 seconds.

It is both a CC and what I said. That's 3500 health after battle spirit, which is a nothing heal, and a knockdown dependent on the people around you not having CC immunity when it goes off, once every 20 seconds, if you are close to being dead. That is saving nobody's life.

The cc is a crucial point, you were distorting the facts by leaving it out entirely. 3500 is the heal before any healing modifiers. It consumes neither a global cooldown nor resources but grants you another chance, mostly against melee attackers. When you are unable to use the opportunity, you are dead. Otherwise you only have to stay alive for another 20 seconds to activate it again.
The drawback doesn't lie so much in that the effect is weak as that you have to give up a sustain or damage set for it. As is the case with all other similar sets as well.

mocap wrote: »

I still run old-school TBS set ) Ritual + Atronach enough for me to sustain BoL like infinite, otherwise i prefer to help my group with humble 15-20K DPS, glad Magplar can do both things.

Anyway, current healing sets are all junk, not worth to farm, even SPC and Worm.

Well, that is obviously inferior to Amberplasm with Ritual mundus stone.

SiliconShadow

heystreethawk wrote: »

Your observations about the limited practicality of most healing sets in PvE is worth consideration, but I do not think you understand how things work in PvP -- you completely dismiss the most ubiquitous PvP healer set, and don't even mention Earthgore. I recommend narrowing your focus.

Let me clarify then: Transmutation is trash since Morrowind, completely outperformed by other combinations. The amount of damage you are reducing from the maximum has come down drastically meaning every % reduction is worth a lot less than it use to be. Coupled with the low value the buff gives and for 20 seconds. While it used to reduce a large amount, around 17.5% this 17.5% now is worth much less, and couple that it doesn't take the person over the cap the 17.5% was always reduced to more like 12% at best. Now with everything into consideration this effective value is more around the 6% mark, which I reiterate makes it a considerably less viable set and even trash as there are far better options.

Trinimacs valor was answered by someone else.

Earthgore, is okay, it can save your life and it is "Interesting" in pve it's okay for a tank in some fights, in pvp it's a nice set for most classes as an alternative for Troll Kings.

Jaimeh

A set that wasn't mentioned that I'm recently enjoying using on my healer in PvP is Meritorious Service; the buff can be applied to more than four group members with multiple casts, and lasts for 2 minutes, and with the amount of purging I do, it's basically active all the time

Lexxypwns

heystreethawk wrote: »

SiliconShadow wrote: »

Notworthy mentions:
Dreamers mantle - Nice in PvP but low proc chance, could also become overpowered if buffed, has no use in PVE

This set is not nice in PvP. It gives you, what, a free breath of life every half minute, on the condition that someone gets you into execute range? I would equip this on someone else's character, while they were in the bathroom, as a prank.

Transmutation - Basically useless in most cases, but you can build a battlegrounds around it, has no use in PVE

This is almost unequivocally the most important healing set available for group PvP. The only scenario in which I would run a group without Transmutation is if my guild time traveled back to the prehistoric era; I do not believe cavemen can crit.

Trinimacs Valor - Nice niche PvP set, has no use in PVE

This is not a nice niche PvP set; this is a set you could technically make a build around, but you would probably only do that if someone publicly dared you to, and there was also either a consequential amount of money on the line, or you had to wear the set in order to prevent a local orphanage from closing down. You would wear it, begrudgingly, to save the lives of multiple orphans.


Your observations about the limited practicality of most healing sets in PvE is worth consideration, but I do not think you understand how things work in PvP -- you completely dismiss the most ubiquitous PvP healer set, and don't even mention Earthgore. I recommend narrowing your focus.

Also, that *** Dreamer's heal can't crit so it equals ~175 healing per second assuming it procs on cooldown and it's not enough of a burst heal to keep you alive.

heystreethawk

SiliconShadow wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

Your observations about the limited practicality of most healing sets in PvE is worth consideration, but I do not think you understand how things work in PvP -- you completely dismiss the most ubiquitous PvP healer set, and don't even mention Earthgore. I recommend narrowing your focus.

Let me clarify then: Transmutation is trash since Morrowind, completely outperformed by other combinations. The amount of damage you are reducing from the maximum has come down drastically meaning every % reduction is worth a lot less than it use to be. Coupled with the low value the buff gives and for 20 seconds. While it used to reduce a large amount, around 17.5% this 17.5% now is worth much less, and couple that it doesn't take the person over the cap the 17.5% was always reduced to more like 12% at best. Now with everything into consideration this effective value is more around the 6% mark, which I reiterate makes it a considerably less viable set and even trash as there are far better options.

Trinimacs valor was answered by someone else.

Earthgore, is okay, it can save your life and it is "Interesting" in pve it's okay for a tank in some fights, in pvp it's a nice set for most classes as an alternative for Troll Kings.

What exactly do you believe changed since Morrowind to render Transmutation ineffective? A slight decrease in the Shadow Mundus, which I guess diminished the amount of critical damage dealt by the bombers who used that stone? The introduction of Impregnable as an alternative set? Where are you getting this "12%/6%" idea from, exactly? You aim for 1900/2000 crit resistance, and then Transmutation takes you to the cap. It's been that way for a while.

Earthgore is not "okay" -- it's a reliable lineup of instant counter-negates that has radically altered group play in Cyrodiil. I think it's a ridiculous set, I think it's bad for the game, and I wish it wasn't as effective, but there is nothing in the game that defines the current group meta moreso than Earthgore. I don't know if you are a solo player, a battlegrounds person, or what the deal is here, but what you're saying doesn't match up to the reality of Cyrodiil.

DoonerSeraph

I actually like to play around with SPC and PA (Powerful Assault) on a warden with Lord... erm... Warden monster set. My heals are a bit weaker, but I can raise my guildies spell, weapon damage and resistances to some ludicrous levels

TheDoomsdayMonster

Capsaica wrote: »

SiliconShadow wrote: »

The following four could be useful PVE sets with a little TLC

Combat physician - Extremely low proc rate, near useless. During testing this shield had a 3~6% uptime during fights over 1 minute long.

I am curious how you tested this set? I have found that the shield activates nearly every time on cooldown. The set does not operate on a proc rate. If you critically heal a friendly target, that target will get a shield every 6 seconds. This can affect every friendly target it hits with a cooldown of 6 seconds per target. I do not know if there is a target limit.

Your friendly target must have taken damage for this set to function. The shield will not activate on a friendly target at full health. Transmutation works this way as well.

Your critical chance is important for this set to function. If you have a low crit rate, then you will not get shields as often

100% agreed...

During long fights, I am able to proc the damage shield the moment the cool down is over (assuming that I am not at full health at that time of course)...

Heck, certain DPS abilities proc the damage shield, so I can get it even when I am going full blast on offense (for example, Structured Entropy can proc the damage shield, and can potentially do so during second 1, 7, and 13...with my Spell Crit of 63% I will get it roughly 2 out of 3 times on average for a single cast of this ability)...

And as you correctly pointed out, you gotta run with a high Spell Crit to get this set to perform to its potential; use stacking HoT's and get your Spell Crit to 60+% and this set will do its job very very well...


Some people say that the damage shield is small (8k+ in PvE/4k+ in PvP), but they are thinking about what it provides in a single 6 sec instance...

Over the course of a minute (with a proper build) you can proc the damage shield 10 times for a total damage negation of 41000+ in a PvP environment (or around 82k in PvE)...

That's nothing to sneeze at...


I can tell you that I can proc Combat Physician more frequently that Skoria with ease (and cause Combat Physician to negate more damage to a single target than Skoria will deliver to a single target in an equal time span) and people love Skoria and hate Combat Physician...

Go figure...

SmellyUnlimited

SiliconShadow wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

it is not a proc, ...

Nope. It doesn't just mean programmed random occurrence, it can also mean procedure or process, or procedure. The term groups all together.

In this case it means that there has to be an input to produce an output. Even if it is an 100% chance of occurrence. This processing we call a procedure or a function.

If you want to know more why not attend one of my many lectures around the world on programming, I'm sure you can get to one. I mainly speak about performance and security in Enterprise programming and designing best practices for Microsoft Office related development, but I don't mind getting out a white board for you.

Just in case you want to question or argue the above my credentials (BSc Comp Science and Diploma Games dev) are below, thanks for listening.

https://twitter.com/HughAJWood - https://www.linkedin.com/in/hugh-wood-6b74b458/

Never seen someone so blowhardy off a simple non-inflammatory comment. If you’re as snide and self-aggranding in your seminars, I’m sure they’re a blast!


Back to an actual cogent discussion:

SPC has been healer BIS since Imperial City. That isn’t the way it should be. Healing has become - two trials healers (SPC/Worm) (SPC/Mending). Dungeons can be slightly more varied, but not by much (referring to new DLC dungeons, not junk vanilla ones where you can heal naked and do just as well).

Perhaps in another 7-8 expansions we’ll see some variation.

Urza1234

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

::sigh:: This thread is a bad idea. Now ZOS is going to nerf SPC and Mending. You see, that'll create more "interesting choices"...

I would be ok with that.

I agree with the "buffs not nerfs" crowd here though, most of the healing sets would still be bad even if SPC were deleted from the game.

However, im also not foolish enough to believe that the meta crowd would drop SPC for any reason, because then their DPS's epeens would shrink by 0.5%, and that would be unacceptable.