Some healing sets need some TLC - Opinion

SiliconShadow · October 2017

The following four could be useful PVE sets with a little TLC

Combat physician - Extremely low proc rate, near useless. During testing this shield had a 3~6% uptime during fights over 1 minute long.

Gossamer - Again very low proc chance when coupled with the reduction in dodge chance. This was coming out at around 5~16% per player, meaning the reduction offered was far less than competing sets for the spot.

Twlight remedy - Can only realistically affect one person at a time, most of the time it will be the tank, and he really needs that 10% crit damage buff...

Sanctuary - Situational at best, the way the healing increase stacks means that mending (Preventative damage) is far superior

These sets are just pretty much useless

Healers Habit - Not even worth looking at, minor mending is easily obtained and or just not a priority for content

Almalexia's Mercy - Okay for PvP, but the premise if buffed can be far overpowered, needs some rework

Stendarr's embrace - Quite a niche utility set, the cooldown however is far too large

Redistributer - Very weak heal, would be better to heal 6 targets dividing up the heal that hit you, this would make it a viable pvp set for battle grounds

Monster sets - No monster set is worth taking over any of the top 3 sets below for any reason what so ever, thus only serving as a crutch to until you get those 3 sets.

Healers don't have enough real choice, the top 3 below are all that 99% will run for a very long time now.

At the moment the viable sets are:
#1 Spell Power Cure - Must have set for all healers
#2 Mending - This for me has crept into #2 giving a large damage reduction when needed
#3 Worm Cult - Must have for magicka heavy groups
#4 Kagrenacs - If you presume you have deaths this is a requirement coupled with lights champion for a safe fast res
#5 Eyes of mara - If you really need that springs spam and full power, this is your bad boy

Notworthy mentions:
Dreamers mantle - Nice in PvP but low proc chance, could also become overpowered if buffed, has no use in PVE
Transmutation - Basically useless in most cases, but you can build a battlegrounds around it, has no use in PVE
Trinimacs Valor - Nice niche PvP set, has no use in PVE

ToRelax · October 2017

Dreamer's Mantle has a proc chance?

Zer0oo · October 2017

A few sets that are also good on a healer:

Infallible Aether (still a must on the first 2 bosses of vAA)
Master Architect

From all the monster sets maybe one is worth mentioning since it actually can help your gpr with sustain:
Sentinel of Rkugamz

Asardes · October 2017

Zer0oo wrote: »

A few sets that are also good on a healer:

Infallible Aether (still a must on the first 2 bosses of vAA)
Master Architect

From all the monster sets maybe one is worth mentioning since it actually can help your gpr with sustain:
Sentinel of Rkugamz

A magicka sorcerer or any other class that does heavy attacks (all, basically after Morrowind) can slot that without sacrificing DPS, so I don't see why the healer would.

SiliconShadow · October 2017

ToRelax wrote: »

Dreamer's Mantle has a proc chance?

I meant proc rate, not chance, every 20s is a little too low to make it very useful, there are better options to do the same job.

As @asardes stated I didn't even mention infallible since you can use a sorc to slot it, there are just 3 better options to everything at the moment. More dmg, more sustain and less damage.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2017

ToRelax wrote: »

Dreamer's Mantle has a proc chance?

there is no proc on that set, people just use the word wrong all the time. it is one of my biggest triggers. "PROC" is short for Programmed Random OCcurance, Dreamer's Mantle is a conditional set with a cool down, if your health is lower then 35% you get a knockback and a heal, nothing chance based about it.

SiliconShadow wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dreamer's Mantle has a proc chance?

I meant proc rate, not chance, every 20s is a little too low to make it very useful, there are better options to do the same job.

As @asardes stated I didn't even mention infallible since you can use a sorc to slot it, there are just 3 better options to everything at the moment. More dmg, more sustain and less damage.

it is not a proc, so saying "proc rate" means nothing. you mean the cool down is too long, this is true, like most of the cool downs on healing based sets are in the game.

beyond aforementioned semantics, i agree with the heart of the thread, i want more interesting choices when healing, right now, it is quite limited.

Firstmep · October 2017

I didnt see earthgore mentioned its really strong in pvp, can be an absolute lifesaver.

SirMewser · October 2017

These sets are not of the interest of ZOS this PTS, because of that, ZoS will probably not change anything said here till maybe in Q1 or Q2?

I would like to see Trinimac's Valor improved for PvE because it was once better on DK and Sorc prior to nerfing it to 20% chance on casting a shield ability on an ally from 20% chance per damage shield created on allies.
Not to say revert the change, but it was never a good option on anything that wasn't DK and Sorc to begin with...

iam117 · October 2017

i personally have found good use out of lightspeaker on nightblade healer, and trinimacs on dk as 2nd sets to spc. we could really use a good healing monster set in general

RandomName123 · October 2017

I agree, but you might as well talk about it to a brick wall. Way more responsive.

Gnortranermara · October 2017

::sigh:: This thread is a bad idea. Now ZOS is going to nerf SPC and Mending. You see, that'll create more "interesting choices"...

Joy_Division · October 2017

Sets that are +Healing are pretty much dead on arrival for healers in PvE. I do just fine healing my group without them. They are just overkill.

There's a reason why SPC is considered standard issue for healers, even though it does't actually offer any healing.

Xvorg · October 2017

Almalexia with the new agony seems nice. Combined with Dessert Rose even better... throw argonian in the equation and you'll have the full package.

Other options include HA sets like imperium, Leeching, Livewire...

MehrunesFlagon · October 2017

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

::sigh:: This thread is a bad idea. Now ZOS is going to nerf SPC and Mending. You see, that'll create more "interesting choices"...

just use them and shut up

Tannus15 · October 2017

All trial healing sets other than mending need a serious looking at.
they should be better than they are.

All trial tanking sets are trash. All of them.

Zer0oo · October 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

All trial tanking sets are trash. All of them.

Almost all dd sets from trials are better tanking sets than the actual tank sets.

Urza1234 · October 2017

Yeah I've been seeing a lot of complaints that healers arent having to work very hard in PvE.

SiliconShadow · October 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

it is not a proc, ...

Nope. It doesn't just mean programmed random occurrence, it can also mean procedure or process, or procedure. The term groups all together.

In this case it means that there has to be an input to produce an output. Even if it is an 100% chance of occurrence. This processing we call a procedure or a function.

If you want to know more why not attend one of my many lectures around the world on programming, I'm sure you can get to one. I mainly speak about performance and security in Enterprise programming and designing best practices for Microsoft Office related development, but I don't mind getting out a white board for you.

Just in case you want to question or argue the above my credentials (BSc Comp Science and Diploma Games dev) are below, thanks for listening.

https://twitter.com/HughAJWood - https://www.linkedin.com/in/hugh-wood-6b74b458/

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2017

SiliconShadow wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

it is not a proc, ...

Nope. It doesn't just mean programmed random occurrence, it can also mean procedure or process, or procedure. The term groups all together.

In this case it means that there has to be an input to produce an output. Even if it is an 100% chance of occurrence. This processing we call a procedure or a function.

If you want to know more why not attend one of my many lectures around the world on programming, I'm sure you can get to one. I mainly speak about performance and security in Enterprise programming and designing best practices for Microsoft Office related development, but I don't mind getting out a white board for you.

Just in case you want to question or argue the above my credentials (BSc Comp Science and Diploma Games dev) are below, thanks for listening.

https://twitter.com/HughAJWood - https://www.linkedin.com/in/hugh-wood-6b74b458/

you are cute. nice resume but you are focusing on the wrong part of the acronym, the important part is the "R", ie "random" there is nothing random about the set in question. if you get below 35% health, you get a heal, everytime, as long as the cool down is up. nothing random about that.

this https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-proc-2483498 is a good website explaining the term, it actually explains what i think you were trying to explain but you come off as an self selling plug machine.

lol at your twitter account name too, huge wood.

Capsaica · October 2017

SiliconShadow wrote: »

The following four could be useful PVE sets with a little TLC

Combat physician - Extremely low proc rate, near useless. During testing this shield had a 3~6% uptime during fights over 1 minute long.

I am curious how you tested this set? I have found that the shield activates nearly every time on cooldown. The set does not operate on a proc rate. If you critically heal a friendly target, that target will get a shield every 6 seconds. This can affect every friendly target it hits with a cooldown of 6 seconds per target. I do not know if there is a target limit.

Your friendly target must have taken damage for this set to function. The shield will not activate on a friendly target at full health. Transmutation works this way as well.

Your critical chance is important for this set to function. If you have a low crit rate, then you will not get shields as often.

That, of course, does not mean that this set is the best out there, but it is certainly better than many. In normal damage scenarios such as dungeons and even in PvP, it has value. For trials where the amount of incoming damage can be huge, the shields will get eaten up quickly. Mending will probably outperform this set significantly. On the other hand, it is sure nice to give your stam builds some shielding.

Lexxypwns · October 2017

You can make gossamer work in small group pvp, but only front bar on a destro/resto mageblade where you're spammable is proc'ing it. And then its only worth slotting if your group has trans, riposte, and SPC covered, which is unlikely.

Also, for pvp you should run BS/Troll(small group) or Earthgore(large group) on your healers.

Calling trans "basically useless" is a joke. Its a consideration for BiS on a lot of solo/small scale PVP builds and has use in large scale. Its one of the best PVP sets in the game since it has a very long proc with a very simple requirement and on some builds it will add all the additional sustain you need, meaning you can back bar the 5th piece and front bar a 5pc damage set on a double staff build. Or back bar the 4th and 5th pieces on SnB with a masters/malestrom resto/destro and another full 5pc on body.

Xvorg · October 2017

Capsaica wrote: »

SiliconShadow wrote: »

The following four could be useful PVE sets with a little TLC

Combat physician - Extremely low proc rate, near useless. During testing this shield had a 3~6% uptime during fights over 1 minute long.

I am curious how you tested this set? I have found that the shield activates nearly every time on cooldown. The set does not operate on a proc rate. If you critically heal a friendly target, that target will get a shield every 6 seconds. This can affect every friendly target it hits with a cooldown of 6 seconds per target. I do not know if there is a target limit.

Your friendly target must have taken damage for this set to function. The shield will not activate on a friendly target at full health. Transmutation works this way as well.

Your critical chance is important for this set to function. If you have a low crit rate, then you will not get shields as often.

That, of course, does not mean that this set is the best out there, but it is certainly better than many. In normal damage scenarios such as dungeons and even in PvP, it has value. For trials where the amount of incoming damage can be huge, the shields will get eaten up quickly. Mending will probably outperform this set significantly. On the other hand, it is sure nice to give your stam builds some shielding.

One bubble each 6 secs makes it weak. It could be a nice combo with trinimacs if the shield granted procs trinimac, but it doesn't. A shorter CD would make it viable

Asardes · October 2017

Capsaica wrote: »

Your friendly target must have taken damage for this set to function. The shield will not activate on a friendly target at full health. Transmutation works this way as well.

That's actually the trouble with Gossamer and Combat Physician: they only activate if you actually heal damage. If you heal at full health they don't proc. Changing that would suffice to make them viable. In PvE often the damage is one shot so that shield or dodge can be a lifesaver.

Capsaica · October 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

Capsaica wrote: »

SiliconShadow wrote: »

The following four could be useful PVE sets with a little TLC

Combat physician - Extremely low proc rate, near useless. During testing this shield had a 3~6% uptime during fights over 1 minute long.

I am curious how you tested this set? I have found that the shield activates nearly every time on cooldown. The set does not operate on a proc rate. If you critically heal a friendly target, that target will get a shield every 6 seconds. This can affect every friendly target it hits with a cooldown of 6 seconds per target. I do not know if there is a target limit.

Your friendly target must have taken damage for this set to function. The shield will not activate on a friendly target at full health. Transmutation works this way as well.

Your critical chance is important for this set to function. If you have a low crit rate, then you will not get shields as often.

That, of course, does not mean that this set is the best out there, but it is certainly better than many. In normal damage scenarios such as dungeons and even in PvP, it has value. For trials where the amount of incoming damage can be huge, the shields will get eaten up quickly. Mending will probably outperform this set significantly. On the other hand, it is sure nice to give your stam builds some shielding.

One bubble each 6 secs makes it weak. It could be a nice combo with trinimacs if the shield granted procs trinimac, but it doesn't. A shorter CD would make it viable

You are correct, procs do not proc procs.

I would argue, however, that 1 decent size shield every 6s per person is pretty solid. I wouldn't run it for trials, but for most other content it is ok. Not BiS, of course, but not trash.

Capsaica · October 2017

Asardes wrote: »

Capsaica wrote: »

Your friendly target must have taken damage for this set to function. The shield will not activate on a friendly target at full health. Transmutation works this way as well.

That's actually the trouble with Gossamer and Combat Physician: they only activate if you actually heal damage. If you heal at full health they don't proc. Changing that would suffice to make them viable. In PvE often the damage is one shot so that shield or dodge can be a lifesaver.

Good point, however, keeping a HoT going on your group will activate Combat Phys. the moment they take damage. If it is one-shot damage, it is not going to help. But for everything else, its not bad. As I mentioned, certainly not a trials set, but not trash either, IMO.

Xvorg · October 2017

Capsaica wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Capsaica wrote: »

SiliconShadow wrote: »

The following four could be useful PVE sets with a little TLC

Combat physician - Extremely low proc rate, near useless. During testing this shield had a 3~6% uptime during fights over 1 minute long.

I am curious how you tested this set? I have found that the shield activates nearly every time on cooldown. The set does not operate on a proc rate. If you critically heal a friendly target, that target will get a shield every 6 seconds. This can affect every friendly target it hits with a cooldown of 6 seconds per target. I do not know if there is a target limit.

Your friendly target must have taken damage for this set to function. The shield will not activate on a friendly target at full health. Transmutation works this way as well.

Your critical chance is important for this set to function. If you have a low crit rate, then you will not get shields as often.

That, of course, does not mean that this set is the best out there, but it is certainly better than many. In normal damage scenarios such as dungeons and even in PvP, it has value. For trials where the amount of incoming damage can be huge, the shields will get eaten up quickly. Mending will probably outperform this set significantly. On the other hand, it is sure nice to give your stam builds some shielding.

One bubble each 6 secs makes it weak. It could be a nice combo with trinimacs if the shield granted procs trinimac, but it doesn't. A shorter CD would make it viable

You are correct, procs do not proc procs.
I would argue, however, that 1 decent size shield every 6s per person is pretty solid. I wouldn't run it for trials, but for most other content it is ok. Not BiS, of course, but not trash.

Depends on the proc. CP procs health regen in Permafrost

Capsaica · October 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

Capsaica wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Capsaica wrote: »

SiliconShadow wrote: »

The following four could be useful PVE sets with a little TLC

Combat physician - Extremely low proc rate, near useless. During testing this shield had a 3~6% uptime during fights over 1 minute long.

I am curious how you tested this set? I have found that the shield activates nearly every time on cooldown. The set does not operate on a proc rate. If you critically heal a friendly target, that target will get a shield every 6 seconds. This can affect every friendly target it hits with a cooldown of 6 seconds per target. I do not know if there is a target limit.

Your friendly target must have taken damage for this set to function. The shield will not activate on a friendly target at full health. Transmutation works this way as well.

Your critical chance is important for this set to function. If you have a low crit rate, then you will not get shields as often.

That, of course, does not mean that this set is the best out there, but it is certainly better than many. In normal damage scenarios such as dungeons and even in PvP, it has value. For trials where the amount of incoming damage can be huge, the shields will get eaten up quickly. Mending will probably outperform this set significantly. On the other hand, it is sure nice to give your stam builds some shielding.

One bubble each 6 secs makes it weak. It could be a nice combo with trinimacs if the shield granted procs trinimac, but it doesn't. A shorter CD would make it viable

You are correct, procs do not proc procs.
I would argue, however, that 1 decent size shield every 6s per person is pretty solid. I wouldn't run it for trials, but for most other content it is ok. Not BiS, of course, but not trash.

Depends on the proc. CP procs health regen in Permafrost

Bah! ZoS logic.

heystreethawk · October 2017

SiliconShadow wrote: »

Notworthy mentions:
Dreamers mantle - Nice in PvP but low proc chance, could also become overpowered if buffed, has no use in PVE

This set is not nice in PvP. It gives you, what, a free breath of life every half minute, on the condition that someone gets you into execute range? I would equip this on someone else's character, while they were in the bathroom, as a prank.

Transmutation - Basically useless in most cases, but you can build a battlegrounds around it, has no use in PVE

This is almost unequivocally the most important healing set available for group PvP. The only scenario in which I would run a group without Transmutation is if my guild time traveled back to the prehistoric era; I do not believe cavemen can crit.

Trinimacs Valor - Nice niche PvP set, has no use in PVE

This is not a nice niche PvP set; this is a set you could technically make a build around, but you would probably only do that if someone publicly dared you to, and there was also either a consequential amount of money on the line, or you had to wear the set in order to prevent a local orphanage from closing down. You would wear it, begrudgingly, to save the lives of multiple orphans.

Your observations about the limited practicality of most healing sets in PvE is worth consideration, but I do not think you understand how things work in PvP -- you completely dismiss the most ubiquitous PvP healer set, and don't even mention Earthgore. I recommend narrowing your focus.

ToRelax · October 2017

heystreethawk wrote: »

SiliconShadow wrote: »

Notworthy mentions:
Dreamers mantle - Nice in PvP but low proc chance, could also become overpowered if buffed, has no use in PVE

This set is not nice in PvP. It gives you, what, a free breath of life every half minute, on the condition that someone gets you into execute range? I would equip this on someone else's character, while they were in the bathroom, as a prank.

It's one of several lifesaver sets. This one is one has one of the weaker effects, though still a CC, unlike what you said. It competes due to it's comparatively low cooldown.

heystreethawk · October 2017

ToRelax wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

SiliconShadow wrote: »

Notworthy mentions:
Dreamers mantle - Nice in PvP but low proc chance, could also become overpowered if buffed, has no use in PVE

This set is not nice in PvP. It gives you, what, a free breath of life every half minute, on the condition that someone gets you into execute range? I would equip this on someone else's character, while they were in the bathroom, as a prank.

It's one of several lifesaver sets. This one is one has one of the weaker effects, though still a CC, unlike what you said. It competes due to it's comparatively low cooldown.

(5 items) When you take damage while you are under 35% Health, you knockdown all enemies within 4 meters of you for 2 seconds and heal for 7000 Health. This effect can occur once every 20 seconds.

It is both a CC and what I said. That's 3500 health after battle spirit, which is a nothing heal, and a knockdown dependent on the people around you not having CC immunity when it goes off, once every 20 seconds, if you are close to being dead. That is saving nobody's life.

mocap · October 2017

I still run old-school TBS set ) Ritual + Atronach enough for me to sustain BoL like infinite, otherwise i prefer to help my group with humble 15-20K DPS, glad Magplar can do both things.

Anyway, current healing sets are all junk, not worth to farm, even SPC and Worm.