Change how block is calculated (how to fix the real perma block issue)

SanTii.92

There is no perma block issue. No idea why everyone seem to have such a hard on on this topic nowdays.

DeHei

This permablockguys block and reflect just direct damage skills and attacks. Everything like dots, aoe groundeffects or channeled attacks they cant block or reflect. If you really want to stop this permablockguys, more of you need to switch your builds if possible. I mean Templar, DKs and Warden can do here a really good job, because that is a perfect counter to them! When they arent successful anymore with permablock, they will change it finally!
If you dont know what i mean join my youtubechannel.

WrathOfInnos

I don't tank much, but I'm pretty sure permablocking is necessary in PVE. One example that comes to mind is the Mage's Axes in vAA. I've done this fight in groups with average DPS of about 20k, and you can easily get enough axes to attack 4 times per second. Dropping block results in getting stunned, losing aggro, and usually wiping the group. Higher block cost would effectively add a DPS check into the easiest vet trial, and I doubt this is the direction ZoS wants to take.

The need for permablocking is part of what is driving DK's to be the best tanks, since they can regain stamina more easily than other classes during block. If stamina regen continued while blocking, many other classes would be more viable for serious tanking in PVE. It seems like there should be a way to solve this for PVP only, if it truly is a problem there.

amasuriel

It's the insistence of fixing PvP issues with system wide changes. They should roll back the block time increase, since it was just an irritating nerf in PvE that prevents tanks from having as many utility options, and it wasn't enough in PvP.

Battle spirit is a mechanism is fix PvP issues without touching PvE, I don't know why they don't use it.

I wish they would stop making PvE tanking more boring to try (and fail) to fix blocking in PvP. I used to love being a tank, by far my favorite roll. Now that it's 99% about not wasting stamina, it's pretty dull.

krathos

amasuriel wrote: »

It's the insistence of fixing PvP issues with system wide changes. They should roll back the block time increase, since it was just an irritating nerf in PvE that prevents tanks from having as many utility options, and it wasn't enough in PvP.

Battle spirit is a mechanism is fix PvP issues without touching PvE, I don't know why they don't use it.

I wish they would stop making PvE tanking more boring to try (and fail) to fix blocking in PvP. I used to love being a tank, by far my favorite roll. Now that it's 99% about not wasting stamina, it's pretty dull.

@amasuriel i feel you. Every single aspect of this game has been watered down or even completely removed over the last 3.5 years. Tanking? as you said, watered down. DPS? Yay let's heavy attack... not. PvP? Let's try to protect new and bad players by introducing changes to make solo and small group harder every patch. Don't want to run in a large group/zerg? too bad! take the nerfs! Even the DLCs are watered down. Imagine if every DLC was as big and awesome as Wrothgar. Shiiiiiet Craglorn was FREE!

edit: actually, i'm wrong, not ALL aspects are watered down. The crown store is juicier than ever! zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Thogard

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

the whole blocking mechanic is crap imho. In other games shields (beside increasing your armor value, e.g. passive damage reduction) granted a more or less fixed percentage to block (and thus completely negate) 1 direct attack. Also it only worked in front of you in between 180 to 120 degrees in front that is (thus flanking and surprise attacks from behind were a thing). Also in this game the shield does not really add any decent utility (like the Guard skill, which was usually tied to the shield).

DAoC:
- frontal arc block chance depending on shield skill (up to 25%), dexterity and shield size. Shield skill would grant Guard and Intercept ability, also shield bashing attacks that could stun. No charge like abilities.
- in addition there was a parry skill (which did not grant you skills, but increased your parry chance by up to 25%)
- and there was a passive evade trait (granting 5-35% evade chance dependant on class / armor, e.g. assassins had the highest evasion)
- Also weapon types were more efficient versus different defences (2H, Dual Wield, 1H/S <-> Evasion, Parry, Block)
- also weaponskill could reduce the effective block chance
- if you were focusing on defense (say high Dexterity, Parry and Block) you would not be able to get a high weapon skill

Warhammer Online:
- shield only worked from the front, did only add a passive block chance and increased your armor
- you had guard and a very cool shield wall ability (which would reduce the damage of allies behind you as well as yourself, it had a cooldown and slowed you down a bit).
- in addition though you had collision detection. A tank could block enemies from getting past him, for instance in a keeps stairways.

WoW is pretty similar, but I think DAoC had a lot more depth in its combat system than ESO has in many aspects.

Basically block-casting should never have been allowed (animation canceling being part of the problem). If you have to actively block it should prevent you from using a skill or attack until you released the block. Additionally you should not be able to raise the block again before that attacks animation is complete (and also not be able to switch bars or cancel otherwise). The whole combat/animation system is flawed in this regard. Yes abusing it is a must at the moment for DPS, but it removes so many tactical choices from what could be a really interesting combat system.

Then the amount of damage block currently absorbs is too high. It beats every other form of mitigation, especially heavy armor.

There are so many variants to approach this. All could make the game better and more interesting.

- introduce collision detection.
- make block only work for damage from the frontal arc (say 150 degrees for shields, 120 degrees for weapons, flanking should be a thing).
- block should also never work against ground targeted damage sources like Wall of Elements (or are you gonna stand on your shield?)
- prevent animation canceling and block casting
- then however reduce or even remove the block cost and rebalance all PvE encounters, esp. Vet Dungeons and trials, also vMA
Optionally:
- separate shield from 1-hand/shield skill line. We should have:
Shield (usuable with Shield, includes Bash, Guard, a new Shield Wall skill a taunt, but not charge. shield wall gives immunity versus knockback and allows to slowly push enemy players backwards), Duelist (1-handed stamina weapon usuable with Shield and Dual Wield), Dual Wield (usable with Off-Hand Weapon) , 2-Handed, Bow, Destro Staff, Restro Staff, Wand (1-H offensive magic weapon, could contain a magicka taunt), Tome/Orb (defensive magic weapon, this removes/replaces frost-staff tanking, make frost focused on crowd control and debuffs). 2-Handed should be the only weapon line with a charge / gap closer.

This game could be so much better... *sigh*

I think you’re misremembering DAoC.

The “engage” skill would block everything from one target but would drain your Stam / endo

The “guard” skill made it so that you could block attacks meant for someone else as long as you were next to that person. But the block chance was capped around 50% I think.

DHale

Remind me to not do any pledges with you. The tankier ppl are the less damage they do. You could just ignore them... like most people.