Change how block is calculated (how to fix the real perma block issue)

krathos

I've commented on this topic before but I wanted to make a separate thread to make the point clear.

This is the calculation for block cost.

BlockCost = (((180 + 30*EffectiveLevel)*(1 - Item.Sturdy)*(1 + CP.BlockCost))*(1 + Set.BlockCost + Skill.BlockCost + Buff.BlockCost) + Item.BlockCost)*(1 + Skill2.BlockCost)

So, full sturdy, 1h/shield, and 100 points into shadow ward gets you a block cost of just over 700 that can trigger up to 4x a second. So that's quite a bit of stamina, even for a dk spamming igneous every second (990 stam for 3.7k magicka in 5 light).

Triggering block cost up to 4x per second is a recent change increased from 2x per second.

Did that fix the real perma tanks? No. It just hurt people who try to use block properly (to block burst, to take time to heal, etc) and definitely hurt classes who rely on suck mechanics due to lack of built in mechanics such as major evasion, protection, mobility, etc.

So. We hurt the average player and didn't fix the problem even though we DOUBLED the potential cost of block. Why?

Look at the calculation above. Notice the value "Item.BlockCost". It is one of the last pieces applied to the calculation and includes the Shield Glyph which reduces the cost of block by 203 (for a gold glyph).


So remember above we receive ~700 stam up to 4x per second for 2800 on a build that is already sacrificing quite a bit to get that far. But, subtract 609 from that running 3 shielding glyphs and what do you have? A block cost of less than 100. It doesn't matter if you make block trigger TEN times per second that setup will still be sustainable by almost any class and especially by DK.

So what has ZOS done so far? Nerfed the wrong part of the calculation. Nerfed DKs needlessly due to their ability to abuse this mechanic more favorably resulting in MORE DKs running this style since they are now gated out of other play styles due to said nerfs.

What did ZOS need to do? Move the flat values to the front of the calculation. Reduce the cost of block by the flat value glyphs first THEN reduce it by percentage.

What does this do?

It increases the artificial minimum achievable block cost to around 400-500 instead of 50-100 depending on if youre running defensive posture too. without harming players who run a few sturdy or a few points into shadow ward at all. This will make perma blocking MUCH MUCH harder and we can stop nerfing DK because you're forcing them to rely on it by watering down their other mechanics.

ak_pvp

Preaching to a choir. I'm hoping wrobel does a u turn and in true Halloween spirit the patch notes read trick or treat and they reverse all the bad changes, fixes all the unworking/bad abilities, changes the formulas and adds smart/dynamic combat via ult+abilities and we all are happy.

@ZOS_Wrobel

Say it is so?

Thogard

This is a good fix for PvP if they also lowered the default block cost by about 30% as well.

But it will make the PvE people very very salty.

Onefrkncrzypope

Just put it in battle spirit. No need for a Nerf in pve.

lucky_Sage

this game was suppose to be pvp focused and pve after. you go look at all the old press pre launch it was pvp focused when the game launched onl thing people liked was pvp but now a lot of the active combat like bashing heavy or blocking heavy attacks to set enemy off balance are gone. removel of soft caps and cp added turned people away. when this game launched on console it was awesome pvp it was very diverse intel everyone turned into meta build they got from pvp even though you could get 1 shot from 18k metoers

krathos

@Thogard @Onefrkncrzypope is having less than 100 block cost vital to PvE? I was under the impression having that low of block cost isn't needed since a lot of cases you won't be getting the 4x per second triggered. If I'm wrong then this can just go into battle spirit or something.

Onefrkncrzypope

krathos wrote: »

@Thogard @Onefrkncrzypope is having less than 100 block cost vital to PvE? I was under the impression having that low of block cost isn't needed since a lot of cases you won't be getting the 4x per second triggered. If I'm wrong then this can just go into battle spirit or something.

Nerfs of block and sustain during Morrowind made block cost important in any case. Locking block at 100 and taking my builds 19k Stam. This is controlled not include helping hands taunts and orbs. It would be 190 seconds of just blocking. This isn't enough time to kill any boss from group content( pug DPS average of 15k). Yes there are sustain skills but there is also Stam drains in taunts. Battle spirit modifiers would be beneficial to PvP but nonissue in pve. They should do this with most PvP balancing honestly.

idk

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

@Thogard @Onefrkncrzypope is having less than 100 block cost vital to PvE? I was under the impression having that low of block cost isn't needed since a lot of cases you won't be getting the 4x per second triggered. If I'm wrong then this can just go into battle spirit or something.

Nerfs of block and sustain during Morrowind made block cost important in any case. Locking block at 100 and taking my builds 19k Stam. This is controlled not include helping hands taunts and orbs. It would be 190 seconds of just blocking. This isn't enough time to kill any boss from group content( pug DPS average of 15k). Yes there are sustain skills but there is also Stam drains in taunts. Battle spirit modifiers would be beneficial to PvP but nonissue in pve. They should do this with most PvP balancing honestly.

Forgive me if I am lost here, but I did not see any changes to block cost in any of the patch notes for this PTS.

It is fine on live as it is. Yes, we adjusted and moved on.

Also, it is a waste to put a full 100 points into Shadow Ward. That last 25 points gives so little.

krathos wrote: »

@Thogard @Onefrkncrzypope is having less than 100 block cost vital to PvE? I was under the impression having that low of block cost isn't needed since a lot of cases you won't be getting the 4x per second triggered. If I'm wrong then this can just go into battle spirit or something.

iirc, 82 points into shadow ward provides 24% block cost reduction. That last 18 points merely provides 1% more cost reduction. Very steep loss in benefit per point. Doubt it is beneficial with any build to put a ful 100 points into it.

Other areas in that section would end up being more beneficial for at least that last 18 points. Cost reduction for dodge roll, bashing, breaking free are just some good areas for both PvP and for tanking in PvE.

Thogard

krathos wrote: »

@Thogard @Onefrkncrzypope is having less than 100 block cost vital to PvE? I was under the impression having that low of block cost isn't needed since a lot of cases you won't be getting the 4x per second triggered. If I'm wrong then this can just go into battle spirit or something.

I have no clue i'm not a PvE person, i just know what they whine about.

Onefrkncrzypope

idk wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

@Thogard @Onefrkncrzypope is having less than 100 block cost vital to PvE? I was under the impression having that low of block cost isn't needed since a lot of cases you won't be getting the 4x per second triggered. If I'm wrong then this can just go into battle spirit or something.

Nerfs of block and sustain during Morrowind made block cost important in any case. Locking block at 100 and taking my builds 19k Stam. This is controlled not include helping hands taunts and orbs. It would be 190 seconds of just blocking. This isn't enough time to kill any boss from group content( pug DPS average of 15k). Yes there are sustain skills but there is also Stam drains in taunts. Battle spirit modifiers would be beneficial to PvP but nonissue in pve. They should do this with most PvP balancing honestly.

Forgive me if I am lost here, but I did not see any changes to block cost in any of the patch notes for this PTS.

It is fine on live as it is. Yes, we adjusted and moved on.

Also, it is a waste to put a full 100 points into Shadow Ward. That last 25 points gives so little.

Morrowind shortened the cool down between block Stam consumption

idk

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

@Thogard @Onefrkncrzypope is having less than 100 block cost vital to PvE? I was under the impression having that low of block cost isn't needed since a lot of cases you won't be getting the 4x per second triggered. If I'm wrong then this can just go into battle spirit or something.

Nerfs of block and sustain during Morrowind made block cost important in any case. Locking block at 100 and taking my builds 19k Stam. This is controlled not include helping hands taunts and orbs. It would be 190 seconds of just blocking. This isn't enough time to kill any boss from group content( pug DPS average of 15k). Yes there are sustain skills but there is also Stam drains in taunts. Battle spirit modifiers would be beneficial to PvP but nonissue in pve. They should do this with most PvP balancing honestly.

Forgive me if I am lost here, but I did not see any changes to block cost in any of the patch notes for this PTS.

It is fine on live as it is. Yes, we adjusted and moved on.

Also, it is a waste to put a full 100 points into Shadow Ward. That last 25 points gives so little.

Morrowind shortened the cool down between block Stam consumption

I am aware and tanks have managed well. One adjustment some made were using more sturdy pieces, though that reduces the benefit from shadow ward. However, going a full 100 points into shadow ward is wasting some points.

Morrowind is also why Argonian race became BiS for tanking due to the extra resources returned from using a pot. It was already considered very good for tanking before Morrowind.

Mettaricana

ak_pvp wrote: »

Preaching to a choir. I'm hoping wrobel does a u turn and in true Halloween spirit the patch notes read trick or treat and they reverse all the bad changes, fixes all the unworking/bad abilities, changes the formulas and adds smart/dynamic combat via ult+abilities and we all are happy.

@ZOS_Wrobel

Say it is so?

He's to scared to admit a bad idea ir a mistake

Derra

Wait so you´re telling me every flat modificator for skillcost is calculated before % but for blocking it´s % before flat?

Wow.

Bashev

Derra wrote: »

Wait so you´re telling me every flat modificator for skillcost is calculated before % but for blocking it´s % before flat?

Wow.

The first mechanic which used this calculations was the roll dodge. Then ZoS changed the block too, so they are consistent. The problem is not in the permablocking, it is in the damage that you can put while you block cast skills. ZoS should introduce a debuf, while you are holding block your damage done is reduced with 50%. Problem solved.

Then tanks will block, debuff and CC and their party members could do the damage.

coplannb16_ESO

the whole blocking mechanic is crap imho. In other games shields (beside increasing your armor value, e.g. passive damage reduction) granted a more or less fixed percentage to block (and thus completely negate) 1 direct attack. Also it only worked in front of you in between 180 to 120 degrees in front that is (thus flanking and surprise attacks from behind were a thing). Also in this game the shield does not really add any decent utility (like the Guard skill, which was usually tied to the shield).

DAoC:
- frontal arc block chance depending on shield skill (up to 25%), dexterity and shield size. Shield skill would grant Guard and Intercept ability, also shield bashing attacks that could stun. No charge like abilities.
- in addition there was a parry skill (which did not grant you skills, but increased your parry chance by up to 25%)
- and there was a passive evade trait (granting 5-35% evade chance dependant on class / armor, e.g. assassins had the highest evasion)
- Also weapon types were more efficient versus different defences (2H, Dual Wield, 1H/S <-> Evasion, Parry, Block)
- also weaponskill could reduce the effective block chance
- if you were focusing on defense (say high Dexterity, Parry and Block) you would not be able to get a high weapon skill

Warhammer Online:
- shield only worked from the front, did only add a passive block chance and increased your armor
- you had guard and a very cool shield wall ability (which would reduce the damage of allies behind you as well as yourself, it had a cooldown and slowed you down a bit).
- in addition though you had collision detection. A tank could block enemies from getting past him, for instance in a keeps stairways.

WoW is pretty similar, but I think DAoC had a lot more depth in its combat system than ESO has in many aspects.

Basically block-casting should never have been allowed (animation canceling being part of the problem). If you have to actively block it should prevent you from using a skill or attack until you released the block. Additionally you should not be able to raise the block again before that attacks animation is complete (and also not be able to switch bars or cancel otherwise). The whole combat/animation system is flawed in this regard. Yes abusing it is a must at the moment for DPS, but it removes so many tactical choices from what could be a really interesting combat system.

Then the amount of damage block currently absorbs is too high. It beats every other form of mitigation, especially heavy armor.

There are so many variants to approach this. All could make the game better and more interesting.

- introduce collision detection.
- make block only work for damage from the frontal arc (say 150 degrees for shields, 120 degrees for weapons, flanking should be a thing).
- block should also never work against ground targeted damage sources like Wall of Elements (or are you gonna stand on your shield?)
- prevent animation canceling and block casting
- then however reduce or even remove the block cost and rebalance all PvE encounters, esp. Vet Dungeons and trials, also vMA
Optionally:
- separate shield from 1-hand/shield skill line. We should have:
Shield (usuable with Shield, includes Bash, Guard, a new Shield Wall skill a taunt, but not charge. shield wall gives immunity versus knockback and allows to slowly push enemy players backwards), Duelist (1-handed stamina weapon usuable with Shield and Dual Wield), Dual Wield (usable with Off-Hand Weapon) , 2-Handed, Bow, Destro Staff, Restro Staff, Wand (1-H offensive magic weapon, could contain a magicka taunt), Tome/Orb (defensive magic weapon, this removes/replaces frost-staff tanking, make frost focused on crowd control and debuffs). 2-Handed should be the only weapon line with a charge / gap closer.

This game could be so much better... *sigh*

zyk

@ZOS_RichLambert This is truly a critical issue in PVP. Permablock builds are too effective, too easy to play and result in meh fights not many enjoy.

aeowulf

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

There are so many variants to approach this. All could make the game better and more interesting.

- introduce collision detection.
- make block only work for damage from the frontal arc (say 150 degrees for shields, 120 degrees for weapons, flanking should be a thing).
- block should also never work against ground targeted damage sources like Wall of Elements (or are you gonna stand on your shield?)
- prevent animation canceling and block casting
- then however reduce or even remove the block cost and rebalance all PvE encounters, esp. Vet Dungeons and trials, also vMA

YES! especially block casting and ground AE's - that's so logical. The flanking thing would probably help in PVP too (not that i PVP) and would be good in PVE - tanks need to care more where mobs are, and which way they face.

SnowTheMadDog

So mdk can just f....ck themselves? Do you realize guys that you are all complaining about permablocking wich isn't a problem. a permablocker have to invest a lot into that and often dont do any dmg. Block/casting is the only option for mDK. I dont see anyone complaining about let's say...sorc defensive option? wich is spaming shields and stacking them at will. Wich is, imo equally powerfull as permablocking

Derra

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

So mdk can just f....ck themselves? Do you realize guys that you are all complaining about permablocking wich isn't a problem. a permablocker have to invest a lot into that and often dont do any dmg. Block/casting is the only option for mDK. I dont see anyone complaining about let's say...sorc defensive option? wich is spaming shields and stacking them at will. Wich is, imo equally powerfull as permablocking

There plenty of complaints towards shieldstacking aswell.

Both need to be adressed. Imo blocking makes for even worse gameplay. You can kill a sorc relatively fast with 2 or 3 ppl. Block builds - not so much.

Bashev

Derra wrote: »

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

So mdk can just f....ck themselves? Do you realize guys that you are all complaining about permablocking wich isn't a problem. a permablocker have to invest a lot into that and often dont do any dmg. Block/casting is the only option for mDK. I dont see anyone complaining about let's say...sorc defensive option? wich is spaming shields and stacking them at will. Wich is, imo equally powerfull as permablocking

There plenty of complaints towards shieldstacking aswell.

Both need to be adressed. Imo blocking makes for even worse gameplay. You can kill a sorc relatively fast with 2 or 3 ppl. Block builds - not so much.

It really depends who you fight. I can tanks 15 randoms for more than 2 minutes and at the same time i die for 10 seconds when 3 good sorcs focus me. 3 timed cursed with mage wrath and it is buy buy.

Merlin13KAGL

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

- block should also never work against ground targeted damage sources like Wall of Elements (or are you gonna stand on your shield?)

Block does nothing for ground sourced AoE's, the only potential exception coming from the bow line (as they are ground targetted, but projectile based).

It's why you move out of the 'stupid.'

Liofa

Bashev wrote: »

It really depends who you fight. I can tanks 15 randoms for more than 2 minutes and at the same time i die for 10 seconds when 3 good sorcs focus me. 3 timed cursed with mage wrath and it is buy buy.

This . I played one of those annoying builds (7th/werewolf/malubeth) a while ago . I could tank lots of potatos infinitely but few good people who does have a brain could kill me in 10-20 seconds . Especially whoever has an unblockable stun , especially fear . Because I don't have any Impen gear (have to use Sturdy) , when block is down , permablock builds are complete garbage . Just takes a Nightblade (or any class with unblockable CC) to kill these builds .

More importantly , only way I could kill people with that build is targeting the most potato player from my enemies . Get ulti for Leap , make sure 7th proc is on , put claw and ransack for debuffs and DoT , reverb , swap , leap , reverse slice , done . Everyone should know how these builds are working . You can clearly see it is gonna do a combo on you . Again , these builds work only against potatos . I was on my mDK with mNB friend , we were killing every permablock build we saw in Cyrodiil (CP campaign) in 10 seconds . Just takes 2 people who has brains to take them down .

SnowTheMadDog

Derra wrote: »

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

So mdk can just f....ck themselves? Do you realize guys that you are all complaining about permablocking wich isn't a problem. a permablocker have to invest a lot into that and often dont do any dmg. Block/casting is the only option for mDK. I dont see anyone complaining about let's say...sorc defensive option? wich is spaming shields and stacking them at will. Wich is, imo equally powerfull as permablocking

There plenty of complaints towards shieldstacking aswell.

Both need to be adressed. Imo blocking makes for even worse gameplay. You can kill a sorc relatively fast with 2 or 3 ppl. Block builds - not so much.

Except that the stamdk that build on permablock cant kill u if u are a decent player

Biro123

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

the whole blocking mechanic is crap imho. In other games shields (beside increasing your armor value, e.g. passive damage reduction) granted a more or less fixed percentage to block (and thus completely negate) 1 direct attack. Also it only worked in front of you in between 180 to 120 degrees in front that is (thus flanking and surprise attacks from behind were a thing). Also in this game the shield does not really add any decent utility (like the Guard skill, which was usually tied to the shield).

DAoC:
- frontal arc block chance depending on shield skill (up to 25%), dexterity and shield size. Shield skill would grant Guard and Intercept ability, also shield bashing attacks that could stun. No charge like abilities.
- in addition there was a parry skill (which did not grant you skills, but increased your parry chance by up to 25%)
- and there was a passive evade trait (granting 5-35% evade chance dependant on class / armor, e.g. assassins had the highest evasion)
- Also weapon types were more efficient versus different defences (2H, Dual Wield, 1H/S <-> Evasion, Parry, Block)
- also weaponskill could reduce the effective block chance
- if you were focusing on defense (say high Dexterity, Parry and Block) you would not be able to get a high weapon skill

Warhammer Online:
- shield only worked from the front, did only add a passive block chance and increased your armor
- you had guard and a very cool shield wall ability (which would reduce the damage of allies behind you as well as yourself, it had a cooldown and slowed you down a bit).
- in addition though you had collision detection. A tank could block enemies from getting past him, for instance in a keeps stairways.

WoW is pretty similar, but I think DAoC had a lot more depth in its combat system than ESO has in many aspects.

Basically block-casting should never have been allowed (animation canceling being part of the problem). If you have to actively block it should prevent you from using a skill or attack until you released the block. Additionally you should not be able to raise the block again before that attacks animation is complete (and also not be able to switch bars or cancel otherwise). The whole combat/animation system is flawed in this regard. Yes abusing it is a must at the moment for DPS, but it removes so many tactical choices from what could be a really interesting combat system.

Then the amount of damage block currently absorbs is too high. It beats every other form of mitigation, especially heavy armor.

There are so many variants to approach this. All could make the game better and more interesting.

- introduce collision detection.
- make block only work for damage from the frontal arc (say 150 degrees for shields, 120 degrees for weapons, flanking should be a thing).
- block should also never work against ground targeted damage sources like Wall of Elements (or are you gonna stand on your shield?)
- prevent animation canceling and block casting
- then however reduce or even remove the block cost and rebalance all PvE encounters, esp. Vet Dungeons and trials, also vMA
Optionally:
- separate shield from 1-hand/shield skill line. We should have:
Shield (usuable with Shield, includes Bash, Guard, a new Shield Wall skill a taunt, but not charge. shield wall gives immunity versus knockback and allows to slowly push enemy players backwards), Duelist (1-handed stamina weapon usuable with Shield and Dual Wield), Dual Wield (usable with Off-Hand Weapon) , 2-Handed, Bow, Destro Staff, Restro Staff, Wand (1-H offensive magic weapon, could contain a magicka taunt), Tome/Orb (defensive magic weapon, this removes/replaces frost-staff tanking, make frost focused on crowd control and debuffs). 2-Handed should be the only weapon line with a charge / gap closer.

This game could be so much better... *sigh*

I really liked the concept of PvP tanking in warhammer online.
Basically it was a critical role that reduced the enemy's outbound damage, whether by taunting an individual enemy or challenging a group (30% DMG reduction), or by guarding an individual (similar to ESO guard but more useful vs the kind of offensive mechanics in war - a good guard-swapping tank was a huge asset), or by crowd control, as tanks were given the majority of the cc in game.

Worked really well and really gave them a role.

I miss that game.

Bashev

Liofa wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It really depends who you fight. I can tanks 15 randoms for more than 2 minutes and at the same time i die for 10 seconds when 3 good sorcs focus me. 3 timed cursed with mage wrath and it is buy buy.

This . I played one of those annoying builds (7th/werewolf/malubeth) a while ago . I could tank lots of potatos infinitely but few good people who does have a brain could kill me in 10-20 seconds . Especially whoever has an unblockable stun , especially fear . Because I don't have any Impen gear (have to use Sturdy) , when block is down , permablock builds are complete garbage . Just takes a Nightblade (or any class with unblockable CC) to kill these builds .

More importantly , only way I could kill people with that build is targeting the most potato player from my enemies . Get ulti for Leap , make sure 7th proc is on , put claw and ransack for debuffs and DoT , reverb , swap , leap , reverse slice , done . Everyone should know how these builds are working . You can clearly see it is gonna do a combo on you . Again , these builds work only against potatos . I was on my mDK with mNB friend , we were killing every permablock build we saw in Cyrodiil (CP campaign) in 10 seconds . Just takes 2 people who has brains to take them down .

Yes I agree. Basically if you are in a perma block build and you dont have impregnatable set or ransmutition, every crit on you do tons of damage when unavoidable CC is used. Next patch it 2 new skills are introduced. I dont count petrify right now cause it breaks on damage.

Weps

Permablocking builds are only a problem when they turn and pour out really high burst combos.
No one's ever said "Errr ZoS, please nerf that DK / Warden that can take that huge boss on their own without even taking damage".

Take high damaging heavy sets out of the equation or make the proc conditions much more difficult to achieve while blocking and you're gonna solve the Permablocking QQing threads without hurting PvE.

Derra

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

So mdk can just f....ck themselves? Do you realize guys that you are all complaining about permablocking wich isn't a problem. a permablocker have to invest a lot into that and often dont do any dmg. Block/casting is the only option for mDK. I dont see anyone complaining about let's say...sorc defensive option? wich is spaming shields and stacking them at will. Wich is, imo equally powerfull as permablocking

There plenty of complaints towards shieldstacking aswell.

Both need to be adressed. Imo blocking makes for even worse gameplay. You can kill a sorc relatively fast with 2 or 3 ppl. Block builds - not so much.

Except that the stamdk that build on permablock cant kill u if u are a decent player

A sorc thats not a petbuild can´t kill you aswell though...

amir412

Very interesting idea,
Because those player who simply just hold block without showing some Skilled gameplay our class suffered the most.
Sad thing the latest nerf's didnt even touched their gameplay.

eso_nya

Builds that can permablock and also combo down players r most likely not using blockcost glyphs.
Imho the joke about blockcost being able to trigger 4 times/sec is, u need to be able to hit 4 times / sec.
Theoretically u need 4 players for that, putting dots up in exactly syncronised 0,25 sec intervals.
In the real world over the thumb u need at least 10 (maybe more) players hitting u for blockcost become a problem.

Imho, the thing that kills what refuses to die to superior numbers: oblivion dmg.

krathos

1) "DKs ARE ABUSING PERMA BLOCK THE MOST REEEEEE!" - random scrub
2) ZOS nerfs random *** on DK that doesn't fix perma block on any class
3) DKs are now forced to perma block since the class itself has been reduced to crap and has to rely on broken game mechanics
4) go to step 1

THE CIIIIIIIIIIIIRCLE OF LIIIIIIIIIIFE DRAGONKNIIIIIIIIIIGHTS

Xvorg

Derra wrote: »

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

So mdk can just f....ck themselves? Do you realize guys that you are all complaining about permablocking wich isn't a problem. a permablocker have to invest a lot into that and often dont do any dmg. Block/casting is the only option for mDK. I dont see anyone complaining about let's say...sorc defensive option? wich is spaming shields and stacking them at will. Wich is, imo equally powerfull as permablocking

There plenty of complaints towards shieldstacking aswell.

Both need to be adressed. Imo blocking makes for even worse gameplay. You can kill a sorc relatively fast with 2 or 3 ppl. Block builds - not so much.

Except that the stamdk that build on permablock cant kill u if u are a decent player

A sorc thats not a petbuild can´t kill you aswell though...

Yup, Permasorc is not a bad build... even magicka permasorc is viable