Will enemy resets ever be removed?

OutcastVP

Insandros wrote: »

OutcastVP wrote: »

@OutcastVP
in other words you want mobs not to reset outside a certain radius? So people can run the entire map at once aggro mobs and do a full zone AOE farming moment? Or an entire dungeon/public dungeon/delve full pull farm? If people think BoTs are issues now, imagine with no mob ressetting..... This is an MMO not a single player offline game, gotta think different.... not to mention, imagine you're a porr lvl 5 toon, with 1-3 skills in your skill line, questing or doing your thing easy,then a runner that doesn't wanna kill the mob, but get to his point ASAP not wasting time on mobs comes across your path with 20 mobs trailing him, but not resetting.... will the immersion hits you like a truck when those 20 mobs sees you and gank you?

Fodore wrote: »

So it would be more immersive if a welwa followed you from the furthest point of lower craglorn to the furthest point of upper craglorn? Yea didn't think so.

I already said that it could at least be made in a way that gave the impression there was at least some thought behind it to not make it look so pathetically artificial and ruin any notion that the game is not just an artifical static theme park.

-> "But even without this the enemy train does not have to be "solved" in such an ugly and artifical manner that just kills any and all immersion. There could be some random element to how long the enemy chase you, and when they give up they don't need to trigger a "Reset" on the spot. They could just tire and give up chasing you, walk back and maybe be a bit more on their guard and then they could slowly regain their health again, that would at least make it a bit more realistic and not look nearly as silly."

jeedrzej

Okey but... That game has worser problems than that If they wont focus on real, gamebreaking things, they will never fix their game XD

Elsonso

Fodore wrote: »

So it would be more immersive if a welwa followed you from the furthest point of lower craglorn to the furthest point of upper craglorn? Yea didn't think so.

What is wrong is how they disengage at the end of the leash.

If they have a radius where they turn around, they should not be magically restored to full health and trot back to home plate with immunity when they reach that limit.

Edit: Yes, I know why this is being done this way. My feeling is that this was just the easy answer and that there is a better answer out there that fits all the design points.

ADarklore

From my perspective, this DOES need to be 'fixed' in certain situations. For example, when playing a 'pet' build, you engage with three enemies... the pet kills one of them, and the other two run back and reset for no reason. I've had this happen a LOT playing a Warden, especially when I 'command' the Bear to go in first... I'll be engaging from range and one enemy will die and the others will reset and run back to their original starting point just a very short distance away. It wasn't like I moved outside of their area, it was that the pet killing the one enemy somehow caused the other two to reset... which is very annoying.

eso_nya

I love the idea! Just imagine how awesome it would be to pull the 6 worldbosses of a starterzone right in to the city where all the lowbies r afking xD

jk. is only rarely that i miss the good ol' "TRAIN TO ZONE" panic shouts

sevomd69

I miss the kiting Kazzak into Stormwind thing on WoW... that was some good 'ol fun times...

Oakmontowls_ESO

lordrichter wrote: »

OutcastVP wrote: »

But even without this the enemy train does not have to be "solved" in such an ugly and artifical manner that just kills any and all immersion. There could be some random element to how long the enemy chase you, and when they give up they don't need to "Reset". They could just tire of chasing you, walk back and maybe be a bit more on their guard and then they could slowly regain their health, that would at least make it a bit more realistic and not look as silly.

There are so many elements in this game that just makes it feel like an artificial theme park, instead of an actual living place and world.

There are a number of monster related "MMO things" that they didn't work very hard to hide. This theme park ain't Disney, it's more like Six Flags.

• Many mobs are static and are basically glued to the ground they inhabit
• Mobs respawn on timers at the predesigned location.
• Because mobs are always in the same place, and often don't move, you can freely pass by them without fear of them
• The leash laws in Tamriel are strange. Sometimes, the realize they are too far from spawn when they attack you.

In CWC, there are mobs all over the place that are doing things. The funny thing is that some are doing transient things, but they never move. There is a guy that looks like he is scanning a tree, and every time I see him, that is what he does, all day, every day. By launch, he will know every molecule of that damn tree. You'd think that some designer would see that and think it to be a little unnatural, with the obvious tweak being to have the mob go between a couple different nearby things and scan them? No. Just that tree needs to be scanned, and that is the way Sotha Sil wants it.

The game does have some apparent "supervisors" that wander between groups of cannot fodder, so not everything is static, but I do think they can do more to make the monsters seem like more than just the standard MMO mob with "XP and Loot Here" signs on their backs.

Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood tasks get very easy because of this static and predicatable mob placement. You can always kill or pickpocket the same people because they are always doing the same thing, and surrounded by the same people who never see you. Need to pick pocket someone in Elden Root? Here is the list and where you crouch to do it. The special assignments are like Zelda levels where knowledge of the map and timing can ensure success because nothing in there is ever different (easier or harder). It is a very dry implementation that is as boring in other games as it is here.

As the game matures, I always hope that the designers will move to the next level with how they treat mobs. This never seems to be the case, and probaby never will be.

The problem with this is then people will complain about rng. Pve in this game is for better or for worse all about learning mechanics. Places where these mechanics are purely rng, such as the placement of poison buds in vma, are places seemingly universally hated. The community does not seem to want unpredictability in pve. As for npc pathing in regards to the justice system, the whole system hinges on npcs following their set paths allowing you to observe and locate the opertune moment to steal /kill. I will concede that it seems unnatural how mobs are invulnerable while they are leashing back to their spots. However I chalk this up to a necessity with the current engine.

idk

1. One has to drag the NPC far from where they were found for them to reset or fight them from a cliff where they have no chance to reach you.
2. If the reset was eliminated then they would follow you forever and you would be in here complaining that you could not lose them no matter how far you ran from them.

In the end, there probably needs to be travel limits for how far the NPCs can travel. Everything must have parameters coded with an MMO do to the volume of activity on the server. On a single player game you are the only activity.

OutcastVP wrote: »

THWIP71 wrote: »

It definitely sucks for long range combat, but the alternative would be equally annoying enemy trains (much worse than the bot trains), from people constantly running through zones. In terms of immersion, I think that would be far more jarring, and would also ruin the game.

Enemy trains is not an issue in real TES games though so maybe they could redesign the game or have an alternative play mode that is less for just grinding and actual immersion where everything is not done with grinding in mind. The problem is that in dungeons etc enemies are placed quite evenly spaced out in a very artifical manner that just looks strange over the whole dungeons to maximize grinding instead of making the area feel real with organic placement.

Redesign how every NPC works? This has really not been a hot bed issue and as stated above, one has to drag them fairly far of stand where the NPC cannot reach you (which is really lacking in emersion) for them to reset. Fight them straight up for great emersion. Kite them in their area, which again is fairly large.

Kiralyn2000

I love single player TES games as much as the next guy, but.... this is an MMO. That's just the way it is. /shrug

(Honestly, I don't really believe in "immersion", but if I did, based on the things I've read... how could anyone be 'immersed' in an MMO? Surrounded by jumping idiots with strange names, monsters respawning around you as you fight, etc, etc, etc. The things I've seen people complain about 'ruining mah immershun', is everywhere in MMOs.)



...hmm. Thinking about it. My first character (post-Skyrim ) was a stam NB archer. And I don't recall having many problems with mobs leashing back. Do you kite things in circles, or do you just run backwards constantly?

MehrunesFlagon

FakeFox wrote: »

The resets are there for good reason. Otherwise people would pull together whole overland areas or dungeons and AOE them down. I don't think this would be a fun or immersive experience for you either.

I don't know about not being fun.I like to see how much aoe I can dish out without killing myself.

Morvane

this guy create more and more themes about his bad expirince in this game.
first he cant read dialogues in dungeobs, now this. report him

AoDD33pfri3d

It's annoying sometimes once I was fighting a troll and pulled it like 15 inches and it reset

D0PAMINE

I was soloing a WB and some scrub ran in, took the heavy sack, got aggro on the boss and ran away causing its health to reset. I was quite pissed. I mean really? Make a run for the loot, I dont care, but dont reset the boss. Max level player too. He knew exactly what would happen.

Mystrius_Archaion

OutcastVP wrote: »

I am trying my best to enjoy the game and squeze out some kind of immersion from this game or sense that this is an actual TES game and not just a WOW clone, but it feels like I have to fight the game on every corner to achieve this.
My biggest gripe is how the enemy resets when they walk a tiny bit outside their area. They regain all their health and just run back to their initial placement as if nothing happens. It looks so incredible pathetic and ever time it happens I just want to quit the game outright. But just knowing this is there just ruins any immersion I have for the game as it feels so artificial and like actually have to "baby sit" the enemy as to not do it. I play as an archer so I need to make sure when I back up I don't back up to much as to trigger their Reset.

Is there any chance that this will be removed at some point?

You've never played MMOs before this and WoW have you?

Us oldies(now I feel even older) remember the bad old days of pulled bosses into town and newbie areas wiping everyone out, just for the laughs of the puller. It was not a fun form of griefing. Some old school games may still have this, but most have done away with it.

Dracofyre

where was a triple facepalmed?

disintegr8

If you insist on only using bow, I'd suggest at some point you have to stop backing away and switch places with the enemy to keep them in the fighting zone.

I'd also think that for solo PVE, using nothing but a bow would be a P.i.t.A. Any characters that I use bow on would use it for the initial attack from range before switching to melee weapons to fight the boss in close. In a group situation, if you have someone using taunt to keep the bosses attention, use bow all you like and there shouldn't be an issue.

Not sure how many enemies would sit back and let you snipe them without coming out to fight you, is is illogical, as Spock would say.

NotNormanBates

OutcastVP wrote: »

Loc2262 wrote: »

This is an MMO, not Elder Scrolls 6. So it's not primarily about single-player immersion, but about multiplayer compatible mechanics. So the reset-and-walk-back thing, as well as enemies respawning in public zones, is a necessity.

Coming from Skyrim, this being my first and only MMO, I was a bit surprised about those mechanic as well, just like about how you pull mobs (i.e. they don't see you from miles away). But you get used to it easily, and learn to even make use of it.

I don't agree it is a necessity though. That is one of the main problems with the game, that it is so uninspiring and unoriginal and basically just slaps in every MMO trope that where before it, but with a TES skin on it. I know many people, including myself hoped when they heard of an Elder Scrolls Online game that it would actually break some new ground and do something new with the genre. I have played MMO:s before though, and I was a fan of Ultima Online back in the day, because it seemed that game actually wanted to create a world with other players. I think the whole genre went in the wrong direction with WOW when it made it basically stupid fast food for the masses. It is just sad to see that ESO goes in the same footsteps of that without trying to break any new grounds at all in the genre, which feels kind of cheap and like selling out the IP. I never get the feeling like ESO was made with love and passion because someone actually wanted to see how TES could be in an online world and how it would be a great fit for the IP. It really feels like a industry business cookie cutter clone that was made to cash in on the IP and it's huge fanbase that had been built up with the real single player TES games. If anyone could have made something fresh with the genre it had been Bethesda (though I guess one problem is that the game is not even made by Bethesda).

Sorry for the rant. I won't say that there are not some good qualities also in the game, like the graphics is nice for an MMO (though I really miss any sort of physics in the game) and the fact that there is voice acting. It is also good that there is an option to play with a more minimalistic HUD, which is even more supported with addons.

Well if what your looking for is a new teso game, a very large project is underway called "Beyond Skyrim" . It is a Mod, but it is very well done. Essentially the project is to create all of Tamriel, and the 1st segment Beyond skyrim: Bruma is already out. Its got great reviews and has professional voice acting, story progression, enhanced crafting and alot more. I'd play it if i had a gaming computer or xbox, but Sony doesn't like mods

Mystrius_Archaion

D0PAMINE wrote: »

I was soloing a WB and some scrub ran in, took the heavy sack, got aggro on the boss and ran away causing its health to reset. I was quite pissed. I mean really? Make a run for the loot, I dont care, but dont reset the boss. Max level player too. He knew exactly what would happen.

How did he get aggro on the world boss if you were the only one attacking it? Did he use a taunt? If not then you were not doing any damage to the boss compared to him.

Riejael

They do this and someone is going to pull the Spriggan boss from Dashaan into Mornholde and kill about a hundred players.

Don't need to be on the agro list to be killed by that one. Just within 60 meters. Which would be the entire trade/crafting area.

OutcastVP

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

OutcastVP wrote: »

I am trying my best to enjoy the game and squeze out some kind of immersion from this game or sense that this is an actual TES game and not just a WOW clone, but it feels like I have to fight the game on every corner to achieve this.
My biggest gripe is how the enemy resets when they walk a tiny bit outside their area. They regain all their health and just run back to their initial placement as if nothing happens. It looks so incredible pathetic and ever time it happens I just want to quit the game outright. But just knowing this is there just ruins any immersion I have for the game as it feels so artificial and like actually have to "baby sit" the enemy as to not do it. I play as an archer so I need to make sure when I back up I don't back up to much as to trigger their Reset.

Is there any chance that this will be removed at some point?

You've never played MMOs before this and WoW have you?

Us oldies(now I feel even older) remember the bad old days of pulled bosses into town and newbie areas wiping everyone out, just for the laughs of the puller. It was not a fun form of griefing. Some old school games may still have this, but most have done away with it.

I don't know how old you are, but I grew up with a commendore 64. My first MMO was Ultima Online. I actually only tested out Wow, because the concept in WoW is so uninteresting and generic and as I wrote above I think WoW took the whole MMO space in the wrong direction.

NotNormanBates wrote: »

OutcastVP wrote: »

Loc2262 wrote: »

This is an MMO, not Elder Scrolls 6. So it's not primarily about single-player immersion, but about multiplayer compatible mechanics. So the reset-and-walk-back thing, as well as enemies respawning in public zones, is a necessity.

Coming from Skyrim, this being my first and only MMO, I was a bit surprised about those mechanic as well, just like about how you pull mobs (i.e. they don't see you from miles away). But you get used to it easily, and learn to even make use of it.

I don't agree it is a necessity though. That is one of the main problems with the game, that it is so uninspiring and unoriginal and basically just slaps in every MMO trope that where before it, but with a TES skin on it. I know many people, including myself hoped when they heard of an Elder Scrolls Online game that it would actually break some new ground and do something new with the genre. I have played MMO:s before though, and I was a fan of Ultima Online back in the day, because it seemed that game actually wanted to create a world with other players. I think the whole genre went in the wrong direction with WOW when it made it basically stupid fast food for the masses. It is just sad to see that ESO goes in the same footsteps of that without trying to break any new grounds at all in the genre, which feels kind of cheap and like selling out the IP. I never get the feeling like ESO was made with love and passion because someone actually wanted to see how TES could be in an online world and how it would be a great fit for the IP. It really feels like a industry business cookie cutter clone that was made to cash in on the IP and it's huge fanbase that had been built up with the real single player TES games. If anyone could have made something fresh with the genre it had been Bethesda (though I guess one problem is that the game is not even made by Bethesda).

Sorry for the rant. I won't say that there are not some good qualities also in the game, like the graphics is nice for an MMO (though I really miss any sort of physics in the game) and the fact that there is voice acting. It is also good that there is an option to play with a more minimalistic HUD, which is even more supported with addons.

Well if what your looking for is a new teso game, a very large project is underway called "Beyond Skyrim" . It is a Mod, but it is very well done. Essentially the project is to create all of Tamriel, and the 1st segment Beyond skyrim: Bruma is already out. Its got great reviews and has professional voice acting, story progression, enhanced crafting and alot more. I'd play it if i had a gaming computer or xbox, but Sony doesn't like mods

That looks really cool! I have actually been thinking how awesome it would be if modders recreated Elder Scrolls Online in the Skyrim engine. I don't know if that will ever happen, but it would be awesome.

Conduit0

I think this about sums up the whole thread.

Zinaroth

Some times I really hate how ESO caters to all the role playing single player Elder Scrolls fans who have no practical knowledge on MMO structure and what is, and isn't possible, who then flock to forums to suggest absurd ideas that would ruin the game as an MMO or would never be remotely possible if you just thought it through. What bothers me about this is that some times ZOS listens to these absurd ideas and start compromising the game.

Beardimus

Changing this would be annoying when you need to run thru a zone for something quickly, not bothering with mobs.

But honestly how far are you backing up??? In normal combat I have never pulled enemies that far.

elijafire

OutcastVP wrote: »

I am trying my best to enjoy the game and squeze out some kind of immersion from this game or sense that this is an actual TES game and not just a WOW clone, but it feels like I have to fight the game on every corner to achieve this.
My biggest gripe is how the enemy resets when they walk a tiny bit outside their area. They regain all their health and just run back to their initial placement as if nothing happens. It looks so incredible pathetic and ever time it happens I just want to quit the game outright. But just knowing this is there just ruins any immersion I have for the game as it feels so artificial and like actually have to "baby sit" the enemy as to not do it. I play as an archer so I need to make sure when I back up I don't back up to much as to trigger their Reset.

Is there any chance that this will be removed at some point?

That's one things that really annoys me in this game, enemies are SOO predictable and static it makes it mind numbingly easy to run through all the content without killing adds. Same adds spawn at the same spots and pat the same distance... YAWN.

That is SO last century.

zaria

Beardimus wrote: »

Changing this would be annoying when you need to run thru a zone for something quickly, not bothering with mobs.

But honestly how far are you backing up??? In normal combat I have never pulled enemies that far.

In delves and public dungeons its common to run past enemies to pull them into AoE.
Run past, then drop some AoE, LA on enemies ahead to pull them inn too, spamable AoE like sweep or steel tornado on top

moo_2021

FakeFox wrote: »

The resets are there for good reason. Otherwise people would pull together whole overland areas or dungeons and AOE them down. I don't think this would be a fun or immersive experience for you either.

The problem still exists.

Why don't MMOs just let them stop at the maximum range where they're supposed to patrol? No point chasing except to annoy players - some of them even interrupted my chest unlocking and excavation! I just run through entire delves for skyshards and don't want to waste time on those trash...

BlueRaven

Necro thread.

VaranisArano

moo_2021 wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

The resets are there for good reason. Otherwise people would pull together whole overland areas or dungeons and AOE them down. I don't think this would be a fun or immersive experience for you either.

The problem still exists.

Why don't MMOs just let them stop at the maximum range where they're supposed to patrol? No point chasing except to annoy players - some of them even interrupted my chest unlocking and excavation! I just run through entire delves for skyshards and don't want to waste time on those trash...

You would think that in necroing a nearly four year old thread you would figure out that this is an intended game feature that's highly unlikely to change, but apparently not.

Have you considered that maybe the Devs intended for you to actually fight stuff inside Delves instead of rushing for the skyshard without fighting?

Unless this is sarcasm, and you just replied to a really old comment for the lulz?

I dunno. I do know:

jecks33

i think people who don't like this game should not play this game

amm7sb14_ESO

I agree 100% with the OP.

Unfortunately, this is such a fundamental aspect of the game design, that it will not ever be removed.

The problem is not even so much that they reset their life bar and become invulnerable after leaving their area, it is that they are actually still attacking you after leaving their area, and when you turn around to fight back, suddenly they become invulnerable and run away.

The way aggro works in this game is entirely obnoxious and it is one of the reasons why I am entirely through with overland questing.