A plan to stop zergs

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Zergs will stop when ZOS stops encouraging zerging with nerfs and changes that encourage people to group together.

SydneyGrey

VaranisArano wrote: »

Well, yes. That was my point. Also, I wasn't sure from your statement if you understood how resurrection works in PVP, so if that was a lecture you didn't need, I'm sorry.

I do PvP, so I know EXACTLY how resurrection works there, thanks.

GreenSoup2HoT

Remember when keep defence was a thing? Remember when entire servers would bottleneck at certain keeps? Now its just to easy to take a 12 man group and flip a keep before anything interesting develops. Wish Ram's weren't so strong and combat siege buffed.

Saucy_Jack

Here's the thing about zergs in Cyro. It's not about PVP. It was never about PVP. It was always about "I want AP for [insert reason here]; zerging around is a cheap, fast way to get AP."

That's why when the Vicious Death set was introduced, there was such a huge outcry; now the game had a very viable and effective anti-zerg tool. If people were interested in true PVP, they would've welcomed that set, as now more strategy and thought would have had to go into big battles in order to counter that set's effects.

But as I said, zerging and zergers were never about improving or deepening the PVP experience; zergers are only interested in one thing: AP per second.

Bhaal5

See i dont understand why people hate zergs? There are plently of single player games out there. This is a MMO and with a larger multiplayer/pvp experience (even a selling point).
Zenimax sold this game with a "war" in cyrodiil, not a boxing match or a football match, a war.

If people like the ap per second, fighting in 50+ groups, who cares. If people like playing with themselves in the corner in the corner of blue road keep, also their choice.

Zbigb4life

I love the big battles when defending or attacking a keep/outpost/town/resource

VaranisArano

SydneyGrey wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Well, yes. That was my point. Also, I wasn't sure from your statement if you understood how resurrection works in PVP, so if that was a lecture you didn't need, I'm sorry.

I do PvP, so I know EXACTLY how resurrection works there, thanks.

Like I said, sorry for the lecture if you didn't need it.

In that case, we disagree on whether resurrecting and rejoining the fight is realistic. I believe ZOS has implemented it in a way that is fair to both aggressors and defenders, groups and solo players, serious PVP'ers and casual "I'm just here for caltrops" players. (And if a recent thread is any indication, there are those who want resurrection and rejoining the fight to be even easier by adding more outposts to the map.)

thedude33

If I'm in a group of 24, and we bump into a group of 50 ...that's a zerg
If I'm in a group of 12 and we bump into a group of 24 ...that's a zerg
If I'm in a group of 5 and we bump into a group of 12 ..that's a zerg
If I'm solo or duo and we bump into a group of 5 .. that's a zerg

I think I get it now.

VaranisArano

thedude33 wrote: »

If I'm in a group of 24, and we bump into a group of 50 ...that's a zerg
If I'm in a group of 12 and we bump into a group of 24 ...that's a zerg
If I'm in a group of 5 and we bump into a group of 12 ..that's a zerg
If I'm solo or duo and we bump into a group of 5 .. that's a zerg

I think I get it now.

Pretty much.

Or as I like to put it: When my faction has multiple organized raids+pugs arrive at the same location and time, that's strategic movement towards an objective that totally helps our faction.

When the enemy does the same thing, they're zerging.

wazzz56

a few thoughts about this subject..

most zergs are mindless, unskilled groups of people spamming abilities and are easily wiped by groups of 5-8 skilled players...Though there are very good organized groups, most are just giant balls of AP waiting to be wiped..

Most "Small scalers really do not care about the zergs, besides the issues it causes in server performance and the zombie zergs that chase 1-2 people halfway across the map

The people who say small scale has no place in Cyrodiil are those who have probably never left the safety of the zerg and do not know the satisfaction of good small scale.

Battlegrounds are in no way a good alternative to Cyro small scale pvp

Many of the very few zerg busting tools are getting nerfed or changed, thus making it tougher in the future (Clever, Destro Ult etc)

Much like the PvP versus PVE argument, the Zergling v Small Scaler Argument is not going away anytime soon

idk

Go for it if you really think it will change anything. Your gold. Do not be surprised if it has zero effect on the game since Zerging has been around through many changes and well before ESO.

dotme

I think what makes ESO PvP unique is the huge battles. They are simply epic... Over two years of playing mostly in Cyrodiil and I still experience some hour-long amazing battles over a single keep involving 80+ players on both sides. Whether my side wins or loses, I still shake my head and smile in disbelief at what just happened. I swear if ZoS ran ads with clips from some of those fights, people who have never played before would buy ESO just for the battles.

I've never seen anything like that in any other game. So I think it would be a mistake to try and kill that aspect of PvP.

Perhaps instead of closing empty campaigns in the next update, one or two should be kept open but pop-locked at 40 players per side and labeled "Small Scale Kastav" for example? I personally wouldn't play such a large map with so little action, but I understand some people might love it.

technohic

thedude33 wrote: »

If I'm in a group of 24, and we bump into a group of 50 ...that's a zerg
If I'm in a group of 12 and we bump into a group of 24 ...that's a zerg
If I'm in a group of 5 and we bump into a group of 12 ..that's a zerg
If I'm solo or duo and we bump into a group of 5 .. that's a zerg

I think I get it now.

This is about the only way to explain how the term is used. I see some people describe PUGs as the zerg. Others describe ball groups (similarly large but organized) as zergs, then others just talking about any X vs Y where Y < X which is about the most consistent.

I also see people referencing zegs to specifically just PUGs who only want AP and don't care about fights. I start to take offense to that because I will PUG from time to time just wanting some large battles and actual fights but then I know I have seen in those group chats "Why do we keep fighting these guys? These keeps over here are unguarded and we could get some good AP." I'm always disappointed if thats what they want to go do.

Patouf

6 Bomblades for smallscale PvP ruin all zerg and its meta.

Rainraven

Deep_01 wrote: »

What if I started supplying my alliance zergs with resource poisons for free. Ask them to use it. Give them all cancer build advice in game. Ask them to run Destro and Resto ult etc.

This could lead to other alliance zergs using it too. In a few days or over time they might rage quit on each other and become toxic enough that they leave PvP altogether.

In the meantime, if players playing for love of PvP, keep up the etiquettes, we might later have an almost zerg free cyro.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Let me know if any other ideas to curb zerg groups exist.

You cannot stop the zerg. Resistance is futile (and possibly feudal). You will be assimilated.

jkemmery

The best way to stop zergs would to simply allow damage from friendly players.

I quit playing pvp because of this, and the ridiculous mechanic of being completely hidden while simply crouching.

And the laggy servers.

Egonieser

There is no "etiquette" in Cyrodiil. The whole concept is built around zergs and mass siege warfare. You can't and won't change that. Your etiquette may only apply to YOU and maybe some friends that all decide to play under certain rules.
Wars are won by numbers and tactics not etiquettes. That's what dueling and battleground is for.

Defilted

I think wishing that the player certain population leaves a section of the game or the game all together will work against you in the long run. You want more people playing the game not less.

Also you like to play the game a particular way. You cannot force others to do the same. Just becasue a person or groups of people play the game in a manner that is different than yours does not make it wrong. I run into people that do things in Cyro that I find very annoying, but I just have to adapt and move forward, there is nothing else you can do.

Nyghthowler

This post just goes to prove PvP'ers will *** about any and everything.

Riejael

Best way to deal with a zerg is to crush them with a premade group. In any multiplayer game like this, a zerg of a 100 people can be wrecked by a premade of 25-30 on voice comms.

I never understood PVPers in MMORPGs, they always go lonewolfing or zerging. They hardly ever premade. You could easily roll over Cyrodil putting a few groups into raids and trouncing people using coordination.

Even a group of 4 can do serious damage to a zerg by flanking them. Zergs have no coordination, no motivation, and no guidance. A group of 4 can pull 10-20 people out of a force of 50 and cause them to get trounced by a group of 30. You only really need to engage and withdraw and pull those easily distracted away. Even works against coordinated groups if they're a PUG group.

Its worked in WoW (in the old days before BGs), Rift, Archeage, Black Desert, and Planetside 1 and 2. It'd probably work better here. The culture of ESO PVP is very lonewolfy and very little coordination outside grouping to share AP gains.

Defilted wrote: »

I think wishing that the player certain population leaves a section of the game or the game all together will work against you in the long run. You want more people playing the game not less.

Depends on your goal. If you want to win in ESO PVP. Then one of the ways to win is to be the last ones standing. Driving everyone out gives you a clear victory condition in a game where the battle is usually 'endless'. In this case its a match of will and conviction.

I've done this very thing in Archeage, I was apart of a group that destroyed a server's PVP through the breakening of people's will to fight. The server either joined our guild, or quit. The rest were rolled over. That didn't bother me in the slightest. It told me the tactics, strategy, and actions we took were effective and we clearly 'won'.

I would not have any issue doing such to ESO. That feat would be more impressive in fact due to the megaserver structure rather than a single shard/realm/server. With that said, the OP's idea wouldn't work. People don't get tired of the game and leave because of a meta change, they simply adapt and switch to a new one.

You have to break their will directly, make it seem that no matter what effort they have available, no matter what spec, or gear, or whatever is futile. Their only recourse is to join you or quit. That's how you get people to leave PVP. Not some silly pitting people together in an endless battle. We're already there.

Its only when they feel they can't make a step outside their safe areas is when they actually consider quitting. That's a little harder in ESO. Possible, but much harder.

Kuramas9tails

Think about the concept of Cyrodiil.

Now think why Zergs exist.

Interesting.

SydneyGrey

wazzz56 wrote: »

.....
The people who say small scale has no place in Cyrodiil are those who have probably never left the safety of the zerg and do not know the satisfaction of good small scale.

I haven't seen anyone say that small scale fights have no place in Cyrodiil. All I've seen is some people arguing that zergs have just as much of a place.

Mazbt

I don't understand some people....this is a zerg pvp game. it's intended to be as such. You can play smaller groups and solo with success if you pick your fights or move around the map but it's not a focus. And the way zos nerfs and buffs certains skills it's quite obvious.

Riejael

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Think about the concept of Cyrodiil.

Now think why Zergs exist.

Interesting.

Its more to do with this:

Defilted

Riejael wrote: »

Best way to deal with a zerg is to crush them with a premade group. In any multiplayer game like this, a zerg of a 100 people can be wrecked by a premade of 25-30 on voice comms.

I never understood PVPers in MMORPGs, they always go lonewolfing or zerging. They hardly ever premade. You could easily roll over Cyrodil putting a few groups into raids and trouncing people using coordination.

Even a group of 4 can do serious damage to a zerg by flanking them. Zergs have no coordination, no motivation, and no guidance. A group of 4 can pull 10-20 people out of a force of 50 and cause them to get trounced by a group of 30. You only really need to engage and withdraw and pull those easily distracted away. Even works against coordinated groups if they're a PUG group.

Its worked in WoW (in the old days before BGs), Rift, Archeage, Black Desert, and Planetside 1 and 2. It'd probably work better here. The culture of ESO PVP is very lonewolfy and very little coordination outside grouping to share AP gains.

Defilted wrote: »

I think wishing that the player certain population leaves a section of the game or the game all together will work against you in the long run. You want more people playing the game not less.

Depends on your goal. If you want to win in ESO PVP. Then one of the ways to win is to be the last ones standing. Driving everyone out gives you a clear victory condition in a game where the battle is usually 'endless'. In this case its a match of will and conviction.

I've done this very thing in Archeage, I was apart of a group that destroyed a server's PVP through the breakening of people's will to fight. The server either joined our guild, or quit. The rest were rolled over. That didn't bother me in the slightest. It told me the tactics, strategy, and actions we took were effective and we clearly 'won'.

I would not have any issue doing such to ESO. That feat would be more impressive in fact due to the megaserver structure rather than a single shard/realm/server. With that said, the OP's idea wouldn't work. People don't get tired of the game and leave because of a meta change, they simply adapt and switch to a new one.

You have to break their will directly, make it seem that no matter what effort they have available, no matter what spec, or gear, or whatever is futile. Their only recourse is to join you or quit. That's how you get people to leave PVP. Not some silly pitting people together in an endless battle. We're already there.

Its only when they feel they can't make a step outside their safe areas is when they actually consider quitting. That's a little harder in ESO. Possible, but much harder.

I guess if you true goal is to drive people away from the game to damage the business of ZOS and close the game then making people leave would not be a bad thing from your perspective. From my perspective less players is less money and if there is less money in the game , then the game stops getting maintained and improved and ultimately shut down. This from my perspective would be a bad thing as I like playing the game.

I hope you play on XBOX NA becasue I would like to see how good you are. I like challenging opponents. They are always a fun battle.

Riejael

Defilted wrote: »

I hope you play on XBOX NA becasue I would like to see how good you are. I like challenging opponents. They are always a fun battle.

That's a good attitude to have. I wish more people did this.

Unfortunately I'm on PC, and I doubt my main could pose a direct challenge in a 1v1 environment. As I typically play a healer. But in group play I can be rather tenacious.

But that's the fun part right? An opponent that keeps trying and adapts.

The_Smilemeister

Here's an answer to all your problems.

O_LYKOS

So end the exact gameplay style that Cyrodiil is made for? hmmmm...

Girl_Number8

Defilted wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

Best way to deal with a zerg is to crush them with a premade group. In any multiplayer game like this, a zerg of a 100 people can be wrecked by a premade of 25-30 on voice comms.

I never understood PVPers in MMORPGs, they always go lonewolfing or zerging. They hardly ever premade. You could easily roll over Cyrodil putting a few groups into raids and trouncing people using coordination.

Even a group of 4 can do serious damage to a zerg by flanking them. Zergs have no coordination, no motivation, and no guidance. A group of 4 can pull 10-20 people out of a force of 50 and cause them to get trounced by a group of 30. You only really need to engage and withdraw and pull those easily distracted away. Even works against coordinated groups if they're a PUG group.

Its worked in WoW (in the old days before BGs), Rift, Archeage, Black Desert, and Planetside 1 and 2. It'd probably work better here. The culture of ESO PVP is very lonewolfy and very little coordination outside grouping to share AP gains.

Defilted wrote: »

I think wishing that the player certain population leaves a section of the game or the game all together will work against you in the long run. You want more people playing the game not less.

Depends on your goal. If you want to win in ESO PVP. Then one of the ways to win is to be the last ones standing. Driving everyone out gives you a clear victory condition in a game where the battle is usually 'endless'. In this case its a match of will and conviction.

I've done this very thing in Archeage, I was apart of a group that destroyed a server's PVP through the breakening of people's will to fight. The server either joined our guild, or quit. The rest were rolled over. That didn't bother me in the slightest. It told me the tactics, strategy, and actions we took were effective and we clearly 'won'.

I would not have any issue doing such to ESO. That feat would be more impressive in fact due to the megaserver structure rather than a single shard/realm/server. With that said, the OP's idea wouldn't work. People don't get tired of the game and leave because of a meta change, they simply adapt and switch to a new one.

You have to break their will directly, make it seem that no matter what effort they have available, no matter what spec, or gear, or whatever is futile. Their only recourse is to join you or quit. That's how you get people to leave PVP. Not some silly pitting people together in an endless battle. We're already there.

Its only when they feel they can't make a step outside their safe areas is when they actually consider quitting. That's a little harder in ESO. Possible, but much harder.

I guess if you true goal is to drive people away from the game to damage the business of ZOS and close the game then making people leave would not be a bad thing from your perspective. From my perspective less players is less money and if there is less money in the game , then the game stops getting maintained and improved and ultimately shut down. This from my perspective would be a bad thing as I like playing the game.

I hope you play on XBOX NA becasue I would like to see how good you are. I like challenging opponents. They are always a fun battle.

I think you need some duels. Cyro open world is for all out war. Hot oil being poured on screaming elfs, and lots of dead plp everywhere. Watching someone 1vX is always nice too. A zerg is the large scale warfare promised. They do have those less popular campaigns you can find 1v1, and some small scale stuff but you will see how boring it is.

You sound like a fun player though

Taleof2Cities

1. Brush off that Magicka Nightblade or Sorc that's been collecting dust and cobwebs.
2. Be sure Eye of the Storm and Proximity Detonation skills are maxed.
3. Put on Vicious Death 5-pc gear.
4. Stealth into said Zerg ...
5. ...
6. Profit