A plan to stop zergs

SirAndy

Bhaal5 wrote: »

?? So you want small group stuff?? Isnt that what battlegrounds and dueling is for?

Never understood why people think large groups in a huge place like Cyrodiil are a bad thing.

AvAvA yes, but please don't run in groups and everybody please spread out so i can fight them 1v1 ...

Bhaal5

The root of the problem is not the zerg itself but its the current campaign system and the campaign switching when going is a "little" tough. Think its a bit crap when you come across a "hard" fight and you see people disconnect and then they are on the otherside?

So for 1v2v1? Seriously? I like a good scrap as much as the next guy. But limiting cyrodiil to that.... I'll just get guild wars 2 going again and go back to wvw (with a proper tournament system for their "cyrodiil" and only what of switching sides is either spending money to change teams or buy a new client. Sticking with your team thick and thin)

Mettaricana

Dumbest part of all this i hate zergs crap is cyrodiil was meant for zergs seriously who tf wages a war on a fort alone with 10 seiges where in a war is there 1 soldier doing that? can't really have a war without an army.. zerg is an army whining about zergs is like being food tossed in an ant pile then blaming the ants for swarming on you... its like dude if your out in a battlezone alone and an enemy caravan finds you they are gonna get you they arent gonna be like we surrender to your lonesome

Shardan4968

eso_nya wrote: »

Is actually hard to find vids that or old enough.

pts before launch

shortly after launch

Have no clue how to embed, sry.

For me, that was what made pvp awesome and special, hadnt seen anything like that in a mmo before.

I really don't like bombers, but just imagine all these people from first video standing in one place and then... boom! Millions of billions AP.

badmojo

Why? Why are zergs a problem that need to be solved? It's something that never really gets explained in these threads, people make it seem like zergs being bad are a given, when that is simply an opinion.

I like zergs, I like Cyrodiil, I suspect many other players also enjoy it. Why should we accept your wish to dismantle what we have enjoyed for years?

Threads like this are akin to me asking for group dungeons to become solo instances... because I don't want to bother grouping up, but I want the drops. Doing so would ruin the enjoyment of many players for the sake of my own enjoyment.

Expecting a games design to be fundamentally changed in order to produce your desired gameplay will always leave you frustrated. Perhaps it's time to find a game more in line with your design philosophy? Or think of a way to encourage ZOS to implement new game modes that would produce what you desire, without destroying what other people enjoy.

Bam_Bam

Deep_01 wrote: »

Nogawd wrote: »

I enjoy crazy big battles for keeps, but I guess that is not called "zerging" per say. Yeah we see large groups get together just to aim and mow down much smaller ones, which I don't understand how that makes them feel accomplished or better about themselves.

By zergs I mean 24-player raids, formed via lfg in zone chat, follows the crown, is there for AP etc. Keeps can't be taken by small groups effectively unless its empty and the group size is 3+

I get good battles of 10 vs. 10 at keeps around 4 AM GMT in PC EU. those battles are purely skill based. No groups exist during that time. We port in, do our jobs without speaking anything, if we are better talented, we get to thin down and push the group as defenders. If we are sieging, its whole lot amazing when we win.

If 10 of you are "better talented" you should be carving up zergs, especially Pug zergs.

bloodthirstyvampire

For an Anti zerg try a half dps half tank, you can kil regular dps easily and take a lot of hits from multiple enemys its hard to do, its a good at both master of nothing kind of thing

WhitePawPrints

With a small group of 3-5, an entire Zerg can be eliminated in open field. Same group can wipe way larger zergs in defense of a keep or flanking. No need to change anything. Just find good players to play with.

DCanadianBacon

You want to know how to stop zergs? Get rid of AoE caps. AoE cap ONLY help zergs, since small 6 man groups don't get the benefits of AoE caps. All I see now a days are groups like Pact Militia and Kush running around with full tank builds with healers and Destro Ult/proxy builds in the middle of the groups, and all they do is stack neatly together for free AoE damage mitigation. It's disgusting.

altemriel

Bhaal5 wrote: »

?? So you want small group stuff?? Isnt that what battlegrounds and dueling is for?

this, look at any great wars, it is always zergs in the end

Deep_01

badmojo wrote: »

Why? Why are zergs a problem that need to be solved? It's something that never really gets explained in these threads, people make it seem like zergs being bad are a given, when that is simply an opinion.

I like zergs, I like Cyrodiil, I suspect many other players also enjoy it. Why should we accept your wish to dismantle what we have enjoyed for years?

Threads like this are akin to me asking for group dungeons to become solo instances... because I don't want to bother grouping up, but I want the drops. Doing so would ruin the enjoyment of many players for the sake of my own enjoyment.

Expecting a games design to be fundamentally changed in order to produce your desired gameplay will always leave you frustrated. Perhaps it's time to find a game more in line with your design philosophy? Or think of a way to encourage ZOS to implement new game modes that would produce what you desire, without destroying what other people enjoy.

As many other stated, I came to realise that big groups are a primary part of Cyrodiil's design. Also realised that I should take my wishes elsewhere instead of enforcing it. Took me a while

Deep_01

DCanadianBacon wrote: »

You want to know how to stop zergs? Get rid of AoE caps. AoE cap ONLY help zergs, since small 6 man groups don't get the benefits of AoE caps. All I see now a days are groups like Pact Militia and Kush running around with full tank builds with healers and Destro Ult/proxy builds in the middle of the groups, and all they do is stack neatly together for free AoE damage mitigation. It's disgusting.

Met a 20+ player zerg all wearing Plague Doctor. Was surprised to see every mag and stam char with 27K to 30K+ hp. Won't such a group survive really well even without AoE caps ?

VaranisArano

My MagDK healer has 28k health in Cyrodiil without her plague doctor on and wearing 5 light/2 heavy. With Plague doctor, she's at 40k health. Are you sure you aren't thinking about the various health buffs you get in Cyrodiil from battle spirit and faction buffs?

Deep_01

VaranisArano wrote: »

My MagDK healer has 28k health in Cyrodiil without her plague doctor on and wearing 5 light/2 heavy. With Plague doctor, she's at 40k health. Are you sure you aren't thinking about the various health buffs you get in Cyrodiil from battle spirit and faction buffs?

I asked them. They said their entire group was trying Plague Doctor, Reactive armour etc. I meant that a casual magsorc who would be having 19K - 22K in light armour had 30K health when he stomped over my dead char. This was in non CP.

pod88kk

Then the zergee becomes the zerger

VaranisArano

Deep_01 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

My MagDK healer has 28k health in Cyrodiil without her plague doctor on and wearing 5 light/2 heavy. With Plague doctor, she's at 40k health. Are you sure you aren't thinking about the various health buffs you get in Cyrodiil from battle spirit and faction buffs?

I asked them. They said their entire group was trying Plague Doctor, Reactive armour etc. I meant that a casual magsorc who would be having 19K - 22K in light armour had 30K health when he stomped over my dead char. This was in non CP.

Okay. I play in PC/NA Vivec most of the time, so that might be some of the differences. Still, being at 25-30k health is pretty normal in Cyrodiil fo rthe players I see.

ak_pvp

Remove resource poisons.

Add dynamic ulti.

More dynamic abilities. I.e. proxy/3.2.3 vDSA 2H. Stuff like reflective posture or wings should reflect 4 per person.

More ways to remove cancer snares.

Remove AoE caps. My fear/DB/Talons should affect anyone in the area for full effect unless immunity, be it 1 or 50. How fair would it be for a reversal of that? Only 6 people can hurt me, rest of you are potato. Its only use is empowering zergtards.

Half healing from outside sources so you have to look after yourself, and cap all heals to yourself+2/3 updating every 2s. (Won't affect PvE) Remove gapcloser snare.

Tadaaaaa... wait, nope. too rational.

Xsorus

Increase prox det bonus per player to 50% for a max of 500%

PlagueSD

You must construct additional pylons to beat the zerg.

SydneyGrey

VaranisArano wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I agree it's not realistic for people to be able to resurrect and re-join the fight, though.

Players can't resurrect and rejoin the fight. At least not the same way you can in PVE.

They can:
A. Be resurrected by players of their faction. This encourages players on the faction supporting each other and organized raids using tatical resurrections. Pulled off, this can turn the tide of the fight. Not pulled off, this is where gorups die. I've been in both situations. Likewise, small groups can have a player hide and rez group members after the larger group has left and continue on to their objective.
B. Resurrect at a nearby or faraway keep as long as the keep is not flagged. This helps defenders, who can defend a keep without fear until it flags, but have to become very careful once it does flag. Porting to faraway keeps helps enable movement across the map in a zone that is huge. Porting to a nearby keep that isn't flagged requires players to ride back to the fight.
C. Resurrect at a nearby Forward Camp set down by members of their faction. These cost AP, have a limited range, and can be burned by the enemy. They also have a time limit of 5 minutes where if you die before your respawn timer is up, you can rez at a Forward camp until your timer is up. This prevents people from dying and rezzing, dying and rezzing once a keep is flagged. Small groups and farming groups will also use these when they expect to die and don't want to ride back from the nearest keep or outpost.

All of these methods are situational, not a guaranteed resurrection, and are absolutely necessary to deal with the dreaded Horse Riding Simulator 3000 that is Cyrodiil. Removing them would harm solo players, small groups, large groups, and zergs alike.

For a PVE equivalent, its similar to players being unable to rez themselves if they die during a boss fight during a group dungeon or trial. There is a penalty for dying, but not one that prevents them from being able to rejoin the fight after a period of time or when a player can help them.

I love how you say "Players can't resurrect and rejoin the fight" and then go on to list a bunch of ways players can resurrect and rejoin the fight. LOL!

Girl_Number8

Don't worry Op, soon it will just be stamyblades poking each other in stealth.

Akrasjel

You don't want zergs... then don't play such games or tell diffrent developers not create open world combat zones like Cyrodil problem solved

MattT1988

generalmyrick wrote: »

Deep_01 wrote: »

What if I started supplying my alliance zergs with resource poisons for free. Ask them to use it. Give them all cancer build advice in game. Ask them to run Destro and Resto ult etc.

This could lead to other alliance zergs using it too. In a few days or over time they might rage quit on each other and become toxic enough that they leave PvP altogether.

In the meantime, if players playing for love of PvP, keep up the etiquettes, we might later have an almost zerg free cyro.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Let me know if any other ideas to curb zerg groups exist.

a really popular person/youtuber/leader could destroy zerging as a strategic option = by advertising this

You do realise that the majority of the player base don’t give two *** what Youtubers think right? A lot of players that visit the forums might but the forums represent a small part of the gaming community.

VaranisArano

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I love how you say "Players can't resurrect and rejoin the fight" and then go on to list a bunch of ways players can resurrect and rejoin the fight. LOL!

Well, yes. That was my point. Also, I wasn't sure from your statement if you understood how resurrection works in PVP, so if that was a lecture you didn't need, I'm sorry.

Every single way that players can resurrect and join the fight is not instantaneous. It requires a delay in getting back to the fight or requires other players to assist them in getting back to the fight. These are all eminently reasonable methods of penalizing players for dying without excluding them from the fight. This is PVP, not "you died, ride all the way back from your gates". In PVE, players who die in boss fights can be resurrected to help the team. If I extend your argument to PVE, players who die are dead and can't help the team anymore.

I mean, you are talking about "realistically" players not resurrecting and rejoining the fight when I can hit a soul gem in overland PVE and resurrect right there over my dead body. It doesn't work like that in PVP, reasonably. To my thinking, hitting a soul gem and resurrecting myself in PVP would be truly broken, hence why ZOS didn't allow that.

So, if you have a problem with the methods of resurrection in PVP, let's figure that out.
What are your suggestions that benefit everyone from solo players to 24-man raids?
How do you keep the interest of players who died in a fight and want to rejoin said fight?

Girl_Number8

I think zergs are pvp large scale, and that there is nothing really wrong with it. I never really understood the saltiness of this topic.

I think if you want that close, and cuddly loving feeling, it's the new and improved BG's for you. Ummmm if you can get in, lol.

Well time for for me to clam slam someone for running the tea bag society over me.
See all is good xD

Bam_Bam

Zerg vs Zerg is fun. Maybe not so much when you die but for that 20-30 minutes where it pretty even, they are some of the best moments I've had in the game.

Zerg vs 1/2 - if the 2 are caught in the field by accdent and they get stomped, its harsh but its Cyrodiil. HOWEVER if the 2AD think they are 'all that' and decide to camp out at Arrius lumber and farm scrubs, don't be surprised if the zerg comes there purposely to get rid of them.

1 vs 1/2/3/4/5/X/Zerg - you're on your own, and best of luck to you , you big balled person (but don't cry if you die lots)

Sevn

I love zerg vs zerg, so much chaos! Never understood why some folks don't seem to understand that cyrodiil is, in fact, designed and was advertised for large scale warfare. Why the unnecessary push to fix what isn't broken?

You want small scale? Battlegrounds are designed for just that. Enjoy.

Girl_Number8

Baranthus wrote: »

Zerg vs Zerg is fun. Maybe not so much when you die but for that 20-30 minutes where it pretty even, they are some of the best moments I've had in the game.

Zerg vs 1/2 - if the 2 are caught in the field by accdent and they get stomped, its harsh but its Cyrodiil. HOWEVER if the 2AD think they are 'all that' and decide to camp out at Arrius lumber and farm scrubs, don't be surprised if the zerg comes there purposely to get rid of them.

1 vs 1/2/3/4/5/X/Zerg - you're on your own, and best of luck to you , you big balled person (but don't cry if you die lots)

See he gets it

Girl_Number8

Sevn wrote: »

I love zerg vs zerg, so much chaos! Never understood why some folks don't seem to understand that cyrodiil is, in fact, designed and was advertised for large scale warfare. Why the unnecessary push to fix what isn't broken?

You want small scale? Battlegrounds are designed for just that. Enjoy.

I support this post, mwah!

Bhaal5

Sevn wrote: »

I love zerg vs zerg, so much chaos! Never understood why some folks don't seem to understand that cyrodiil is, in fact, designed and was advertised for large scale warfare. Why the unnecessary push to fix what isn't broken?

You want small scale? Battlegrounds are designed for just that. Enjoy.

One does not simply
Understands a troll

Zergs are a intended part of pvp, but people still have the skyrim mind set and loves playing solo and hate social interactions??