Mist Form...

mb10

Mist form needs the some sort of cooldown or the same effect as steak where the cost increases if it's used in quick succession.

A bit ridiculous how players can use 10 mist forms in a row...

Hippie4927

NOOOOOOO!! It's what I use to get away from the guards!

Lieblingsjunge

If they use 10 mist forms in a row, then they're definitely out of Magicka. You don't get any magicka back in mist form. So let them mist form all they want, all you have to do is to wait for them to be out of magicka.

I could agree that Mist Form would need a change - if the classes without an escape gets another skill that gives them some sort of escape/counter to snares. Otherwise you're just dooming two classes to death(magplar & magdk, if it's not obvious already). (Probs even worse for mDK, as they don't even have purify in their kit).

Edit. Oh, and you can still be snared in mist form. 'Cus reasons.

lynog85

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

If they use 10 mist forms in a row, then they're definitely out of Magicka. You don't get any magicka back in mist form. So let them mist form all they want, all you have to do is to wait for them to be out of magicka.

I could agree that Mist Form would need a change - if the classes without an escape gets another skill that gives them some sort of escape/counter to snares. Otherwise you're just dooming two classes to death(magplar & magdk, if it's not obvious already). (Probs even worse for mDK, as they don't even have purify in their kit).

Edit. Oh, and you can still be snared in mist form. 'Cus reasons.

If you have your rune down as a temp. You still get the magicka back from that.

mb10

@Lieblingsjunge

Yep just switch bars and proc Lich set and buy a second or two around a tree or rock and you can really mist form forever

Firstmep

Mist already disables all healing and also mag recovery, not to mention that your not doing anything in Mist form. This is like asking for streak to get additional nerf, which it doesnt need.
Yes magplar can regen magicka a few was while is Mist and dks can use battleroar out of Mist but the skill is still very taxing on your mag pool. If i see someone Misting in pvp ill heavy attack them for free resources, while they sacrafice resources for staying in Mist.
As liieb sad templars and dks dont get an escape ability in their class toolkit and Mist has a big enough tradeoff already. Also id gladly give up mistform for streak any day.

Aedaryl

Mist form isn't that ressource drain.

You can still have your constitution passive procing and have some set like desert rose procing.

ToRelax

Outside of secondary resource returns, Mist Form comes with very harsh penalties for a potentially massive benefit. But factoring in things like Consitution, Channeled Focus and Harness Magicka, a large part of the penalties can be circumvented. Therefore, if a nerf is warranted in the first place, it would be on the interaction of these with Mistform, namely disabling/reducing them just like standard magicka regen.

danno8

Aedaryl wrote: »

Mist form isn't that ressource drain.

You can still have your constitution passive procing and have some set like desert rose procing.

Pretty niche case your talking about here.

Even in your cited case, the Mist Form user is still losing resources and doing no damage.

The only part of Mist Form that I think is a bit too strong is the 75% damage reduction. Combined with the vampire passive when near death the damage reduction while low on health is a bit too much. I would reduce the DR to 50% if I had my way.

pieratsos

Firstmep wrote: »

Mist already disables all healing and also mag recovery, not to mention that your not doing anything in Mist form. This is like asking for streak to get additional nerf, which it doesnt need.
Yes magplar can regen magicka a few was while is Mist and dks can use battleroar out of Mist but the skill is still very taxing on your mag pool. If i see someone Misting in pvp ill heavy attack them for free resources, while they sacrafice resources for staying in Mist.
As liieb sad templars and dks dont get an escape ability in their class toolkit and Mist has a big enough tradeoff already. Also id gladly give up mistform for streak any day.

You do realise that the reason why DKs and templars dont have escape tools is because they are built around survivability and not mobility right?

Joy_Division

pieratsos wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Mist already disables all healing and also mag recovery, not to mention that your not doing anything in Mist form. This is like asking for streak to get additional nerf, which it doesnt need.
Yes magplar can regen magicka a few was while is Mist and dks can use battleroar out of Mist but the skill is still very taxing on your mag pool. If i see someone Misting in pvp ill heavy attack them for free resources, while they sacrafice resources for staying in Mist.
As liieb sad templars and dks dont get an escape ability in their class toolkit and Mist has a big enough tradeoff already. Also id gladly give up mistform for streak any day.

You do realise that the reason why DKs and templars dont have escape tools is because they are built around survivability and not mobility right?

So the theory goes.

Temps and DKs who try and use that suriviability lose damage (unlike sorcs and NBs) and get hate tells for being cancerous trolls

pieratsos

Joy_Division wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Mist already disables all healing and also mag recovery, not to mention that your not doing anything in Mist form. This is like asking for streak to get additional nerf, which it doesnt need.
Yes magplar can regen magicka a few was while is Mist and dks can use battleroar out of Mist but the skill is still very taxing on your mag pool. If i see someone Misting in pvp ill heavy attack them for free resources, while they sacrafice resources for staying in Mist.
As liieb sad templars and dks dont get an escape ability in their class toolkit and Mist has a big enough tradeoff already. Also id gladly give up mistform for streak any day.

You do realise that the reason why DKs and templars dont have escape tools is because they are built around survivability and not mobility right?

So the theory goes.

Temps and DKs who try and use that suriviability lose damage (unlike sorcs and NBs) and get hate tells for being cancerous trolls

Yeah no one hates sorcs. Absolutely no one. But sure lets give streak to templar and DK. Makes sense.

Crusades

I disagree with a nerf call for mist. I'd actually like to see the speed increased and for the immunity to snares to actually work all the time while in most form.

Mist needs to be fixed and work as intended before any kind of nerf needs to be looked at.

ak_pvp

Mistake needs a massive rework. I enjoy losing resources on a hard to sustain class and then being snared into a potato by gap closers. It does nothing but delay death so I never run it.

Reduce damage resist to 50%, half regen/healing, not disable it as it leaves you in a vegitive state with no casts and grant immunity to all snares, gapclosers included for duration+2s.

It already has too much sustain problems,is slower than running, even more so with gapcloser snare, it also has a small open window before recast, can't stay in it permanently and you want it nerfed?

Sanctum74

So let's see it's an expensive skill which prevents the use of any other skills, they can't heal themselves, put out damage, and also lose regen. Not to mention the skill does not always activate and many times the major expedition buff doesn't work, but yea it's totally op and needs to be nerfed immediately! Lol no heavy sarcasm here.

Chilly-McFreeze

danno8 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Mist form isn't that ressource drain.

You can still have your constitution passive procing and have some set like desert rose procing.

Pretty niche case your talking about here.

Even in your cited case, the Mist Form user is still losing resources and doing no damage.

The only part of Mist Form that I think is a bit too strong is the 75% damage reduction. Combined with the vampire passive when near death the damage reduction while low on health is a bit too much. I would reduce the DR to 50% if I had my way.

So that you would negate more damage by simply blocking without shutting healing and all your active skills and mag regen down?

Airyus

Really? Just really? Just when I thought mag dk's couldn't be gutted any more... one of these posts show up. Nerf vamp nerf mist form. I hate everyone.

lucky_Sage

Firstmep wrote: »

Mist already disables all healing and also mag recovery, not to mention that your not doing anything in Mist form. This is like asking for streak to get additional nerf, which it doesnt need.
Yes magplar can regen magicka a few was while is Mist and dks can use battleroar out of Mist but the skill is still very taxing on your mag pool. If i see someone Misting in pvp ill heavy attack them for free resources, while they sacrafice resources for staying in Mist.
As liieb sad templars and dks dont get an escape ability in their class toolkit and Mist has a big enough tradeoff already. Also id gladly give up mistform for streak any day.

give my magdk a streak id be happy

Vynn

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Mist already disables all healing and also mag recovery, not to mention that your not doing anything in Mist form. This is like asking for streak to get additional nerf, which it doesnt need.
Yes magplar can regen magicka a few was while is Mist and dks can use battleroar out of Mist but the skill is still very taxing on your mag pool. If i see someone Misting in pvp ill heavy attack them for free resources, while they sacrafice resources for staying in Mist.
As liieb sad templars and dks dont get an escape ability in their class toolkit and Mist has a big enough tradeoff already. Also id gladly give up mistform for streak any day.

give my magdk a streak id be happy

Too OP. DK should still have less mobility than Sorc. Instead, dk wings should remove snares and grant minor expedition (after removing the OP damage increase). This allows counterplay while keeping classes in their niche without going overboard.

Gan Xing

Airyus wrote: »

Really? Just really? Just when I thought mag dk's couldn't be gutted any more... one of these posts show up. Nerf vamp nerf mist form. I hate everyone.

It is one person... the majority of the replies are in opposition b/c mist doesn't give back resources, you can't fight while in it, and you still get snared (even though you aren't supposed to)

Baconlad

Mist form is not a get out of jain free card rofl. It a skill that allows magplars and magdks to line of sight and string out enemies. If your spamming mist form, youll die, the resource kill is horrendous on it. Also you can regen magic through mist, but lets think about that. It gives 120 per second...thats *** stupid. So over 4 seconds of mist form im negating 480 cost to mist form...wait it gets better, 900 cost for channeled focus. In order to get the cost back for one channeled focus, you need to mist form twice and wait 8 seconds. Its miserable. You cast channeled fosuc and immediatly go into mist form, after one mist form you have spent more magic than you would have if you just casted mist form. Its *** to say that as if its a benefit.

Great lets now talk about that magplar/ magdk supposed survivability.

Have you ever fought a magplar or magdk that has specced max damage? As in three damage sets, trying to only mitigate danage through skills? Its bad...the damage is on par with magsorc/magblade/magden or ANY stamina toon. But they are effectively canon foder. Even with "supposedly op mist form". They drop like a sack of potatoes from a 50 story building: **PLOP**.

Their defense is horrid compared to the other three classes. The biggest reason, is shield are awesome, and magplar/ magdk dont really get that great use out of them. I mean sure we can use them, which would be better than honor the dead for survival, but without the tools the other classes get they are weak.

Sorc gets three shields, plus magic increase passives and skills that give extra magic, as well as a limited potential for necropotence (although they have to be petsorc...which is an odd playstyle and kinda lower damage)

Nighblades are in the same boat as magplar/magdk but they get an amazing set of escapes skills. Cloak, magic version of shuffle, and the stupid teleport pet. Making the nightblade very elusive and bursty from stealth

Wardens are the kings of max magic and get optimal use of annulment, with their awesome heals make for a toon with almost as much shield as a magsorc but with much more reliable and on demand healing. Not to mention the best uptime on minor protection, thats not tied into an opposing morph for magic return, allowing them less built in magic regen.

Magplar has honor the dead, which in itself is the most desireable on demand heal available. But in order to make optimal use of the heal, we need to make sure we mitigate as much damage as possible. Not doing that in three damage sets are you? No...no you are not, we do use mistform in order to get around a tree and heal up, slap down our defenseive rune and that WEAK ASS HOT THAT IS PURGE (albeit a great skill...but once again we have to be taking damage to use it, otherwise its wasted magic).

Magdks are about the same as magplar in playstlye, apply dots then spam the spammable skill. Less reliable self heals than magplar, no purge, and rediculous way to get major mending (diffucult to use) magdk and magplar also need to make use of more stamina, due to needing to block more for mitigation to make better use of our heals. Its why many magdk use shield on mainbar...cause their defense is accually really horrible.

Slap on a defensive set or two, or heavy armor and we can now passively mitigate damage as to allow us to DPS more...but our DPS is now reletively wraker than any other class due to not being able to run the damage sets.

Dont get me wrong, i jnow better than most pvpers how to build a proper magplar. My passive mitigation is on point, but ill never be able to kill a properly built and played magsorc or magblade or magden...its not going to happen. Even though he may kill me. If i try to drop just a SLIGHT amount of defebse for damage...i still am at a damage dissadvantage and now at MUCH more of a defense dissadvantage than i was.

Mist form is the one ability that allows us to reset a fight. And even then you cant use it in a duel as you dont LOS in duels...wasted slot. I have two builds i swap between in cyrodil. One is for massive magic damage, the other is for sustained damage and nice passive mitigation.

My max damage setup feels like complete and utter *** when i come across any competant player, i mean sure if i catch him off guard i can pump into him 30k damage in two seconds, but if he cloaks, bubbles, or absorbs and turns on my toon im dead. Theres no amount of mist forming around trees that will save me. I cant imagine tryin to take the build into a sweep spam bar setup, id get wrecked by any other player before my second sweeps could hit. If i want to survive anything i swap to two defense sets at a VERY large hit to my damage.

My point is, zenimax has magic templar and magic DK at severe passive mitigation dissadvantages. Other classes have to so friggin easy. Mist form is NOT that great...id take cloak, streak, or ice fortress and massive magic pools anyday...over mistform and my two defense sets...

Qwazzy

What I'd like to see. Change one morph of Necrotic Orb which allows you to teleport to the orb upon reactivating the skill within its 10 second duration. Similar to a night blades shade, mobility is so important in PvP we need more options!

danno8

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Mist form isn't that ressource drain.

You can still have your constitution passive procing and have some set like desert rose procing.

Pretty niche case your talking about here.

Even in your cited case, the Mist Form user is still losing resources and doing no damage.

The only part of Mist Form that I think is a bit too strong is the 75% damage reduction. Combined with the vampire passive when near death the damage reduction while low on health is a bit too much. I would reduce the DR to 50% if I had my way.

So that you would negate more damage by simply blocking without shutting healing and all your active skills and mag regen down?

Your preaching to the choir here, but I'll point out that blocking slows you, not speeds you up, does not make you immune to snares or immobilizations (bugs aside, and gap closers aside), and shuts down your stamina regeneration.

I don't think its even a fair comparison.

Banana

PVP has ruined enough things lately

Chilly-McFreeze

danno8 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Mist form isn't that ressource drain.

You can still have your constitution passive procing and have some set like desert rose procing.

Pretty niche case your talking about here.

Even in your cited case, the Mist Form user is still losing resources and doing no damage.

The only part of Mist Form that I think is a bit too strong is the 75% damage reduction. Combined with the vampire passive when near death the damage reduction while low on health is a bit too much. I would reduce the DR to 50% if I had my way.

So that you would negate more damage by simply blocking without shutting healing and all your active skills and mag regen down?

Your preaching to the choir here, but I'll point out that blocking slows you, not speeds you up, does not make you immune to snares or immobilizations (bugs aside, and gap closers aside), and shuts down your stamina regeneration.

I don't think its even a fair comparison.

So make everything same same?

Being able to heal and deal damage vs snare "immunity" and mE without sprint seems fair to me.

Not to mention that you can use both. It's not like choosing either/or on your bars, right?

dodgehopper_ESO

Hippie4927 wrote: »

NOOOOOOO!! It's what I use to get away from the guards!

Try dodge roll, corners, sprint, evasion/blur, etc etc etc.

Hippie4927

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

NOOOOOOO!! It's what I use to get away from the guards!

Try dodge roll, corners, sprint, evasion/blur, etc etc etc.

I'm a magplar and I don't have enough stamina for dodge rolling and sprinting. Templars don't have any magicka skills for speedy get-aways so mist form it is. Works every time for me.

Savos_Saren

Technically speaking- you can't increase you speed while in mist form. You're limited to ONLY the speed of mist form. Unlike any other ability that uses major expedition. For instance- a Sorc can cast Boundless Storm- gain major expedition AND sprint on top of that. While sprinting- he gain regen his magicka. (even moreso if he has the CP passives) Furthermore, he can stop and use abilities.

However, in mist form you lose magicka regen, can't heal, can't use weapons/abilities, and you're limited in speed. On top of that- magplars and magDKs have to accept the debuffs associated with being a vampire. More fire damage, significantly less health regen, susceptibility to prismatic enchants, and a stupid looking character.

So, no. Don't nerf mist form. Buff it or give magPlars and magDKs a more reliable source of speed.

Edit: I can't believe I mistyped "you're" vs "your".

TheDoomsdayMonster

Baconlad wrote: »

Mist form is not a get out of jain free card rofl. It a skill that allows magplars and magdks to line of sight and string out enemies. If your spamming mist form, youll die, the resource kill is horrendous on it. Also you can regen magic through mist, but lets think about that. It gives 120 per second...thats *** stupid. So over 4 seconds of mist form im negating 480 cost to mist form...wait it gets better, 900 cost for channeled focus. In order to get the cost back for one channeled focus, you need to mist form twice and wait 8 seconds. Its miserable. You cast channeled fosuc and immediatly go into mist form, after one mist form you have spent more magic than you would have if you just casted mist form. Its *** to say that as if its a benefit.

Great lets now talk about that magplar/ magdk supposed survivability.

Have you ever fought a magplar or magdk that has specced max damage? As in three damage sets, trying to only mitigate danage through skills? Its bad...the damage is on par with magsorc/magblade/magden or ANY stamina toon. But they are effectively canon foder. Even with "supposedly op mist form". They drop like a sack of potatoes from a 50 story building: **PLOP**.

Their defense is horrid compared to the other three classes. The biggest reason, is shield are awesome, and magplar/ magdk dont really get that great use out of them. I mean sure we can use them, which would be better than honor the dead for survival, but without the tools the other classes get they are weak.

Sorc gets three shields, plus magic increase passives and skills that give extra magic, as well as a limited potential for necropotence (although they have to be petsorc...which is an odd playstyle and kinda lower damage)

Nighblades are in the same boat as magplar/magdk but they get an amazing set of escapes skills. Cloak, magic version of shuffle, and the stupid teleport pet. Making the nightblade very elusive and bursty from stealth

Wardens are the kings of max magic and get optimal use of annulment, with their awesome heals make for a toon with almost as much shield as a magsorc but with much more reliable and on demand healing. Not to mention the best uptime on minor protection, thats not tied into an opposing morph for magic return, allowing them less built in magic regen.

Magplar has honor the dead, which in itself is the most desireable on demand heal available. But in order to make optimal use of the heal, we need to make sure we mitigate as much damage as possible. Not doing that in three damage sets are you? No...no you are not, we do use mistform in order to get around a tree and heal up, slap down our defenseive rune and that WEAK ASS HOT THAT IS PURGE (albeit a great skill...but once again we have to be taking damage to use it, otherwise its wasted magic).

Magdks are about the same as magplar in playstlye, apply dots then spam the spammable skill. Less reliable self heals than magplar, no purge, and rediculous way to get major mending (diffucult to use) magdk and magplar also need to make use of more stamina, due to needing to block more for mitigation to make better use of our heals. Its why many magdk use shield on mainbar...cause their defense is accually really horrible.

Slap on a defensive set or two, or heavy armor and we can now passively mitigate damage as to allow us to DPS more...but our DPS is now reletively wraker than any other class due to not being able to run the damage sets.

Dont get me wrong, i jnow better than most pvpers how to build a proper magplar. My passive mitigation is on point, but ill never be able to kill a properly built and played magsorc or magblade or magden...its not going to happen. Even though he may kill me. If i try to drop just a SLIGHT amount of defebse for damage...i still am at a damage dissadvantage and now at MUCH more of a defense dissadvantage than i was.

Mist form is the one ability that allows us to reset a fight. And even then you cant use it in a duel as you dont LOS in duels...wasted slot. I have two builds i swap between in cyrodil. One is for massive magic damage, the other is for sustained damage and nice passive mitigation.

My max damage setup feels like complete and utter *** when i come across any competant player, i mean sure if i catch him off guard i can pump into him 30k damage in two seconds, but if he cloaks, bubbles, or absorbs and turns on my toon im dead. Theres no amount of mist forming around trees that will save me. I cant imagine tryin to take the build into a sweep spam bar setup, id get wrecked by any other player before my second sweeps could hit. If i want to survive anything i swap to two defense sets at a VERY large hit to my damage.

My point is, zenimax has magic templar and magic DK at severe passive mitigation dissadvantages. Other classes have to so friggin easy. Mist form is NOT that great...id take cloak, streak, or ice fortress and massive magic pools anyday...over mistform and my two defense sets...

Well said!!

100% agree with every single thing you said...

I play a Magplar as well, and same as you, I have found my optimal setup to be one with 2 Defensive Sets and 1 Offensive...

Every build I've tried with 2 or 3 Offensive sets has ultimately proven itself to be suboptimal and just too d@m squishy; same as you, its great when you catch someone off guard and can pump them full of damage, but if they survive your alpha attack and fight back, you die...period.

Elusive Mist is the only thing we can access that can even remotely get us out of trouble; if that is tampered with we all would have no other option but to turn into Heavy Armor wearing, block-casting, Healbots (and that's something I absolutely refuse to do)...

TheDoomsdayMonster

jaburns wrote: »

Technically speaking- you can't increase you speed while in mist form. You're limited to ONLY the speed of mist form. Unlike any other ability that uses major expedition. For instance- a Sorc can cast Boundless Storm- gain major expedition AND sprint on top of that. While sprinting- he gain regen his magicka. (even moreso if he has the CP passives) Furthermore, he can stop and use abilities.

However, in mist form you lose magicka regen, can't heal, can't use weapons/abilities, and you're limited in speed. On top of that- magplars and magDKs have to accept the debuffs associated with being a vampire. More fire damage, significantly less health regen, susceptibility to prismatic enchants, and a stupid looking character.

So, no. Don't nerf mist form. Buff it or give magPlars and magDKs a more reliable source of speed.

Edit: I can't believe I mistyped "you're" vs "your".

I agree with the spirit of your post (which is not to nerf Mist Form), but I do think you can increase your speed while using Elusive Mist...

I haven't tested it extensively, but it did appear to me that the Minor Expedition gained by using Accelerating Drain does stack with the Major Expedition gained by Elusive Mist...

Like I said, I haven't tested it enough to say that the above is definitely true (I like Invigorating Drain more than Accelerating Drain), but it did appear that way to me one day when doing a little experimenting...

Just my 2 cents...

IxSTALKERxI

Mist form is fine as is. Anyone who uses the skill knows this.